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Does Tesla even have a radar?

namrog84 5y ago
I dont think so. I thought their whole gimmick or goal was to drive entirely by cameras and nothing else. Because humans only have eyes. Though just speculation and no source.
- taylortbb 5y ago
  Due to the current chip shortage they've moved to a vision-only system, as they had difficulty getting radar units in the quantity required. Until recently however, all Teslas had radar since ~2014. The high profile crashes are mostly/all radar-enabled vehicles. The thing about automotive radar, and this isn't just Tesla, is that stationary objects are normally excluded. Otherwise the system brakes for things like overhead signs that have high radar reflectivity. Stopped cars, concrete barriers, etc are all basically invisible to most automotive radar. Tesla also isn't the only manufacturer taking the vision approach. Subaru, for example, was doing vision-only emergency braking in 2016.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    > The thing about automotive radar, and this isn't just Tesla, is that stationary objects are normally excluded. Otherwise the system brakes for things like overhead signs that have high radar reflectivity. Stopped cars, concrete barriers, etc are all basically invisible to most automotive radar. I believe most automotive radars in the last few years are FMCW exactly to accommodate adaptive cruise control.
  - kalleboo 5y ago
    When we bought our used Suzuki, one of the differences to another car we looked at was that ours had stereo vision AEB and the other had radar - one of the selling points by the dealer was that the camera version could detect stopped objects, which I always figured was half the point of AEB.
- spurgu 5y ago
  I'm quite sure I've heard something pretty close to those words from Musk himself in some video.
- adfrhgeaq5hy 5y ago
  Humans only have eyes... and the most powerful supercomputer in the world between their ears. The goal is to cut costs and keep shipping during the chip shortage. Ignore the excuses.
  - bradknowles 5y ago
    Humans also have ears. And a sense of touch. And a sense of motion. And that supercomputer between the ears has decades of experience doing sensor fusion amongst all the various inputs down to the level of milliseconds of variation, and decades of experience of rising in cars and knowing what they feel is safe versus what is not, and presumably at least months of experience of control behind the wheel. Tesla doesn’t have a lot of any of those things.
    - adfrhgeaq5hy 5y ago
      To my knowledge, they don't even have binocular vision. For several angles there is only one camera. Even where there are multiple cameras, they are clustered together and so of limited use for binocular vision. It seems there are multiple cameras to improve range and FoV rather than depth perception. So it's like a small animal with one eye closed.
- Griffinsauce 5y ago
  > Because humans only have eyes. This is the most ridiculous line of reasoning I've heard in a long time. Wow.
- llampx 5y ago
  Humans only have eyes? So Teslas can smell the milk and throw it out if its gone bad? Or listen to a faraway sound and know that its getting closer at an alarming or not-alarming rate? Or feel the road getting harsher and understand that the GPS is incorrect?
  - perryizgr8 5y ago
    > So Teslas can smell the milk and throw it out if its gone bad? Cars do not need that skill. > Or listen to a faraway sound and know that its getting closer at an alarming or not-alarming rate? I'm sure the car has multiple microphones, it just needs the brains to process the input. > Or feel the road getting harsher and understand that the GPS is incorrect? Again, I am sure the car has multiple G sensors, accelerometers and gyroscopes. It just needs the smarts to process the input.
    - ddalex 5y ago
      > Cars do not need that skill. As a driver, I can certainly sense my car smelling funny if something goes wrong :)
beamatronic 5y ago
Yes, at least some do, and they recently disabled it in a recent software update
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Any info as to why? Simply because it is redundant or is there a technical problem with it?
  - paulryanrogers 5y ago
    IIRC there's concern of crosstalk as it becomes more common. So relying on it in a radar-noisy environment would be risky.
    - resoluteteeth 5y ago
      Or they just don't want to maintain two different versions of their software for cars with and without it.
MBCook 5y ago
They removed it on new models early this year.
delfinom 5y ago
Many manufacturers are removing radar in their latest model spins fwiw.
- mey 5y ago
  Suddenly my 2016 car just got much more valuable to me.
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    Except you are at the whim and mercy of Tesla to keep providing updated support using lidar. They will probably just not use the lidar any more and merely use the cameras(which you also have) like they are on the 2021 Model 3/Y

I dont think so. I thought their whole gimmick or goal was to drive entirely by cameras and nothing else. Because humans only have eyes. Though just speculation and no source.

taylortbb 5y ago
Due to the current chip shortage they've moved to a vision-only system, as they had difficulty getting radar units in the quantity required. Until recently however, all Teslas had radar since ~2014. The high profile crashes are mostly/all radar-enabled vehicles. The thing about automotive radar, and this isn't just Tesla, is that stationary objects are normally excluded. Otherwise the system brakes for things like overhead signs that have high radar reflectivity. Stopped cars, concrete barriers, etc are all basically invisible to most automotive radar. Tesla also isn't the only manufacturer taking the vision approach. Subaru, for example, was doing vision-only emergency braking in 2016.
- baybal2 5y ago
  > The thing about automotive radar, and this isn't just Tesla, is that stationary objects are normally excluded. Otherwise the system brakes for things like overhead signs that have high radar reflectivity. Stopped cars, concrete barriers, etc are all basically invisible to most automotive radar. I believe most automotive radars in the last few years are FMCW exactly to accommodate adaptive cruise control.
- kalleboo 5y ago
  When we bought our used Suzuki, one of the differences to another car we looked at was that ours had stereo vision AEB and the other had radar - one of the selling points by the dealer was that the camera version could detect stopped objects, which I always figured was half the point of AEB.
spurgu 5y ago
I'm quite sure I've heard something pretty close to those words from Musk himself in some video.
adfrhgeaq5hy 5y ago
Humans only have eyes... and the most powerful supercomputer in the world between their ears. The goal is to cut costs and keep shipping during the chip shortage. Ignore the excuses.
- bradknowles 5y ago
  Humans also have ears. And a sense of touch. And a sense of motion. And that supercomputer between the ears has decades of experience doing sensor fusion amongst all the various inputs down to the level of milliseconds of variation, and decades of experience of rising in cars and knowing what they feel is safe versus what is not, and presumably at least months of experience of control behind the wheel. Tesla doesn’t have a lot of any of those things.
  - adfrhgeaq5hy 5y ago
    To my knowledge, they don't even have binocular vision. For several angles there is only one camera. Even where there are multiple cameras, they are clustered together and so of limited use for binocular vision. It seems there are multiple cameras to improve range and FoV rather than depth perception. So it's like a small animal with one eye closed.
Griffinsauce 5y ago
> Because humans only have eyes. This is the most ridiculous line of reasoning I've heard in a long time. Wow.
llampx 5y ago
Humans only have eyes? So Teslas can smell the milk and throw it out if its gone bad? Or listen to a faraway sound and know that its getting closer at an alarming or not-alarming rate? Or feel the road getting harsher and understand that the GPS is incorrect?
- perryizgr8 5y ago
  > So Teslas can smell the milk and throw it out if its gone bad? Cars do not need that skill. > Or listen to a faraway sound and know that its getting closer at an alarming or not-alarming rate? I'm sure the car has multiple microphones, it just needs the brains to process the input. > Or feel the road getting harsher and understand that the GPS is incorrect? Again, I am sure the car has multiple G sensors, accelerometers and gyroscopes. It just needs the smarts to process the input.
  - ddalex 5y ago
    > Cars do not need that skill. As a driver, I can certainly sense my car smelling funny if something goes wrong :)

beamatronic 5y ago

Yes, at least some do, and they recently disabled it in a recent software update

raxxorrax 5y ago
Any info as to why? Simply because it is redundant or is there a technical problem with it?
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  IIRC there's concern of crosstalk as it becomes more common. So relying on it in a radar-noisy environment would be risky.
  - resoluteteeth 5y ago
    Or they just don't want to maintain two different versions of their software for cars with and without it.

MBCook 5y ago

They removed it on new models early this year.

delfinom 5y ago

Many manufacturers are removing radar in their latest model spins fwiw.

mey 5y ago
Suddenly my 2016 car just got much more valuable to me.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  Except you are at the whim and mercy of Tesla to keep providing updated support using lidar. They will probably just not use the lidar any more and merely use the cameras(which you also have) like they are on the 2021 Model 3/Y