5 ms·

I had a brief stint as a bike owner and the whole culture around it is maddening. If I want a car, I go to a dealership and I can find a bunch of packages and

by n8cpdx 5y ago

I had a brief stint as a bike owner and the whole culture around it is maddening. If I want a car, I go to a dealership and I can find a bunch of packages and customizations and there's a dealer to help. The cars have all sorts of technology and it's well integrated. You don't have to buy a car and decide if you want the bright headlights or the bad headlights and then pay extra to have them installed. There's so much that a bike should/could have: automatic emergency braking, turn signals, automatic lighting, regenerative braking, gps/anti theft tracking, speedometor, rear radar, etc. You can get most of those things, but then you have to install them all, there's no standard, each has to be charged separately. Bike nerds ask about your derailleur and nonsense about tires and how the bike should be totally custom, and how turn signals are a stupid idea because you can just balance one-handed while waving and mirrors are bad because you can just look over your shoulder and it's all just a lot. And then they have the nerve to ask why more people don't bike? Why don't more people bike? Because the entire biking community, culture, and market is built around making it hard and dangerous. Edit: my point is that the biking community should embrace electronics/batteries since they're necessary for safety lights anyway, and use that as the foundation to build an integrated consumer product. If you want the world to switch to biking (I do) you can't treat it as a hobbyist market. Car manufacturers figured this out long ago.

owlninja 5y ago
I am never trying to break any speed records, but I wouldn't want to attach so many devices to my bicycle.
greggturkington 5y ago
Fair gripes, although bikes have "dealerships" too that will typically help you select and maintain your steed. The problem with lighted turn signals is that motorists don't expect them, and don't look for them. Pointing with your hand and head are just more safe and effective. > how the bike should be totally custom Ignore them. It should be what suits you, what makes you feel comfortable and safe when you ride. > Why don't more people bike? There's also not a lot of infrastructure outside of major cities (in the US). Unsafe for cyclists, annoying (at best) for motorists. > the entire biking community, culture Let's not paint too broadly, there are plenty of elitists, but big parts of the cycling community are inclusive; community rides, community maintenance co-ops, things like that.
fundamental 5y ago
Bikes are optimized for cost and ease of riding (i.e. less weight when possible), so bikes avoiding bells and whistles by default makes perfect sense to me. If you add on too much then the bike shop prices themselves out of the market. Bike ridership IMO is much more heavily determined based upon how bikable a space is. If it's an environment where you don't have access to safe roads/trails, nearby destinations, or places to lock your bike at a destination no one will bike. The bikes themselves may have quirks, but that's rarely the complaints people voice in the wild from my experience.
tjr225 5y ago
Bicycles are beautiful because of their simplicity. This is inherent and god help us if your vision of the bicycle becomes the norm. That would be like wanting Vim to come bundled with all of the functionality of Pycharm by default. All of the things you want added to a bicycle are relatively cheap and easy to install on your own if you want them. If you don’t you pay an expert at your local bike shop to do it for you. In fact, if you were in the process of buying a bike shop from an LBS you could tell them all of the things you wanted. They will literally build whatever bike you want lol. But if the trivial amount of practice that it takes to “balance” while gesturing a turn signal is too much for you, maybe bicycling just isn’t your thing. If getting accustomed to navigating in Vim is too much for you, maybe you just need an IDE, instead.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  > Bicycles are beautiful because of their simplicity. and also the way that essentially a single idea can cover so many bases... high speed racing, hauling materials, going shopping, travelling with everything you need for thousands of miles, bombing down mountainsides, climbing up huge mountains ... all this from essentially one simple idea. So wonderful!
Eric_WVGG 5y ago
I understand where you're coming from, but also disagree. Cycling has a lot of cliques. There’s an absolute world of difference between a Rapha boutique and a hole-in-the-wall that primarily services deliverymen. Unfortunately, most cycling shops are staffed by people who can't see past their own walls. (I'm a "fixed gear hipster doofus" who very much wants to select every part and service it myself. The notion of glomming "emergency braking" (this is actually a crazy dangerous idea), turn signals, etc. is deeply unappealing to me.) There actually are bike shops that run exactly like car dealerships, and the number is growing all the time as the market extends in the direction of riders like you. Specifically, I would have urged you to find a Vanmoof retailer.
- Eric_WVGG 5y ago
  btw, just a point by point on your wishlist… - automatic emergency braking: this is a terrible idea. I can't imagine any circumstance where ones bike would suddenly stop underneath them and not send the rider head-first into whatever made the bike stop. - turn signals: This exists but I suspect that in practice you'd find it less useful than you expect. Drivers and cyclists simply don't expect to see them, so they'd be mostly confused or annoyed. - automatic lighting: I agree. More importantly, lighting should be integrated into most bicycle frames - regenerative braking: this exists - gps/anti theft tracking: this exists - speedometor: this exists, but if you're not an actual racer… why? - rear radar: this sounds bizarre… but rear view mirrors actually are commonplace You really walked into the wrong bicycle shop. I hope the experience didn't put you off cycling, it's the best regardless of your approach.
  - ashtonbaker 5y ago
    Rear radar also exists, Garmin Varia for example. I'd trust a helmet-mounted mirror more. The other thing about this overall vision for bicycles is that everyone has different needs. This sounds like a wishlist for a commuter e-bike, but it's not at all what road cyclists are looking for. And most of this does exist as an integrated package, from various ebike manufacturers. It's just expensive and heavy, and adds a lot of maintenance overhead for not much practical benefit.
zcmack 5y ago
they're called motorcycles, just go to a dealership to have someone sell you those bells and whistles instead.
microtonal 5y ago
Why don't more people bike? Because the entire biking community, culture, and market is built around making it hard and dangerous. No, it is because in most countries road infrastructure is built for cars, not bikes. To make life even more dangerous for cyclists, the laws do not protect them enough. Here in The Netherlands we have many separate bike likes, inside and outside cities, so-called bike highways, etc. Some city centers are even largely car-free (e.g. Groningen). E.g. from home to my office (~3-4km) roughly 70% of the stretch is on dedicated bike roads. On average, Dutch citizens [1] make 250-300 bike rides per year, cycling 880km on average. Most people I know cycle to work, do groceries by bike, etc. We do not have automatic emergency braking, turn signals, regenerative breaking, anti-theft tracking (though it becomes more common with e-biks), rear radar, etc. First you have to make cycling safe by providing separate bike lanes where possible (preferably physically separated). Secondly, you have to change the culture. Most people in other countries do not even consider cycling to work as an option. Emphasize the health benefits, etc. You also need to educate drivers on how drive safely around cyclists (this is less of a problem here, since most car drivers are also cyclists, and tend to be aware). [1] https://www.fietsersbond.nl/ons-werk/mobiliteit/fietsen-cijfers/ https://www.fietsersbond.nl/ons-werk/mobiliteit/fietsen-cijf...
- aksss 5y ago
  The simpler answer is probably that biking requires physical effort and exposure to elements, before one ever encounters issues of road traffic, or gear optimization for safety. No doubt some combination of all these factors are at play. Neither of you are wrong about identifying issues, but presuming that a materially greater portion of the population would start biking if we could only solve this one aspect of law or gear seems to ignore the broader trend of people also disfavoring exercise and the need to be looking good at work (not sweaty or looking like the dog the cat dragged in).
  - n8cpdx 5y ago
    Specifically all the issues I raised apply in an American city that is relatively good for biking. The bike lanes are still on the road, and drivers still swerve into them, so I want heads up on that. Its also physically difficult to get comfortable biking if you're not used to it. That's fine, but when the roads are like mad max post-COVID, you don't want to be wobbling when you're trying to signal. Yes, the roads need to have bike lanes, but at least in portland, there's a stunning lack of reflection on why more people aren't taking advantage of them. E-bikes probably help with the appearance part. It is just weird seeing a market where the entire culture is so hostile to innovation or improvement. The biking community should really be trying to remove all the barriers and not just saying it will get better when every road has a bike lane, because it won't. Heck, even trying to find a class to learn how to bike is a massive pain. Each town and city has a different standard for hand signals (which I think refutes the claim that drivers would be completely unable to recognize or understand a turn signal on a bike) and the laws are different everywhere around things like lights and bells.
bodo11 5y ago
While I agree that more standardisation would be beneficial, especially regarding electronics(!), the rest of the bike is fairly standardized (wheel / bottom bracket / pedal screw / steering column diameter etc.) . Unfortunately, I think the introduction of electronics via ebikes and other "new" technologies for the bike are diluting that standardisation in my perception. For another view point of why biking may be shit in your area, I invite you to watch a few videos of this channel: https://youtu.be/ORzNZUeUHAM https://youtu.be/ORzNZUeUHAM
- microtonal 5y ago
  Unfortunately, I think the introduction of electronics via ebikes and other "new" technologies for the bike are diluting that standardisation in my perception. You would be surprised. My wife's e-bike was stolen without its battery. When she bought a new e-bike (of a different brand), she could just purchase it without a battery and use her old one. (Lots of e-bikes in Western Europe use Bosch batteries/motors.)
  - ashtonbaker 5y ago
    But does Bosch use a common standard for batteries, or is it just common enough that this worked out? (serious question)
    - bodo11 5y ago
      I am not of the persuasion that a for-profit corporation can maintain a standard. A standard in my mind is an industry-wide effort to create an open, low baseline and barrier of entry without proprietariness. Even if 90% of bikes have a Bosch motor, that's not a standard if it's not open.
      - wolverine876 5y ago
        PDF? I'm sure we can think of more ...
      - et-al 5y ago
cbdumas 5y ago
The fact that ABS isn't standard on more bikes (especially e-bikes) is crazy to me.
tejohnso 5y ago
> Why don't more people bike? Because the entire biking community, culture, and market is built around making it hard and dangerous. I think it has more to do with the lack of biking infrastructure. Instead bikes are forced to share car infrastructure or pedestrian infrastructure (where available). This makes it very difficult to get serious about cycling for daily use. Most times you're stuck competing with 3000+ lb death machines flying past within 2ft of you.
et-al 5y ago
In Germany, all new bikes are required to have lights and bells. This is also why all the good dynamo-powered lights were from Germany for the longest time. I think this should be adopted here in the US, especially because separated bike lanes from car traffic are rare. The other electronics you mentioned are nice-to-haves, but nowhere near as critical. At some point the line between a bicycle and scooter/motorcycle starts to blur.
- walshemj 5y ago
  The use case for dynamo lights went away once LED lighting arrived - they add to much resistance.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    Depends. Dynamos can also provide a nice little 5W charging system for USB accessories. If you're touring on a bicycle, a dynamo is a nice thing to have, and if you have it, you may as well power the lights with it. Also allows incredible lighting design since there doesn't need to be any significant battery storage in the lighting unit itself.
    - walshemj 5y ago
      Ah I had forgotten about touring
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
I think this a little distorted, for a reason that applies to cars too. So let's start there. You have decided you want a vehicle. You head to the first dealer on your local "Golden Mile" strip. The dealer (because they are nice) starts asking you about what you're looking for. Turns out that you want to be able to haul rocks and drive on mountain forest roads in the snow. Unfortunately, you're at a Honda dealer, and they have nothing for you. You head towards the local Ford dealer but along the way change your mind about what you're looking for. The Ford dealer asks similar questions, but now you're looking for a 50mpg sub-compact with essentially zero maintainance and significant interior space. The Ford dealer grimaces. Now, getting more realistic, we turn to bicycles. They may (mostly) all have two wheels, pedals, handlebars and a chain, but in reality there's as much of a gap in functionality between an enduro mountain bike and a time trial/triathlon bike as there is between the Ford F150 and a Honda Fit (Jazz for HN's european contingent). And into that gap there are: * touring bicycles * commuter/shopping bicycles * BMX bikes (which some set of young people still seem to like) * full suspension mountain bikes * hard-tail mountain/gravel bikes I own a lot of bicycles, and if you told me that I had to have any of the features you've mentioned above on my custom built carbon tri bike, I'd be angry. Conversely, if you told me that I could not put fenders on my gravel/shopping Surly Straggler, I'd laugh you out of the room. I'm never going to need lights on my full suspension bike, because I never ride it in the dark, and I never need to lock it up. I don't want GPS system Foo on any of my bikes, because I prefer GPS system Bar. Ditto for the speedometer. Now, is there a market for "the generalist bicycle", perhaps with all or most of the features you've mentioned? Maybe. Visiting western European countries suggests that there could be, but it might be function of urban design, land use, transportation planning etc., and not really a function of the bike itself. I agree with you that cycling's status as a hobbyist market probably does do something to limit its appeal. I just don't think that the effect is that strong, and the main reasons people don't ride a bicycle is not its confusing which accessories to get.
nradov 5y ago
Putting automatic emergency braking on a bike would be wildly dangerous and just completely stupid. When you have limited traction available it's often safer to steer around an obstacle instead of braking. Automatic braking would be likely to throw the rider off over the handlebars. Garmin bike computers support turn signals with dual rear lights but I've never seen anyone use that feature. If you're turning near other traffic then you have to slow down anyway so sticking an arm out to signal isn't a problem. A lot of riders already have multiple battery powered devices including bike computers, Di2 shifters, headlights, tail lights, power meters, radar, etc. But battery powered devices are expensive and heavy; many cyclists don't need or want some of them. Some people never ride at night and don't necessarily need lights. Bike computers and lights which support the ANT+ standard have automatic lighting. The better bike computers have GPS tracking, anti-theft alarms, and support rear radars. Most bikes don't come with a computer because they're expensive and cyclists prefer to choose their own. If you buy a bike with accessories from a local store then they'll be happy to assemble everything for a nominal fee. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/698001 https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/698001
hinkley 5y ago
> automatic emergency braking If you put automatic braking on a bicycle, you're going to cause an emergency. Braking force is not the problem. Hasn't been for 25 years. Emergency braking on a bicycle requires the rider to shift their body weight to avoid catapulting themselves off the front of the bike and directly into whatever they were trying to avoid. There is no way to achieve minimum stopping distance without substantial cooperation from the rider. The center of gravity is simply too high. You might be able to use powered brakes on a trike or recumbent, but not on any upright bicycle. I haven't had a real bike in ages and even back then it was entirely possible to launch myself off the bike using only two fingers, from the hoods, which offer terrible leverage. If anything Shimano made the brakes too strong.

by n8cpdx 5y ago

owlninja 5y ago

I am never trying to break any speed records, but I wouldn't want to attach so many devices to my bicycle.

greggturkington 5y ago

Fair gripes, although bikes have "dealerships" too that will typically help you select and maintain your steed. The problem with lighted turn signals is that motorists don't expect them, and don't look for them. Pointing with your hand and head are just more safe and effective. > how the bike should be totally custom Ignore them. It should be what suits you, what makes you feel comfortable and safe when you ride. > Why don't more people bike? There's also not a lot of infrastructure outside of major cities (in the US). Unsafe for cyclists, annoying (at best) for motorists. > the entire biking community, culture Let's not paint too broadly, there are plenty of elitists, but big parts of the cycling community are inclusive; community rides, community maintenance co-ops, things like that.

fundamental 5y ago

Bikes are optimized for cost and ease of riding (i.e. less weight when possible), so bikes avoiding bells and whistles by default makes perfect sense to me. If you add on too much then the bike shop prices themselves out of the market. Bike ridership IMO is much more heavily determined based upon how bikable a space is. If it's an environment where you don't have access to safe roads/trails, nearby destinations, or places to lock your bike at a destination no one will bike. The bikes themselves may have quirks, but that's rarely the complaints people voice in the wild from my experience.

tjr225 5y ago

Bicycles are beautiful because of their simplicity. This is inherent and god help us if your vision of the bicycle becomes the norm. That would be like wanting Vim to come bundled with all of the functionality of Pycharm by default. All of the things you want added to a bicycle are relatively cheap and easy to install on your own if you want them. If you don’t you pay an expert at your local bike shop to do it for you. In fact, if you were in the process of buying a bike shop from an LBS you could tell them all of the things you wanted. They will literally build whatever bike you want lol. But if the trivial amount of practice that it takes to “balance” while gesturing a turn signal is too much for you, maybe bicycling just isn’t your thing. If getting accustomed to navigating in Vim is too much for you, maybe you just need an IDE, instead.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
> Bicycles are beautiful because of their simplicity. and also the way that essentially a single idea can cover so many bases... high speed racing, hauling materials, going shopping, travelling with everything you need for thousands of miles, bombing down mountainsides, climbing up huge mountains ... all this from essentially one simple idea. So wonderful!

Eric_WVGG 5y ago

I understand where you're coming from, but also disagree. Cycling has a lot of cliques. There’s an absolute world of difference between a Rapha boutique and a hole-in-the-wall that primarily services deliverymen. Unfortunately, most cycling shops are staffed by people who can't see past their own walls. (I'm a "fixed gear hipster doofus" who very much wants to select every part and service it myself. The notion of glomming "emergency braking" (this is actually a crazy dangerous idea), turn signals, etc. is deeply unappealing to me.) There actually are bike shops that run exactly like car dealerships, and the number is growing all the time as the market extends in the direction of riders like you. Specifically, I would have urged you to find a Vanmoof retailer.

Eric_WVGG 5y ago
btw, just a point by point on your wishlist… - automatic emergency braking: this is a terrible idea. I can't imagine any circumstance where ones bike would suddenly stop underneath them and not send the rider head-first into whatever made the bike stop. - turn signals: This exists but I suspect that in practice you'd find it less useful than you expect. Drivers and cyclists simply don't expect to see them, so they'd be mostly confused or annoyed. - automatic lighting: I agree. More importantly, lighting should be integrated into most bicycle frames - regenerative braking: this exists - gps/anti theft tracking: this exists - speedometor: this exists, but if you're not an actual racer… why? - rear radar: this sounds bizarre… but rear view mirrors actually are commonplace You really walked into the wrong bicycle shop. I hope the experience didn't put you off cycling, it's the best regardless of your approach.
- ashtonbaker 5y ago
  Rear radar also exists, Garmin Varia for example. I'd trust a helmet-mounted mirror more. The other thing about this overall vision for bicycles is that everyone has different needs. This sounds like a wishlist for a commuter e-bike, but it's not at all what road cyclists are looking for. And most of this does exist as an integrated package, from various ebike manufacturers. It's just expensive and heavy, and adds a lot of maintenance overhead for not much practical benefit.

zcmack 5y ago

they're called motorcycles, just go to a dealership to have someone sell you those bells and whistles instead.

microtonal 5y ago

Why don't more people bike? Because the entire biking community, culture, and market is built around making it hard and dangerous. No, it is because in most countries road infrastructure is built for cars, not bikes. To make life even more dangerous for cyclists, the laws do not protect them enough. Here in The Netherlands we have many separate bike likes, inside and outside cities, so-called bike highways, etc. Some city centers are even largely car-free (e.g. Groningen). E.g. from home to my office (~3-4km) roughly 70% of the stretch is on dedicated bike roads. On average, Dutch citizens [1] make 250-300 bike rides per year, cycling 880km on average. Most people I know cycle to work, do groceries by bike, etc. We do not have automatic emergency braking, turn signals, regenerative breaking, anti-theft tracking (though it becomes more common with e-biks), rear radar, etc. First you have to make cycling safe by providing separate bike lanes where possible (preferably physically separated). Secondly, you have to change the culture. Most people in other countries do not even consider cycling to work as an option. Emphasize the health benefits, etc. You also need to educate drivers on how drive safely around cyclists (this is less of a problem here, since most car drivers are also cyclists, and tend to be aware). [1] https://www.fietsersbond.nl/ons-werk/mobiliteit/fietsen-cijfers/ https://www.fietsersbond.nl/ons-werk/mobiliteit/fietsen-cijf...

aksss 5y ago
The simpler answer is probably that biking requires physical effort and exposure to elements, before one ever encounters issues of road traffic, or gear optimization for safety. No doubt some combination of all these factors are at play. Neither of you are wrong about identifying issues, but presuming that a materially greater portion of the population would start biking if we could only solve this one aspect of law or gear seems to ignore the broader trend of people also disfavoring exercise and the need to be looking good at work (not sweaty or looking like the dog the cat dragged in).
- n8cpdx 5y ago
  Specifically all the issues I raised apply in an American city that is relatively good for biking. The bike lanes are still on the road, and drivers still swerve into them, so I want heads up on that. Its also physically difficult to get comfortable biking if you're not used to it. That's fine, but when the roads are like mad max post-COVID, you don't want to be wobbling when you're trying to signal. Yes, the roads need to have bike lanes, but at least in portland, there's a stunning lack of reflection on why more people aren't taking advantage of them. E-bikes probably help with the appearance part. It is just weird seeing a market where the entire culture is so hostile to innovation or improvement. The biking community should really be trying to remove all the barriers and not just saying it will get better when every road has a bike lane, because it won't. Heck, even trying to find a class to learn how to bike is a massive pain. Each town and city has a different standard for hand signals (which I think refutes the claim that drivers would be completely unable to recognize or understand a turn signal on a bike) and the laws are different everywhere around things like lights and bells.

bodo11 5y ago

While I agree that more standardisation would be beneficial, especially regarding electronics(!), the rest of the bike is fairly standardized (wheel / bottom bracket / pedal screw / steering column diameter etc.) . Unfortunately, I think the introduction of electronics via ebikes and other "new" technologies for the bike are diluting that standardisation in my perception. For another view point of why biking may be shit in your area, I invite you to watch a few videos of this channel: https://youtu.be/ORzNZUeUHAM https://youtu.be/ORzNZUeUHAM

microtonal 5y ago
Unfortunately, I think the introduction of electronics via ebikes and other "new" technologies for the bike are diluting that standardisation in my perception. You would be surprised. My wife's e-bike was stolen without its battery. When she bought a new e-bike (of a different brand), she could just purchase it without a battery and use her old one. (Lots of e-bikes in Western Europe use Bosch batteries/motors.)
- ashtonbaker 5y ago
  But does Bosch use a common standard for batteries, or is it just common enough that this worked out? (serious question)
  - bodo11 5y ago
    I am not of the persuasion that a for-profit corporation can maintain a standard. A standard in my mind is an industry-wide effort to create an open, low baseline and barrier of entry without proprietariness. Even if 90% of bikes have a Bosch motor, that's not a standard if it's not open.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      PDF? I'm sure we can think of more ...
    - et-al 5y ago

cbdumas 5y ago

The fact that ABS isn't standard on more bikes (especially e-bikes) is crazy to me.

tejohnso 5y ago

> Why don't more people bike? Because the entire biking community, culture, and market is built around making it hard and dangerous. I think it has more to do with the lack of biking infrastructure. Instead bikes are forced to share car infrastructure or pedestrian infrastructure (where available). This makes it very difficult to get serious about cycling for daily use. Most times you're stuck competing with 3000+ lb death machines flying past within 2ft of you.

et-al 5y ago

In Germany, all new bikes are required to have lights and bells. This is also why all the good dynamo-powered lights were from Germany for the longest time. I think this should be adopted here in the US, especially because separated bike lanes from car traffic are rare. The other electronics you mentioned are nice-to-haves, but nowhere near as critical. At some point the line between a bicycle and scooter/motorcycle starts to blur.

walshemj 5y ago
The use case for dynamo lights went away once LED lighting arrived - they add to much resistance.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  Depends. Dynamos can also provide a nice little 5W charging system for USB accessories. If you're touring on a bicycle, a dynamo is a nice thing to have, and if you have it, you may as well power the lights with it. Also allows incredible lighting design since there doesn't need to be any significant battery storage in the lighting unit itself.
  - walshemj 5y ago
    Ah I had forgotten about touring

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

I think this a little distorted, for a reason that applies to cars too. So let's start there. You have decided you want a vehicle. You head to the first dealer on your local "Golden Mile" strip. The dealer (because they are nice) starts asking you about what you're looking for. Turns out that you want to be able to haul rocks and drive on mountain forest roads in the snow. Unfortunately, you're at a Honda dealer, and they have nothing for you. You head towards the local Ford dealer but along the way change your mind about what you're looking for. The Ford dealer asks similar questions, but now you're looking for a 50mpg sub-compact with essentially zero maintainance and significant interior space. The Ford dealer grimaces. Now, getting more realistic, we turn to bicycles. They may (mostly) all have two wheels, pedals, handlebars and a chain, but in reality there's as much of a gap in functionality between an enduro mountain bike and a time trial/triathlon bike as there is between the Ford F150 and a Honda Fit (Jazz for HN's european contingent). And into that gap there are: * touring bicycles * commuter/shopping bicycles * BMX bikes (which some set of young people still seem to like) * full suspension mountain bikes * hard-tail mountain/gravel bikes I own a lot of bicycles, and if you told me that I had to have any of the features you've mentioned above on my custom built carbon tri bike, I'd be angry. Conversely, if you told me that I could not put fenders on my gravel/shopping Surly Straggler, I'd laugh you out of the room. I'm never going to need lights on my full suspension bike, because I never ride it in the dark, and I never need to lock it up. I don't want GPS system Foo on any of my bikes, because I prefer GPS system Bar. Ditto for the speedometer. Now, is there a market for "the generalist bicycle", perhaps with all or most of the features you've mentioned? Maybe. Visiting western European countries suggests that there could be, but it might be function of urban design, land use, transportation planning etc., and not really a function of the bike itself. I agree with you that cycling's status as a hobbyist market probably does do something to limit its appeal. I just don't think that the effect is that strong, and the main reasons people don't ride a bicycle is not its confusing which accessories to get.

nradov 5y ago

Putting automatic emergency braking on a bike would be wildly dangerous and just completely stupid. When you have limited traction available it's often safer to steer around an obstacle instead of braking. Automatic braking would be likely to throw the rider off over the handlebars. Garmin bike computers support turn signals with dual rear lights but I've never seen anyone use that feature. If you're turning near other traffic then you have to slow down anyway so sticking an arm out to signal isn't a problem. A lot of riders already have multiple battery powered devices including bike computers, Di2 shifters, headlights, tail lights, power meters, radar, etc. But battery powered devices are expensive and heavy; many cyclists don't need or want some of them. Some people never ride at night and don't necessarily need lights. Bike computers and lights which support the ANT+ standard have automatic lighting. The better bike computers have GPS tracking, anti-theft alarms, and support rear radars. Most bikes don't come with a computer because they're expensive and cyclists prefer to choose their own. If you buy a bike with accessories from a local store then they'll be happy to assemble everything for a nominal fee. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/698001 https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/698001

hinkley 5y ago

> automatic emergency braking If you put automatic braking on a bicycle, you're going to cause an emergency. Braking force is not the problem. Hasn't been for 25 years. Emergency braking on a bicycle requires the rider to shift their body weight to avoid catapulting themselves off the front of the bike and directly into whatever they were trying to avoid. There is no way to achieve minimum stopping distance without substantial cooperation from the rider. The center of gravity is simply too high. You might be able to use powered brakes on a trike or recumbent, but not on any upright bicycle. I haven't had a real bike in ages and even back then it was entirely possible to launch myself off the bike using only two fingers, from the hoods, which offer terrible leverage. If anything Shimano made the brakes too strong.