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The Mind Has No Firewall (1998) [pdf]
- vector_spaces 5y agoThis is missing a [PDF] tag.
- dp-hackernews 5y agoNoted. Thanks.
- renewiltord 5y agoSnow Crash plays with the idea of brain exploits using specially constructed sounds. Roko’s Basilisk is an idea that hearing of will put you in danger of. I enjoy the concept.
- missblit 5y agoI heard of (and even understood) Roko's Basilisk and I don't feel the least bit in danger. You need some pretty niche AI / futurology beliefs to even have a chance of considering it dangerous. For most people it's no more convincing than Pascal's Wager.
- davidgerard 5y agothere's enough who believe it that I still get emails asking for help with dealing with it (I wrote most of the Roko's Basilisk article on RationalWiki)
- missblit 5y agoYeah that article (and reading some of Yudkowsky's stuff back as a teenager) is the only reason I can claim to understand how it works. I also may be underestimating the number of futurology / AI enthusiast types; but my intuition is that there can't be _that many_ of them outside of Silicon Valley bubbles.
- AbrahamParangi 5y agoI think Roko's Basilisk is secretly a warning against over-reliance on rationalization.
- teraflop 5y agoProbably more relevant than Roko's Basilisk is David Langford's story "comp.basilisk FAQ". https://www.nature.com/articles/44964 https://www.nature.com/articles/44964
- still_grokking 5y agoWhile reading this I've checked the URL (more than once) to be sure I'm really reading a Nature article. I've checked even the TLS certificate of the site after some while. It has a working DOI, it's form Nature. But it could be something written by an Anon on 4Chan actually! Still not sure what this is, and why it's in Nature. Do they occasionally publish jokes?
- popcube 5y agonature usually contain one science fiction in one issue
- lovecg 5y agoRoko’s Basilisk seems like something lifted straight from Christianity: if you know about the scripture you don’t have an excuse of ignorance to sin freely; the day of judgment is coming, etc. I see a lot of parallels.
- jareklupinski 5y agodamn i was so close to forgetting about it thanks
- throw0101a 5y ago> Snow Crash plays with the idea of brain exploits using specially constructed sounds. Images: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash
- anonporridge 5y agoTangentially related is the concept of a memetic hazard, although this would be more something that targets the collective hivemind rather than weapons that target individual human brains. https://memetics.miraheze.org/wiki/Memetic_hazard https://memetics.miraheze.org/wiki/Memetic_hazard https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/understanding-memetics https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/understanding-memetics
- Hayarotle 5y agoFor a more serious, non-fiction take, I find this article by Nick Bostron on Information Hazards and their typology a quite interesting read too: https://nickbostrom.com/information-hazards.pdf https://nickbostrom.com/information-hazards.pdf
- umvi 5y agoI like to call these "thought prions" - infectious thoughts that near-permanently alter the way you perceive the world. I've seen several extended family members (on both sides of the political spectrum!) completely alter their worldviews based on political thought prions planted in their minds during covid.
- Angostura 5y agoThe word "meme" as originally defined by Richard Dawkins (in The Selfish Gene) fits the role well - a self replicating belief or set of belief. He gave religion as the prime examople of an infectious meme - 'you must believe these set of things - you must also transmit the beliefs to others, or they risk eternal damnation'.
- anonporridge 5y agoRed pills might be another term.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- throwaway81523 5y ago
- imglorp 5y agoThe killer joke might qualify. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Funniest_Joke_in_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Funniest_Joke_in_the_World
- api 5y agoThe 2020s version would be a meme that simultaneously offends everyone of every belief system. “A meme so offensive not even the most determined edgelord can see it without outrage!!!”
- maddyboo 5y agoDown the Wikipedia Rabbit Hole we go: > During the initial run of [A Fish Called Wanda], a Danish audiologist named Ole Bentzen died while laughing during a screening, which led newspapers to report that he had died from laughter. The official cause of death was heart fibrillation, which may have been caused by an increased heart rate due to extended laughter. Cleese considered using the event for publicity, but ultimately decided it was in too bad taste. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fish_Called_Wanda#Death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fish_Called_Wanda#Death
- judge2020 5y agoMore historical claims of such: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_from_laughter#Notable_cases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_from_laughter#Notable_ca...
- H8crilA 5y agoOlder minds automatically acquire firewalls: https://mobile.twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1433160096465494020?lang=en https://mobile.twitter.com/nntaleb/status/143316009646549402... Very old minds are practically just a firewall.
- Shorel 5y agoA sceptic mind has an imperfect but functional firewall. A religious mind has no firewall. Yep the article is about some fancy perception altering weapons, but they are not necessary. Just some misinformation poured to already-compromised minds and havoc will be broken.
- danbmil99 5y ago> A religious mind has no firewall. No, I think a religious mind has an excellent firewall against everything except the religion believed in
- yissp 5y agoReminds me of how a rhinovirus infection can supposedly prevent sars-cov2 from taking hold https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56483445 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56483445
- mistermann 5y agoHow do you apply this theory to minds that follow Taoism?
- mdp2021 5y agoThey are simply using the term "in demotic and in decrepit use" to indicate almost its opposite. It is not always easy to find terms (some in the end use the formula "so-called religions"); a possibility could be 'fideism', but it was "hijacked" (legitimately, this time) to mean something different. Even the expression 'blind faith' would be improper, because "faith" there may mean "grit, persistence" (where a degree and a pre-vetted version of "blindness" is functional). But certainly, if the poster used the almost-oxymoron «religion believed in», of course what was meant was very different from what the terms should have meant. To move to the positive content of that post, the idea could be simply that of "focus": when exposed to mental poison it may work not to re-enforce it by giving it attention (during rational analysis you could treat the poison as an assumption (also in broad outside logic terms: much poison comes not in form of statements), which brings the risk of reinforcing it - it is not easy to "handle with care"), and instead return focussing on the clean and let the subconscious systems at least pre-digest it. De-power ideas (etc.) by refusing attention feed. Which oddly enough, is one of the techniques practitioners had to meet.
- chrisco255 5y ago:puts on tinfoil hat: This article seems to imply that these energy pulse weapons that affect mental state, like the ones rumored in Cuba not so long ago do exist or have existed since the 90s.
- tsimionescu 5y agoThe events in Cuba have been studies and even US government reports say there were no microwaves, no ultrasounds, no other energy weapons. The only sounds that could be recorded were positively identflified to a particular cricket.
- chrisco255 5y agoDo you always believe every study or media report? Not even saying I believe directed energy weapons were used as I am half-joking but the original article above is from the 90s. What top secret tech does the military have that you don't know about and what would the reports on prematurely leaked classified defense secrets sound like in the media?
- tsimionescu 5y agoNo, but I do tend to believe the ones that are going against the heavily pushed story, especially if they are in support of the null hypothesis (no one was attacking American diplomats with woo woo energy weapons).
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- motohagiography 5y agoThat's quaint. Post Cambridge Analytica, FB's instagram affecting kids story, ad-tech, alternative data providers, unpersonings, twitter bots, etc. "psychotronic warfare" sounds adorable - or maybe from that time in history looking forward, we could be considered to all be hooked into the global Psychotron now? The mind does have firewalls, and it filters on the same keyword principles as network ones. The difference in online news sources affects the language people use to express the ideas they affiliate with, and we identify words and even patterns of thought with those tribes. It's like class. Psychotronic weapons sounds like a cool startup idea though.
- aj7 5y agohttps://books.google.com/books?id=vAsAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=black+widow+pulse+weapon&source=bl&ots=L-aQvX3uO3&sig=ACfU3U2ED8fBewG5FUz49AAiMTNpeWeeQg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjXi8Sg3b7zAhVUHzQIHTJwBhgQ6AF6BAghEAI#v=onepage&q=black%20widow%20pulse%20weapon&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=vAsAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA11&lpg=P...
- kongin 5y agoIf you haven't read the article read it, don't just read the title. I have no idea if this is the type of thing they put as reading material in toilets in the pentagon (which I fully support if they also regularly run out of toilet paper) or if this is what top level intelligence analysis is. If it's the former the West is doomed: >The term "psycho-terrorism" was coined by Russian writer N. Anisimov of the Moscow Anti-Psychotronic Center. According to Anisimov, psychotronic weapons are those that act to "take away a part of the information which is stored in a man's brain. It is sent to a computer, which reworks it to the level needed for those who need to control the man, and the modified information is then reinserted into the brain." These weapons are used against the mind to induce hallucinations, sickness, mutations in human cells, "zombification," or even death. Included in the arsenal are VHF generators, X-rays, ultrasound, and radio waves. Russian army Major I. Chernishev, writing in the military journal Orienteer in February 1997, asserted that "psy" weapons are under development all over the globe. At the time the Russian Armies largest concern was getting enough socks for it's conscripts in Chechnya. I would expect to read material of this quality on the 4chan conspiracy board or maybe infowars if it's a slow newsday, not in official US government documentation.
- jameshart 5y agoSeveral years ago, there were a number of credulous stories in the tech news about a DARPA project called the "Energetically Autonomous Tactical Robot", 'EATR' [0], a robot that could refuel itself by ingesting biomass. Obviously the idea that the US military was researching robots that ate (formerly) living things as fuel engendered a certain reaction in the online community. You probably haven't heard much about EATR in the intervening years. Who knows, maybe it's still being developed? But what intrigued me at the time, though, was that the research organization to which this EATR project was attributed was one 'Robotic Technology Inc.', RTI [1] - and that, on that organization's projects page, they list (I actually find it kind of amazing that this is still the case to this day): - EATR - IVTT (apparently the 'intelligent vehicle technology transfer project' [2] ... so far so DARPA... but then: - Military Memetics - Cognitive Collective So what stood out there: Military Memetics. From their website: "The initial focus is to establish a scientific basis for memetics in order to predict and control memes and their effects.... The attempt to establish a scientific basis for memetics is critically important. For example, within a suitable memetics framework could be the means to prevent irrational conflict and promote rational solutions to endemic national and international problems. Of course, without safeguards memetics can become a double-edged sword." I leave it to your judgement to determine whether the announcement of the EATR project and its subsequent online reaction were a legitimate DARPA robotics research announcement, or alternatively just a bit of practical military memetics research.... It's kind of interesting that this site hasn't been updated since. It almost feels like a leftover outpost in some kind of ARG marketing campaign. Note this was first in the news in the timeframe of 2007-2010. At the time this seemed kind of amusing. Well before Cambridge Analytica, eastern European fake news troll farms, or GRU Fancy Bear weaponized misinformation campaigns. I guess it's kind of reassuring, in a way, that the academic defense research establishment has maybe been considering the post-Internet information warfare environment seriously for some time... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energetically_Autonomous_Tactical_Robot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energetically_Autonomous_Tacti... [1] https://www.robotictechnologyinc.com/index.php/home https://www.robotictechnologyinc.com/index.php/home [2] https://www.robotictechnologyinc.com/images/upload/file/Website%20Input%20IVTT%20Overview.pdf https://www.robotictechnologyinc.com/images/upload/file/Webs... (PDF warning)
- koziserek 5y ago
- everly 5y agoThe book Infinite Jest is centered around a video that, if watched, renders the watcher incapable of doing anything else but attempting to re-watch the video. It’s a fascinating work.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- cable39 5y agookay, and this is from 1997. I imagine we are getting attacked from all sides. Awareness is only the beginning.
- tsimionescu 5y agoYou really shouldn't take obvious military-industrial grifting like this article to mean much of anything about the world.