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The inconvenient truth about NYC G&T program is that it is 40% Asian. Asians have dominated the G&T program, even "stealing" spots from white kids where 43% of

The inconvenient truth about NYC G&T program is that it is 40% Asian. Asians have dominated the G&T program, even "stealing" spots from white kids where 43% of NYC is white, but only 35% of spots taken by white kids. And Asians are dominating the NYC G&T program NOT because of hundreds of years of systemic racism, NOT because Asians wrote the admissions tests an inbueing cultural bias, and NOT by cheating or bribing admissions. And in NYC, Asians are the poorest demographic by a large margin. This makes the entire story extremely inconvenient for activists who want to say that the program is racist and discriminates against the economically disadvantaged. And yet, they somehow are able to get the entire program trashed because of racism against Asians is perfectly accepted in 2021. Activists have no problems openly discriminating against Asians because whites, blacks and Latinos think of "Americans" as whites, blacks and Latinos. Asians are considered foreigners. So when a prestigious program is dominated by Asians, something must obviously wrong, right? Activists have gutted admissions at Thomas Jefferson high school in Fairfax, VA, arguably the top public high school in the US because it had a high percentage of Asians. Lowell High school admissions in SF, a top 100 high school, underwent the exact same thing because of its high percentage of Asians. Now NYC is doing the same thing. At Harvard, the admissions department openly discriminates against Asians by saying they lack "courage" or less "likeable". Imagine the outrage if this happened to Blacks, but because it happened to Asians it's considered okay because Asians are unAmerican.

peter_retief 5y ago
It seems outrageously unfair.
christophilus 5y ago
One of the first openly racist interactions I ever witnessed in the US was a white guy hurling slurs at a Vietnamese friend of mine. Asians are definitely in a strange predicament here.
- swiley 5y ago
  It's almost like you can be racist to anyone.
silicon2401 5y ago
> in NYC, Asians are the poorest demographic by a large margin. Do you have evidence for this? Asians are by far the richest minority in the US so I was surprised by this statement. > Activists have no problems openly discriminating against Asians because whites, blacks and Latinos think of "Americans" as whites, blacks and Latinos. Asians are considered foreigners. So when a prestigious program is dominated by Asians, something must obviously wrong, right? Diversity means increasing representation. In a situation with limited resources, increasing representation for all means decreasing representation for some. This is the natural conclusion to pushing for equality/representation.
- darthvoldemort 5y ago
  http://www.roosevelthouse.hunter.cuny.edu/?forum-post=researching-asian-poverty-new-york http://www.roosevelthouse.hunter.cuny.edu/?forum-post=resear...
  - notwedtm 5y ago
    This links to https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/opportunity/pdf/20_poverty_measure_report https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/opportunity/pdf/20_poverty_measu... as the original source. On page 28 of this file, you get to the actual statistics. While Asian poverty is certainly high, it is about the same as other minorities, and has been decreasing since 2014.
    - darthvoldemort 5y ago
      No, the report says that Asians poverty is underreported in the data. EDIT: I think that the report shows that Hispanics in 2020 have a higher percentage of poverty than Asians, but it seems like a lot of the articles showing Asians had the highest poverty rates came from before 2017. It looks like in the last 5 years prior to 2020, Asians had improved the poverty rates. Regardless even in 2020, Asian poverty in NYC was 22%, Black poverty was 19%, Hispanic poverty was 24% and White poverty was 13%.
      - 5y ago
threatofrain 5y ago
> Activists have gutted admissions at Thomas Jefferson high school in Fairfax, VA, arguably the top public high school in the US because it had a high percentage of Asians. Lowell High school admissions in SF, a top 100 high school, underwent the exact same thing because of its high percentage of Asians. Now NYC is doing the same thing. At Harvard, the admissions department openly discriminates against Asians by saying they lack "courage" or less "likeable". Imagine the outrage if this happened to Blacks, but because it happened to Asians it's considered okay because Asians are unAmerican. Also notable is that California is finalizing a proposal to eliminate faster tracking in mathematics, arguing that it is a promotion of white nationalist ideology. Calculus may only be taken in the senior year under these proposals, and Algebra is to be de-emphasized as the primary math target of middle school.¹ I found it quite striking that in a long proposal focused on racial justice in math, there is plenty of mention of white nationalism but exactly zero mention of the word "Asian". [1]: https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11...
- FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
  I would have been diagnosed with ADD and medicated if I hadn't been put on a faster track. Luckily the teacher correctly observed to my parents that I was just bored. I don't know what would have happened to me in a system without that track. I probably would have been a much less happy child.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    It went the other way for me. Got the ADD diagnosis and put me into classes with kids with downs syndrome and other profound disabilities. Let me tell you, that isn't great for your social life. I ended up leaving as soon as I was legally allowed and got a job. This supposed ADD disappeared once I got into the real world and was given actual problems to solve. I think they did it mostly to keep their test scores up. I have no faith in the education system as a result.
- swiley 5y ago
  >Math promotes white nationalism Jesus they've completely lost their minds!
superflit2 5y ago
The real thing about the asians is: There is a whole narrative that people are equal and have same capabilities. Anyone can be a sport start if trains enough or a super scientist if study enough. Then looking at statistics it is not true. The same people with cognitive dissonance claim that because social factors, etc. Usually whites get a better treatment thus because and only because of that they have better representation in certain areas (only certain). Then a lot of money is poured in programs to fix that. Because the narrative says all people are equal. The opposing narrative says that IQ is genetic and it reflects on career that needs IQ so it really does not matter it will always reflect that. The two narratives are fighting: social-economics vs genetics and if its a fair fight. Came the asians. Poor, non-english skills, living in bad neighborhoods. They start getting advanced classes more than white. They advance more. Then looking at statistics we can see Asians have higher IQ and looking on Advanced programs we have Asian as the largest, Whites as second and others as third. Bang one narrative suffers a blow. Then they start changing rules. "Asians are White". "We need to make it more equal" meaning removing asians from programs. While these boths narrative fight we as whole suffer. As I want the best players on Soccer I want the best players on Medical field or Math. I really don't care if the whole Math department is Asian. I care about the results to the society.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  It's not I.Q., it's culture. Asians have a significant cultural focus on education. But then again so do a number of Black African minorities like the Igbo, Ashanti and Yoruba. So even "race" is a complete red herring.
  - fdanconia21 5y ago
    Culture, 100% is the reason. But I feel the real problem here is how we CANNOT talk about the negative effects of culture. Growing up black/Mexican I was made fun of by blacks and Mexicans for being smart, acting white etc. and I know I'm not the only one who experienced this. Intelligence was not valued in black culture when I was growing up and I'd argue is still not.
seneca 5y ago
> Activists have no problems openly discriminating against Asians because whites, blacks and Latinos think of "Americans" as whites, blacks and Latinos. Asians are considered foreigners. I don't think this is true. Asians are being punished because they're successful, and their existence bucks the narrative the blank-slate activists want to push. Sure, as a group they're being punished, but it's not because anyone sees them as exceptionally foreign. It's just because the top has to be brought down in order to achieve equality of outcomes and the fanatics pushing these things don't care who they harm to achieve their goals.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >I don't think this is true. Asians are being punished because they're successful, and their existence bucks the narrative the blank-slate activists want to push. No. Everyone is being punished, not just Asians. Ditching G/T programs is going about this completely backwards, and hurts all students regardless of ethnicity or melanin content. The problem is that schools in poor and minority neighborhoods suck. Let's fix that problem and the rest will take care of itself.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Part of the problem is, as you mention, the schools. But the other, much harder part of the problem, is the homes. If your parents aren’t engaged in parenting and you come from poverty, you are at a disadvantage that in no way can be fixed by the time you spend at your school each day. You’re treading water at best. If you want poor kids to do better, you have to improve their home life. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2528798/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2528798/
    - nobody9999 5y ago
      >Part of the problem is, as you mention, the schools. But the other, much harder part of the problem, is the homes. If your parents aren’t engaged in parenting and you come from poverty, you are at a disadvantage that in no way can be fixed by the time you spend at your school each day. You’re treading water at best. A fair point. Although I came to the conclusion when I was in school that while the impact of your home life is important, providing a positive initial experience with school and having high expectations for scholastic performance can do a lot to improve educational outcomes. Perhaps even enough impact to counteract the lack of parental involvement/motivation for education for some.
moron4hire 5y ago
I don't know what you're reading, but Thomas Jefferson High School is not in Fairfax. It's here in Alexandria. Fairfax would be half an hour drive for me and I live on the extreme, western edge of Alexandria. There's a whole, other city in between (Annandale). It'd be like saying something was in Brooklyn when it's actually in Queens. Virginia is a weird state. Fairfax and Alexandria are classified as "independent cities", which exist in parallel to and outside of counties. There are only 41 independent cities in the US: Baltimore, MD; St. Louis, MO; Carson City, NV, and then 38 more in Virginia. The signficance is that independent cities can't levy income tax, but have to pay for their own schools and roads. We make revenue through property taxes (not just land/houses, but also cars! That's a whole other story) and business licenses. The state then calculates how much it will contribute to our school funding based on our supposed "ability to pay". Between property values and transit issues here, there are a likely more "property owners" in Fairfax than here in Alexandria. Alexandria is much more of a bedroom community for DC, whereas people in Fairfax spread more across NoVA for work. The state sees the higher property values in Alexandria, and our higher population, and thinks "oh, they are loaded, they don't need so much". But we're not. We're a town of renters. All the property is owned by DC and NYC property developers, which got sweetheart tax break incentives to build here. You can readily see it when visiting. Fairfax's roads are nicer. Their public buildings are newer and larger. They have several, gorgeous, gigantic public parks with stuff like kiddie train rides around the perimeter. Fairfax is apparently rolling in cash. And Alexandria can't even fix a foot bridge across a 20-foot wide creek bed. So we just don't have the money to fund our schools anymore. Hell, my own kid's school is one of the better ones in town and they can't even afford to have enough bus drivers and substitute teachers for the year. It's garden variety bad administration over the last 15 years, not anti-Asian sentiment.
- darthvoldemort 5y ago
  My friend lives in Fairfax and her school district feeds into TJ, so I assumed it was in Fairfax. This is a front-and-center issue for her.
  - moron4hire 5y ago
    My apologies. I've since learned that TJ is a Fairfax County School Division school. TJ is smack dab in the middle of Alexandria. I didn't realize how unrelated Virginia's school division system is to its municipal structure. I didn't grow up here, so it seems absurd to have a completely different county's schools in our city.
chuckee 5y ago
> 43% of NYC is white, but only 35% of spots taken by white kids. The NYT deftly avoids mentioning this by stating it as > Though about 70 percent of the roughly 1 million public school students in New York are Black and Latino, about 75 percent of the roughly 16,000 students in gifted elementary school classes are white or Asian American.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  So they are robbing 4000 Black and Latino kids of the opportunity to participate in a program specifically tailored for overachievers like them?
  - stoned 5y ago
    What is an overachiever? How much should a person achieve?
vmception 5y ago
I don't really get that undercurrent to the decision making processes here. Yes, NYC's specialized public schools have become heavily disproportionately filled by its Asian and Asian-American population. The competitive forces and consolidation does a disservice to them and the rest of the admitted population as well. When a 4.2 GPA overachieving student can't get selected to good universities or other opportunities because of all the 4.5 GPA students at the same school, that undermines the point of the system. And that system also has the side effect of exacerbating segregation? And you want to defend it by making it about other Americans focusing specifically on disrupting Asian achievement? I understand your sentiment is and has been shared and represents a collective assumption with some groups in NYC, but its a huge stretch! The other perspective is that it just doesn't accomplish externalities well. Mix the schools up, let cultural overachievers be dispersed instead of consolidated, the mindshare will help the overall local population better. I agree that public schools should be about education, so focus on fixing where the education occurs. Try to get better teachers and materials to other parts of the city! Yes, if your child is trying to go through school before any of this better infrastructure is set up, I can see how defensive one would be about it, I can see why the low hanging fruit of "they dont want us/my race to win" is the goto argument, but all I can say is.. welcome to the rest of the country? Shitty public schools is the most American thing ever!
- btheshoe 5y ago
  That's not how cultural overachievers work though. Group overachievers together and they form a stronger culture of achievement. Split them up and they stop achieving.
  - vmception 5y ago
    might need a patch for that. the rest of America requires a support system and some distribution of self motivated exist through any set up
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > Yes, NYC's specialized public schools have become heavily disproportionately filled by its Asian and Asian-American population. Have they? The admission criteria is based on scores. The school is disproportionately filled with over-achievers who happen to be Asian. > When a 4.2 GPA overachieving student can't get selected to good universities or other opportunities because of all the 4.5 GPA students at the same school How is that so? > Mix the schools up, let cultural overachievers be dispersed instead of consolidated How is that supposed to help anyone? > all I can say is.. welcome to the rest of the country? Shitty public schools is the most American thing ever! Because someone eats junk food I should have to eat it too?
carabiner 5y ago
> And in NYC, Asians are the poorest demographic by a large margin. False. Asians are the second highest income demographic, second only to whites: https://wherewelive.cityofnewyork.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/employment-figure-10.png https://wherewelive.cityofnewyork.us/wp-content/uploads/2019... So you can still make a case that the tests for G&T measure the wealth available for test preparation.
- ng12 5y ago
  In NYC Asians have the second-highest rate of poverty behind Hispanics. https://www1.nyc.gov/site/opportunity/poverty-in-nyc/data-tool.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/opportunity/poverty-in-nyc/data-to...
otoburb 5y ago
Another inconvenient truth is that there is a great example of an integrated G&T school student body in East Harlem whose racial profile [1] closely matches the racial distribution of applicants for the G&T kindergarden test[2]. Two problems arise when trying to raise the profile of the school: 1) This is one of the only good examples of integration, but nobody seems to be interested in learning how to replicate this model high performance and integration across the rest of NYC's schools. 2) Draws unwelcome attention to the pipeline problem whereby some ethnic groups are underrepresented compared to the city's ethnic makeup when applying for the test. [1] https://www.publicschoolreview.com/tag-young-scholars-profile https://www.publicschoolreview.com/tag-young-scholars-profil... (scroll down to "All Ethnic Groups") [2] https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/1c478c_f14e1d13df45444c883bbf6590129bd7.pdf https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/1c478c_f14e1d13df45444c883bbf... (page 26)

peter_retief 5y ago

It seems outrageously unfair.

christophilus 5y ago

One of the first openly racist interactions I ever witnessed in the US was a white guy hurling slurs at a Vietnamese friend of mine. Asians are definitely in a strange predicament here.

swiley 5y ago
It's almost like you can be racist to anyone.

silicon2401 5y ago

> in NYC, Asians are the poorest demographic by a large margin. Do you have evidence for this? Asians are by far the richest minority in the US so I was surprised by this statement. > Activists have no problems openly discriminating against Asians because whites, blacks and Latinos think of "Americans" as whites, blacks and Latinos. Asians are considered foreigners. So when a prestigious program is dominated by Asians, something must obviously wrong, right? Diversity means increasing representation. In a situation with limited resources, increasing representation for all means decreasing representation for some. This is the natural conclusion to pushing for equality/representation.

darthvoldemort 5y ago
http://www.roosevelthouse.hunter.cuny.edu/?forum-post=researching-asian-poverty-new-york http://www.roosevelthouse.hunter.cuny.edu/?forum-post=resear...
- notwedtm 5y ago
  This links to https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/opportunity/pdf/20_poverty_measure_report https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/opportunity/pdf/20_poverty_measu... as the original source. On page 28 of this file, you get to the actual statistics. While Asian poverty is certainly high, it is about the same as other minorities, and has been decreasing since 2014.
  - darthvoldemort 5y ago
    No, the report says that Asians poverty is underreported in the data. EDIT: I think that the report shows that Hispanics in 2020 have a higher percentage of poverty than Asians, but it seems like a lot of the articles showing Asians had the highest poverty rates came from before 2017. It looks like in the last 5 years prior to 2020, Asians had improved the poverty rates. Regardless even in 2020, Asian poverty in NYC was 22%, Black poverty was 19%, Hispanic poverty was 24% and White poverty was 13%.
    - 5y ago

threatofrain 5y ago

> Activists have gutted admissions at Thomas Jefferson high school in Fairfax, VA, arguably the top public high school in the US because it had a high percentage of Asians. Lowell High school admissions in SF, a top 100 high school, underwent the exact same thing because of its high percentage of Asians. Now NYC is doing the same thing. At Harvard, the admissions department openly discriminates against Asians by saying they lack "courage" or less "likeable". Imagine the outrage if this happened to Blacks, but because it happened to Asians it's considered okay because Asians are unAmerican. Also notable is that California is finalizing a proposal to eliminate faster tracking in mathematics, arguing that it is a promotion of white nationalist ideology. Calculus may only be taken in the senior year under these proposals, and Algebra is to be de-emphasized as the primary math target of middle school.¹ I found it quite striking that in a long proposal focused on racial justice in math, there is plenty of mention of white nationalism but exactly zero mention of the word "Asian". [1]: https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11...

FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
I would have been diagnosed with ADD and medicated if I hadn't been put on a faster track. Luckily the teacher correctly observed to my parents that I was just bored. I don't know what would have happened to me in a system without that track. I probably would have been a much less happy child.
- willcipriano 5y ago
  It went the other way for me. Got the ADD diagnosis and put me into classes with kids with downs syndrome and other profound disabilities. Let me tell you, that isn't great for your social life. I ended up leaving as soon as I was legally allowed and got a job. This supposed ADD disappeared once I got into the real world and was given actual problems to solve. I think they did it mostly to keep their test scores up. I have no faith in the education system as a result.
swiley 5y ago
>Math promotes white nationalism Jesus they've completely lost their minds!

superflit2 5y ago

The real thing about the asians is: There is a whole narrative that people are equal and have same capabilities. Anyone can be a sport start if trains enough or a super scientist if study enough. Then looking at statistics it is not true. The same people with cognitive dissonance claim that because social factors, etc. Usually whites get a better treatment thus because and only because of that they have better representation in certain areas (only certain). Then a lot of money is poured in programs to fix that. Because the narrative says all people are equal. The opposing narrative says that IQ is genetic and it reflects on career that needs IQ so it really does not matter it will always reflect that. The two narratives are fighting: social-economics vs genetics and if its a fair fight. Came the asians. Poor, non-english skills, living in bad neighborhoods. They start getting advanced classes more than white. They advance more. Then looking at statistics we can see Asians have higher IQ and looking on Advanced programs we have Asian as the largest, Whites as second and others as third. Bang one narrative suffers a blow. Then they start changing rules. "Asians are White". "We need to make it more equal" meaning removing asians from programs. While these boths narrative fight we as whole suffer. As I want the best players on Soccer I want the best players on Medical field or Math. I really don't care if the whole Math department is Asian. I care about the results to the society.

zozbot234 5y ago
It's not I.Q., it's culture. Asians have a significant cultural focus on education. But then again so do a number of Black African minorities like the Igbo, Ashanti and Yoruba. So even "race" is a complete red herring.
- fdanconia21 5y ago
  Culture, 100% is the reason. But I feel the real problem here is how we CANNOT talk about the negative effects of culture. Growing up black/Mexican I was made fun of by blacks and Mexicans for being smart, acting white etc. and I know I'm not the only one who experienced this. Intelligence was not valued in black culture when I was growing up and I'd argue is still not.

seneca 5y ago

> Activists have no problems openly discriminating against Asians because whites, blacks and Latinos think of "Americans" as whites, blacks and Latinos. Asians are considered foreigners. I don't think this is true. Asians are being punished because they're successful, and their existence bucks the narrative the blank-slate activists want to push. Sure, as a group they're being punished, but it's not because anyone sees them as exceptionally foreign. It's just because the top has to be brought down in order to achieve equality of outcomes and the fanatics pushing these things don't care who they harm to achieve their goals.

nobody9999 5y ago
>I don't think this is true. Asians are being punished because they're successful, and their existence bucks the narrative the blank-slate activists want to push. No. Everyone is being punished, not just Asians. Ditching G/T programs is going about this completely backwards, and hurts all students regardless of ethnicity or melanin content. The problem is that schools in poor and minority neighborhoods suck. Let's fix that problem and the rest will take care of itself.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Part of the problem is, as you mention, the schools. But the other, much harder part of the problem, is the homes. If your parents aren’t engaged in parenting and you come from poverty, you are at a disadvantage that in no way can be fixed by the time you spend at your school each day. You’re treading water at best. If you want poor kids to do better, you have to improve their home life. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2528798/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2528798/
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >Part of the problem is, as you mention, the schools. But the other, much harder part of the problem, is the homes. If your parents aren’t engaged in parenting and you come from poverty, you are at a disadvantage that in no way can be fixed by the time you spend at your school each day. You’re treading water at best. A fair point. Although I came to the conclusion when I was in school that while the impact of your home life is important, providing a positive initial experience with school and having high expectations for scholastic performance can do a lot to improve educational outcomes. Perhaps even enough impact to counteract the lack of parental involvement/motivation for education for some.

moron4hire 5y ago

I don't know what you're reading, but Thomas Jefferson High School is not in Fairfax. It's here in Alexandria. Fairfax would be half an hour drive for me and I live on the extreme, western edge of Alexandria. There's a whole, other city in between (Annandale). It'd be like saying something was in Brooklyn when it's actually in Queens. Virginia is a weird state. Fairfax and Alexandria are classified as "independent cities", which exist in parallel to and outside of counties. There are only 41 independent cities in the US: Baltimore, MD; St. Louis, MO; Carson City, NV, and then 38 more in Virginia. The signficance is that independent cities can't levy income tax, but have to pay for their own schools and roads. We make revenue through property taxes (not just land/houses, but also cars! That's a whole other story) and business licenses. The state then calculates how much it will contribute to our school funding based on our supposed "ability to pay". Between property values and transit issues here, there are a likely more "property owners" in Fairfax than here in Alexandria. Alexandria is much more of a bedroom community for DC, whereas people in Fairfax spread more across NoVA for work. The state sees the higher property values in Alexandria, and our higher population, and thinks "oh, they are loaded, they don't need so much". But we're not. We're a town of renters. All the property is owned by DC and NYC property developers, which got sweetheart tax break incentives to build here. You can readily see it when visiting. Fairfax's roads are nicer. Their public buildings are newer and larger. They have several, gorgeous, gigantic public parks with stuff like kiddie train rides around the perimeter. Fairfax is apparently rolling in cash. And Alexandria can't even fix a foot bridge across a 20-foot wide creek bed. So we just don't have the money to fund our schools anymore. Hell, my own kid's school is one of the better ones in town and they can't even afford to have enough bus drivers and substitute teachers for the year. It's garden variety bad administration over the last 15 years, not anti-Asian sentiment.

darthvoldemort 5y ago
My friend lives in Fairfax and her school district feeds into TJ, so I assumed it was in Fairfax. This is a front-and-center issue for her.
- moron4hire 5y ago
  My apologies. I've since learned that TJ is a Fairfax County School Division school. TJ is smack dab in the middle of Alexandria. I didn't realize how unrelated Virginia's school division system is to its municipal structure. I didn't grow up here, so it seems absurd to have a completely different county's schools in our city.

chuckee 5y ago

> 43% of NYC is white, but only 35% of spots taken by white kids. The NYT deftly avoids mentioning this by stating it as > Though about 70 percent of the roughly 1 million public school students in New York are Black and Latino, about 75 percent of the roughly 16,000 students in gifted elementary school classes are white or Asian American.

908B64B197 5y ago
So they are robbing 4000 Black and Latino kids of the opportunity to participate in a program specifically tailored for overachievers like them?
- stoned 5y ago
  What is an overachiever? How much should a person achieve?

vmception 5y ago

I don't really get that undercurrent to the decision making processes here. Yes, NYC's specialized public schools have become heavily disproportionately filled by its Asian and Asian-American population. The competitive forces and consolidation does a disservice to them and the rest of the admitted population as well. When a 4.2 GPA overachieving student can't get selected to good universities or other opportunities because of all the 4.5 GPA students at the same school, that undermines the point of the system. And that system also has the side effect of exacerbating segregation? And you want to defend it by making it about other Americans focusing specifically on disrupting Asian achievement? I understand your sentiment is and has been shared and represents a collective assumption with some groups in NYC, but its a huge stretch! The other perspective is that it just doesn't accomplish externalities well. Mix the schools up, let cultural overachievers be dispersed instead of consolidated, the mindshare will help the overall local population better. I agree that public schools should be about education, so focus on fixing where the education occurs. Try to get better teachers and materials to other parts of the city! Yes, if your child is trying to go through school before any of this better infrastructure is set up, I can see how defensive one would be about it, I can see why the low hanging fruit of "they dont want us/my race to win" is the goto argument, but all I can say is.. welcome to the rest of the country? Shitty public schools is the most American thing ever!

btheshoe 5y ago
That's not how cultural overachievers work though. Group overachievers together and they form a stronger culture of achievement. Split them up and they stop achieving.
- vmception 5y ago
  might need a patch for that. the rest of America requires a support system and some distribution of self motivated exist through any set up
908B64B197 5y ago
> Yes, NYC's specialized public schools have become heavily disproportionately filled by its Asian and Asian-American population. Have they? The admission criteria is based on scores. The school is disproportionately filled with over-achievers who happen to be Asian. > When a 4.2 GPA overachieving student can't get selected to good universities or other opportunities because of all the 4.5 GPA students at the same school How is that so? > Mix the schools up, let cultural overachievers be dispersed instead of consolidated How is that supposed to help anyone? > all I can say is.. welcome to the rest of the country? Shitty public schools is the most American thing ever! Because someone eats junk food I should have to eat it too?

carabiner 5y ago

> And in NYC, Asians are the poorest demographic by a large margin. False. Asians are the second highest income demographic, second only to whites: https://wherewelive.cityofnewyork.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/employment-figure-10.png https://wherewelive.cityofnewyork.us/wp-content/uploads/2019... So you can still make a case that the tests for G&T measure the wealth available for test preparation.

ng12 5y ago
In NYC Asians have the second-highest rate of poverty behind Hispanics. https://www1.nyc.gov/site/opportunity/poverty-in-nyc/data-tool.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/opportunity/poverty-in-nyc/data-to...

otoburb 5y ago

Another inconvenient truth is that there is a great example of an integrated G&T school student body in East Harlem whose racial profile [1] closely matches the racial distribution of applicants for the G&T kindergarden test[2]. Two problems arise when trying to raise the profile of the school: 1) This is one of the only good examples of integration, but nobody seems to be interested in learning how to replicate this model high performance and integration across the rest of NYC's schools. 2) Draws unwelcome attention to the pipeline problem whereby some ethnic groups are underrepresented compared to the city's ethnic makeup when applying for the test. [1] https://www.publicschoolreview.com/tag-young-scholars-profile https://www.publicschoolreview.com/tag-young-scholars-profil... (scroll down to "All Ethnic Groups") [2] https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/1c478c_f14e1d13df45444c883bbf6590129bd7.pdf https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/1c478c_f14e1d13df45444c883bbf... (page 26)