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Len Sassaman and Satoshi: A cypherpunk history
- rssoconnor 5y agoLen wasn't going to go around writing Windows software.
- vecplane 5y agoNitpicking but it's annoying - Why does this post insist on using the singular 'they/their' (in reference to Satoshi) when the normal 'he/his' would suffice and read much more clearly?
- panorama 5y agoBecause Satoshi's identity and whether or not they were a singular individual or a group of individuals is unknown. It is entirely acceptable, and more often than not probabilistically and politically correct, to use they/them here. I doubt anyone would be upset at people using he/him when referring to Satoshi, but also along those same lines, it seems strange to be upset at they/them usage for an unknown entity.
- drfxyjhdyfrhgc 5y agohttps://japanese-names.info/first_name/satoshi/ https://japanese-names.info/first_name/satoshi/ >Gender:male
- perl4ever 5y agoAnd this means what? I certainly could provide a counterexample if you think people always use pseudonyms of the same gender.
- drfxyjhdyfrhgc 5y agoIf someone chooses a male pseudonym, is it sensible for everyone to individually decide what pronouns to use? This strikes me as opposed to similar etiquette.
- perl4ever 5y agoI always liked the singular "they". It was supposedly normal usage for hundreds of years before some prescriptivists tried to stamp it out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they "The singular they emerged by the 14th century,[3] about a century after the plural they. It has been commonly employed in everyday English ever since then and has gained currency in official contexts. Singular they has been criticised since the mid-18th century by prescriptive commentators who considered it an error."
- lifthrasiir 5y agoA good opportunity to learn about the so-called DQN name [1] or Irohahime [2]. [1] https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A9%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A9%E3%83%8D%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A0 https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A9%E3%82%AD%E3... (in Japanese) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irohahime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irohahime
- perl4ever 5y agoIf it's not even known that Satoshi was an individual, how is it known they weren't a woman?
- Spooky23 5y agoThe individual used a male name, so it’s reasonable to make that assumption in common speech. In terms of individual vs group, it seems unlikely that a group would have the discipline to not do anything with billions of dollars or expose the individual with control of the same.
- perl4ever 5y ago>The individual used a male name, so it’s reasonable to make that assumption in common speech. As long as you don't know it's a pseudonym, yes. I don't know when that became generally accepted.
- dcow 5y agoRight. I’ve never experienced dialog or writing where somebody elects a gendered pronoun based on the pseudonymous handle used to reference the antecedent when their gender is either irrelevant, unspecified, or unknown. I’m curious which communities practice this colloquially?
- temp8964 5y agoI think the author of the article already assumes Satoshi is a single person. The name is simply a Japanese male name. So it is obviously wrong to call him "they". This kind of stupidity only works in Woke English. Translate it to most other languages will make the readers deeply confused: what's wrong with the writer? What's going on in his mind?
- dcow 5y agoThere is nothing woke about this. Trust me I am not a fan of useless woke constructs that exist to signal virtue. I’m sure we agree on that. This is not one of those things. When you are referring to some entity with unknown gender, you use “they” and “their” so as not to lead the reader or the person you're speaking towards any assumptions and just because it’s the clearly correct way to convey the state of affairs to your audience (this matters to pedantic people). To someone who practices this in their own communication, it conveys a real signal that others pick up on. Pseudonyms generally aren’t referred to by the gender of the chosen name/handle but rather act as a proxy for the person who uses them, therefore you wouldn't refer to Satoshi as “he/him” but as the gender of the user of the pseudonym which is unknown, hence they/them. The author, while making the case that Len may be Satoshi, never asserts as much to be true. So I also read the usage of they/them as a reminder that they are presenting an argument/case not declaring fact.
- temp8964 5y agoLol. If what you said make any sense at all, why this they/them is not a norm in English already? Please explain why this is a new thing?
- ethbr0 5y agoBecause Satoshi might have been female?
- vecplane 5y agoThere is no evidence to suggest that Satoshi is a woman. Other writings refer to Satoshi as a 'he' without issue.
- mgarfias 5y agoBlast from the past. Worked with him at PGP in 2000. I’m not convinced he was satoshi. But it wouldn’t surprise me if he really was.
- sneak 5y agoWhile I didn't know Len, I've talked to a fair number of people who knew him well (including the person who put that ascii art portrait of him into the blockchain), and none of them have expressed strong agreement with this theory. All we know for sure about Satoshi is that s/he isn't Craig Wright.
- jf 5y ago> the person who put that ascii art portrait of him into the blockchain For what it’s worth, I had a pretty long conversation with this person after Len’s wake. The possibility that Len was behind Bitcoin never came up.
- 0des 5y agoI would highly encourage the article 'The Satoshi Affair' by London Review of Books about the person known as Satoshi Nakamoto and the person who claims to be them. It's a long one, but worth it. [0] - https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v38/n13/andrew-o-hagan/the-satoshi-affair https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v38/n13/andrew-o-hagan/the-s...
- hatmatrix 5y agoI know he's failed to prove it (embarrassingly), but I feel like it's not implausible that it was him and the late Dave Kleinman together as he claims. The mixing of British and American English and time zone issue then makes sense. Also, that Craig Wright boldly claims to be Satoshi likely means he is involved somehow, as he should otherwise fear that the real Satoshi call him out. It may be that Kleinman was the gear-to-the-metal guy and that's why Wright cannot prove his identity (but is somehow too proud to admit it - he's not entirely right in the head either). Not everything checks out and everything may not have happened exactly as Wright claims, but I have trouble completely writing him off.
- 542458 5y ago> otherwise fear that the real Satoshi call him out I mean, this could just be an educated gamble. Satoshi has been unwilling or unable to communicate for many years (with the exception of one highly suspect incident that is very possibly a case of compromised credentials).
- ttul 5y agoHas anyone done a rigorous analysis of his writing style to find a human match?
- rattlesnakedave 5y agoYes. If you Google “satoshi Stylometry” you’ll find a ton. IMO not very fruitful, there is other evidence that is more compelling. If you look around enough it’s easily to get a _pretty good_ idea of who it was, based on things like early interactions with satoshi, neighbors with unusual surnames, etc. but no way to know for sure.
- acjohnson55 5y agoDo you have a particular link? Because simply googling the term, I find a few things that don't even mention Sassaman. But it also seems like they may be preselecting the candidates and applying the analysis to only their works. For whatever reason, Sassaman hasn't been spoken of much as a candidate, and is unclear whether his writings (of which there are many) would have been included.
- mijoharas 5y agoI believe the parent comment is referring to Hal Finney. Similar points are made in this other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28815538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28815538
- acjohnson55 5y agoYeah, but some of the stylometric analyses point to the other leading candidates. It doesn't seem like there is a stylometric consensus.
- Proven 5y agoAl Gore?
- josu 5y agoThis is the response from Len's widow, Meredith, the last time a similar article was posted. "It's a very well-researched and respectful article, but to the best of my knowledge, Len was not Satoshi. Worth reading for the history and the conclusions about mental health, though." https://twitter.com/maradydd/status/1364325186372304904?t=yYnVYmFUcTrs63UBEG3uCw&s=19 https://twitter.com/maradydd/status/1364325186372304904?t=yY...
- Gatsky 5y agoI see this as the only rational response despite what the truth may be - can you imagine what would happen if Meredith acknowledged that Len was Satoshi Nakamoto? I think it is also possible Len did't tell his wife about Satoshi, or alternatively asked that she never reveal Satoshi's true identity.
- brighton36 5y agoDoes anyone want to write a 'Satoshi Nakamoto : Eugene Leitl'?
- paulpauper 5y agoThe linguistic analysis does not hold water. Len was born in PA. He would not start using British language patterns like that. but rather retain native tongue.
- dsizzle 5y agoThe article addresses that: he did in fact use British language patterns e.g. in his tweets.
- tejohnso 5y ago> Finney invented the concept of Reusable Proofs of Work which Bitcoin’s mining is based on. I had no idea someone else was involved in such a fundamental part of Bitcoin. Great article.
- anonporridge 5y agoMany pieces to the puzzle. https://twitter.com/documentingbtc/status/1411281903546683395 https://twitter.com/documentingbtc/status/141128190354668339...
- rattlesnakedave 5y agoHal, Wei Dai, Nick Szabo, Adam Back, all key contributors that did prior work in the space.
- tromp 5y agoSome people are convinced it's the latter: https://news.bitcoin.com/the-many-facts-pointing-to-adam-back-being-satoshi/ https://news.bitcoin.com/the-many-facts-pointing-to-adam-bac...
- shimonabi 5y agoIn my opinion Satoshi Nakamoto is not a pseudonym at all. Don't underestimate weaponized autism.
- na85 5y ago>Don't underestimate weaponized autism. Meaning what, exactly?
- russianbandit 5y agoProbably that there’s a real person named Satoshi Nakamoto out there, who’s an autistic savant that authored BitCoin v0.1.
- shimonabi 5y agoDorian graduated in physics and does programming for a living. I'm sure he can do anything if he puts his mind to it.
- throw7 5y ago"I hesitate to speculate about Satoshi’s identity" speculates with pages upon pages of satoshi's identity.
- acjohnson55 5y agoAnd yet, he may have literally hesitated before doing so :)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- acjohnson55 5y agoReplies to that article mention Len's tweets about Bitcoin don't necessarily seem like those of its creator, if he was tweeting earnestly. That, and his wife not believing he was Satoshi (while not claiming it was impossible) are the biggest counterpoints I've come across. Still, I find it a very compelling case. Sassaman as part of a Satoshi collective also seems possible. https://twitter.com/search?q=(Bitcoin)%20(from%3Alensassaman)&src=typed_query https://twitter.com/search?q=(Bitcoin)%20(from%3Alensassaman...
- reducesuffering 5y agoAlso that Len was a Unix-style C++ whereas original Bitcoin was definitely a Windows programmer
- acjohnson55 5y agoThat's a good data point. Although many people program for both OSs, it at least raises the question of why make a Windows app, if it's not your preferred platform?
- atatatat 5y agoWhy did the person who published a whitepaper they hoped would change the world write an adjacent app for the most used consumer OS in the world?
- acjohnson55 5y agoLet's say it was Sassaman and that it's true that he was primarily a Unix programmer. If he didn't have any pretenses that it would become an immediate hit, he might have focused on coding in his comfort zone. Presumably the people he interacted with who were most interested were probably also Unix users. On the other hand, he was Bram Cohen's roommate, and he saw BitTorrent take off as a mainstream product. So it's quite possible he was sensitive to the idea that a Windows program would have more viral ability to pick up users. In any case, he probably would have assumed that if the system gained even a minimal level of adoption, it would quickly be ported to all platforms.
- nostrademons 5y agoSatoshi came out of retirement in March 2014 to state that he was not Dorian Nakamoto, in the wake of a Newsweek article that falsely fingered the latter as Satoshi: https://techcrunch.com/2014/03/06/satoshi-dorian/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/03/06/satoshi-dorian/ I still think it was Hal Finney, who was in similar cypherpunk circles, created the first PoW system, received the first Bitcoin transaction, lived in the same town as Dorian Nakamoto for 10 years, was diagnosed with ALS about a year before Satoshi disappeared from Bitcoin development, died in August 2014, and was cryopreserved.
- acjohnson55 5y agoFinney must be considered a candidate, but considering that Sassaman took his own life after declining health, it's possible he may have put in place a succession plan for the ability to speak as Satoshi. Which could be separate from a succession plan for the Satoshi bitcoin hoard.
- abecedarius 5y agoBesides the points others have made here, iirc Finney explicitly denied it. (Same for Szabo.) He didn't have to -- a Glomar response would be perfectly reasonable whether or not you are Satoshi. I'd take the explicit answer of someone not known to be a liar as the first piece of evidence to mention, not an "oh by the way" far down in the list.
- jjordan 5y agoI think it's Nick Szabo. This is the article that convinced me: https://www.bitcoininsider.org/article/78686/i-designed-bitcoi-gold-many-facts-pointing-nick-being-satoshi https://www.bitcoininsider.org/article/78686/i-designed-bitc...
- doopy1 5y agoNah, it was Paul Le Roux https://www.wired.com/story/was-bitcoin-created-by-this-international-drug-dealer-maybe/ https://www.wired.com/story/was-bitcoin-created-by-this-inte...
- trixie_ 5y agoMy money is on Paul Le Roux.. most hackers are too uppity to write windows software. Le Roux was a pragmatist with a real practical need to move dirty money without banks.
- lottin 5y agoI don't know that creating an whole new currency can be considered a "practical solution" to the need of having to move dirty money around. Surely there must be easier ways to achieve that goal and with a higher chance of success as well.
- trixie_ 5y agoFor him an encryption/programming expert it might of been. There were posts back in 2005 about how to design a 'bit gold' and he was already jumping through hoops to launder money to gold bars through hong kong with all kinds of problems. The motivation was there.
- dereg 5y agoI went deep into the PLR rabbit hole because I too believed that PLR could have been Satoshi. The one dagger to the heart of the theory is that PLR lived in the Philippines at the time. If you line up Satoshi’s posting times with PLR’s local time zone, you’d have to assume that PLR was posting from 4-9ish in the Philippines.
- mdoms 5y ago> you’d have to assume that PLR was posting from 4-9ish in the Philippines. Ok? Why is that a dagger in the heart? My most active posting times are 4-9 and I don't even know if you're talking AM or PM because both work for me.
- russianbandit 5y agoYou mostly sleep between 9pm and 4am?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- adamnemecek 5y agoIt’s funny that people always guess that Satoshi is someone already famous as opposed to someone who is not known.
- psyc 5y agoThank you. I’ve been saying this for years. He could very well have been some listserv lurker who followed the prior art, and just went ahead and solved the outstanding problems on his own. There are far more brilliant programmers out there working quietly, than those who are known. Everybody reaches for a name they know because that’s all that’s available to reach for.
- 1ark 5y agoJust some lurker of that early mailing list, absorbing knowledge that eventually culminated into the code and paper. The number of unknown great programmers is a lot. What I think is interesting is that it was both code and a paper, not only code. So at least a grad student. And likely someone that starts many projects, because they left after only one year. Something else could have gotten more interesting.
- russianbandit 5y agoUnless they really left… RIP.
- 1ark 5y agoSure, at least today that is more probable and maybe by now they truly did pass on. The range of possibilities are of course endless. But at that time, if we take their statement literally[1] they just moved on to other things. 1. https://plan99.net/~mike/satoshi-emails/thread5.html https://plan99.net/~mike/satoshi-emails/thread5.html
- Graffur 5y agoI wonder what could be more interesting
- 5y ago
- crb002 5y agoSomebody at Dice.com probably still has satoshi's IP logs.
- curation 5y agoI think Satoshi is a Stone Soup.
- p1peridine 5y agoSatoshi left an unfinished video poker game in the source code in Bitcoin v0.1.3 ALPHA: https://github.com/trottier/original-bitcoin/blob/master/src/uibase.cpp#L1573 https://github.com/trottier/original-bitcoin/blob/master/src... I'm curious if either Szabo, Finney, Le Roux or Sassaman have had any connections to poker or gambling in the past?
- christoph 5y agoYes, Le Roux did for sure. “Around the same time, Le Roux was working on a gaming engine for an online casino he intended to launch in Canada and Romania.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Le_Roux https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Le_Roux
- adminscoffee 5y agoin the early days, crypto was sometimes used for things like illegal drugs, maybe it's some really smart addict who is paranoid
- aazaa 5y ago> I hesitate to speculate about Satoshi’s identity, given that the discourse has generally ranged from misguided to downright idiotic and unethical. But with Craig Wright fraudulently claiming credit and invoking a copyright claim to take down the Bitcoin whitepaper, it’s important we revisit the topic and recenter the discussion around the Cypherpunks who actually built Bitcoin. If the author cared about the shenanigans of fraud Craig Wright, a better approach would be to deal with them directly. The only thing that's hard about that is that the false claims are so numerous. Wright has conjured a tornado of bullshit. In the process, he has built a loyal following. This is the real story, because the Craig Wrights of the world are wising up to the power of the Internet. They're multiplying, spilling out of the woodwork, and overrunning the pantry. People have an insatiable hunger to be lied to with gusto, and the Internet gives them everything they need to satisfy that hunger. All it takes is an unethical person who understands this point and has no qualms about exploiting it. Past a point, the fact checkers just give up. We've seen several examples now of this phenomenon. But the Internet-savvy Big Liar is on an exponential growth curve.
- julienchastang 5y agoReading this article, I am struck by how BitCoin and crypto currencies had idealistic origins. Contrast that with practical realities of crypto today which seems to be fueling mostly speculation and illegality. It is also an environmental and climate disaster.
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- moneytide1 5y agoDave Ramsey will fire employees for gossip (He's got to hear about it somehow - is this a paradox?). Here's a gossip Riddle for you to drool over: Satoshi is Mr. Wilkinson (posturing as Mr. Slugsworth) probing for which one of you is useful enough to wield that kind of muscle.