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> Some researchers believe that humans will evolve or directly modify their biology so as to achieve radically greater intelligence. As a technical matter, I d

> Some researchers believe that humans will evolve or directly modify their biology so as to achieve radically greater intelligence. As a technical matter, I don't think we know enough to go writing DNA libraries to start freebasing the code. Then there are the barely-explored ethical vistas. Patience. Think it through for a decade or three.

Metacelsus 5y ago
> I don't think we know enough to go writing DNA libraries to start freebasing the code. True, but there's plenty of low-hanging fruit in areas like embryo selection, enough to increase population-level intelligence by several standard deviations.
- klyrs 5y ago
  Ah, yes, eugenics. Considering that intelligence seems to be correlated with autism spectral disorders, and individuals with severe autism are in need of individual care for their entire lives, are you sure that's it's smart to optimize for raw intelligence?
  - varelse 5y ago
    I think you have nothing to fear. I'm all in favor of breeding genetic disorders out of the species and there's a whole bunch we can eliminate before we get into murky ethical territory. Religion can bite me on this one. But also, take a look around you. The species isn't going to optimize for intelligence. It's going to optimize for looks. That's just how we're wired. And that will destroy a lot of plastic surgeon jobs.
    - klyrs 5y ago
      Yeah, let's do what we can to reduce genetic diversity, weeding out the bits of code that we don't understand. Never mind the rapidly changing climate. Sounds like a great plan. edit: the comment about plastic surgery is really weird. Do you think that 90% of humanity is going to stop breeding just because they aren't as attractive as the other 10%? And who's paying for plastic surgery? From my understanding, it's that vain 10%...
      - varelse 5y ago
        You really don't think a startup that promised to disrupt beauty at the genetic level wouldn't find customers? Are you even paying attention to the things people invest their discretionary time into?
        klyrs 5y ago
        Nope, there's a sucker born every minute, of course they'll pull money in hand over fist, damn the consequences. Do you actually think that it would put plastic surgeons out of business though? Do you think that people that fixated on their appearance will ever be satisfied?
        varelse 5y ago
        You're right they will never be satisfied. And I can't wait for the Black Mirror episode about that very subject. Not that Nathaniel Hawthorne didn't cover that nearly two centuries ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth-Mark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth-Mark
      - bobthechef 5y ago
        I agree that there's a purpose to this diversity. Why do we assume that it is bad to have rank and uneven distributions of qualities in a species, among human beings? Like it's bad to have an IQ less than 180 now? A society is enriched by this diversity because various niches can be filled and concerns taken care of. One guy brings the pot roast and the spices, another brings the napkins. We don't all need to be equal and identical. Why are some people so afraid of someone being more than another? Pride, that's why. But I would suggest we don't slander beautiful people. Vanity comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes and isn't the exclusive province of beautiful people. There's plenty of vanity in this thread alone, let along HN, much worse than the petty vanity of a 13 year old girl. Vanity affects all human beings. (Also, those who spend on plastic surgery are either mentally ill (in the manner of bulimics) or probably not in those 10%. Otherwise, why the plastic surgery? Otherwise back to mental illness. Besides, plastic surgery doesn't actually make you beautiful, it can at best make you appear beautiful because it's fake, so you're being fraudulent because you are only simulating beauty at best.)
    - FiggyPudding 5y ago
      "breeding out" is the horrible version of eugenics. Gene editing is the less family destroying, individual abusing way to go. As long as it's more focused on disease removal and less about having thousands of [insert favorite movie star/model here] walking around. Like klyrs said, we want some weird in the gene pool
      - Supermancho 5y ago
        Gene editing is also the only way we'll get offworld-hardy humans. The time it will take to naturally select, when throwing unfit after unfit is impractical. This is still the same concept as "thousands of [model here] walking around", but with a focus on different traits. This is all far-future when we are more experienced and knowledgeable about genes in total, at least after having made loads of mistakes. That's worrying, but inevitable.
        varelse 5y ago
        We're going to have to rewrite humanity from the ground up if we want to colonize space because these delicate eggshell bodies of ours are just not compatible with hard vacuum. Nor will they fare well in inhospitable planetary environments. Which is why I roll my eyes realizing that none of that will happen for a very long time but if you could make 60-year-olds look like 30-year-olds with an mRNA treatment or something similar, you would make Bezos and Musk look like paupers. It wouldn't even have to make you young on the inside and you'd still die in a decade or two but at least you'd leave a beautiful corpse because that's all that matters in the end.
    - chmsky00 5y ago
      This is absolute nonsense. It’s accepted in science we select for biological traits like scent, and social standing; intelligence being a key component of a persons social standing. Even when people find someone attractive it doesn’t mean they just get together. This is some high school level perspective way off base from a contemporary relationship. Just because the words create a believable scenario does not mean you’re anywhere close to a probable one.
      - varelse 5y ago
        Have you checked out the plastic surgery fetishization of South Korea lately? Have you seen that guy who sued his wife because she got plastic surgery to become beautiful but then bore him an apparently ugly child? You overestimate humanity and underestimate their vanity. https://kdvr.com/news/chinese-man-sues-wins-120000/ https://kdvr.com/news/chinese-man-sues-wins-120000/
        arthurcolle 5y ago
        The story is a hoax
        varelse 5y ago
        I did not know that but the real story is even weirder. Having been to China many times, the billboards for plastic surgery would be hilariously off color here so the story seemed plausible, doubly so combined with the culture of "leftover" women which is to say any woman over 30. My bad
    - nradov 5y ago
      Looks are just one factor. And good looks are a strong sign of good health (absent artificial enhancement).
      - varelse 5y ago
        Not to mention trustworthiness and integrity as well!

Metacelsus 5y ago

> I don't think we know enough to go writing DNA libraries to start freebasing the code. True, but there's plenty of low-hanging fruit in areas like embryo selection, enough to increase population-level intelligence by several standard deviations.

klyrs 5y ago
Ah, yes, eugenics. Considering that intelligence seems to be correlated with autism spectral disorders, and individuals with severe autism are in need of individual care for their entire lives, are you sure that's it's smart to optimize for raw intelligence?
- varelse 5y ago
  I think you have nothing to fear. I'm all in favor of breeding genetic disorders out of the species and there's a whole bunch we can eliminate before we get into murky ethical territory. Religion can bite me on this one. But also, take a look around you. The species isn't going to optimize for intelligence. It's going to optimize for looks. That's just how we're wired. And that will destroy a lot of plastic surgeon jobs.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    Yeah, let's do what we can to reduce genetic diversity, weeding out the bits of code that we don't understand. Never mind the rapidly changing climate. Sounds like a great plan. edit: the comment about plastic surgery is really weird. Do you think that 90% of humanity is going to stop breeding just because they aren't as attractive as the other 10%? And who's paying for plastic surgery? From my understanding, it's that vain 10%...
    - varelse 5y ago
      You really don't think a startup that promised to disrupt beauty at the genetic level wouldn't find customers? Are you even paying attention to the things people invest their discretionary time into?
      - klyrs 5y ago
        Nope, there's a sucker born every minute, of course they'll pull money in hand over fist, damn the consequences. Do you actually think that it would put plastic surgeons out of business though? Do you think that people that fixated on their appearance will ever be satisfied?
        varelse 5y ago
        You're right they will never be satisfied. And I can't wait for the Black Mirror episode about that very subject. Not that Nathaniel Hawthorne didn't cover that nearly two centuries ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth-Mark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth-Mark
    - bobthechef 5y ago
      I agree that there's a purpose to this diversity. Why do we assume that it is bad to have rank and uneven distributions of qualities in a species, among human beings? Like it's bad to have an IQ less than 180 now? A society is enriched by this diversity because various niches can be filled and concerns taken care of. One guy brings the pot roast and the spices, another brings the napkins. We don't all need to be equal and identical. Why are some people so afraid of someone being more than another? Pride, that's why. But I would suggest we don't slander beautiful people. Vanity comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes and isn't the exclusive province of beautiful people. There's plenty of vanity in this thread alone, let along HN, much worse than the petty vanity of a 13 year old girl. Vanity affects all human beings. (Also, those who spend on plastic surgery are either mentally ill (in the manner of bulimics) or probably not in those 10%. Otherwise, why the plastic surgery? Otherwise back to mental illness. Besides, plastic surgery doesn't actually make you beautiful, it can at best make you appear beautiful because it's fake, so you're being fraudulent because you are only simulating beauty at best.)
  - FiggyPudding 5y ago
    "breeding out" is the horrible version of eugenics. Gene editing is the less family destroying, individual abusing way to go. As long as it's more focused on disease removal and less about having thousands of [insert favorite movie star/model here] walking around. Like klyrs said, we want some weird in the gene pool
    - Supermancho 5y ago
      Gene editing is also the only way we'll get offworld-hardy humans. The time it will take to naturally select, when throwing unfit after unfit is impractical. This is still the same concept as "thousands of [model here] walking around", but with a focus on different traits. This is all far-future when we are more experienced and knowledgeable about genes in total, at least after having made loads of mistakes. That's worrying, but inevitable.
      - varelse 5y ago
        We're going to have to rewrite humanity from the ground up if we want to colonize space because these delicate eggshell bodies of ours are just not compatible with hard vacuum. Nor will they fare well in inhospitable planetary environments. Which is why I roll my eyes realizing that none of that will happen for a very long time but if you could make 60-year-olds look like 30-year-olds with an mRNA treatment or something similar, you would make Bezos and Musk look like paupers. It wouldn't even have to make you young on the inside and you'd still die in a decade or two but at least you'd leave a beautiful corpse because that's all that matters in the end.
  - chmsky00 5y ago
    This is absolute nonsense. It’s accepted in science we select for biological traits like scent, and social standing; intelligence being a key component of a persons social standing. Even when people find someone attractive it doesn’t mean they just get together. This is some high school level perspective way off base from a contemporary relationship. Just because the words create a believable scenario does not mean you’re anywhere close to a probable one.
    - varelse 5y ago
      Have you checked out the plastic surgery fetishization of South Korea lately? Have you seen that guy who sued his wife because she got plastic surgery to become beautiful but then bore him an apparently ugly child? You overestimate humanity and underestimate their vanity. https://kdvr.com/news/chinese-man-sues-wins-120000/ https://kdvr.com/news/chinese-man-sues-wins-120000/
      - arthurcolle 5y ago
        The story is a hoax
        varelse 5y ago
        I did not know that but the real story is even weirder. Having been to China many times, the billboards for plastic surgery would be hilariously off color here so the story seemed plausible, doubly so combined with the culture of "leftover" women which is to say any woman over 30. My bad
  - nradov 5y ago
    Looks are just one factor. And good looks are a strong sign of good health (absent artificial enhancement).
    - varelse 5y ago
      Not to mention trustworthiness and integrity as well!