13 ms·

> She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. Hell, I always thought anti-vaxxers were looneys and was first in line fo

> She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. Hell, I always thought anti-vaxxers were looneys and was first in line for the COVID shot when it was available in March... but even I'm starting to be convinced that the anti-vaxxers might have a point because of all this effort to silence them. I'm becoming vaccine... remorseful?

crazy_horse 5y ago
They're making an effort to silence them after allowing rampant misinformation for a year and a half because in the US we still have over 30% of the population not vaccinated and the death toll continues to climb.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  > after allowing rampant misinformation for a year and a half my recollection is that they started dealing with the "misinformation" early on. they've been ratcheting up the countermeasures the whole time.
raxxorrax 5y ago
I am remorseful at this point. By calculation taking the vaccine is sensible. But very closely so in my age group. There is currently a push to vaccinate children which is technically irresponsible since they won't suffer symptoms and would reach a better immunity they will never get with the vaccine. There is a lot of room for critique and much panic about a serious but not too deadly disease.
- ridaj 5y ago
  Why do people fear long-term effects of the vaccine (which seem very unlikely in light of past vaccine history) but dismiss equally unknown long-term effects of covid? It is true that most children are not affected by covid in the short term compared with other age groups, but some get neurological disease, and others have gotten "long covid". Those are not the same as the typical vaccine side effects. Feels like maybe a case of the "trolley problem".
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    > dismiss equally unknown long-term effects of covid? If you believe vaccines have no potential negative effect beyond 1 week, you'll have to give a serious thought as to why you believe Covid can have long term effects. Also past vaccine history means absolutely nothing. You can't assume the next bridge is built safely just because you have never seen a bridge fall before.
    - shpongled 5y ago
      > If you believe vaccines have no potential negative effect beyond 1 week, you'll have to give a serious thought as to why you believe Covid can have long term effects ...because they are different? A localized, single dose mRNA vaccine that transiently produces spike protein will have a completely different effect than systemic infection with a virus.
    - jlebar 5y ago
      > If you believe vaccines have no potential negative effect beyond 1 week, you'll have to give a serious thought as to why you believe Covid can have long term effects. I mean, covid can kill you, which is kind of a long-term negative effect? Surely you're not arguing that the vaccine is equally likely to have that particularly long-term effect, so then I'd ask why you think it's equally likely to have other long-term effects? > Also past vaccine history means absolutely nothing. You can't assume the next bridge is built safely just because you have never seen a bridge fall before. Really? I mean, do you...generally avoid bridges where you live? It seems to me that if bridges don't collapse frequently, that would indeed be evidence that whoever is building / designing / approving them is doing something right, and that "the next" bridge is also unlikely to collapse?
    - Hallucinaut 5y ago
      That's not what the OP said though. There are two unknowns: effects of long-term COVID, and effect of long-term vaccine. The person you responded to quite clearly suggests it's illogical to ignore long-term effects of COVID in comparing the outcomes. Particularly in light of the actual evidence of neurological effects of COVID, and some evidence of long COVID being more than phantom effect. If you assume a weighted value X for long-term vaccination impacts, but assume a 0 or anything materially less than X for the same for COVID it's just not a consistent evaluation.
- longhairedhippy 5y ago
  How many people need to die before it's considered a "deadly disease"? As a person in a high risk group, it angers me to hear folks cast my life as disposable and my death as insignificant. I've given up reddit after arguing with all these fools. A simple risk analysis will tell you it was the right thing to do. If you're wrong about the vaccine, you took a shot you may not have needed, if you're wrong about COVID, you're betting your life on it (and other people's as well).
- commandlinefan 5y ago
  > a push to vaccinate children That's really where I'm most concerned. We vaccinated both of our teenagers - after all, we get the flu shots every year, right? Now I really worry that there will be side effects from this rushed vaccine that we won't know about for decades.
  - relaxing 5y ago
    Where does this worry come from? We’ve had 9 months with the vaccine and everyone who gets it is doing great, but you think some problem is going to crop up in 20+ years?
    - Nemrod67 5y ago
      asbestos entered the chat
      - relaxing 5y ago
        A foreign material which when inhaled damages the lungs, you say?
  - Hallucinaut 5y ago
    Had you not, you should be equally worried that effectively guaranteeing them COVID, as this isn't going away, puts into their body a neurologically impacting virus, with growing evidence of medium term impacts, whilst in other medical fields a growing body of literature shows viruses can have severe life and wellness impacts decades later (whether that means Chicken Pox with Shingles, or Herpes/Cold sores and Alzheimer's).
    - bwship 5y ago
      Oh yea, I am totally suffering from long term Chicken Pox. Sometimes I scratch my arm where a pox used to be.
      - zucked 5y ago
- jlebar 5y ago
  It's not true that people get stronger immunity by catching covid. 1/3 of people get no antibodies at all, as compared to 100% of non-immunocompromised people who get vaccinated. https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/574284-natural-covid-19-immunity-is-powerful-but-kind-of-irrelevant https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/574284-natural-covid-... It appears that you too have been a victim of the misinformation that youtube is attempting to mitigate!
  - ignasl 5y ago
    If they didn't have antibodies how did they beat covid?
    - andruby 5y ago
      regular immune system. we don't _always_ create (long-term) anti-bodies when fighting a virus.
      - handrous 5y ago
        Yeah, looking at the linked study in the article, it seems folks who fought it off easily (often with low initial viral load) tended to be the ones who consistently tested blood serum antibody-negative. So if you had it and didn't get much more than a cough, there's a fair chance you didn't develop antibodies. Generic and local immune responses beat it in a lot of those cases (I gather), not virus-specific antibodies and a broad system-wide immune response.
- Marsymars 5y ago
  > would reach a better immunity they will never get with the vaccine. This isn't accurate - there's nothing indicating that the immunity from vaccine + exposure is worse than the immunity from exposure alone.
- Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
  > There is currently a push to vaccinate children which is technically irresponsible since they won't suffer symptoms Vaccination isn't just about preventing COVID symptoms, but also slowing the spread. > and would reach a better immunity they will never get with the vaccine. Do you have an article about this, preferably one written recently that takes the Delta variant into account? The CDC doesn't really have information about COVID re-infection rates [0], so I'm not sure how much immunity is really given by getting infected compared to getting vaccinated. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfe...
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  "they won't suffer symptoms" Except for the ones who get sick or die of COVID you mean.
simonh 5y ago
None of the material that's being pulled would in any way persuade me that getting vaxxed was a mistake. I'm very happy with my choice and highly recommend it. Most of the material being pulled is pernicious conspiracy rubbish, but too much legitimate discussion, some of which has a chance of persuading anti-vaxxers is being hoovered up in the cull.
pstuart 5y ago
Are you now more interested in child pornography because that's not allowed on youtube?
goldenbikeshed 5y ago
I don't get this. Here in Germany for example holocaust denial is illegal. Assume you are in a country where it's not, say the USA. Assume you slowly witness a rise of naziism that as usual comes with holocaust denial. Now the USA make holocaust denial illegal. Would that make you reconsider if the holocaust really happened? What the anti-vaxxers and their misinformation are doing has lead to the absolutely unnecessary loss of thousands of lifes. Depriving them of any platform is morally imperative.
- angelzen 5y ago
  Who is the arbiter of good / bad speech? What is the process through society figures out what speech is good and what speech is bad?
  - duhast 5y ago
    Level of virality and black box algorithms.
- gfodor 5y ago
  You don’t have a monopoly on truth. The “anti-vaxxers” are not a monolithic group, and some people who are skeptics of consensus views on the various questions involved will probably be vindicated as other non-consensus views have been so far, which is normal in any chaotic situation where data is limited.
  - LightG 5y ago
    Tell that to the regularly highlighted examples of Covid-19 and/or vax deniers who end up ... dead. Scientific, rational debate is ideal on these subjects ... but is that even possible anymore when people are jumping off the deep end so much. David Koresh would be envious.
    - burnafter182 5y ago
      Selection bias, plain and simple.
coldpie 5y ago
Please don't make medical decisions based on crap you read on the Internet, and especially not based on articles about crap other people are reading on the Internet. Talk to a doctor. That's what they're there for.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  That goes both ways.
- cybernautique 5y ago
  Devil;s advocacy: then why so much ad spend to push pro-vaxx media? Also vaccinated, not remorseful at all. Wouldn't the responsible messaging be a huge ad wave of "talk to your doctor?" My opinion: this isn't actually a feasible solution. There are not enough doctors for all millions of Americans, let alone all billions of humans, to consult with their doctor. It's also largely unnecessary. I did not consult my doctor. I looked at the situation, assessed my values, did my own cost-benefit analysis, and mediated all of this with a healthy amount of dialogue between my confidantes. As most people do. I think this almost necessarily has to be litigated largely through public engagement. You know your situation, your risks, and you know if a serious consultation is prudential for you. Even still, if the position is "don't make decisions based on biased media," why is the pro-vaxx media more valuable than anti-vaxx or vaxx-hesitant? I believe it resolves entirely to your individual values. The argument should be: why is it profitable to the individual to value one over the other? I can only make this argument from my previously-established values, and I'm already pro-vaxx.
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  Talk to your doctor and then get your prescription rejected because Kroger corporate policy overrides your doctor's medical opinion.
idiotsecant 5y ago
Yes anti-vaxxers are looneys. No they shouldn't be removed from the modern public forum because of that. Don't let the two get confused. Just because someone is silencing people with stupid opinions doesn't somehow make those opinions less stupid.
- mwigdahl 5y ago
  You know that, and I know that. But people who already distrust authority and feel that the mechanisms of culture, finance, and government are biased against them don't agree. They see money, time, and effort being expended by groups they already feel are against them to silence certain views. Of course they're then going to more prone to associate themselves with those views: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
  - bwship 5y ago
    MMR vaccine links to autism, total hog wash you smart, smart people say.
scohesc 5y ago
Welcome to the club! Almost two years of "two more weeks and we'll be out of this! just do your duty and we'll be free of this pandemic!" I was very vaccine hesitant and would say I was coerced by government, private businesses (and the governments mandates handed to them), and by my peers. I ended up getting the vaccine recently but I am very scared of the potential consequences. We need the world to rip off the bandaid and open up instead of our leaders prolonging this pandemic to gain more and more power.
- hellojesus 5y ago
  I fixed any concern by buying long term disability insurance before I got it. May be worth checking out.
- rightbyte 5y ago
  Wouldn't any long term effect show by now? E.g. Astra Zenica's was pulled after it was shown to give clots. I guess Youtube would supress reports of that now until it became official news ...
  - namibj 5y ago
    The initial study was very heavily affected by sampling bias (medical personnel with hallway rumors and unbureocratic access to screening techniques). Add to that that the risk of blood clots is strongly increased by typical isolation at home due to a lack of regular movement/exercise, and the (significant, but still very low) heightened incidence rate isn't enough to deny people vaccination.
- wwweston 5y ago
  > I am very scared of the potential consequences Any particular reason? I'm someone who was told to be cautious about some vaccines by medical professionals due to a past condition, and so when the covid vaccines started to come available, I both consulted a doctor and did some of my own investigation of things other professionals have published before determining to get vaccinated as soon as possible. Also I've been following VAERS reports since, just to keep a heads up. As far as I can tell, adverse events from vaccination of any kind are orders of magnitude rarer than corresponding adverse effects from infection. And nobody who is saying anything about "long term effects" that might show up later has been able to advance any plausible model for how that would happen considering that's vanishingly rare from vaccination in general.
belter 5y ago
Employees, Scientists and Managers of Vaccine producers, when recorded with hidden cameras, also seem to be vaccine remorseful... "Johnson & Johnson: Children Don’t Need the ‘F*cking’ COVID Vaccine Because There Are ‘Unknown Repercussions Down the Road’ …" https://www.projectveritas.com/news/johnson-and-johnson-children-dont-need-the-f-cking-covid-vaccine-because/ https://www.projectveritas.com/news/johnson-and-johnson-chil...
- packetslave 5y ago
  GTFO with your conspiracy theory bullshit. "Project Veritas", indeed.
  - belter 5y ago
    I made a statement of fact supported by secretly recorded videos that I invite you to watch. I am happy to engage in discussion with you. However, I would like to mention the attitude implied by your comment, is probably more appropriate for the YouTube-Truth-Defining department...
    - packetslave 5y ago
      You made a "statement of fact" supported by a link to a site where the headlines include: "Antifa indoctrination in the classroom" "Covid-19 Vaccine Exposed" "FDA Official: ‘Blow Dart’ African Americans with COVID Vaccine is ‘Where We’re Going" I think I can live without "engaging in discussion" with you.
      - belter 5y ago
        Of course some of those titles and the agendas behind them are nuts. But you are confusing the veracity or not of certain facts, with how pleasant you find the messenger... If I see a video of a US President saying no Generals recommended that US troops should stay in Afghanistan, and days later, I see the top US General saying he did recommended to the president to leave 2500 to 3500 troops on the ground...If you happen to watch it on Fox News, it does not make it untrue... In the case of some of the videos I suggested, they relate to Johnson & Johnson vaccines. Lets review, for example, some of the current Lawsuits, including number of claimants they are currently engaged in... Pending Lawsuits Against J&J as of February 2021 ================================================= DePuy ASR XL Acetabular System and DePuy ASR Hip Resurfacing System Number of Lawsuits - 550 Injuries - dislocation, loosening, metallosis (metal poisoning), revision surgeries Pinnacle Acetabular Cup Number of Lawsuits - 7,056 Injuries - dislocation, loosening, metallosis (metal poisoning), revision surgeries Xarelto Number of Lawsuits - 13,511 Injuries - severe, sometimes deadly bleeding events, blood clots, wound leaks, infection Johnson’s Talcum Powder Number of Lawsuits - 27,168 Injuries - ovarian cancer, mesothelioma cancer "The company is facing smaller, emerging litigations for the interstitial cystitis (IC) drug Elmiron and DePuy’s Attune knee implants. Elmiron litigation is in the beginning stages with a handful of cases filed in state courts, but lawyers expect hundreds more. People who filed lawsuits say Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen Pharmaceuticals unit failed to warn them that the drug could cause vision problems, particularly a condition called pigmentary maculopathy." ================================================= Does it sound like you want to get a vaccine from them? According to the CDC, and most of this thread...you are a nutter and vaccine denier if you dont.
HyperRational 5y ago
Do you think the same about flat-earthers? Sometimes people are just plain wrong. Anyone smart enough to work in IT should be able to see the many flaws in anti-vaxx arguments and recognize how effective vaccines are at preventing diseases.
Grim-444 5y ago
I never once in my life considered an anti-vax position until now. I still think previous vaccines are fine as we have had decades of experience making and studying them, and only at the moment am concerned about the brand new mRNA vaccine, but the result of all of the recent events and all of the censoring really has thrown me for a loop and I actually have started reconsidering what I used to just assumed was true. I lost all faith in mass media years ago, haven't watched CNN/etc in years, and now I've lost any faith I had in our institutions such as the CDC and FDA. Censoring any opposition and using full on physical coercion, forcing people to do what they say or else they'll take your job away from you, or else you won't be able to provide for your family, ruins any remaining trust I had in them and now I'm questioning everything that I just blindly trusted was true. I don't know how many years it'll be before I ever trust them again. You may think I'm completely wrong and misled, and that's fine. But the actions these groups are taking are completely undermining themselves, they're completely screwing over their credibility. Not just for this issue, but for every issue into the future, and that is a serious issue. I no longer assume that what the FDA approves is good for use. I no longer assume what the CDC says we should do is what's best for me. The trust is gone. This dystopian situation of removing the voice of anyone who dares question them only further entrenches my doubt.
- Domenic_S 5y ago
  You don't have to trust the FDA or CDC. The mRNA platform is quite old relatively, and millions of doses have been administered with profoundly low adverse effects.

crazy_horse 5y ago

They're making an effort to silence them after allowing rampant misinformation for a year and a half because in the US we still have over 30% of the population not vaccinated and the death toll continues to climb.

leetcrew 5y ago
> after allowing rampant misinformation for a year and a half my recollection is that they started dealing with the "misinformation" early on. they've been ratcheting up the countermeasures the whole time.

raxxorrax 5y ago

I am remorseful at this point. By calculation taking the vaccine is sensible. But very closely so in my age group. There is currently a push to vaccinate children which is technically irresponsible since they won't suffer symptoms and would reach a better immunity they will never get with the vaccine. There is a lot of room for critique and much panic about a serious but not too deadly disease.

ridaj 5y ago
Why do people fear long-term effects of the vaccine (which seem very unlikely in light of past vaccine history) but dismiss equally unknown long-term effects of covid? It is true that most children are not affected by covid in the short term compared with other age groups, but some get neurological disease, and others have gotten "long covid". Those are not the same as the typical vaccine side effects. Feels like maybe a case of the "trolley problem".
- ekianjo 5y ago
  > dismiss equally unknown long-term effects of covid? If you believe vaccines have no potential negative effect beyond 1 week, you'll have to give a serious thought as to why you believe Covid can have long term effects. Also past vaccine history means absolutely nothing. You can't assume the next bridge is built safely just because you have never seen a bridge fall before.
  - shpongled 5y ago
    > If you believe vaccines have no potential negative effect beyond 1 week, you'll have to give a serious thought as to why you believe Covid can have long term effects ...because they are different? A localized, single dose mRNA vaccine that transiently produces spike protein will have a completely different effect than systemic infection with a virus.
  - jlebar 5y ago
    > If you believe vaccines have no potential negative effect beyond 1 week, you'll have to give a serious thought as to why you believe Covid can have long term effects. I mean, covid can kill you, which is kind of a long-term negative effect? Surely you're not arguing that the vaccine is equally likely to have that particularly long-term effect, so then I'd ask why you think it's equally likely to have other long-term effects? > Also past vaccine history means absolutely nothing. You can't assume the next bridge is built safely just because you have never seen a bridge fall before. Really? I mean, do you...generally avoid bridges where you live? It seems to me that if bridges don't collapse frequently, that would indeed be evidence that whoever is building / designing / approving them is doing something right, and that "the next" bridge is also unlikely to collapse?
  - Hallucinaut 5y ago
    That's not what the OP said though. There are two unknowns: effects of long-term COVID, and effect of long-term vaccine. The person you responded to quite clearly suggests it's illogical to ignore long-term effects of COVID in comparing the outcomes. Particularly in light of the actual evidence of neurological effects of COVID, and some evidence of long COVID being more than phantom effect. If you assume a weighted value X for long-term vaccination impacts, but assume a 0 or anything materially less than X for the same for COVID it's just not a consistent evaluation.
longhairedhippy 5y ago
How many people need to die before it's considered a "deadly disease"? As a person in a high risk group, it angers me to hear folks cast my life as disposable and my death as insignificant. I've given up reddit after arguing with all these fools. A simple risk analysis will tell you it was the right thing to do. If you're wrong about the vaccine, you took a shot you may not have needed, if you're wrong about COVID, you're betting your life on it (and other people's as well).
commandlinefan 5y ago
> a push to vaccinate children That's really where I'm most concerned. We vaccinated both of our teenagers - after all, we get the flu shots every year, right? Now I really worry that there will be side effects from this rushed vaccine that we won't know about for decades.
- relaxing 5y ago
  Where does this worry come from? We’ve had 9 months with the vaccine and everyone who gets it is doing great, but you think some problem is going to crop up in 20+ years?
  - Nemrod67 5y ago
    asbestos entered the chat
    - relaxing 5y ago
      A foreign material which when inhaled damages the lungs, you say?
- Hallucinaut 5y ago
  Had you not, you should be equally worried that effectively guaranteeing them COVID, as this isn't going away, puts into their body a neurologically impacting virus, with growing evidence of medium term impacts, whilst in other medical fields a growing body of literature shows viruses can have severe life and wellness impacts decades later (whether that means Chicken Pox with Shingles, or Herpes/Cold sores and Alzheimer's).
  - bwship 5y ago
    Oh yea, I am totally suffering from long term Chicken Pox. Sometimes I scratch my arm where a pox used to be.
    - zucked 5y ago
jlebar 5y ago
It's not true that people get stronger immunity by catching covid. 1/3 of people get no antibodies at all, as compared to 100% of non-immunocompromised people who get vaccinated. https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/574284-natural-covid-19-immunity-is-powerful-but-kind-of-irrelevant https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/574284-natural-covid-... It appears that you too have been a victim of the misinformation that youtube is attempting to mitigate!
- ignasl 5y ago
  If they didn't have antibodies how did they beat covid?
  - andruby 5y ago
    regular immune system. we don't _always_ create (long-term) anti-bodies when fighting a virus.
    - handrous 5y ago
      Yeah, looking at the linked study in the article, it seems folks who fought it off easily (often with low initial viral load) tended to be the ones who consistently tested blood serum antibody-negative. So if you had it and didn't get much more than a cough, there's a fair chance you didn't develop antibodies. Generic and local immune responses beat it in a lot of those cases (I gather), not virus-specific antibodies and a broad system-wide immune response.
Marsymars 5y ago
> would reach a better immunity they will never get with the vaccine. This isn't accurate - there's nothing indicating that the immunity from vaccine + exposure is worse than the immunity from exposure alone.
Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
> There is currently a push to vaccinate children which is technically irresponsible since they won't suffer symptoms Vaccination isn't just about preventing COVID symptoms, but also slowing the spread. > and would reach a better immunity they will never get with the vaccine. Do you have an article about this, preferably one written recently that takes the Delta variant into account? The CDC doesn't really have information about COVID re-infection rates [0], so I'm not sure how much immunity is really given by getting infected compared to getting vaccinated. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfe...
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
"they won't suffer symptoms" Except for the ones who get sick or die of COVID you mean.

simonh 5y ago

None of the material that's being pulled would in any way persuade me that getting vaxxed was a mistake. I'm very happy with my choice and highly recommend it. Most of the material being pulled is pernicious conspiracy rubbish, but too much legitimate discussion, some of which has a chance of persuading anti-vaxxers is being hoovered up in the cull.

pstuart 5y ago

Are you now more interested in child pornography because that's not allowed on youtube?

goldenbikeshed 5y ago

I don't get this. Here in Germany for example holocaust denial is illegal. Assume you are in a country where it's not, say the USA. Assume you slowly witness a rise of naziism that as usual comes with holocaust denial. Now the USA make holocaust denial illegal. Would that make you reconsider if the holocaust really happened? What the anti-vaxxers and their misinformation are doing has lead to the absolutely unnecessary loss of thousands of lifes. Depriving them of any platform is morally imperative.

angelzen 5y ago
Who is the arbiter of good / bad speech? What is the process through society figures out what speech is good and what speech is bad?
- duhast 5y ago
  Level of virality and black box algorithms.
gfodor 5y ago
You don’t have a monopoly on truth. The “anti-vaxxers” are not a monolithic group, and some people who are skeptics of consensus views on the various questions involved will probably be vindicated as other non-consensus views have been so far, which is normal in any chaotic situation where data is limited.
- LightG 5y ago
  Tell that to the regularly highlighted examples of Covid-19 and/or vax deniers who end up ... dead. Scientific, rational debate is ideal on these subjects ... but is that even possible anymore when people are jumping off the deep end so much. David Koresh would be envious.
  - burnafter182 5y ago
    Selection bias, plain and simple.

coldpie 5y ago

Please don't make medical decisions based on crap you read on the Internet, and especially not based on articles about crap other people are reading on the Internet. Talk to a doctor. That's what they're there for.

ekianjo 5y ago
That goes both ways.
cybernautique 5y ago
Devil;s advocacy: then why so much ad spend to push pro-vaxx media? Also vaccinated, not remorseful at all. Wouldn't the responsible messaging be a huge ad wave of "talk to your doctor?" My opinion: this isn't actually a feasible solution. There are not enough doctors for all millions of Americans, let alone all billions of humans, to consult with their doctor. It's also largely unnecessary. I did not consult my doctor. I looked at the situation, assessed my values, did my own cost-benefit analysis, and mediated all of this with a healthy amount of dialogue between my confidantes. As most people do. I think this almost necessarily has to be litigated largely through public engagement. You know your situation, your risks, and you know if a serious consultation is prudential for you. Even still, if the position is "don't make decisions based on biased media," why is the pro-vaxx media more valuable than anti-vaxx or vaxx-hesitant? I believe it resolves entirely to your individual values. The argument should be: why is it profitable to the individual to value one over the other? I can only make this argument from my previously-established values, and I'm already pro-vaxx.
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Talk to your doctor and then get your prescription rejected because Kroger corporate policy overrides your doctor's medical opinion.

idiotsecant 5y ago

Yes anti-vaxxers are looneys. No they shouldn't be removed from the modern public forum because of that. Don't let the two get confused. Just because someone is silencing people with stupid opinions doesn't somehow make those opinions less stupid.

mwigdahl 5y ago
You know that, and I know that. But people who already distrust authority and feel that the mechanisms of culture, finance, and government are biased against them don't agree. They see money, time, and effort being expended by groups they already feel are against them to silence certain views. Of course they're then going to more prone to associate themselves with those views: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
- bwship 5y ago
  MMR vaccine links to autism, total hog wash you smart, smart people say.

scohesc 5y ago

Welcome to the club! Almost two years of "two more weeks and we'll be out of this! just do your duty and we'll be free of this pandemic!" I was very vaccine hesitant and would say I was coerced by government, private businesses (and the governments mandates handed to them), and by my peers. I ended up getting the vaccine recently but I am very scared of the potential consequences. We need the world to rip off the bandaid and open up instead of our leaders prolonging this pandemic to gain more and more power.

hellojesus 5y ago
I fixed any concern by buying long term disability insurance before I got it. May be worth checking out.
rightbyte 5y ago
Wouldn't any long term effect show by now? E.g. Astra Zenica's was pulled after it was shown to give clots. I guess Youtube would supress reports of that now until it became official news ...
- namibj 5y ago
  The initial study was very heavily affected by sampling bias (medical personnel with hallway rumors and unbureocratic access to screening techniques). Add to that that the risk of blood clots is strongly increased by typical isolation at home due to a lack of regular movement/exercise, and the (significant, but still very low) heightened incidence rate isn't enough to deny people vaccination.
wwweston 5y ago
> I am very scared of the potential consequences Any particular reason? I'm someone who was told to be cautious about some vaccines by medical professionals due to a past condition, and so when the covid vaccines started to come available, I both consulted a doctor and did some of my own investigation of things other professionals have published before determining to get vaccinated as soon as possible. Also I've been following VAERS reports since, just to keep a heads up. As far as I can tell, adverse events from vaccination of any kind are orders of magnitude rarer than corresponding adverse effects from infection. And nobody who is saying anything about "long term effects" that might show up later has been able to advance any plausible model for how that would happen considering that's vanishingly rare from vaccination in general.

belter 5y ago

Employees, Scientists and Managers of Vaccine producers, when recorded with hidden cameras, also seem to be vaccine remorseful... "Johnson & Johnson: Children Don’t Need the ‘F*cking’ COVID Vaccine Because There Are ‘Unknown Repercussions Down the Road’ …" https://www.projectveritas.com/news/johnson-and-johnson-children-dont-need-the-f-cking-covid-vaccine-because/ https://www.projectveritas.com/news/johnson-and-johnson-chil...

packetslave 5y ago
GTFO with your conspiracy theory bullshit. "Project Veritas", indeed.
- belter 5y ago
  I made a statement of fact supported by secretly recorded videos that I invite you to watch. I am happy to engage in discussion with you. However, I would like to mention the attitude implied by your comment, is probably more appropriate for the YouTube-Truth-Defining department...
  - packetslave 5y ago
    You made a "statement of fact" supported by a link to a site where the headlines include: "Antifa indoctrination in the classroom" "Covid-19 Vaccine Exposed" "FDA Official: ‘Blow Dart’ African Americans with COVID Vaccine is ‘Where We’re Going" I think I can live without "engaging in discussion" with you.
    - belter 5y ago
      Of course some of those titles and the agendas behind them are nuts. But you are confusing the veracity or not of certain facts, with how pleasant you find the messenger... If I see a video of a US President saying no Generals recommended that US troops should stay in Afghanistan, and days later, I see the top US General saying he did recommended to the president to leave 2500 to 3500 troops on the ground...If you happen to watch it on Fox News, it does not make it untrue... In the case of some of the videos I suggested, they relate to Johnson & Johnson vaccines. Lets review, for example, some of the current Lawsuits, including number of claimants they are currently engaged in... Pending Lawsuits Against J&J as of February 2021 ================================================= DePuy ASR XL Acetabular System and DePuy ASR Hip Resurfacing System Number of Lawsuits - 550 Injuries - dislocation, loosening, metallosis (metal poisoning), revision surgeries Pinnacle Acetabular Cup Number of Lawsuits - 7,056 Injuries - dislocation, loosening, metallosis (metal poisoning), revision surgeries Xarelto Number of Lawsuits - 13,511 Injuries - severe, sometimes deadly bleeding events, blood clots, wound leaks, infection Johnson’s Talcum Powder Number of Lawsuits - 27,168 Injuries - ovarian cancer, mesothelioma cancer "The company is facing smaller, emerging litigations for the interstitial cystitis (IC) drug Elmiron and DePuy’s Attune knee implants. Elmiron litigation is in the beginning stages with a handful of cases filed in state courts, but lawyers expect hundreds more. People who filed lawsuits say Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen Pharmaceuticals unit failed to warn them that the drug could cause vision problems, particularly a condition called pigmentary maculopathy." ================================================= Does it sound like you want to get a vaccine from them? According to the CDC, and most of this thread...you are a nutter and vaccine denier if you dont.

HyperRational 5y ago

Do you think the same about flat-earthers? Sometimes people are just plain wrong. Anyone smart enough to work in IT should be able to see the many flaws in anti-vaxx arguments and recognize how effective vaccines are at preventing diseases.

Grim-444 5y ago

I never once in my life considered an anti-vax position until now. I still think previous vaccines are fine as we have had decades of experience making and studying them, and only at the moment am concerned about the brand new mRNA vaccine, but the result of all of the recent events and all of the censoring really has thrown me for a loop and I actually have started reconsidering what I used to just assumed was true. I lost all faith in mass media years ago, haven't watched CNN/etc in years, and now I've lost any faith I had in our institutions such as the CDC and FDA. Censoring any opposition and using full on physical coercion, forcing people to do what they say or else they'll take your job away from you, or else you won't be able to provide for your family, ruins any remaining trust I had in them and now I'm questioning everything that I just blindly trusted was true. I don't know how many years it'll be before I ever trust them again. You may think I'm completely wrong and misled, and that's fine. But the actions these groups are taking are completely undermining themselves, they're completely screwing over their credibility. Not just for this issue, but for every issue into the future, and that is a serious issue. I no longer assume that what the FDA approves is good for use. I no longer assume what the CDC says we should do is what's best for me. The trust is gone. This dystopian situation of removing the voice of anyone who dares question them only further entrenches my doubt.

Domenic_S 5y ago
You don't have to trust the FDA or CDC. The mRNA platform is quite old relatively, and millions of doses have been administered with profoundly low adverse effects.