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Not surprising? HEPA filters have been known to be able to filter viruses for some time; it's maybe the main reason they were invented? Not sure about that tho

Not surprising? HEPA filters have been known to be able to filter viruses for some time; it's maybe the main reason they were invented? Not sure about that though.

jpe90 5y ago
It's not surprising if you understand how HEPA filters work, the particulate sizes that they're effective for, and the particulate sizes of viruses. Most people are not familiar with one or more of those things, so these stories are worth amplifying to the end of the earth and back, so that we can be better prepared to deal with this pandemic and the next.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
spqr0a1 5y ago
HEPA filters were developed for radioactive dust during the Manhattan Project. Only several years later did the technology get declassified and started being used in biology and medicine.
auslegung 5y ago
I have believed this for about a year, based on things I was reading at that time. I thought this was widely known because as you point out, that’s kinda their purpose. This article acknowledges that it was shown to be effective in lab settings and this is mainly about seeing those results in real life settings. But come on, if anyone finds something that’s probably effective based on science and isn’t going to negatively affect anyone, let’s shout it from the rooftops. If schools had been given funding to improve air circulation and filtration as well as a local gym now does after a $500,000 upgrade, I’m sure many would feel better about sending their children to school.
- roughly 5y ago
  With the added bonus that it would be better for the students’ health generally and would likely improve overall educational outcomes. An awful lot of our handling of COVID has been farcical (a year and a half in, we’re still relying on cloth masks and obsessively sanitizing surfaces), but in the case of schools it’s veered toward absurdist/tragic.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - seventytwo 5y ago
    The authorities have long since stopped recommending cloth masks and surface cleaning. Anyone still applying or recommending those methods isn’t up to date. There’s nothing farcical about recommending cloth masks and surface cleaning during the first few months of the pandemic when nothing was known about how the virus spread and when masks needed to be reserved for those on the front lines. The only farcical piece is how our society reacted to the recommendations of the experts.
    - henrikschroder 5y ago
      > The authorities have long since stopped recommending cloth masks That depends completely on where you live, there are plenty of places that still have indoor or outdoor mask mandates, despite them being completely useless.
      - seventytwo 5y ago
        Those local regulations may not be using the best recommendations, either. There’s been plenty of cases of locales not using the best guidance. My point remains.
    - roughly 5y ago
      > Anyone still applying or recommending those methods isn’t up to date. That's why it's farcical. In my area, you're required to wear your mask when you enter a restaurant and keep it on until you reach your table. Employees spend 8 hours breathing in the building through a cloth mask. Many places are still serving using single-use dishware to "stop the spread". Many people are still walking around with gloves on. I'm not saying these were bad recommendations at the time, but they've turned into talismans and rituals we do to ward off the evil spirit of COVID while people broadly go about their lives as before. Meanwhile, things like updating and repairing HVAC systems or restructuring buildings to maximize airflow, which both actually address COVID and have actual positive effects on health and wellbeing get short shrift, because we're wearing masks, so we're safe, and doing real work is expensive.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  I'm student teaching in a third grade classroom, and I want to add a least a small counter: We are required to have two HEPA filters always running in the classroom. They are loud. Combined with the fact that (1) children mumble, (2) the children have masks on, and (3) everyone is supposed to stay 3+ feet apart, it's quite hard to hear what a lot of kids are saying! I don't know what the right answer is, but what we have now really sucks!
  - plorkyeran 5y ago
    The right answer is to buy better air purifiers, as good ones are nearly silent.
  - im_down_w_otp 5y ago
    The point would be to have the central HVAC system be renovated to boost circulation with HEPA filters in the loop precisely so that you don't have to have two noisy things doing a middling job of a similar task in the classroom itself.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      > have the central HVAC system be renovated Speaking for many schools in heating dominated climates: renovate the what? (Many schools have forced water radiators, which are obviously not able to be retrofitted for effective air filtration.)
      - selimthegrim 5y ago
        They probably have those with windows that open, too, thanks to the last pandemic.
        roughly 5y ago
        Is that a thing? I hadn’t heard that
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- Gibbon1 5y ago
  What bothers me is about 7-10 years ago there was a high quality paper linking transmission of flu to temperature, humidity, and air turn over. Depressingly the response was 'oh well nothing we can do cause too expensive' We'd be in a lot better shape if we'd decided to actually do something instead of falling back on the usual learned helplessness.

Not surprising? HEPA filters have been known to be able to filter viruses for some time; it's maybe the main reason they were invented? Not sure about that though.

jpe90 5y ago

It's not surprising if you understand how HEPA filters work, the particulate sizes that they're effective for, and the particulate sizes of viruses. Most people are not familiar with one or more of those things, so these stories are worth amplifying to the end of the earth and back, so that we can be better prepared to deal with this pandemic and the next.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

spqr0a1 5y ago

HEPA filters were developed for radioactive dust during the Manhattan Project. Only several years later did the technology get declassified and started being used in biology and medicine.

auslegung 5y ago

I have believed this for about a year, based on things I was reading at that time. I thought this was widely known because as you point out, that’s kinda their purpose. This article acknowledges that it was shown to be effective in lab settings and this is mainly about seeing those results in real life settings. But come on, if anyone finds something that’s probably effective based on science and isn’t going to negatively affect anyone, let’s shout it from the rooftops. If schools had been given funding to improve air circulation and filtration as well as a local gym now does after a $500,000 upgrade, I’m sure many would feel better about sending their children to school.

roughly 5y ago
With the added bonus that it would be better for the students’ health generally and would likely improve overall educational outcomes. An awful lot of our handling of COVID has been farcical (a year and a half in, we’re still relying on cloth masks and obsessively sanitizing surfaces), but in the case of schools it’s veered toward absurdist/tragic.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- seventytwo 5y ago
  The authorities have long since stopped recommending cloth masks and surface cleaning. Anyone still applying or recommending those methods isn’t up to date. There’s nothing farcical about recommending cloth masks and surface cleaning during the first few months of the pandemic when nothing was known about how the virus spread and when masks needed to be reserved for those on the front lines. The only farcical piece is how our society reacted to the recommendations of the experts.
  - henrikschroder 5y ago
    > The authorities have long since stopped recommending cloth masks That depends completely on where you live, there are plenty of places that still have indoor or outdoor mask mandates, despite them being completely useless.
    - seventytwo 5y ago
      Those local regulations may not be using the best recommendations, either. There’s been plenty of cases of locales not using the best guidance. My point remains.
  - roughly 5y ago
    > Anyone still applying or recommending those methods isn’t up to date. That's why it's farcical. In my area, you're required to wear your mask when you enter a restaurant and keep it on until you reach your table. Employees spend 8 hours breathing in the building through a cloth mask. Many places are still serving using single-use dishware to "stop the spread". Many people are still walking around with gloves on. I'm not saying these were bad recommendations at the time, but they've turned into talismans and rituals we do to ward off the evil spirit of COVID while people broadly go about their lives as before. Meanwhile, things like updating and repairing HVAC systems or restructuring buildings to maximize airflow, which both actually address COVID and have actual positive effects on health and wellbeing get short shrift, because we're wearing masks, so we're safe, and doing real work is expensive.
Wowfunhappy 5y ago
I'm student teaching in a third grade classroom, and I want to add a least a small counter: We are required to have two HEPA filters always running in the classroom. They are loud. Combined with the fact that (1) children mumble, (2) the children have masks on, and (3) everyone is supposed to stay 3+ feet apart, it's quite hard to hear what a lot of kids are saying! I don't know what the right answer is, but what we have now really sucks!
- plorkyeran 5y ago
  The right answer is to buy better air purifiers, as good ones are nearly silent.
- im_down_w_otp 5y ago
  The point would be to have the central HVAC system be renovated to boost circulation with HEPA filters in the loop precisely so that you don't have to have two noisy things doing a middling job of a similar task in the classroom itself.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    > have the central HVAC system be renovated Speaking for many schools in heating dominated climates: renovate the what? (Many schools have forced water radiators, which are obviously not able to be retrofitted for effective air filtration.)
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      They probably have those with windows that open, too, thanks to the last pandemic.
      - roughly 5y ago
        Is that a thing? I hadn’t heard that
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
Gibbon1 5y ago
What bothers me is about 7-10 years ago there was a high quality paper linking transmission of flu to temperature, humidity, and air turn over. Depressingly the response was 'oh well nothing we can do cause too expensive' We'd be in a lot better shape if we'd decided to actually do something instead of falling back on the usual learned helplessness.