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Why does iPhone 13 screen replacement disable Face ID
- xondono 5y agoA lot of people are claiming this is about screwing with third party, but there’s a lot of good technical reasons to do things like that. For instance, the serialization of batteries (they’re not only serialized, they have a symmetric key pair) is a key safety feature. I’ve designed devices with the same ICs and screwing up the configuration (or copy pasting the config and install cells with different chemistry) can set them on fire. In the case of the screen, I think it’s much of a security issue.
- josephcsible 5y agoUnder what circumstances exactly would it be a safety or security issue to replace one genuine OEM part with another genuine OEM part, identical in all ways except for the serial number?
- loopback_device 5y agoPerhaps to prevent (or at least make it harder for) someone shorting around the security it is supposed to provide, i.e. by emulating or modifying the replacement part - not that that'd really stop the determined ones
- Zak 5y agoIt's a safety issue to replace some, but not all of the cells in a Li-ion battery with cells that are not the same age and condition. Since smartphone batteries are almost always a single cell, it's a non-issue. Another scenario I can imagine is a charge controller reducing the maximum charging current as the battery ages based on information stored in the controller's memory, which would be incorrect if the cell is replaced. Of course, it would be unusual to replace a cell with one in worse condition, so it would also be surprising for that to be a safety concern.
- gambiting 5y agoKeep in mind that the check done inside an iPhone doesn't prevent the failure mode you describe. After all the phone only checks the microcontroller attached to the battery, not the actual cells(if that's even possible in any way).
- Zak 5y ago> not the actual cells(if that's even possible in any way). It isn't, but there are some controller circuits that switch off permanently if the voltage falls out of range, making changing cells more difficult.
- xondono 5y agoIt wouldn’t, OEM batteries can be swapped with no issues, it’s non-genuine parts what causes issues.
- l4yao 5y agoOn iPhone 12 and moreso on 13, many genuine OEM parts cannot be swapped by anyone other than those authorized by Apple.
- xondono 5y agoAFAIK, that’s only the case for the screen, and there’s a warning when swapping the rear camera.
- l4yao 5y ago(Some) Functionality is also lost on the front camera, faceid sensor and battery.
- philliphaydon 5y agohttps://youtu.be/8s7NmMl_-yg https://youtu.be/8s7NmMl_-yg It’s not just a warning. Functionality is flat out disabled. Swapping parts between 2 iPhone 13s boinks them.
- theranger 5y agoIt would not be a safety issue indeed only until the replacement part includes some mitm hardware that tampers the face id authentication flow. And this can be planted into the genuine looking replacement part as well.
- josephcsible 5y agoI expect that at least one of these things would have to be true: 1. The MITM hardware could be installed into the screen that's already paired with the iPhone, so the serial check wouldn't help 2. The MITM hardware would make the screen look non-genuine regardless of serial, so the serial check wouldn't be needed
- zython 5y agoI can see how this can be a safety issue but IIRC even with genuine apple parts faceID stops working :/ so this only concerns 3rd party repair shops or individuals who dont want to pay apple to replace their screen.
- kolbusa 5y agoAnd to add the insult to the injury, the genuine parts are not available, which screws 3rd party repair shops even more.
- MichaelZuo 5y agoSurely that’s just a temporary thing as production lines fill their launch orders? I imagine the authorized repairers already have stock coming in Oct./Nov.
- gambiting 5y agoThe point is that you shouldn't need to be an authorized repairer to purchase a replacement screen from Apple. I don't need to be an official Volvo dealership to purchase any replacement part for my Volvo, as long as I know the part number I can easily buy the OEM part or a replacement and Volvo has no way to stop me.
- MichaelZuo 5y agoSurely during the warranty period Volvo mandates that for the warranty to still be valid the part and installation has to go through a chain of custody of some kind? Like the part must be bought from some official vendor of Volvo parts at least?
- gambiting 5y agoNo? By law both in EU and US if a manufacturer wants to deny warranty cover, they have to prove that whatever you did to the car has caused the issue. So in this case Volvo would need to prove that their own official part broke the car purely because it wasn't bought from them. You are allowed to work on your car yourself and it doesn't affect warranty, a lot of the things that the "right to repair" movement has been fighting for in electronics have been enshrined in law with cars for a very long time. Another example - Volvo(and pretty much every manufacturer) says in their warranty terms that the warranty is only valid if the car is serviced annually at an authorized Volvo garage. They can say that, but the law in EU clearly states that you can have the annual service done at any vat-registered garage, and as long as "equivalent" parts are used, the manufacturer cannot deny you a warranty claim based on having the service done outside of their own approved dealership. Their own terms and conditions do not and cannot override the law.
- kitsunesoba 5y agoIt also makes it more difficult for thieves to part out stolen devices to work around activation locks, and so in theory is a theft deterrent.
- Nullabillity 5y agoYou know what else would lessen the demand for stolen donor devices? Actually selling the parts.
- vadfa 5y agoYou can't compete with the price of a stolen part.
- kitsunesoba 5y agoExactly. Serialization, which enables tracking and blocking of parts from stolen devices, works best alongside making OEM parts readily available at-cost to third party repair services.
- asiachick 5y ago> In the case of the screen, I think it’s much of a security issue. logic only a fanboy would dream up. I'm sure the same excuse would be given by fanboys if apple shipped a car and somehow managed to make the windows unreplaceable except by specially signed apple glass.
- donmcronald 5y ago> For instance, the serialization of batteries (they’re not only serialized, they have a symmetric key pair) is a key safety feature. That’s the messaging from the manufacturers which is a big lie IMO. You can validate keys or signatures and give a warning for non-genuine parts. The only reasons to disable features are to prevent competition and, ultimately, to cheat the customer.
- xondono 5y agoIt’s not. Modern batteries integrate the charge controller with the cells, this allows to track the cell life and it allows the management of the chemistry. Even small changes in chemistry require modifications in the charging algorithm. The only real solution for managing that is bundling the algorithm with the cells. Setting the wrong configuration can definitely blow the cell up, or cause swelling. Source: I did blow some cells while designing a battery pack for a portable device
- fantyoon 5y agoYou used to be able to replace batteries in smartphones. Back then none of these things were issues. Its hard to imagine why they would be now.
- userbinator 5y agoSorry, but that is complete corporate-profit-driven-paranoia BS. Lithium-ion cells are one of the easiest to charge - there's minimum and maximum voltages, and a maximum charge current. Simply limit charge current to the maximum until the cell reaches its maximum voltage, and then wait for the current to drop until it's nearly 0. Of course, exceeding those limits at the upper end certainly can result in flames, but it's seriously not that hard to charge a cell. But people like to spew plenty of FUD about "complex algorithms" and the like, because the companies who make the ICs stand to profit from that. Source: I have also worked in electronics on battery-powered devices.
- aaronbeekay 5y agoYes, it’s true that you can implement a pretty simple generic lithium-ion cell charging algorithm that will get the job done for most cells. But that’s not a “modern battery pack”. If you’re trying to eke hundreds or thousands of charge cycles out of cells, implement fast charging, do accurate state of charge estimation under load and in variable thermal conditions —- those things are very difficult to implement generically, and often do have parameters that depend on the specific chemistry being used. Modern devices have to do all of those things. Yes, TI makes money when people use their battery management ICs with fancy cell monitoring, but I don’t see a lack of price pressure on those ICs. If manufacturers could implement the same features with a less complex, less expensive design, why would all of the modern battery systems, even in competitive sectors like consumer/retail electronics, integrate battery monitoring with the cells?
- grayhatter 5y agoOh I absolutely think the primary reason for this is an amoral technical reason (please note I said amoral not immoral). But I also think given Apple's aggressive history of trying to fuck with 3rd parties. It would be naive to think that wasn't an important factor in this design decision. Even with the most charitable interpretation, someone knew that this would fuck with third parties, and instead of trying to avoid it. They're going with the solution, again with the most charitable interpretation, appears to look like they're obstructing 3rd party repair. I pretend to be a security expert on TV; and I fully support the decision to disable face id when there might be a hardware mitm attack. But there's options available to Apple that allow you to have security and 3rd party support. But they're clearly still making decisions that obviously obstruct user choice. And it's dishonest to pretend otherwise. ps. I don't think you're being dishonest, you're clearly explaining the rational. My issue generally is the apologists who use these arguments without context, and pretend there's no other options.
- Zak 5y ago> In the case of the screen, I think it’s much of a security issue. I default to skepticism on this sort of explanation, especially when it involves Apple and third-party repair. Of course, it might be possible to devise a very sophisticated attack using the screen's hardware interface and Face ID as a vector. If the iPhone was a security-hardened specialty device, I might find that to be a valid reason. It isn't; it's a consumer device, and one that's not terribly hard for sophisticated attackers to compromise, e.g. https://www.wired.com/story/apple-imessage-zero-click-hacks/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-imessage-zero-click-hacks/
- gpt5 5y agoThe iPhone is one of the most desirable attack target in the world. An attack that can access locked phones is extremely valuable. From the police to spy agencies to totalitarian regimes, everyone would buy your stuff. See NSO.
- fsckboy 5y agoif you absolutely don't want your iPhone broken into, don't use FaceID at all; this case of "disables FaceID" in that case would be your best friend.
- baybal2 5y ago> For instance, the serialization of batteries (they’re not only serialized, they have a symmetric key pair) is a key safety feature. Unless Apple itself wasn't opting for crap battery suppliers
- judge2020 5y agoHere's an outline link since it has broken scrolling and seems to be loading slow https://outline.com/7p3F9U https://outline.com/7p3F9U > Further forward to the present moment and the iPhone 13’s screen IC now not only acts as a ADC, enables True Tone, carries a ROM for the non-genuine message but also now communicates with Face ID. We believe this communication with Face ID is a bug in iOS15. But it shows us a glimpse of how much more complex the screen IC is going to be in the future. We expect the next generations of iPhone to contain 2 biometrics in Face ID & in screen Touch ID.
- 1-6 5y agoGetting to the real question: How does this site override my iPhone’s default kinetic scrolling speed?
- marcosscriven 5y agoAnd why does whoever did that think it was a good idea?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- MBCook 5y agoOh wow you aren’t kidding. That’s terrible. Why would anyone do that?
- kecupochren 5y agoUsually devs primarily running Windows who want to have smooth scrolling. They often don't disable it for MacOS because they don't know it has its own thing. But why does a site aimed on Apple products has it is mindboggling
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- aaaaaaaaaaab 5y ago>Why would anyone do that? This is a question that can be asked about 9 out of 10 web “technologies”.
- echelon 5y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Please don't complain about website formatting, back-button breakage, and similar annoyances. They're too common to be interesting. Exception: when the author is present. Then friendly feedback might be helpful.
- sedatk 5y agoI stopped reading the article because scroll hijacking made it unbearable.
- ObamaBinSpying 5y agoI stopped ready at "504 Gateway Time-out"
- ObamaBinSpying 5y agoI stopped ready at "504 Gateway Time-out"
- nikanj 5y agoWhy use native scrolling with 0MB used when you can implement your own scrolling in JS for mere tens of megabytes?
- deathanatos 5y ago… and now the site is down, too… (…and now that I'm reading a cached version… does it actually answer the question in the title?)
- aemreunal 5y agoClearly because you can't make scrolling horrible without some JS in there.
- randyrand 5y agowow that is truly awful scrolling. why would they ever implement this?
- nielsbot 5y agoReader mode to the rescue. (Is this content worth it tho?)
- phantomread 5y agoIf you’re on an i-device then reader view in safari (or other browsers) works well to get around the scrolling issue. Ditto for Android.
- LorenPechtel 5y agoIt sounds like they are talking about third parties making such a change, not an official Apple repair. You don't trust hardware that a bad guy got their hands on. Picture a black-hat iPhone repair shop, they're installing replacement screens that appear legit but aren't--now they can defeat the face ID and get into your locked phone. Low probability? What if it's a government doing it? Seem more likely?
- sudosysgen 5y agoA government or black hat could just buy one of the plethora of exploits and hack any iPhone whenever they want for cheaper than setting up chains of repair stores.
- Nextgrid 5y agoA government can just use legislation and threats of punishment to compel the owner to unlock the device. This is already happening in the US.
- whoknowswhat11 5y agoJust realize - if we let folks writing click bait headlines control us, the technically quality will (usually) go into the toilet. Site guidelines suggest not criticizing websites tech - but do click through on your iphone to experience the enlightened nature of current web design. I'm reminded of the anti-tracking articles on news sites LOADED with like 15 DIFFERENT trackers :) Separatly, isn't this an obvious security feature, especially with I thought in display touch or face ID coming? Though it's not clear why an apple authorized replacement would need to be distrusted, I'd imagine mostly third party shops would be on distrust list. Apple does need to fix their imessage security disaster though first.
- vbezhenar 5y ago> Just realize - if we let folks writing click bait headlines control us, the technically quality will (usually) go into the toilet. Site guidelines suggest not criticizing websites tech - but do click through on your iphone to experience the enlightened nature of current web design. Actually I like this scroll on desktop with mouse. Now I want it in my browser as native, LoL. I agree that it's horrible on phone and probably horrible on macbook with touchpad scrolling.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y agoMost browsers have a “Smooth scrolling” option. Have you tried toggling that? I use a desktop. With a very expensive and ergonomic mouse with a notched wheel (as opposed to a free-spinning wheel). One notch - Scroll 3 lines instantly. No delay. No lag. No animation. The way it should be.
- vbezhenar 5y agoI found that feature in chrome://flags and enabled it. It did not make any effect. There are some extensions, but I don't really trust extensions so probably I won't use those. Scroll animation is what I liked on this website. My browser does not have any noticeable animation when I scroll, it just instantly moves page where I drag scrollbar.
- 5y ago
- sneak 5y agoThe Apple Inc quest to generate and endlessly increase services revenue is the literal cancer that is killing Apple's former 30+ year obsession with customer delight. A brand new $1500 iPhone Pro will try to hustle you with ads for $2/mo or something for cloud storage upgrades. It it's not just cloud, too, but also repair, and 10x industry standard charges for CC processing in the App Store, and now the credit card, and more iCloud and TV and arcade subscription plans and options. It's super gross and lame.
- martini333 5y agoWhat a mess of an article and website.
- irae 5y agoWhat I am about to say has nothing to do with endorsing Apples decisions. But people in developed countries tend to miss what happen in less favorable places. Two major problems: Robbery and used iPhone scams. Where I live, I often decide to leave my 12 mini at home because I don't want to be robbed. If I take it, I cannot take it out of my pocket until my destination. They steal you, if you are lucky that's it. If you are unlucky they hold you at guns point or knifes edge until you remove your iCloud account. Cops can't do much, as they use minors to do the robbery and police can't enter the places they disassemble the iPhones, not even if your FindMy is pointing exactly where it is. Minors caught are released after about 12h of being held and are found doing the same thing next day. When you want to sell/buy used iPhone, you might also be at risk. You can be robbed trying to sell and you can buy a completely remix of a phone from scrapped parts and non original parts that put together can barely work. People repairing sometimes never had formal training, and it could affect safety. I wonder if Apple considers this at all. It would be naive to think any of what Apple is doing is intended at developing countries safety, but I can't stop thinking the warnings about non-legitimate parts would maybe help people buying second hand, and there is a very small hope in me that it become less lucrative to steal phones in the future.
- jiggawatts 5y agoBrazil?
- irae 5y agoyes
- polymorph1sm 5y agoThis. I recently bought an "second hand" iPhone XS advertised as those came from shop display phones. It was in good condition: no burn ins, battery at 80% health. When the screen broke after dropping it, I went to some shop for repair just to found out its remix of parts from other iPhone ( apparently the motherboard came from South Korea ). This made the device very fragile as some of the screws maybe missing and screen are not properly mounted. The iPhone XS I bought had one missing screw and no display adhesive.
- solarkraft 5y ago> We as consumers and repairers are just caught in the middle. Apple designs beautiful technology outside and in, they have it produced in China, who then disassemble the technology and manufacture alternative parts. Apple is using their own genius against the Chinese by blocking aftermarket parts. Constricting the supply of parts is directly anti-consumer. “China” isn’t randomly profiting, they’re making stuff people need. The most absurd hole in this line of argument is two-fold: - Geniune parts can’t be swapped, making it impossible to use them - Non-geniune parts can (in theory) be used, since they are re-programmable. Maybe some day they’ll use certificates to make these mental gymnastics even plausible. Little disclaimer: I’m not attacking iCorrect, I do believe that’s Apple’s preferred interpretation, as it’s the most charitable possible.