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Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets
- moocowtruck 5y agoOn my recent trip to that area, I saw people all over cycling with masks on.. which seems pretty insane to me for how hot it was there when i visited (90's) and i only saw a small handfull of people with helmets
- rossdavidh 5y agoI haven't done this level of research, but in Austin I have observed motorcyclists with mask and no helmet, which is even crazier.
- jmalicki 5y agoIf you're in traffic, the right kind of mask protects you against breathing in pollution, which is an immediate annoyance/harm, vs. helmets and masking to protect against COVID, which are more statistical harms, so it does have some sort of logic.
- foolzcrow 5y agoThis is true near me as well. You can literally identify fascists by their incoherent behavior. They goose step with masks.
- scrose 5y agoIt’s interesting that the OP didn’t also consider that people wear masks on bikes to block out truck and car fumes and other particles that tend to fly in your face. I rarely wear a helmet when biking, but there’s a noticeable benefit when I’m biking around traffic and don’t have to breath in car exhaust because I’m wearing a mask.
- monological 5y agoIf it’s not N95 it won’t be blocking out P2.5 particulates emitted from exhausts.
- lambdaba 5y agoAnd if it is, you'll have a much harder time breathing.
- krastanov 5y agoI have been wearing N95 when biking in the city for a year now. It is great, it is not difficult to breath at all (I am really incredulous at people making that claim), and it provides a measurable difference in the air I breath (a nasty but efficient way to measure that is looking at your snot if you bike while having a cold).
- lambdaba 5y agoThank you, I was repeating something I've heard, I do recall trying such a mask before covid in summer and finding it a bit uncomfortable, but maybe it varies. I'm quite interested in better breathing when riding my bike when air quality ocassionaly drops so I'll give it a try!
- krastanov 5y agoIn the particularly hot months I have had to use small piece of cloth under the mask so I can remove it after my commute and not have a humid mask on my face, but that was the only issue I had. Even with the extra cloth I did not have trouble breathing (I specifically try to not exert too much effort when commuting on a bike because the sweat on my back would be a much worse source of discomfort than the mask)
- scrose 5y agoI wear KN95 masks, but I’m not breaking down the level of particulate matter that gets filtered for science. I’m saying I don’t get asthma attacks or sprayed by debris when I keep pace in traffic with a mask on.
- dmosley 5y agoExperience and a basic level of observation would show that you're reaching to find a justification here. It's clear that the masks are covid-related and not pollution related. Gymnastics are for gymnasts not for research.
- krastanov 5y agoWhy would you ever assume that!? I also wear a mask when riding near traffic. Masks on bikers without helmets were a common sight in Paris in 2009 when I lived there. The mask has a measureable increase in immediate comfort, while the helmet is something that requires thinking ahead. Of course more people will remember a mask before they remember a helmet.
- seanmcdirmid 5y agoIs helmet wearing on bikes common in Europe anywhere outside of the UK?
- detaro 5y agoGerman stats are afaik something like 20% (heavily skewed towards kids)
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y agoNot for casual riding.
- thinkingemote 5y agoIndeed, before 2019 I would see masks most commonly on bicyclists. UK city roads are polluted. They wouldn't have been wearing the 2 ply medical masks though if I recall correctly
- bkohlmann 5y agoOP here - I was on the Stanford campus in 2016 and 2017, frequently riding my bike there. Never once saw a mask on a bike rider. Very little car traffic on the routes bicyclists regularly use to get around. Also a frequent bike rider in my new city of Dallas. Very rarely (if ever), have I seen a cyclist (even on roads) wear a mask. Very likely masks on the Stanford campus are in response to COVID.
- krastanov 5y agoI also did not wear a mask when biking before COVID. Now, having easy access to masks, I would rarely bike without one, if I am near traffic, because of the better air it provides. Fair point about lack of traffic on campus though.
- scrose 5y agoIt’s understandable that you wouldn’t see people wear masks on campus prior to COVID. Mainly because mask wearing outdoors was previously a rare event for any reason in the USA prior to COVID, so you’d stick out as making a statement if you were one of the few who did. But the normalization of wearing a mask outdoors now likely plays a contributing role towards people feeling comfortable about wearing masks for other reasons that aren’t as straightforward as ‘preventing COVID’.
- captainredbeard 5y agoThey don't believe in the science of helmet wearing! /s
- lambdaba 5y agoThis has been the best proof that intelligence and common sense don't necessarily go together. Not to single out Stanford students, there is no common sense to be found anywhere lately.
- krastanov 5y agoI am not a Stanford student, but I bike with a mask on when near traffic. It has nothing to so with the virus and everything to do with measurable quality of air. Yes, it a N95, no I have no trouble breathing (and I am not particularly fit), no it has not been a problem in the hot summer.
- lambdaba 5y agoAgain, thank you, you've persuaded me to give an N95 a try as I often have the snot problem when riding in traffic. Are some better than others?
- jerlam 5y agoThe biggest difference between various N95s is fit, but that's going to rely on your specific facial characteristics. The respirator needs to seal well to your face otherwise the polluted air will take the path of least resistance, through the gaps between your face and the mask. Some respirators come in small sizes and different shapes may fit differently. Once you achieve a decent fit, a secondary characteristic is inhalation/exhalation resistance. Good N95 filter material can achieve the required 95%+ filtration but also achieve very low breathing resistance. The N95 requirements for inhalation resistance are quite easy to achieve, being less than 35 mmH2O. Good respirators test at less than 10 mmH20. If you are going to use an N95 frequently, it probably makes more sense to invest in an elastomeric respirator, which is made out of a softer thermoplastic or silicone material. They use separate detachable filters which are more durable than the simple folded filter material of a disposable, and do not degrade due to exhaled moisture or sweat.
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- seanmcdirmid 5y agoThe same is true in the Netherlands. Honestly, if they are biking around campus, they don’t need helmets. Helmets are needed on American roads because of poor biking infrastructure (not an issue on campus or in the Netherlands). The article is taking liberties using nationwide statistics to criticize local behavior.
- wyager 5y agoIf they’re biking around campus, they also don’t need masks.
- detaro 5y agoBut they probably need to wear it both where they are going and where they come from, so why not keep it on? Whereas they don't need a helmet for anything else in the day.
- ramraj07 5y agoAny good mask will make it very hard to breathe under strenuous activity. N95 masks also get blocked after an amount of air passes through them so they become ineffective. Best not to wear them if you’re gonna be in the wind.
- detaro 5y agoBut we're talking about biking across campus, not biking for sports. So not really "strenuous activity" where you'd notice that. (even just because you don't want to be sweaty at the other end either)
- seanmcdirmid 5y agoUw is a bit different than Stanford in that it is built in a hill. So if your next class is on upper campus, you might not have any choice but to sweat.
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- fortran77 5y agoWe all like to think that Stanford students may not be as bright as they're purported to be (I have fun thinking this too!) but here's my theory: - Some people who normally wear helmets might not wear one when going slowly from building to building within a campus where there are few/no cars or other dangers around. - These people might have had to wear a mask at the location they're coming from (e.g., a lecture hall) and the location they're going to. - So...it may just be easiest to hop on your bike, ride to another building close by, and leave your mask on.
- lambdaba 5y agoIf there is any sense in this I suspect it's more about signaling and conformity than anything else... I wonder if those places still see joggers wearing masks.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago> I wonder if those places still see joggers wearing masks. In Palo Alto it’s definitely possible. A friend of mine who lives in nearby Atherton was complaining about joggers not wearing face masks (so I’m guessing he was while out running).
- jimmaswell 5y agoHe's actually still complaining about people not wearing masks at this point, after the vaccine is widely available? I guess some people are going to be stuck in 2020 for the rest of their lives, like people who grew up in the depression and could never stop hoarding food.
- seanmcdirmid 5y agoCalifornians are pretty strict about both compared to the rest of the USA.
- krastanov 5y agoOr you know, jogging or biking near a dusty smelly road traffic is gross... People have been wearing masks in that situation since forever (or just pulling their t-shirts over their mouths). Now we just happen to have N95s much more easily available.
- timwaagh 5y agoNobody here wears a bicycle helmet unless he or she is a recreational rider who rides at high speeds. Helmets can help against high speed crash. Most commuters ride at low speeds. Helmets are inconvenient and pressure to increase helmet usage has been suspected to make cycling less safe in the aggregate because less people will cycle and other road users thus won't be taking them into account. If I'm being cynical it's possibly why people keep pushing for it in the first place.
- happytoexplain 5y agoThis is presented as hypocritical, and is taken that way by some of the comments, but masks and helmets are very different, with different situational contexts where their perceived protection varies differently, and different kinds of inconveniences. Being irresponsible about one but not the other may be hypocritical, but that's being taken as a must in order to score political points.
- gfodor 5y agoI think a better frame is we should laugh at people wearing masks on bikes the way we would laugh at people wearing helmets when riding an escalator. (To be fair, some % of people wearing masks on bikes probably just as so used to it they forgot. But I'm sure many are wearing it out of fear or cultural norms, which is depressing if we're talking about highly educated people.)
- lalaland1125 5y agoI mean, sometimes I do wear a helmet on an escalator if I just got off a bike and don't want to bother taking it off. These are students traveling short distances between indoor classes where they have to wear masks. If anything, keeping the mask on is the rational thing (less wear and tear, less effort, etc) because they would otherwise have to put it back on in two minutes.
- gfodor 5y agoThat was the point of the second paragraph of my post. The point is we would laugh at someone who wore a helmet in an elevator for their safety when riding the elevator. I assume some students are wearing masks on bikes because they think if they do not they are at risk.
- lalaland1125 5y agoIt's not about forgetting or being "too used to it". Wearing a mask while doing a two minute bike ride between buildings is literally the most rational option. Think about the time it would take to get out your backpack, pull out your mask case, etc, etc. I don't know why you are assuming they are wearing a mask for safety reasons when there is a much stronger justification right there. Seems like motivated reasoning.
- AlbertCory 5y agoFor those who say "you don't need a helmet on campus," there's a simple science-based way to test your theory: Look at the stats on brain injuries for bicycle accidents on campus. [1] has anecdotes, but no stats, unfortunately. You have other bikes to collide with, you have people crossing the path, and yes, there are cars on campus. I've driven there. [1] https://transportation.stanford.edu/bicycle/learn-about-bike-safety/love-your-brain https://transportation.stanford.edu/bicycle/learn-about-bike...
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- oefrha 5y agoAnd you have bike thieves screwing your wheels loose for whatever reason. Bike theft was a big problem at least when I was at Stanford years ago, and my front wheel once came off when I was biking (thankfully I was wearing a helmet). Guy at bike shop speculated that it was the handiwork of a thief, who might have been interrupted mid act.
- 13415 5y agoStrange anecdote: I once organized a workshop on reasoning about uncertainty and one of the attendants was a health official working on bike accident statistics. According to her, if going solely by the statistics, helmets would have to be prohibited in our country because people riding bikes with helmets had a significantly elevated risk of grave traffic accidents in comparison to those without helmets. Of course, she also said that you really couldn't use the statistics in this way and we agreed that it seemed likely that helmets could prevent serious head injuries. Still, it was an odd finding. Presumably, people with helmets drove faster or more carelessly but she did not have any evidence for that at the time. Edit (just in case): 1. I'm not an expert on any of this and it's just an anecdote. 2. I recommend wearing a good, certified helmet.
- detaro 5y agoOr people with more dangerous routes are more likely to wear helmets. There's also some data to suggest that drivers are less careful around cyclists with helmets, e.g. passing them with less distance. Somewhat related, specifically in the context of requiring helmets there's also arguments that people dislike them enough that the reduction in cycling happening would have worse overall effects than the injury reduction.
- ajkjk 5y agoI'm pretty sure it's just that they need their mask wherever they're going and it's easier to hop on and hop off with it than stow it away.
- kkylin 5y agoI bike with my mask on for that reason. As a bonus, it also helps with my allergies. (I do wear a helmet -- as much out of fear of getting hit by a bike on campus as by a car off.)
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- ryandrake 5y agoThis is the most likely reason. I've taken to just wearing a mask as soon as I walk out my door, since everywhere I'm going requires one anyway. It's more of a pain to keep taking it off and putting it back on than to just leave it on. I also wear a shirt the whole time I'm out even though it's technically not required while I'm in my car.
- shusaku 5y agoHere in Japan you’ll literally see people alone in their cars with a mask. Maybe half the cars that pass have a masked driver. Obviously it makes no sense, but again if you need a mask where you’re coming from and going to, it just fades into the background.
- ObamaBinSpying 5y agoHere in the US too... probably not half though.
- CarelessExpert 5y agoOh sure, look at you, showing up with a reasonable interpretation. Here we had a near-perfect right wing clickbait article, attacking college students, the California left, mask wearers, and cyclists. And you had to come in and ruin it...
- varelse 5y agoWell it's not like there's a shortage of Stanford students and graduates in the tech industry so this seems like a situation that will resolve itself organically as well as provide an additional implicit hiring filter for no additional charge.
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- fergie 5y agoThe author makes the mistake of associating cycling with head injuries. In fact, for young people the risk of head injury on a bike is significantly lower than the risk of contracting Covid on campus.
- 99_00 5y agoIs your argument that a cyclist can reduce health risks more by wearing a mask than wearing a helmet?
- josephcsible 5y agoThe risk of contracting COVID at all? Maybe. The risk of harm from COVID as serious as a head injury? No way.
- cratermoon 5y ago> The risk of harm from COVID as serious as a head injury? No way. Uhm, what? COVID can kill you and if it doesn't kill you can leave you with what, so far, looks like life-long disability. Sounds about like what a head injury can do.
- dwaltrip 5y agoWe are talking about college students.
- cratermoon 5y agoWhat does that have to do with anything? They aren't immune to COVID-19.
- dwaltrip 5y agoYou honestly think COVID is more dangerous to a college student than a head injury?
- Delk 5y agoMasks protect others, not just the wearer, perhaps even with an emphasis on the others. That might create a stronger social pressure for wearing a mask, and avoidance of stigma might compel people to wear one even in situations where it doesn't actually do much. There may be lots of other factors in play considering that these kinds of choices are largely social, so this might not actually be the reason the students make those choices, but that's a fairly obvious difference.
- 99_00 5y agoHelmets mess up your hair.
- mike_h 5y agoThe choice isn’t between perfect rationality and hypocrisy, it’s between useful norms and harmful ones. People of every intelligence level defer some decision making to the community and culture, it’s how the species moves forward without having to constantly rethink and re-explain. Right now it’s likely better to have people wearing masks too often than the other way around.
- thinkingemote 5y agoOptics and appearances affect how others feel. This could be a sentence summarising the 20s