14 ms·

From the linked MIT article: > In the run-up to the 2020 election, the most highly contested in US history, Facebook’s most popular pages for Christian and Bla

by doitLP 5y ago

From the linked MIT article: > In the run-up to the 2020 election, the most highly contested in US history, Facebook’s most popular pages for Christian and Black American content were being run by Eastern European troll farms. Why wouldn’t this article mention the Black American content as well? Certainly this is newsworthy, given the crucial implication here: foreign actors were pushing opposite views on many topics in order to manufacture division.

zozbot234 5y ago
A surprising number of Black Americans are Christians, too. Maybe they just got conflated.
- haldunud 5y ago
  > A surprising number of Black Americans are Christians, too. Why's does that surprise you? Christianity is most popular in poor black southern regions. Black people are more likely to be Christians than white people. Christianity is also much stronger in Africa than in the West. I think it's possible in the near future Christianity will become a predominantly black 'thing' worldwide. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/23/black-americans-are-more-likely-than-overall-public-to-be-christian-protestant/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/23/black-ameri...
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    They don't appear much in mainstream media, though. You're more likely to hear about the Nation Of Islam or the Black Hebrew Israelites.
    - haldunud 5y ago
      > They don't appear much in mainstream media, though. Not sure if you're joking? The black evangelical Christian church is a media trope. It's a huge part of many black communities in the US, especially in the south.
    - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
      Citation needed; you seem to be presenting an anecdotal observation as fact.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - bencollier49 5y ago
    Yes! One interesting phenomenon is that the churches originally set up by British missionaries in Africa are now establishing African missions in Britain.
    - datavirtue 5y ago
      OMG it's like a virus.
      - tinco 5y ago
        If it is, then possibly Brittain has developed anti bodies now, and the African missions will be less successful.
  - geoduck14 5y ago
    >> A surprising number of Black Americans are Christians, too. >Why's does that surprise you? To add my POV, the phrase "A surprising number of..." doesn't always mean "I'm surprised". I use that phrase to highlight note worthy facts: E.g. The Tacos are surprisingly tasty (note: Tacos are ALWAYS tasty to me)
  - spoonjim 5y ago
    It’s not exactly “surprising” but the New York City stereotype of a Christian anti-abortion voter is a rural white guy in Alabama but the statistical reality is that it’s a rural black guy in Alabama.
mypastself 5y ago
Crucially, though, the report concludes that the farms’ motivations seem to be monetary. It points out that their content did not focus solely on divisive content, but on whatever generates clicks. Outrage bait is naturally a part of it, but the controversial content seems to be a means rather than the end goal.
- dannyr 5y ago
  So Facebook paid these troll farms and these payments went on to fund operation of these troll farms (I assume). It's a never-ending cycle that benefits both parties.
- rattray 5y ago
  How do they make money?
  - mypastself 5y ago
    Ads, links, and page sales.
  - mavhc 5y ago
    Produce content for idiots who'll believe ads and click on them
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  One way or the other, Facebook now seems to be a pipeline for spreading propaganda: for ad clicks (marketing), ideological reasons, or worse. It’s social utility seems to have dwindled to almost zero, while its negative effects are worse than ever.
  - mypastself 5y ago
    Oh, no argument there. And the report does point out potential relationships with political actors. I’m just amused by the irony of these types of articles making exaggerations and unfounded conclusions.
  - 5y ago
Hasnep 5y ago
Because Relevant is a Christian magazine.
gumby 5y ago
> From the linked MIT article… Just a reminder that that magazine has no connection to MIT. It simply licenses the name from the alumni association (which is how the association funds itself).
- rrss 5y ago
  Isn’t MIT Technology Review published by a company owned by MIT? http://web.mit.edu/fnl/MITPublications/ http://web.mit.edu/fnl/MITPublications/ lists Technology Review as a publication of MIT.
- bmitc 5y ago
  I think that may be outdated information. The terms of service states that it is independent of but owned by MIT. https://www.technologyreview.com/terms-of-service/ https://www.technologyreview.com/terms-of-service/ From what I gather, there was a relaunch in 1998, and MIT has owned it since 2001. In general, I’d be extremely surprised if MIT ever just licensed its name out. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Technology_Review https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Technology_Review
yosito 5y ago
> Why wouldn’t this article mention the Black American content as well? Relevant Magazine isn't a news outlet. It's a Christian culture magazine. So the point of the article is "Hey, our culture is being hijacked", not to give a full picture of what's happening in the news.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- foolinaround 5y ago
  Its not just a Christian culture magazine, it is one whose backers have a BLM slant as well. so, for them, to skip Black American content - pardon the pun, it should be relevant to them too?
  - TootsMagoon 5y ago
    The RELEVANT Story RELEVANT is a multimedia company whose purpose is to impact culture and give voice to what God is doing in and through our generation.......Our Mission We’re twenty- and thirtysomething Christians seeking God and striving to impact the world around us.
    - foolinaround 5y ago
      Did I miss your point? Are you saying that Black American issues are not of concern to the editors of this magazine?
      - chucksta 5y ago
        Or they don't view it as a concern to their readers
jtdev 5y ago
That wouldn’t feed the narrative of conservative Christians being idiot rubes controlled by Russian disinformation and those on the left as being highly educated purveyors of truth.
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  Or because it’s not the focus of this website. Either way, you showed your true colors by using a biased assumption to accuse others of using biased assumptions.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > That wouldn’t feed the narrative of conservative Christians being idiot rubes Yeah, I don’t think that is Relevant’s goal here: https://www.relevantmagazine.com/about/ https://www.relevantmagazine.com/about/ Our Mission We’re twenty- and thirtysomething Christians seeking God and striving to impact the world around us. We are people who want to live well—outwardly, creatively and intentionally. We are pro-Church and want to love our neighbors as ourselves. We serve the Creator, so we love great art—whether that be redemptive music, movies, books or design. We are daily seeking to show how God is at work in the world and in our generation.
  - jtdev 5y ago
    Hmmm, seems they’re recommending readers become radicalized, pick up Kendi, and donate to bail funds for violent “protesters”… nothing to see here: https://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/resources-to-help-you-become-a-better-anti-racist/ https://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/resources-to-help-y...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
jrochkind1 5y ago
In general, I prefer when people posting on HN post the URL to the original reporting, rather than one of the many summaries different venues write riding their coat-tails. In this case, the first sentence ends in "internal documents leaked to MIT Technology Review reveal", with a link -- why not just post the MIT Technology Review article in the first place? [Also, just as an aside, don't forget that obviously many Christians are Black people]. [And also, as far as your original question, if you scroll down in the MIT Tech Review article to the charts from which the headline of this re-report come from, you'll see that the troll farms were particularly successful in their "Christian" positioning, with 19 of the top 20 pages. The other groups targetted, they didn't achieve that level of penetration. This is notable, but I agree the other groups they were targetting is also notable!]
- dkarl 5y ago
  To me, seeing a Christian media outlet cover the story is interesting in itself, so I think this is sufficiently different from the MIT Technology Review article to merit its own post. However, since I don't know what kind of reach Relevant Magazine has among American Christians (and I suspect it's very little) I'm surprised to see it on the front page.
  - jtdev 5y ago
    Relevant Magazine is an Antifa/BLM advocate front. The previous editor was ousted by a mob of woke activist employees because he wasn't "committed" enough to their vision/ideology and efforts to use the magazine as a platform of radical leftist racism/anti-racism. Relevant is now literally encouraging their readers to contribute to Antifa/BLM bail funds: https://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/resources-to-help-you-become-a-better-anti-racist/ https://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/resources-to-help-y...
    - dkarl 5y ago
      They seem pretty open about their beliefs, so I'm not sure why you call them a "front."
    - 5y ago
vmception 5y ago
Other articles have mentioned this before, but in reference to the second half of the entire decade. Almost all "Black Lives Matter"[1][2] and anti-police[3] brutality, and pro-police status quo pages[3] on Facebook were run by foreigners residing in other countries. Some foreigners are firms and keeping score on how many in person protests and counterprotests they can accomplish. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/04/10/facebooks-most-popular-black-lives-matter-page-was-a-scam-run-by-a-white-australian-report-says/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/04... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/business/facebook-black-lives-matter.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/business/facebook-black-l... [3] https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-page-organized-protest-texas-different-russian-page-l/ https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-pag...
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Ah yes the evil foreigners! If it wasn't for them the US would be a harmonious society of love peace and mutual understanding. I always joked to friends that Trump was the Manchurian candidate but I fear the truth was much darker.
SonOfKyuss 5y ago
> Why wouldn’t this article mention the Black American content as well? Certainly this is newsworthy, given the crucial implication here: I can think of a few reasons. 1. The linked website is focused on issues related to religion. 2. The number of people who identify as Christian in the US is likely far greater than the number of people who identify as black activists. 3. Only one of those groups helped elect a Russian asset as president of the US.
- giancarlostoro 5y ago
  > 3 Only one of those groups helped elect a Russian asset I dont usually care for politics but nobody has given me any convincing arguments on the matter. I have seen Russia gain more with Biden shutting down the pipeline. If someone is colluding with you what have they gained thus far? I just don’t see it at all. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ex-lawyer-clinton-campaign-law-firm-pleads-not-guilty-charge-trump-russia-probe-2021-09-17/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ex-lawyer-clinton-campaign-...
  - kadoban 5y ago
    Off the top of my head: Weakening of the US's power in the world. Weaker NATO and EU. Weak/delayed sanctions as a result of Crimea and no other action. Worsening of US/Iran relations, keeping Iran close to Russia. Left Syria to Russia. Ongoing influence in the Republican party, which is now pretty much officially pro-Russia. Edit: this seems like a pretty good list: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia...
    - tzs 5y ago
      Withdrew US from the Treaty on Open Skies [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Open_Skies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Open_Skies
    - giancarlostoro 5y ago
      I don't think our power is any weaker if you're talking about military power. Is the perception around the world about America different? Sure, but we're definitely nowhere near weaker, although now the Taliban has some high tech equipment, let's hope they don't figure out how to maintain and recreate any of it.
fortran77 5y ago
> In the run-up to the 2020 election, the most highly contested in US history, Facebook’s most popular pages for Christian and Black American content were being run by Eastern European troll farms. It's also interesting that these are the groups that have been identified as the best targets for a propaganda campaign. (Edit: You would think this would be successful for a wide variety of groups across the political and social spectrum.)
- jerf 5y ago
  Do you think it's a coincidence that this article is getting clicks on HN specifically? It is implausible that people have noticed that serving "Christians" and "African Americans" content they want to click on is profitable, but nobody has put the data together to realize that they can do the same thing to "Liberals" and other favored groups here on HN. It's just, those articles won't get upvoted and clicked on here. Nobody wants to talk about themselves or their favored groups getting targeted like this. There's plenty of people here reading this and congratulating themselves on how they aren't stupid like those groups, and then rolling straight over to their own content-farmed, clickbaited news solely posted for ad revenue that fits their own ideology one browser tab over. "Those groups are the stupids! Not like imtelligent youse!" is one of the perennial clickbait stories. It's part of the reason why clickbait is so dangerous; a certain amount of division is inevitable, but people deliberately deepening the divisions just to make .0001 cents per view is not!
  - bilbo0s 5y ago
    It is implausible that people have noticed that serving "Christians" and "African Americans" content they want to click on is profitable, but nobody has put the data together to realize that they can do the same thing to "Liberals" and other favored groups here on HN. Touché.
frankfrankfrank 5y ago
Have you ever heard of the Vault 7 WikiLeaks release? You should look into it. In sum: You can't make any assumptions about where anything is emanating from because all of it can be spoofed.

by doitLP 5y ago

zozbot234 5y ago

A surprising number of Black Americans are Christians, too. Maybe they just got conflated.

haldunud 5y ago
> A surprising number of Black Americans are Christians, too. Why's does that surprise you? Christianity is most popular in poor black southern regions. Black people are more likely to be Christians than white people. Christianity is also much stronger in Africa than in the West. I think it's possible in the near future Christianity will become a predominantly black 'thing' worldwide. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/23/black-americans-are-more-likely-than-overall-public-to-be-christian-protestant/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/23/black-ameri...
- zozbot234 5y ago
  They don't appear much in mainstream media, though. You're more likely to hear about the Nation Of Islam or the Black Hebrew Israelites.
  - haldunud 5y ago
    > They don't appear much in mainstream media, though. Not sure if you're joking? The black evangelical Christian church is a media trope. It's a huge part of many black communities in the US, especially in the south.
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    Citation needed; you seem to be presenting an anecdotal observation as fact.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- bencollier49 5y ago
  Yes! One interesting phenomenon is that the churches originally set up by British missionaries in Africa are now establishing African missions in Britain.
  - datavirtue 5y ago
    OMG it's like a virus.
    - tinco 5y ago
      If it is, then possibly Brittain has developed anti bodies now, and the African missions will be less successful.
- geoduck14 5y ago
  >> A surprising number of Black Americans are Christians, too. >Why's does that surprise you? To add my POV, the phrase "A surprising number of..." doesn't always mean "I'm surprised". I use that phrase to highlight note worthy facts: E.g. The Tacos are surprisingly tasty (note: Tacos are ALWAYS tasty to me)
- spoonjim 5y ago
  It’s not exactly “surprising” but the New York City stereotype of a Christian anti-abortion voter is a rural white guy in Alabama but the statistical reality is that it’s a rural black guy in Alabama.

mypastself 5y ago

Crucially, though, the report concludes that the farms’ motivations seem to be monetary. It points out that their content did not focus solely on divisive content, but on whatever generates clicks. Outrage bait is naturally a part of it, but the controversial content seems to be a means rather than the end goal.

dannyr 5y ago
So Facebook paid these troll farms and these payments went on to fund operation of these troll farms (I assume). It's a never-ending cycle that benefits both parties.
rattray 5y ago
How do they make money?
- mypastself 5y ago
  Ads, links, and page sales.
- mavhc 5y ago
  Produce content for idiots who'll believe ads and click on them
rich_sasha 5y ago
One way or the other, Facebook now seems to be a pipeline for spreading propaganda: for ad clicks (marketing), ideological reasons, or worse. It’s social utility seems to have dwindled to almost zero, while its negative effects are worse than ever.
- mypastself 5y ago
  Oh, no argument there. And the report does point out potential relationships with political actors. I’m just amused by the irony of these types of articles making exaggerations and unfounded conclusions.
- 5y ago

Hasnep 5y ago

Because Relevant is a Christian magazine.

gumby 5y ago

> From the linked MIT article… Just a reminder that that magazine has no connection to MIT. It simply licenses the name from the alumni association (which is how the association funds itself).

rrss 5y ago
Isn’t MIT Technology Review published by a company owned by MIT? http://web.mit.edu/fnl/MITPublications/ http://web.mit.edu/fnl/MITPublications/ lists Technology Review as a publication of MIT.
bmitc 5y ago
I think that may be outdated information. The terms of service states that it is independent of but owned by MIT. https://www.technologyreview.com/terms-of-service/ https://www.technologyreview.com/terms-of-service/ From what I gather, there was a relaunch in 1998, and MIT has owned it since 2001. In general, I’d be extremely surprised if MIT ever just licensed its name out. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Technology_Review https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Technology_Review

yosito 5y ago

> Why wouldn’t this article mention the Black American content as well? Relevant Magazine isn't a news outlet. It's a Christian culture magazine. So the point of the article is "Hey, our culture is being hijacked", not to give a full picture of what's happening in the news.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
foolinaround 5y ago
Its not just a Christian culture magazine, it is one whose backers have a BLM slant as well. so, for them, to skip Black American content - pardon the pun, it should be relevant to them too?
- TootsMagoon 5y ago
  The RELEVANT Story RELEVANT is a multimedia company whose purpose is to impact culture and give voice to what God is doing in and through our generation.......Our Mission We’re twenty- and thirtysomething Christians seeking God and striving to impact the world around us.
  - foolinaround 5y ago
    Did I miss your point? Are you saying that Black American issues are not of concern to the editors of this magazine?
    - chucksta 5y ago
      Or they don't view it as a concern to their readers

jtdev 5y ago

That wouldn’t feed the narrative of conservative Christians being idiot rubes controlled by Russian disinformation and those on the left as being highly educated purveyors of truth.

long_time_gone 5y ago
Or because it’s not the focus of this website. Either way, you showed your true colors by using a biased assumption to accuse others of using biased assumptions.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> That wouldn’t feed the narrative of conservative Christians being idiot rubes Yeah, I don’t think that is Relevant’s goal here: https://www.relevantmagazine.com/about/ https://www.relevantmagazine.com/about/ Our Mission We’re twenty- and thirtysomething Christians seeking God and striving to impact the world around us. We are people who want to live well—outwardly, creatively and intentionally. We are pro-Church and want to love our neighbors as ourselves. We serve the Creator, so we love great art—whether that be redemptive music, movies, books or design. We are daily seeking to show how God is at work in the world and in our generation.
- jtdev 5y ago
  Hmmm, seems they’re recommending readers become radicalized, pick up Kendi, and donate to bail funds for violent “protesters”… nothing to see here: https://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/resources-to-help-you-become-a-better-anti-racist/ https://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/resources-to-help-y...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

jrochkind1 5y ago

In general, I prefer when people posting on HN post the URL to the original reporting, rather than one of the many summaries different venues write riding their coat-tails. In this case, the first sentence ends in "internal documents leaked to MIT Technology Review reveal", with a link -- why not just post the MIT Technology Review article in the first place? [Also, just as an aside, don't forget that obviously many Christians are Black people]. [And also, as far as your original question, if you scroll down in the MIT Tech Review article to the charts from which the headline of this re-report come from, you'll see that the troll farms were particularly successful in their "Christian" positioning, with 19 of the top 20 pages. The other groups targetted, they didn't achieve that level of penetration. This is notable, but I agree the other groups they were targetting is also notable!]

dkarl 5y ago
To me, seeing a Christian media outlet cover the story is interesting in itself, so I think this is sufficiently different from the MIT Technology Review article to merit its own post. However, since I don't know what kind of reach Relevant Magazine has among American Christians (and I suspect it's very little) I'm surprised to see it on the front page.
- jtdev 5y ago
  Relevant Magazine is an Antifa/BLM advocate front. The previous editor was ousted by a mob of woke activist employees because he wasn't "committed" enough to their vision/ideology and efforts to use the magazine as a platform of radical leftist racism/anti-racism. Relevant is now literally encouraging their readers to contribute to Antifa/BLM bail funds: https://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/resources-to-help-you-become-a-better-anti-racist/ https://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/resources-to-help-y...
  - dkarl 5y ago
    They seem pretty open about their beliefs, so I'm not sure why you call them a "front."
  - 5y ago

vmception 5y ago

Other articles have mentioned this before, but in reference to the second half of the entire decade. Almost all "Black Lives Matter"[1][2] and anti-police[3] brutality, and pro-police status quo pages[3] on Facebook were run by foreigners residing in other countries. Some foreigners are firms and keeping score on how many in person protests and counterprotests they can accomplish. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/04/10/facebooks-most-popular-black-lives-matter-page-was-a-scam-run-by-a-white-australian-report-says/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/04... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/business/facebook-black-lives-matter.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/business/facebook-black-l... [3] https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-page-organized-protest-texas-different-russian-page-l/ https://www.texastribune.org/2017/11/01/russian-facebook-pag...

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

Ah yes the evil foreigners! If it wasn't for them the US would be a harmonious society of love peace and mutual understanding. I always joked to friends that Trump was the Manchurian candidate but I fear the truth was much darker.

SonOfKyuss 5y ago

> Why wouldn’t this article mention the Black American content as well? Certainly this is newsworthy, given the crucial implication here: I can think of a few reasons. 1. The linked website is focused on issues related to religion. 2. The number of people who identify as Christian in the US is likely far greater than the number of people who identify as black activists. 3. Only one of those groups helped elect a Russian asset as president of the US.

giancarlostoro 5y ago
> 3 Only one of those groups helped elect a Russian asset I dont usually care for politics but nobody has given me any convincing arguments on the matter. I have seen Russia gain more with Biden shutting down the pipeline. If someone is colluding with you what have they gained thus far? I just don’t see it at all. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ex-lawyer-clinton-campaign-law-firm-pleads-not-guilty-charge-trump-russia-probe-2021-09-17/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ex-lawyer-clinton-campaign-...
- kadoban 5y ago
  Off the top of my head: Weakening of the US's power in the world. Weaker NATO and EU. Weak/delayed sanctions as a result of Crimea and no other action. Worsening of US/Iran relations, keeping Iran close to Russia. Left Syria to Russia. Ongoing influence in the Republican party, which is now pretty much officially pro-Russia. Edit: this seems like a pretty good list: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia...
  - tzs 5y ago
    Withdrew US from the Treaty on Open Skies [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Open_Skies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Open_Skies
  - giancarlostoro 5y ago
    I don't think our power is any weaker if you're talking about military power. Is the perception around the world about America different? Sure, but we're definitely nowhere near weaker, although now the Taliban has some high tech equipment, let's hope they don't figure out how to maintain and recreate any of it.

fortran77 5y ago

> In the run-up to the 2020 election, the most highly contested in US history, Facebook’s most popular pages for Christian and Black American content were being run by Eastern European troll farms. It's also interesting that these are the groups that have been identified as the best targets for a propaganda campaign. (Edit: You would think this would be successful for a wide variety of groups across the political and social spectrum.)

jerf 5y ago
Do you think it's a coincidence that this article is getting clicks on HN specifically? It is implausible that people have noticed that serving "Christians" and "African Americans" content they want to click on is profitable, but nobody has put the data together to realize that they can do the same thing to "Liberals" and other favored groups here on HN. It's just, those articles won't get upvoted and clicked on here. Nobody wants to talk about themselves or their favored groups getting targeted like this. There's plenty of people here reading this and congratulating themselves on how they aren't stupid like those groups, and then rolling straight over to their own content-farmed, clickbaited news solely posted for ad revenue that fits their own ideology one browser tab over. "Those groups are the stupids! Not like imtelligent youse!" is one of the perennial clickbait stories. It's part of the reason why clickbait is so dangerous; a certain amount of division is inevitable, but people deliberately deepening the divisions just to make .0001 cents per view is not!
- bilbo0s 5y ago
  It is implausible that people have noticed that serving "Christians" and "African Americans" content they want to click on is profitable, but nobody has put the data together to realize that they can do the same thing to "Liberals" and other favored groups here on HN. Touché.

frankfrankfrank 5y ago

Have you ever heard of the Vault 7 WikiLeaks release? You should look into it. In sum: You can't make any assumptions about where anything is emanating from because all of it can be spoofed.