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Kaiser Permanente suspends 2,200 employees who didn't get Covid vaccine
- cratermoon 5y agoAlternate headline: 99.3% of Kaiser Permanente's 304,000 employees vaccinated, 0.7% unvaccinated placed on leave
- MattGaiser 5y agoIndeed. 2200 seems like a lot until you remember the scale of these places.
- hunterb123 5y ago2200 is a lot if you remember they are people.
- aappleby 5y ago700000+ is also a lot
- hunterb123 5y agoso by firing these people everywhere we're bringing those who died from covid back from the dead? cool.
- cratermoon 5y agoNo, but we're helping protect the next quarter million.
- hunterb123 5y agoWhatever helps you sleep at night. Those families still exist, they just don't have jobs now. They'll still go to the same grocery stores you go to, they'll still interact with the world. People will still die, vaccinated or not. Now we just have more unemployed people, wunderbar!
- cratermoon 5y ago> they just don't have jobs now. The workers had a choice, though, get vaccinated or lose the job. It's not like the spouses and children who are now without a breadwinner because the employed parent was among the thousands of dead.
- angelzen 5y agoThe risk of covid death for a working age parent in 45-55 is about 1:1000. More interesting, the risk of covid death out of all deaths in said age group is 12.5%. Maybe adults have a right to decide for themselves whether a 12.5% increase in their death risk is worth whatever other considerents they might have? Can we please stop acting like covid is some sort of a guaranteed death sentence, even if older and unvaccinated?
- cratermoon 5y ago> their death risk Such a selfish answer. What about the risk to others around them if they carry it?
- nradov 5y agoVaccinated people are also a risk to those around them. A lower risk, but still significant and with declining difference over time. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y I encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can. But in the long run everyone can expect to be exposed multiple times throughout their lives regardless of how many others are vaccinated. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...
- psychometry 5y agoGood riddance. It's telling that most of the employees losing their jobs over this across the country are almost never physicians and researchers (and only occasionally nurses). It's mostly support staff: people who often have no scientific or medical training and/or no college degree. That should tell you a lot about how justifiable their die-hard belief is.
- SV_BubbleTime 5y agoI don’t know about your must obey tactics, it’s just going to make more hardline people. Someone should just send them a link to the three and five year safety data of these vaccines, fight misinformation with information.
- vnchr 5y agoThree and five years safety data of vaccines developed last year?
- jikbd 5y agoThat’s the point.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y agoFYI, Vaccine side effects outside of the first 2 months are pretty much unheard of https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item/12143-three-things-to-know-about-the-long-term-side-effects-of-covid-vaccines https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item/12143-three-things-to-k... I am not going to say that's impossible. I am going to say that there would be Nobel prize in medicine waiting if 2-year effects are both observed and explained.
- listenallyall 5y agoJust curious, how many babies have been born from two vaccinated parents? How many studies have been done to ensure there are no side effects on the conceived child and/or the mother?
- rfriedman99 5y agoAlternate headline: "Players of stupid game win stupid prizes: Kaiser cuts 2,200 dimmest employees"
- mywittyname 5y agoIs the difference between suspension and layoffs that a layoff can collect unemployment insurance while a suspension can't? Does suspension lead to fire with cause?
- smitop 5y agoThe difference is that workers are only suspended until they comply with the vaccination requirements: the affected workers are still employed, just on an unpaid leave. Laid off employees who later comply with the vaccination requirements would need to re-apply for their job and go through the normal application process.
- dragonwriter 5y ago> Is the difference between suspension and layoffs that a layoff can collect unemployment insurance while a suspension can't? Lay off can mean different things, which may or may not qualify for unemployment, but is generally a definite, permanent, or conditioned on external events (not employee actions) loss of employment. This is conditioned on response to the vaccination requirement, though im December it becomes permanent (and is characterized in the article as being “laid off” at that point.) > Does suspension lead to fire with cause While the article calls it a lay off, yes, this looks like it ends with a termination for failure to meet requirements, which is generally a cause that makes unemployment unavailable.
- TurkishPoptart 5y agoIsn't 99.3% enough for herd immunity? I really wish the US would recognize natural immunity from those recovered from Covid instead of filtering out everyone who doesn't want to subscribe to a endless 2x/year vaccine passport program, which seems to be more beneficial to Big Pharma than the average person.
- Arnt 5y agoHerd immunity only applies when the people in the set seldom/never meet people outside the set. If the people in the set go home and meet others once per day, then that's not herd immunity. And a lawyer may reasonably argue that some patient definitely should get $256 million, and the hospital may reasonably want to avoid that liability.
- angelzen 5y agoThis logic is disconnected from reality: * There is no reasonable way to pinpoint the cause of a covid infection to a single person. * There is no reasonable assumption that an unvaccinated person is infected with covid at all times. * There is no reasonable assumption that only unvaccinated persons can transmit covid.
- Arnt 5y agoWell, let's see. When I was in hospital a few years ago, I met a total of perhaps 15 people during a week. Pinpointing the cause of an infection would have required testing those 15. Also, there's good evidence that the vaccines dampen transmission. Random quote (from Nature): "…people who become infected with the Delta variant are less likely to pass the virus to their close contacts if they have already had a COVID-19 vaccine than if they haven’t1. But that protective effect is relatively small, and…" and basically the effect is small but measurably present.
- lamontcg 5y agoFalse dichotomy argument. I'm perfectly happy if you get vaccinated at least once if you've been positive before, and largely leave any future boosters up to the individual. Although since we're talking about heathcare in the title article, direct patient care should probably be vaccinated yearly. That's about it though.