5 ms·

I have believed this for about a year, based on things I was reading at that time. I thought this was widely known because as you point out, that’s kinda their

I have believed this for about a year, based on things I was reading at that time. I thought this was widely known because as you point out, that’s kinda their purpose. This article acknowledges that it was shown to be effective in lab settings and this is mainly about seeing those results in real life settings. But come on, if anyone finds something that’s probably effective based on science and isn’t going to negatively affect anyone, let’s shout it from the rooftops. If schools had been given funding to improve air circulation and filtration as well as a local gym now does after a $500,000 upgrade, I’m sure many would feel better about sending their children to school.

roughly 5y ago
With the added bonus that it would be better for the students’ health generally and would likely improve overall educational outcomes. An awful lot of our handling of COVID has been farcical (a year and a half in, we’re still relying on cloth masks and obsessively sanitizing surfaces), but in the case of schools it’s veered toward absurdist/tragic.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- seventytwo 5y ago
  The authorities have long since stopped recommending cloth masks and surface cleaning. Anyone still applying or recommending those methods isn’t up to date. There’s nothing farcical about recommending cloth masks and surface cleaning during the first few months of the pandemic when nothing was known about how the virus spread and when masks needed to be reserved for those on the front lines. The only farcical piece is how our society reacted to the recommendations of the experts.
  - henrikschroder 5y ago
    > The authorities have long since stopped recommending cloth masks That depends completely on where you live, there are plenty of places that still have indoor or outdoor mask mandates, despite them being completely useless.
    - seventytwo 5y ago
      Those local regulations may not be using the best recommendations, either. There’s been plenty of cases of locales not using the best guidance. My point remains.
  - roughly 5y ago
    > Anyone still applying or recommending those methods isn’t up to date. That's why it's farcical. In my area, you're required to wear your mask when you enter a restaurant and keep it on until you reach your table. Employees spend 8 hours breathing in the building through a cloth mask. Many places are still serving using single-use dishware to "stop the spread". Many people are still walking around with gloves on. I'm not saying these were bad recommendations at the time, but they've turned into talismans and rituals we do to ward off the evil spirit of COVID while people broadly go about their lives as before. Meanwhile, things like updating and repairing HVAC systems or restructuring buildings to maximize airflow, which both actually address COVID and have actual positive effects on health and wellbeing get short shrift, because we're wearing masks, so we're safe, and doing real work is expensive.
  - blub 5y ago
    If one looks at a typical FFP2 or FFP3 mask, they have two years written on them - 2001 and 2009 - which reference the years the standards for such masks were published. Now this pandemic started around 2020, which is more than decade later. So recommending cloth masks was and is indeed farcical. Doing it after recommending against mask usage is idiocy. And no, the world’s collective scientific understanding of masks didn’t change between 2020 and 2021.
- spaceisballer 5y ago
  Maybe in some places. Thankfully in our school district they took the time while kids were doing school from home to upgrade ventilation and filtration (I believe a large part through federal grants). Also following CDC guidance for schools (masking, distancing, etc). Our county isn’t exactly highly populated but thankfully the school system has been great. It’s stressful with the kids back in school yet there have been no outbreaks at the school but we only seem to average one notification a week if someone who was sick (but we’ve gotten no close contact notifications). Sure seems like people are getting COVID elsewhere and potentially bringing it into school versus it spreading in school.
Wowfunhappy 5y ago
I'm student teaching in a third grade classroom, and I want to add a least a small counter: We are required to have two HEPA filters always running in the classroom. They are loud. Combined with the fact that (1) children mumble, (2) the children have masks on, and (3) everyone is supposed to stay 3+ feet apart, it's quite hard to hear what a lot of kids are saying! I don't know what the right answer is, but what we have now really sucks!
- plorkyeran 5y ago
  The right answer is to buy better air purifiers, as good ones are nearly silent.
- im_down_w_otp 5y ago
  The point would be to have the central HVAC system be renovated to boost circulation with HEPA filters in the loop precisely so that you don't have to have two noisy things doing a middling job of a similar task in the classroom itself.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    > have the central HVAC system be renovated Speaking for many schools in heating dominated climates: renovate the what? (Many schools have forced water radiators, which are obviously not able to be retrofitted for effective air filtration.)
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      They probably have those with windows that open, too, thanks to the last pandemic.
      - roughly 5y ago
        Is that a thing? I hadn’t heard that
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
Gibbon1 5y ago
What bothers me is about 7-10 years ago there was a high quality paper linking transmission of flu to temperature, humidity, and air turn over. Depressingly the response was 'oh well nothing we can do cause too expensive' We'd be in a lot better shape if we'd decided to actually do something instead of falling back on the usual learned helplessness.

roughly 5y ago

With the added bonus that it would be better for the students’ health generally and would likely improve overall educational outcomes. An awful lot of our handling of COVID has been farcical (a year and a half in, we’re still relying on cloth masks and obsessively sanitizing surfaces), but in the case of schools it’s veered toward absurdist/tragic.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
seventytwo 5y ago
The authorities have long since stopped recommending cloth masks and surface cleaning. Anyone still applying or recommending those methods isn’t up to date. There’s nothing farcical about recommending cloth masks and surface cleaning during the first few months of the pandemic when nothing was known about how the virus spread and when masks needed to be reserved for those on the front lines. The only farcical piece is how our society reacted to the recommendations of the experts.
- henrikschroder 5y ago
  > The authorities have long since stopped recommending cloth masks That depends completely on where you live, there are plenty of places that still have indoor or outdoor mask mandates, despite them being completely useless.
  - seventytwo 5y ago
    Those local regulations may not be using the best recommendations, either. There’s been plenty of cases of locales not using the best guidance. My point remains.
- roughly 5y ago
  > Anyone still applying or recommending those methods isn’t up to date. That's why it's farcical. In my area, you're required to wear your mask when you enter a restaurant and keep it on until you reach your table. Employees spend 8 hours breathing in the building through a cloth mask. Many places are still serving using single-use dishware to "stop the spread". Many people are still walking around with gloves on. I'm not saying these were bad recommendations at the time, but they've turned into talismans and rituals we do to ward off the evil spirit of COVID while people broadly go about their lives as before. Meanwhile, things like updating and repairing HVAC systems or restructuring buildings to maximize airflow, which both actually address COVID and have actual positive effects on health and wellbeing get short shrift, because we're wearing masks, so we're safe, and doing real work is expensive.
- blub 5y ago
  If one looks at a typical FFP2 or FFP3 mask, they have two years written on them - 2001 and 2009 - which reference the years the standards for such masks were published. Now this pandemic started around 2020, which is more than decade later. So recommending cloth masks was and is indeed farcical. Doing it after recommending against mask usage is idiocy. And no, the world’s collective scientific understanding of masks didn’t change between 2020 and 2021.
spaceisballer 5y ago
Maybe in some places. Thankfully in our school district they took the time while kids were doing school from home to upgrade ventilation and filtration (I believe a large part through federal grants). Also following CDC guidance for schools (masking, distancing, etc). Our county isn’t exactly highly populated but thankfully the school system has been great. It’s stressful with the kids back in school yet there have been no outbreaks at the school but we only seem to average one notification a week if someone who was sick (but we’ve gotten no close contact notifications). Sure seems like people are getting COVID elsewhere and potentially bringing it into school versus it spreading in school.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

I'm student teaching in a third grade classroom, and I want to add a least a small counter: We are required to have two HEPA filters always running in the classroom. They are loud. Combined with the fact that (1) children mumble, (2) the children have masks on, and (3) everyone is supposed to stay 3+ feet apart, it's quite hard to hear what a lot of kids are saying! I don't know what the right answer is, but what we have now really sucks!

plorkyeran 5y ago
The right answer is to buy better air purifiers, as good ones are nearly silent.
im_down_w_otp 5y ago
The point would be to have the central HVAC system be renovated to boost circulation with HEPA filters in the loop precisely so that you don't have to have two noisy things doing a middling job of a similar task in the classroom itself.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  > have the central HVAC system be renovated Speaking for many schools in heating dominated climates: renovate the what? (Many schools have forced water radiators, which are obviously not able to be retrofitted for effective air filtration.)
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    They probably have those with windows that open, too, thanks to the last pandemic.
    - roughly 5y ago
      Is that a thing? I hadn’t heard that
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

Gibbon1 5y ago

What bothers me is about 7-10 years ago there was a high quality paper linking transmission of flu to temperature, humidity, and air turn over. Depressingly the response was 'oh well nothing we can do cause too expensive' We'd be in a lot better shape if we'd decided to actually do something instead of falling back on the usual learned helplessness.