12 ms·

Apple Maps' Acceleration (2020)

153 points by chenglou 5y ago

alushta 5y ago
Now if Apple Maps can only add a "north-up" option while navigating, instead of turning the map when I turn, causing me to lose all orientation!
gordon_freeman 5y ago
I recently started using Apple Maps in my car using CarPlay and just pleasantly surprised with some nice features as showing STOP and SIGNAL signs on the map so I know when to stop way beforehand in my mind rather than straining my eyes to look for those signs when I get closer to them. Makes a huge difference when you are tired and can not focus 100% when driving.
alberth 5y ago
Google = data company Apple = design company, who's getting better at being a data company As an aside, I really love reading these yearly posts from Justin. I always drop what I'm doing when I see one of these posts from him.
lnanek2 5y ago
Even if Apple Maps doesn't have as much data as Google, the experience is so much better. Makes a lot of sense that Google is copying it as per the article. Whenever I use Google Maps, it constantly harasses me about how there's a slowdown ahead, puts a little tray across the bottom of the screen hiding the information I care about, with no way to get rid of it except tapping and other nonsense. I searched throughout the settings and can't find anyway to turn off all these annoying pop ups it has. Someone needs to write an ad blocker for it. Apple Maps not only doesn't constantly harass me with meaningless notifications I can't dismiss without taking my hands off the wheel, it also shows traffic lights, and the voice over instructions include them as well. With Google I often turn too early or too late because it isn't very clear exactly when to turn. With Apple Maps that happens a lot less because Siri will flat out tell you, turn at this light, turn at the next light, etc..
- Rebelgecko 5y ago
  Those popups autodismiss after something like 5-10 seconds
- mthoms 5y ago
  I've identified so many traffic lights for Google (via reCaptcha). Probably hundreds. I'm surprised they haven't integrated that info into maps yet. The free labor I've provided them is probably enough to cover an entire neighbourhood already :)
websap 5y ago
I've been recently trying out the new Apple maps' turn by turn navigation. Some of the directions are almost human like - "Take a left at next traffic light" Must say makes driving directions easier to follow compared to take a left on X street, when I can't even see what X street is at night.
- mattlondon 5y ago
  Doesn't Google maps do this too? At least in the UK I can hear "at the roundabout, take the Xth exit" echoing in my head right now. Can't remember about traffic lights. It does mention road names though which is kinda silly... If I knew the roads well enough to know what they are called I'd not need directions!
  - websap 5y ago
    Definitely doesn't do it for traffic lights in the US.
  - Rebelgecko 5y ago
    Google Maps also uses landmarks, eg "turn right after the GameStop". AFAIK those aren't sponsored
    - websap 5y ago
      Problem is that when I'm driving I'm not paying attention to businesses around me. I've gotten a direction once like take left at Starbucks, how far is the starbucks away, is it the next left or the one after that? Now I need to glance for a Starbucks while I'm driving?
- LindyTalker 5y ago
  I have noticed this as well. Much easier too when it's saying which lane to be in when you're exiting a highway
  - jiveturkey 5y ago
TedShiller 5y ago
To compete, Apple Maps will also need to have a fully accessible web version
- sixstringtheory 5y ago
  Why is that? As far as I can imagine, people using Apple maps, especially those requiring accessibility features, will be using the app on their phone.
  - mattlondon 5y ago
    It is embedded in various places on the web - e.g. duckduckgo uses it. You don't get a choice if the website owner forces it on you
- McElodeon 5y ago
  DuckDuckGo's maps are powered by Apple Maps, so technically they do.
  - TedShiller 5y ago
    that's cool, i had no idea
tylerrobinson 5y ago
Every time I've tried Apple Maps, I run into the same problem--it doesn't seem to predict your realtime location ahead by X feet to account for your speed and delay in GPS signal. Google Maps does this. The result is that on Apple Maps, your position is "behind" where you really are at the moment, and it's harder to make the turn. Google's tradeoff is that if you miss a turn, it will momentarily show your position as if you'd made the turn correctly. Perhaps this is a matter of preference, but I am much more successful at navigating while driving using Google Maps than with Apple Maps.
- fomine3 5y ago
  Possibly only Android Auto receives vehicle speed signal from a car? https://developer.android.com/reference/android/car/VehiclePropertyIds https://developer.android.com/reference/android/car/VehicleP...
  - tylerrobinson 5y ago
    I have never used Android or iOS car integrations. I am speaking from using GPS while driving, so I meant the app’s ability to calculate your speed based on GPS.
- uptown 5y ago
  I've noticed the same thing. I do use Apple Maps in Carplay, but have learned to anticipate what's shown on-screen in-relation to where I'm actually located. Seems like it's certainly fixable, but I'm surprised it hasn't been addressed already given that two random strangers on the internet highlight that as one of the service's primary weaknesses.
  - bezossucks 5y ago
    Has Apple ever factored user feedback into its designs? They seem pretty dictatorial in how they approach UX.. "Apple knows best, user will adjust." <-- typing this from a Mac, while learning how to use iPad's opaque gestures...
OsmanBella 5y ago
I bring you all reading this short story of mine a special greetings and letter of advice so you don't end up being scammed, I'm Augustine Eli from Illinois, I invested with a broker trade site where I ended up paying more just to withdraw my profit of which I paid capital for. After paying 5 times fee I noticed it is all fraud and these scammers never give up until one has to stop by itself. I lose $201,391.04 US dollars to this bitcoin trade broker's scam. after I noticed I was being used, I ended up searching for a recovery agent hacker, I came across two different recovery scammer entirely who knows very much on how to make you believe that they are capable of what they are doing not knowing that it was a total fraud. to make it shot I was finally referred to youngwizardjacksonrecovery AT YAHOO dot COM by a friend and I wrote to him and then explained everything to him, he responded fast and i decided to work with him, in less than 72 hours i received my lose funds. All thanks to youngwizardjacksonrecovery AT YAHOO DOT COM who gave me back my life again.whatsapp young wizard jack (+1) (807)/ 234..0335;
throwawaysea 5y ago
This article is from last year but the latest iOS 15 updates show how mature Apple maps has become (see https://www.macrumors.com/guide/ios-15-maps/ https://www.macrumors.com/guide/ios-15-maps/). It’s not just at parity but actually better than Google maps. It has beautiful rendering and easy readability, and I haven’t encountered odd routing issues for a couple years now. The added privacy is a welcome bonus. The only thing missing is a way to report police presence like on Waze. I’ve been impressed by Apple’s pace and wish there was more I could read about their engineering and product journey for the maps product.
- bori5 5y ago
  “Easy readability” on this point I find myself wishing there was a way to make street names and fonts in general bigger in Apple Maps. Also green font on green backgrounds, why ? In terms of planning there is still no way to add multiple routes along the way which would be a nice addition.
  - Someone 5y ago
    _If_ you can live with having larger text in other apps, too, you can do that in the accessibility settings.
    - bori5 5y ago
      That helps at the expense of everything else now borked, but I wonder what is so hard about having a per app font setting ?
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    A lot of Apple products have bad font issues, and Apple Maps is among the worst. There's simply no way anyone at Apple has checked contrast or font size for accessibility in Apple Maps. Once the road labels were so frustratingly small that I took a screenshot and opened it in Photoshop just to see how small it was. One label was 4px. Another was 6px. How is anyone supposed to read a six pixel tall word? Here's an example of Apple Maps using a FIVE PIXEL TALL font: https://twitter.com/Reaperducer/status/1277319668194148352 https://twitter.com/Reaperducer/status/1277319668194148352 Seriously?
sandgiant 5y ago
> Perhaps the most noticeable difference between Apple’s old and new maps is all of the vegetation detail Apple has added. I really don't understand the way they blend forests and fields together. It used to be that forests and grasslands were marked green and agricultural land was white, so you could easily tell the difference. Now they are the same, or nearly the same, color while the difference in landscape is massive. To actually tell the difference now you have to switch to the satellite map. I don't see how this is adding more detail. If anything it's providing less information.
- asutekku 5y ago
  It makes it prettier since a fields in the aerial view are not aesthetically very pleasing.
echelon 5y ago
I still don't get it. Apple is a company people cheer for, yet it continues to accrue substantial and dangerous power. They don't let you repair devices, install your own software, or run your business unfettered. They spy on your files. They coddle and report to authoritarian governments. This monopoly is lauded and praised as it continues to get bigger and encompass everything one does. I don't understand it. It hurts to watch this.
- dev_tty01 5y ago
  First, I don't think your comment is relevant to this discussion, but I guess that has never stopped anyone on HN. People complain about Apple maps, and the article is about how much work Apple is doing to improve their maps. As to many of your other points, they are just wrong. I do repair my own devices, I do install my own software and I do run my business unfettered. I can't speak for others, but your assertion is not consistent with my own experience. Which files do they "spy" on? They do offer on-device services like automatic photo tagging, rule based email filtering, etc. I can use those or not. I can grep and search my files, so I guess Apple (the OS) is "looking" at my files. Is that different than any OS? Basically any OS vendor has access to your files. You either trust it or you don't. Apple's business model is not built on selling my data to advertisers so I choose to trust them. You are welcome to make another choice. As far as coddling to authoritarian governments, yes they follow the laws of the countries they operate in. So do any other companies that operate in those countries. That stinks, but that is the reality. Companies can either abandon markets or follow local laws. Which of these is the long term good? Lots of valid arguments both ways, but there can be no argument on one point. Operating in country X requires following the laws of country X. Look, they are no saints, I get that. But they build great devices that do everything I want them to do. Of course there are people that have bad experiences, but overall Apple's customer satisfaction numbers are extremely high and people keep buying their devices. That's not an opinion. To your central point, yes, as Apple offers more services that I find useful they do accrue more power. Which large companies that offer useful services do not accrue associated power? I choose to align with the company whose business model is not built upon selling me and my data to third parties. Eyes wide open. There are other good choices and I am happy for other people to make different choices. I don't feel pain for them.
dchest 5y ago
Meanwhile, in other parts of the world it cannot even get the shape of land and country borders right. Here's an example on the border of Montenegro and Albania: https://imgur.com/a/B3aVJYH https://imgur.com/a/B3aVJYH
- mtmail 5y ago
  You can report data issues at https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/149 https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/149 (Montenegro) https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/148 https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/148 (Albania)
  - dchest 5y ago
    Is this for Apple's data collaboration with OpenStreetMaps? I don't get it — both countries seem have very good coverage in OSM, but not in Apple Maps.
- littlestymaar 5y ago
  Google Maps is better[1] but none of them come even remotely close of Open Street Maps[2] [1]: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.858832,19.3550722,13.71z https://www.google.com/maps/@41.858832,19.3550722,13.71z [2]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/728419973#map=13/41.8835/19.4111 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/728419973#map=13/41.8835/...
  - eliaspro 5y ago
    Geofabrik provides MapCompare for this... The differences between OSM and the rest are staggering! https://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/#14/41.8650/19.3868&num=4&mt0=mapnik&mt1=google-map&mt2=here-hybrid&mt3=here-map https://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/#14/41.8650/19.3868&num=4&mt0=...
    - zimpenfish 5y ago
      Currently showing a "this page cannot load Google Maps correctly". I guess they ran out of free views? (But also underscoring quite effectively the other people saying "I won't build on Google Maps")
asymmetric 5y ago
From 2020.
littlestymaar 5y ago
I still don't understand why Apple map is so bad compared to OpenStreetMap given that they contribute a lot to it (they are even the biggest company contributor to OSM). There must be a reason, legal or something, but why don't they just use OSM as a default for places they didn't map by themselves? [1]: https://www.gislounge.com/openstreetmap-one-of-the-worlds-largest-collaborative-geospatial-projects/ https://www.gislounge.com/openstreetmap-one-of-the-worlds-la...
- webmobdev 5y ago
  I think it might be because Apple will have to give visible attribution to OpenStreetMaps, which may attract users towards it to the detriment of Apple maps.
  - mikestew 5y ago
    When I go to choose which map type I'd like in Apple Maps, right there at the bottom, just below TomTom's logo: "© OpenStreetMap and other data providers"
  - littlestymaar 5y ago
    But why do they contribute then?!
    - webmobdev 5y ago
      They do use OpenStreetMaps data and give attribution to them as one of their sources. But if they were to only use OSM's data, people would cry foul that Apple maps is not giving them clear and visible attribution (for e.g. by adding a "OpenStreetMap" label on the map you are viewing in Apple Maps). Right now, except for maps source providers that legally require Apple to provide visible attribution somewhere in their UI, all attributions are tucked away somewhere in the internet - https://gspe21-ssl.ls.apple.com/html/attribution-199.html https://gspe21-ssl.ls.apple.com/html/attribution-199.html
      - kyralis 5y ago
mulmen 5y ago
I’m on the big island of Hawaii and Apple Maps is basically useless. I can’t find my hostel by name. I also can’t find it by address. It’s just very bad.
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  Do you think street names and place names being in Hawaiian might have anything to do with this?
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Hopefully not, I was under the impression that my iPhone respected diversity and inclusion!
  - mulmen 5y ago
    I think it has more to do with a lack of competence on the part of the maps team. Place names are just strings.
- barkerja 5y ago
  This is actually somewhat surprising given that Hawaii was one of the first states to get surveyed directly by Apple. Is it a recent address? And have you tried reporting it? My personal experience is Apple is pretty responsive to (all) Maps reports.
ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
I’m using Apple Maps for the app that I’m developing now. The alternative would not have been Google Maps. It would have been MapBox. Google Maps will give app developers like me severe sticker shock. I watched a friend of mine get it in the shorts (forcing him to switch to MapBox). After watching that, I decided that I will never depend on Google services as a linchpin technology. In fact, it simply hardened my resolve to avoid third-party dependence, wherever possible. When I started the project I’m working on now, Apple Maps had already grown to cover all of the US, albeit not as well as Google Maps. I’ve been seeing Apple Maps cars driving around here, for at least a couple of years. I’m pretty confident that relying on Apple Maps was not a mistake.
- magicalist 5y ago
  > I’m using Apple Maps for the app that I’m developing now. The alternative would not have been Google Maps. It would have been MapBox. It's easy to make a theoretical stance like this, but Apple Maps and Google Maps are free in an iOS app, but MapBox is not. If you were forced to switch off Apple Maps for some reason, it seems likely the free option would win out. > it simply hardened my resolve to avoid third-party dependence, wherever possible all of these libraries are third-party dependencies... > Google Maps will give app developers like me severe sticker shock If we're talking just about the javascript API, in my experience if you're using more than just a very local map, people always have very wishful thinking about MapBox pricing and it usually ends up almost the same as Google Maps pricing. This isn't an accident, they need to be a better priced alternative but they also need to pay the bills. The pull to switch at that point would be if you need better address lookup or something. If you are doing a very local map (like the equivalent of a few tiles for your average user), you're often better off just rolling your own tile server. People are often surprised how easy it is.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
    > Apple Maps and Google Maps are free in an iOS app Google API is not free. It would be at least a 4-digit cost per month. I think that my friend was hit with a $1,500/mo nut. Google changed terms (back when they started demanding that all users of the API give credit card numbers). His app is fairly popular, and he'd need to pay them for the SDK. > all of these libraries are third-party dependencies... I've been relying on Apple's toolkits since 1986. They've pulled a couple of stunts (OpenDoc, anyone?), but they have been a reliable partner, for the most part. > If we're talking just about the javascript API I don't do JS. I do native Swift. It would require embedding their API. My friend did that, and it was far more cost-effective. Lot less than Google (he sells his app for $0.99, and it's not popular enough to do much more than pay for itself). MapBox is quite nice. His app is native ObjC. He's had it out for quite a while. He originally started with Google's API, as that was the only one that offered the particular services he needed. Most of the stuff I write is free, open-source. I could probably get Google to let us use it for free (we're a 501(c)(3)), but I've already seen them turn the screws once, and I'm in no mind to set myself up for something like them deciding that we could give them a tithe. Also, I have had some ... issues ... with third-party libraries. I'm quite particular about the Quality of my work, and I find that not too many others share my passion.
rcarmo 5y ago
This needs a (2020) in the title.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
GeekyBear 5y ago
Since this 2020 post, Apple's home grown map data has extended to all of the US and it's territories, Canada, Ireland, The U.K., Spain, Portugal, and Italy. I believe Australia is the next addition. https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps-expansion-12 https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps-expansion-12 You can access the Apple Maps web interface through DuckDuckGo. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Rome+Italy&ia=web&iaxm=maps https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Rome+Italy&ia=web&iaxm=maps
MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
I discovered that Google Maps is consuming a huge amount of data, several GB during my last vacation, nearly depleting my contingent. How does Apple Maps compare?
- lnanek2 5y ago
  Google Maps does have an offline download option it offers occasionally if you know how to trigger it. Have never seen Apple Maps offer that.
  - MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
    It was an island and I downloaded it completely as offline map, didn't help at all. Or do you mean something else?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

153 points by chenglou 5y ago

Now if Apple Maps can only add a "north-up" option while navigating, instead of turning the map when I turn, causing me to lose all orientation!

gordon_freeman 5y ago

I recently started using Apple Maps in my car using CarPlay and just pleasantly surprised with some nice features as showing STOP and SIGNAL signs on the map so I know when to stop way beforehand in my mind rather than straining my eyes to look for those signs when I get closer to them. Makes a huge difference when you are tired and can not focus 100% when driving.

alberth 5y ago

Google = data company Apple = design company, who's getting better at being a data company As an aside, I really love reading these yearly posts from Justin. I always drop what I'm doing when I see one of these posts from him.

lnanek2 5y ago

Even if Apple Maps doesn't have as much data as Google, the experience is so much better. Makes a lot of sense that Google is copying it as per the article. Whenever I use Google Maps, it constantly harasses me about how there's a slowdown ahead, puts a little tray across the bottom of the screen hiding the information I care about, with no way to get rid of it except tapping and other nonsense. I searched throughout the settings and can't find anyway to turn off all these annoying pop ups it has. Someone needs to write an ad blocker for it. Apple Maps not only doesn't constantly harass me with meaningless notifications I can't dismiss without taking my hands off the wheel, it also shows traffic lights, and the voice over instructions include them as well. With Google I often turn too early or too late because it isn't very clear exactly when to turn. With Apple Maps that happens a lot less because Siri will flat out tell you, turn at this light, turn at the next light, etc..

Rebelgecko 5y ago
Those popups autodismiss after something like 5-10 seconds
mthoms 5y ago
I've identified so many traffic lights for Google (via reCaptcha). Probably hundreds. I'm surprised they haven't integrated that info into maps yet. The free labor I've provided them is probably enough to cover an entire neighbourhood already :)

websap 5y ago

I've been recently trying out the new Apple maps' turn by turn navigation. Some of the directions are almost human like - "Take a left at next traffic light" Must say makes driving directions easier to follow compared to take a left on X street, when I can't even see what X street is at night.

mattlondon 5y ago
Doesn't Google maps do this too? At least in the UK I can hear "at the roundabout, take the Xth exit" echoing in my head right now. Can't remember about traffic lights. It does mention road names though which is kinda silly... If I knew the roads well enough to know what they are called I'd not need directions!
- websap 5y ago
  Definitely doesn't do it for traffic lights in the US.
- Rebelgecko 5y ago
  Google Maps also uses landmarks, eg "turn right after the GameStop". AFAIK those aren't sponsored
  - websap 5y ago
    Problem is that when I'm driving I'm not paying attention to businesses around me. I've gotten a direction once like take left at Starbucks, how far is the starbucks away, is it the next left or the one after that? Now I need to glance for a Starbucks while I'm driving?
LindyTalker 5y ago
I have noticed this as well. Much easier too when it's saying which lane to be in when you're exiting a highway
- jiveturkey 5y ago

TedShiller 5y ago

To compete, Apple Maps will also need to have a fully accessible web version

sixstringtheory 5y ago
Why is that? As far as I can imagine, people using Apple maps, especially those requiring accessibility features, will be using the app on their phone.
- mattlondon 5y ago
  It is embedded in various places on the web - e.g. duckduckgo uses it. You don't get a choice if the website owner forces it on you
McElodeon 5y ago
DuckDuckGo's maps are powered by Apple Maps, so technically they do.
- TedShiller 5y ago
  that's cool, i had no idea

tylerrobinson 5y ago

Every time I've tried Apple Maps, I run into the same problem--it doesn't seem to predict your realtime location ahead by X feet to account for your speed and delay in GPS signal. Google Maps does this. The result is that on Apple Maps, your position is "behind" where you really are at the moment, and it's harder to make the turn. Google's tradeoff is that if you miss a turn, it will momentarily show your position as if you'd made the turn correctly. Perhaps this is a matter of preference, but I am much more successful at navigating while driving using Google Maps than with Apple Maps.

fomine3 5y ago
Possibly only Android Auto receives vehicle speed signal from a car? https://developer.android.com/reference/android/car/VehiclePropertyIds https://developer.android.com/reference/android/car/VehicleP...
- tylerrobinson 5y ago
  I have never used Android or iOS car integrations. I am speaking from using GPS while driving, so I meant the app’s ability to calculate your speed based on GPS.
uptown 5y ago
I've noticed the same thing. I do use Apple Maps in Carplay, but have learned to anticipate what's shown on-screen in-relation to where I'm actually located. Seems like it's certainly fixable, but I'm surprised it hasn't been addressed already given that two random strangers on the internet highlight that as one of the service's primary weaknesses.
- bezossucks 5y ago
  Has Apple ever factored user feedback into its designs? They seem pretty dictatorial in how they approach UX.. "Apple knows best, user will adjust." <-- typing this from a Mac, while learning how to use iPad's opaque gestures...

OsmanBella 5y ago

I bring you all reading this short story of mine a special greetings and letter of advice so you don't end up being scammed, I'm Augustine Eli from Illinois, I invested with a broker trade site where I ended up paying more just to withdraw my profit of which I paid capital for. After paying 5 times fee I noticed it is all fraud and these scammers never give up until one has to stop by itself. I lose $201,391.04 US dollars to this bitcoin trade broker's scam. after I noticed I was being used, I ended up searching for a recovery agent hacker, I came across two different recovery scammer entirely who knows very much on how to make you believe that they are capable of what they are doing not knowing that it was a total fraud. to make it shot I was finally referred to youngwizardjacksonrecovery AT YAHOO dot COM by a friend and I wrote to him and then explained everything to him, he responded fast and i decided to work with him, in less than 72 hours i received my lose funds. All thanks to youngwizardjacksonrecovery AT YAHOO DOT COM who gave me back my life again.whatsapp young wizard jack (+1) (807)/ 234..0335;

throwawaysea 5y ago

This article is from last year but the latest iOS 15 updates show how mature Apple maps has become (see https://www.macrumors.com/guide/ios-15-maps/ https://www.macrumors.com/guide/ios-15-maps/). It’s not just at parity but actually better than Google maps. It has beautiful rendering and easy readability, and I haven’t encountered odd routing issues for a couple years now. The added privacy is a welcome bonus. The only thing missing is a way to report police presence like on Waze. I’ve been impressed by Apple’s pace and wish there was more I could read about their engineering and product journey for the maps product.

bori5 5y ago
“Easy readability” on this point I find myself wishing there was a way to make street names and fonts in general bigger in Apple Maps. Also green font on green backgrounds, why ? In terms of planning there is still no way to add multiple routes along the way which would be a nice addition.
- Someone 5y ago
  _If_ you can live with having larger text in other apps, too, you can do that in the accessibility settings.
  - bori5 5y ago
    That helps at the expense of everything else now borked, but I wonder what is so hard about having a per app font setting ?
- reaperducer 5y ago
  A lot of Apple products have bad font issues, and Apple Maps is among the worst. There's simply no way anyone at Apple has checked contrast or font size for accessibility in Apple Maps. Once the road labels were so frustratingly small that I took a screenshot and opened it in Photoshop just to see how small it was. One label was 4px. Another was 6px. How is anyone supposed to read a six pixel tall word? Here's an example of Apple Maps using a FIVE PIXEL TALL font: https://twitter.com/Reaperducer/status/1277319668194148352 https://twitter.com/Reaperducer/status/1277319668194148352 Seriously?

sandgiant 5y ago

> Perhaps the most noticeable difference between Apple’s old and new maps is all of the vegetation detail Apple has added. I really don't understand the way they blend forests and fields together. It used to be that forests and grasslands were marked green and agricultural land was white, so you could easily tell the difference. Now they are the same, or nearly the same, color while the difference in landscape is massive. To actually tell the difference now you have to switch to the satellite map. I don't see how this is adding more detail. If anything it's providing less information.

asutekku 5y ago
It makes it prettier since a fields in the aerial view are not aesthetically very pleasing.

echelon 5y ago

I still don't get it. Apple is a company people cheer for, yet it continues to accrue substantial and dangerous power. They don't let you repair devices, install your own software, or run your business unfettered. They spy on your files. They coddle and report to authoritarian governments. This monopoly is lauded and praised as it continues to get bigger and encompass everything one does. I don't understand it. It hurts to watch this.

dev_tty01 5y ago
First, I don't think your comment is relevant to this discussion, but I guess that has never stopped anyone on HN. People complain about Apple maps, and the article is about how much work Apple is doing to improve their maps. As to many of your other points, they are just wrong. I do repair my own devices, I do install my own software and I do run my business unfettered. I can't speak for others, but your assertion is not consistent with my own experience. Which files do they "spy" on? They do offer on-device services like automatic photo tagging, rule based email filtering, etc. I can use those or not. I can grep and search my files, so I guess Apple (the OS) is "looking" at my files. Is that different than any OS? Basically any OS vendor has access to your files. You either trust it or you don't. Apple's business model is not built on selling my data to advertisers so I choose to trust them. You are welcome to make another choice. As far as coddling to authoritarian governments, yes they follow the laws of the countries they operate in. So do any other companies that operate in those countries. That stinks, but that is the reality. Companies can either abandon markets or follow local laws. Which of these is the long term good? Lots of valid arguments both ways, but there can be no argument on one point. Operating in country X requires following the laws of country X. Look, they are no saints, I get that. But they build great devices that do everything I want them to do. Of course there are people that have bad experiences, but overall Apple's customer satisfaction numbers are extremely high and people keep buying their devices. That's not an opinion. To your central point, yes, as Apple offers more services that I find useful they do accrue more power. Which large companies that offer useful services do not accrue associated power? I choose to align with the company whose business model is not built upon selling me and my data to third parties. Eyes wide open. There are other good choices and I am happy for other people to make different choices. I don't feel pain for them.

dchest 5y ago

Meanwhile, in other parts of the world it cannot even get the shape of land and country borders right. Here's an example on the border of Montenegro and Albania: https://imgur.com/a/B3aVJYH https://imgur.com/a/B3aVJYH

mtmail 5y ago
You can report data issues at https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/149 https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/149 (Montenegro) https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/148 https://github.com/osmlab/appledata/issues/148 (Albania)
- dchest 5y ago
  Is this for Apple's data collaboration with OpenStreetMaps? I don't get it — both countries seem have very good coverage in OSM, but not in Apple Maps.
littlestymaar 5y ago
Google Maps is better[1] but none of them come even remotely close of Open Street Maps[2] [1]: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.858832,19.3550722,13.71z https://www.google.com/maps/@41.858832,19.3550722,13.71z [2]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/728419973#map=13/41.8835/19.4111 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/728419973#map=13/41.8835/...
- eliaspro 5y ago
  Geofabrik provides MapCompare for this... The differences between OSM and the rest are staggering! https://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/#14/41.8650/19.3868&num=4&mt0=mapnik&mt1=google-map&mt2=here-hybrid&mt3=here-map https://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/#14/41.8650/19.3868&num=4&mt0=...
  - zimpenfish 5y ago
    Currently showing a "this page cannot load Google Maps correctly". I guess they ran out of free views? (But also underscoring quite effectively the other people saying "I won't build on Google Maps")

asymmetric 5y ago

From 2020.

littlestymaar 5y ago

I still don't understand why Apple map is so bad compared to OpenStreetMap given that they contribute a lot to it (they are even the biggest company contributor to OSM). There must be a reason, legal or something, but why don't they just use OSM as a default for places they didn't map by themselves? [1]: https://www.gislounge.com/openstreetmap-one-of-the-worlds-largest-collaborative-geospatial-projects/ https://www.gislounge.com/openstreetmap-one-of-the-worlds-la...

webmobdev 5y ago
I think it might be because Apple will have to give visible attribution to OpenStreetMaps, which may attract users towards it to the detriment of Apple maps.
- mikestew 5y ago
  When I go to choose which map type I'd like in Apple Maps, right there at the bottom, just below TomTom's logo: "© OpenStreetMap and other data providers"
- littlestymaar 5y ago
  But why do they contribute then?!
  - webmobdev 5y ago
    They do use OpenStreetMaps data and give attribution to them as one of their sources. But if they were to only use OSM's data, people would cry foul that Apple maps is not giving them clear and visible attribution (for e.g. by adding a "OpenStreetMap" label on the map you are viewing in Apple Maps). Right now, except for maps source providers that legally require Apple to provide visible attribution somewhere in their UI, all attributions are tucked away somewhere in the internet - https://gspe21-ssl.ls.apple.com/html/attribution-199.html https://gspe21-ssl.ls.apple.com/html/attribution-199.html
    - kyralis 5y ago

mulmen 5y ago

I’m on the big island of Hawaii and Apple Maps is basically useless. I can’t find my hostel by name. I also can’t find it by address. It’s just very bad.

BitwiseFool 5y ago
Do you think street names and place names being in Hawaiian might have anything to do with this?
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Hopefully not, I was under the impression that my iPhone respected diversity and inclusion!
- mulmen 5y ago
  I think it has more to do with a lack of competence on the part of the maps team. Place names are just strings.
barkerja 5y ago
This is actually somewhat surprising given that Hawaii was one of the first states to get surveyed directly by Apple. Is it a recent address? And have you tried reporting it? My personal experience is Apple is pretty responsive to (all) Maps reports.

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago

I’m using Apple Maps for the app that I’m developing now. The alternative would not have been Google Maps. It would have been MapBox. Google Maps will give app developers like me severe sticker shock. I watched a friend of mine get it in the shorts (forcing him to switch to MapBox). After watching that, I decided that I will never depend on Google services as a linchpin technology. In fact, it simply hardened my resolve to avoid third-party dependence, wherever possible. When I started the project I’m working on now, Apple Maps had already grown to cover all of the US, albeit not as well as Google Maps. I’ve been seeing Apple Maps cars driving around here, for at least a couple of years. I’m pretty confident that relying on Apple Maps was not a mistake.

magicalist 5y ago
> I’m using Apple Maps for the app that I’m developing now. The alternative would not have been Google Maps. It would have been MapBox. It's easy to make a theoretical stance like this, but Apple Maps and Google Maps are free in an iOS app, but MapBox is not. If you were forced to switch off Apple Maps for some reason, it seems likely the free option would win out. > it simply hardened my resolve to avoid third-party dependence, wherever possible all of these libraries are third-party dependencies... > Google Maps will give app developers like me severe sticker shock If we're talking just about the javascript API, in my experience if you're using more than just a very local map, people always have very wishful thinking about MapBox pricing and it usually ends up almost the same as Google Maps pricing. This isn't an accident, they need to be a better priced alternative but they also need to pay the bills. The pull to switch at that point would be if you need better address lookup or something. If you are doing a very local map (like the equivalent of a few tiles for your average user), you're often better off just rolling your own tile server. People are often surprised how easy it is.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  > Apple Maps and Google Maps are free in an iOS app Google API is not free. It would be at least a 4-digit cost per month. I think that my friend was hit with a $1,500/mo nut. Google changed terms (back when they started demanding that all users of the API give credit card numbers). His app is fairly popular, and he'd need to pay them for the SDK. > all of these libraries are third-party dependencies... I've been relying on Apple's toolkits since 1986. They've pulled a couple of stunts (OpenDoc, anyone?), but they have been a reliable partner, for the most part. > If we're talking just about the javascript API I don't do JS. I do native Swift. It would require embedding their API. My friend did that, and it was far more cost-effective. Lot less than Google (he sells his app for $0.99, and it's not popular enough to do much more than pay for itself). MapBox is quite nice. His app is native ObjC. He's had it out for quite a while. He originally started with Google's API, as that was the only one that offered the particular services he needed. Most of the stuff I write is free, open-source. I could probably get Google to let us use it for free (we're a 501(c)(3)), but I've already seen them turn the screws once, and I'm in no mind to set myself up for something like them deciding that we could give them a tithe. Also, I have had some ... issues ... with third-party libraries. I'm quite particular about the Quality of my work, and I find that not too many others share my passion.

rcarmo 5y ago

This needs a (2020) in the title.

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GeekyBear 5y ago

Since this 2020 post, Apple's home grown map data has extended to all of the US and it's territories, Canada, Ireland, The U.K., Spain, Portugal, and Italy. I believe Australia is the next addition. https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps-expansion-12 https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps-expansion-12 You can access the Apple Maps web interface through DuckDuckGo. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Rome+Italy&ia=web&iaxm=maps https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Rome+Italy&ia=web&iaxm=maps

MrBuddyCasino 5y ago

I discovered that Google Maps is consuming a huge amount of data, several GB during my last vacation, nearly depleting my contingent. How does Apple Maps compare?

lnanek2 5y ago
Google Maps does have an offline download option it offers occasionally if you know how to trigger it. Have never seen Apple Maps offer that.
- MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
  It was an island and I downloaded it completely as offline map, didn't help at all. Or do you mean something else?
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