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I'm student teaching in a third grade classroom, and I want to add a least a small counter: We are required to have two HEPA filters always running in the clas

I'm student teaching in a third grade classroom, and I want to add a least a small counter: We are required to have two HEPA filters always running in the classroom. They are loud. Combined with the fact that (1) children mumble, (2) the children have masks on, and (3) everyone is supposed to stay 3+ feet apart, it's quite hard to hear what a lot of kids are saying! I don't know what the right answer is, but what we have now really sucks!

plorkyeran 5y ago
The right answer is to buy better air purifiers, as good ones are nearly silent.
im_down_w_otp 5y ago
The point would be to have the central HVAC system be renovated to boost circulation with HEPA filters in the loop precisely so that you don't have to have two noisy things doing a middling job of a similar task in the classroom itself.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  > have the central HVAC system be renovated Speaking for many schools in heating dominated climates: renovate the what? (Many schools have forced water radiators, which are obviously not able to be retrofitted for effective air filtration.)
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    They probably have those with windows that open, too, thanks to the last pandemic.
    - roughly 5y ago
      Is that a thing? I hadn’t heard that
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- amluto 5y ago
  Or upgrade to MERV 16, which is nearly as good, much cheaper, and has much lower pressure loss.
nucleardog 5y ago
The obvious answer would be for the school to not rely on portable fans with filters on them, but instead actually upgrade the building you’re in.
kadoban 5y ago
There's quiet filters. I can barely hear the one(s) in my house, and they're just cheapo ones. Typically the key is to keep the fan speed reasonable, if you crank it up all the way almost any fan is going to be loud.
- ComputerGuru 5y ago
  The sound increases with the air pressure requirement. A true HEPA filter requires much greater air pressure than a typical air purifier filter.
  - kadoban 5y ago
    The ones I have are HEPA and the fan speed is still variable, and very quiet on low.
    - gpm 5y ago
      Can you recommend the model you have? The one I have is loud enough on it's lowest setting that I don't like leaving it on in the background :(
      - asdff 5y ago
        If you go on Amazon they have many HEPA models that advertise their decibel levels explicitly. If its listed as going down to the low 20s in decibels it will be almost completely silent.
      - kadoban 5y ago
        Sure, ya it's the Winix 5300. Bit confused on the price though, I remember it being significantly cheaper than the prices I see for it now. I do like it though (one note: I never use the "plasma wave" or whatever that is, just the filtering).
Gibbon1 5y ago
We have the Austin Air Healhmates at work. They are quiet. That said the real failure was the FDA not making getting the vaccine approved for your 3rd graders by the start of the school year. Frankly I don't know how those guys can look themselves in the mirror while they are shaving in the morning. I think vaccine approval for 5-11 year olds is coming in early November.
- nostrebored 5y ago
  Risk/reward here is absurd. This has never been about the safety of the children.
  - Gibbon1 5y ago
    Ending the pandemic is totally in the interest of the children.
    - nostrebored 5y ago
      Aside from extremely poor studies about long covid in kids: why?
      - Gibbon1 5y ago
        In the US about 120,000 children lost a primary care giver to covid. Is you are sane that counts for something.
      - throwaway984393 5y ago
        Ending the pandemic is in everyone's interests, as it would help repair the economy. Kids would be included in that as the economy changes how adults are able to care for kids. Kids have been separated from their parents due to increased evictions, their parents may not be able to work which means less money for food/clothing/services/healthcare, their parents & extended family are dying, their education has been impacted, and everyone has been going crazy from being cooped up with their families & not being able to play with friends or do extracurriculars.
clairity 5y ago
using air purifiers like that for corona is mostly theater anyway, since air purifiers don't filter the air evenly (despite the misnomer metric "air changes per hour") in a room. mostly, it filters really well near the purifiers and poorly everywhere else. this of course depends on the strength of the fan, but for most consumer air purifiers, it's likely a few feet radius at best. that's not to say that even that isn't worth having in an average bedroom, but in a classroom, it's likely not doing much at all. also, you're already distancing (which is doing nearly all the work there) and wearing masks (which is mostly theater in a distanced classroom as well). the virus isn't free-floating live in the classroom. most virus falls to the ground directly. of what's aloft, it becomes inactivated pretty quickly for all sorts of reasons (dessication, ph, temperature, radiation, etc.) and most likely won't land anywhere near a viable infection spot. so almost no active virus is filtered out before it has a chance to reach a moist, viable passageway in another person. even huge central commercial systems likely wouldn't filter out coronavirus before they die off or land somewhere harmlessly. it's another potential intervention that sounds plausible on the surface, but is mostly useless against covid.
- auslegung 5y ago
  So much of what you’ve said is wrong. Not saying you’re a terrible human being, but what we know about these things is still, unfortunately, not settled. Can you give citations for 1. Air purifiers don’t filter the air evenly (commercial ones since that’s the context). 2. Social distancing indoors is doing most of the work (ie is almost all that’s needed to stop the spread). 3. The virus isn’t free-floating live in the classroom
  - clairity 5y ago
    no, but you’re welcome to present your own perspective and rationale for discussion. research is ongoing, but we certainly have enough time and information to form and debate hypotheses by now. for instance, this study did not link air filtration to a reduction in transmission, only that a hepa+uv filter can reduce sars-cov-2 from known aerosolized air, basically an expected result in a controlled study (not “real-world”, as claimed).

plorkyeran 5y ago

The right answer is to buy better air purifiers, as good ones are nearly silent.

im_down_w_otp 5y ago

The point would be to have the central HVAC system be renovated to boost circulation with HEPA filters in the loop precisely so that you don't have to have two noisy things doing a middling job of a similar task in the classroom itself.

sokoloff 5y ago
> have the central HVAC system be renovated Speaking for many schools in heating dominated climates: renovate the what? (Many schools have forced water radiators, which are obviously not able to be retrofitted for effective air filtration.)
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  They probably have those with windows that open, too, thanks to the last pandemic.
  - roughly 5y ago
    Is that a thing? I hadn’t heard that
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
amluto 5y ago
Or upgrade to MERV 16, which is nearly as good, much cheaper, and has much lower pressure loss.

nucleardog 5y ago

The obvious answer would be for the school to not rely on portable fans with filters on them, but instead actually upgrade the building you’re in.

kadoban 5y ago

There's quiet filters. I can barely hear the one(s) in my house, and they're just cheapo ones. Typically the key is to keep the fan speed reasonable, if you crank it up all the way almost any fan is going to be loud.

ComputerGuru 5y ago
The sound increases with the air pressure requirement. A true HEPA filter requires much greater air pressure than a typical air purifier filter.
- kadoban 5y ago
  The ones I have are HEPA and the fan speed is still variable, and very quiet on low.
  - gpm 5y ago
    Can you recommend the model you have? The one I have is loud enough on it's lowest setting that I don't like leaving it on in the background :(
    - asdff 5y ago
      If you go on Amazon they have many HEPA models that advertise their decibel levels explicitly. If its listed as going down to the low 20s in decibels it will be almost completely silent.
    - kadoban 5y ago
      Sure, ya it's the Winix 5300. Bit confused on the price though, I remember it being significantly cheaper than the prices I see for it now. I do like it though (one note: I never use the "plasma wave" or whatever that is, just the filtering).

Gibbon1 5y ago

We have the Austin Air Healhmates at work. They are quiet. That said the real failure was the FDA not making getting the vaccine approved for your 3rd graders by the start of the school year. Frankly I don't know how those guys can look themselves in the mirror while they are shaving in the morning. I think vaccine approval for 5-11 year olds is coming in early November.

nostrebored 5y ago
Risk/reward here is absurd. This has never been about the safety of the children.
- Gibbon1 5y ago
  Ending the pandemic is totally in the interest of the children.
  - nostrebored 5y ago
    Aside from extremely poor studies about long covid in kids: why?
    - Gibbon1 5y ago
      In the US about 120,000 children lost a primary care giver to covid. Is you are sane that counts for something.
    - throwaway984393 5y ago
      Ending the pandemic is in everyone's interests, as it would help repair the economy. Kids would be included in that as the economy changes how adults are able to care for kids. Kids have been separated from their parents due to increased evictions, their parents may not be able to work which means less money for food/clothing/services/healthcare, their parents & extended family are dying, their education has been impacted, and everyone has been going crazy from being cooped up with their families & not being able to play with friends or do extracurriculars.

clairity 5y ago

using air purifiers like that for corona is mostly theater anyway, since air purifiers don't filter the air evenly (despite the misnomer metric "air changes per hour") in a room. mostly, it filters really well near the purifiers and poorly everywhere else. this of course depends on the strength of the fan, but for most consumer air purifiers, it's likely a few feet radius at best. that's not to say that even that isn't worth having in an average bedroom, but in a classroom, it's likely not doing much at all. also, you're already distancing (which is doing nearly all the work there) and wearing masks (which is mostly theater in a distanced classroom as well). the virus isn't free-floating live in the classroom. most virus falls to the ground directly. of what's aloft, it becomes inactivated pretty quickly for all sorts of reasons (dessication, ph, temperature, radiation, etc.) and most likely won't land anywhere near a viable infection spot. so almost no active virus is filtered out before it has a chance to reach a moist, viable passageway in another person. even huge central commercial systems likely wouldn't filter out coronavirus before they die off or land somewhere harmlessly. it's another potential intervention that sounds plausible on the surface, but is mostly useless against covid.

auslegung 5y ago
So much of what you’ve said is wrong. Not saying you’re a terrible human being, but what we know about these things is still, unfortunately, not settled. Can you give citations for 1. Air purifiers don’t filter the air evenly (commercial ones since that’s the context). 2. Social distancing indoors is doing most of the work (ie is almost all that’s needed to stop the spread). 3. The virus isn’t free-floating live in the classroom
- clairity 5y ago
  no, but you’re welcome to present your own perspective and rationale for discussion. research is ongoing, but we certainly have enough time and information to form and debate hypotheses by now. for instance, this study did not link air filtration to a reduction in transmission, only that a hepa+uv filter can reduce sars-cov-2 from known aerosolized air, basically an expected result in a controlled study (not “real-world”, as claimed).