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My wife and I are particularly concerned about lead, especially since there is no way to really cure lead poisoning. Any house built before the 1980s could hav
by roland35 5y ago
My wife and I are particularly concerned about lead, especially since there is no way to really cure lead poisoning. Any house built before the 1980s could have lead in it, with varying degrees of concern for children. Around the home here is what we found are sources of lead to worry about (or not):
- Paint: lead was banned in paint in 1979, but lead was used less and less even before the cutoff date. Paint is especially a problem when it is chipping or wearing off, like on windows or doors.
- Plumbing. Very old homes may have lead pipes which should be removed. Lead solder was used with copper pipes until ~1984, but this is somewhat less of a concern, depending on your water source (cities can change the water to leach less lead from pipes).
- Plumbing fixtures: this is actually a pretty major source of lead in water, and luckily it is easy to change old faucets. You can run water for a minute to mitigate risk with old faucets.
- Flooring: Lead can be in any ceramic tiles, but generally not too much. It is only a problem if you are removing tiles and are creating lots of dust.
https://www.epa.gov/lead https://www.epa.gov/lead
- neaden 5y agoDon't forget the soil in your yard, even if the house was built yesterday the soil could still have lead contamination from leaded gasoline.
- patja 5y agoAnd decades of paint chips from previous exterior paint prep that may not have been well-contained.
- ljf 5y agoUK suburban soil can also be bad as people used to throw fireplace ashes in their gardens, which can concentrate contaminants. I ate from my home allotment for years until a neighbour told me he had recently tested his soil and found it heavy with lead and other rubbish.
- agumonkey 5y agodid he find a way to de-pollute ?
- xxpor 5y agoIn South King County and Pierce County, WA (south of Seattle), the basic advice is to not grow any food directly in the ground without having your soil tested first for arsenic. There was a copper smelter in Tacoma for decades, and now everything basically within a 20 mile radius is contaminated. https://ecology.wa.gov/Spills-Cleanup/Contamination-cleanup/Cleanup-sites/Tacoma-smelter https://ecology.wa.gov/Spills-Cleanup/Contamination-cleanup/... https://apps.ecology.wa.gov/dirtalert/?lat=47.349229&lon=-122.564545&zoom=10 https://apps.ecology.wa.gov/dirtalert/?lat=47.349229&lon=-12... (not exactly a circle due to the topography and wind patterns of the area) The point is, there was a lot of nasty industrial activity in this country pre Clean Air Act. Everyone should be concerned and get their property tested IMO, especially if you have kids. I'm not trying to be alarmist; it doesn't affect my day to day life, it's just something to know. I still grow veggies in my garden, I just use raised beds and dirt from bags from Home Depot.
- bcrosby95 5y agoThis place is somewhat near us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Susana_Field_Laboratory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Susana_Field_Laboratory Among other things (including a nuclear meltdown): > On 11 December 2002, a Department of Energy (DOE) official, Mike Lopez, described typical clean-up procedures executed by Field Lab employees in the past. Workers would dispose of barrels filled with highly toxic waste by shooting the barrels with rifles so that they would explode and release their contents into the air. It is unclear when this process ended, but for certain did end prior to the 1990s.[29] Trying to get it cleaned up has been a shitshow.
- huwnang 5y agoI grew up on a farm where the property has since been divided up and houses built. I remember how my parents were about gasoline for washing paint brushes and old motor oil for painting fences and burning plastics and electronics in the burn barrel. Who knows what happened to pesticide containers. There was a stack of lead pipes I played with occasionally. No idea what pipes were in the house, but it was old, so. And I totally wonder whether people are growing food there, soaking all of that up.
- shard 5y agoI found that my backyard soil has very low lead levels from the UMass Soil & Plant Nutrient Testing Laboratory. You can test your soil lead levels, along with nutrient contents of your soil as it pertains to the types of plants you have by sending a sample and $20 to UMass: https://ag.umass.edu/services/soil-plant-nutrient-testing-laboratory/ordering-information-forms https://ag.umass.edu/services/soil-plant-nutrient-testing-la... I just found that the University of New Hampshire offers a similar test with an additional heavy metals package available which covers cadmium, chromium, copper, lead, nickel & zinc: https://extension.unh.edu/resource/soil-testing-forms https://extension.unh.edu/resource/soil-testing-forms
- flurie 5y agoI have another surprising addition to that list: Christmas lights.
- jeffbee 5y agoAll high-temperature wire insulation contains lead. But are these significant sources of available environmental lead?
- nate_meurer 5y agoNo, a lot of PVC wire insulation contains no lead. For example, all wire meant to be sold in the EU must be ROHS complaint, and thus contain no lead. Many US manufacturers are also compliant, and the number is growing. Many manufacturers state this explicitly on their websites (e.g. Tripp Lite and Southwire, to take two random examples). Many others can be identified by either an RoHS designation or lack of CA Prop 65 warning for lead. The answer to your second question is yes, handling cords with heavily leaded insulation can cause significant amounts of lead to rub off on your hands. This is easily seen with a Lead-Check swab, which will turn red when wiped either on the cord, or even on your fingers after you've spent some time handling the cord.
- caeril 5y ago> all wire meant to be sold in the EU must be ROHS complaint Just an aside, this is a personal gripe. I grew up on lead solder, making Heathkit projects with my dad. I tried re-engaging with the electronics hobby as an adult, decades later, in a world filled with ROHS solder, and I have to say it is a huge pain in the ass to work with. Adhesion, balling issues, etc, regardless of core type, flux, etc, even on nice controlled-temp Hakko stations, versus the Weller crap irons of my youth. Maybe I'm just a grumpy old man, or maybe my memories are covered with rose glasses. But electronics seemed be more enjoyable in the lead era. And to my knowledge, my IQ did not suffer.
- nate_meurer 5y ago> "And to my knowledge, my IQ did not suffer." I suspect the opposite. I grew up eating off of lead-contaminated Lenox dishes, playing with fishing weights and mercury from broken thermostats, and other stimulating but toxic activities. I strongly suspect these things account for at least some of the attention deficit and impulse control issues I now struggle with as an adult. I'm sure your IQ is more than adequate, but you have no way of knowing what it would be if your brain was kept cleaner in your youth. For my part, I'd love to be smarter.
- calibas 5y agoFor plumbing, they switched to "lead-free" pipes, which is rather misleading as "lead-free" means up to 8% lead. It wasn't until 2011 that they redefined "lead-free" as being no more than 0.25% lead. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/09/01/2020-16869/use-of-lead-free-pipes-fittings-fixtures-solder-and-flux-for-drinking-water https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/09/01/2020-16...
- magicalhippo 5y agoThat's straight out of Monty Python's rat tart skit[1]... "We got Acme's new Lead-free plumbing!" "Lead-free plumbing? As in no lead?" "Well 8 percent... rather a lot really..." [1]: https://youtu.be/bAs1_FxTyFs?t=198 https://youtu.be/bAs1_FxTyFs?t=198
- mLuby 5y agoThat's absurd. How did they not run afoul of false advertising laws? (Oh, that federalregister.gov link says "The RLDWA revised the definition of lead free.") My layperson expectations: • "low-X": < 1/3 is X. • "trace amounts of X": <1% is X. • "X-free": no reasonably detectable amount is X. Obviously there's some wiggle room for how sensitive the detectors are, but it should be less that "trace amounts," i.e. 0%. This reminds me of "waterproof" which generally just means it can survive being splashed or rained on for a few minutes, but not submerged.
- WalterBright 5y agoYou can also get lead from crystal glassware. I don't use mine anymore, they're just a decoration.
- stock_toaster 5y ago"fancy" liquor decanters are often some of the worst offenders, because the alcohol increases the leaching speed of the lead from the glass. https://scotchaddict.com/are-leaded-crystal-decanters-dangerous.html https://scotchaddict.com/are-leaded-crystal-decanters-danger...
- kasey_junk 5y agoFor plumbing specifically you _also_ have to worry about every link in the chain from your house to the water source. Perhaps non-intuitively just knowing if there are lead pipes because they can develop a protective sediment layer that prevents the lead from touching the water. Anecdotally, we had a major city water line project in our neighborhood that _raised_ our lead levels because it disturbed that sediment protection. The only real solution is testing and filtering at point of use. But even filtering is hard because most water filters sold are for flavor not for lead.
- willis936 5y agoThe right solution is installing a reverse osmosis filter system (which includes mechanical and charcoal filters) at the house or tap level. Water's not one of those things people should cheap out on. We, as a society, can afford to not have this be an issue. We're not quite to that realization yet. To be clear: I'm not saying the burden of cost should be solely put on renters/homeowners.
- Cd00d 5y agoCan you go into this in a bit of detail? I thought reverse osmosis water wasn't great to drink, because it's essentially de-ionized water. So, the water has no choice but to rip ions out of your cells. But, I've never looked into biology enough to understand. I did work in a lab back in the day where one of the students was filling his water bottle from the DI tap, because he preferred the taste. He didn't drop dead or anything. I clearly have just enough of the details to not understand.
- tguvot 5y agoRO systems usually do not include DI filter.
- cryptoquick 5y agoSome RO systems include an alkalinization / re-mineralization stage. I use this one: https://www.expresswater.com/pages/ro-alkaline-uv https://www.expresswater.com/pages/ro-alkaline-uv
- scrooched_moose 5y agoWorth adding that lead test kits are pretty cheap at any big box store and easy to use: https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-LeadCheck-Instant-Lead-Test-Swabs-2-Pack-LC-2SDC6/203313743 https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-LeadCheck-Instant-Lead-Test-S... (this actually seems expensive, I'm used to closer to $2-3 per stick) We have an early 20th century house and run them over anything we're about to demo. So far we've been lucky, so likely a later renovation removed most of the lead that would have been there.
- lsllc 5y agoOther hazards in flooring include asbestos. In general, flooring tiles installed between 1920 and 1980 (in the US at least) can contain asbestos, in particular (but not limited to 9x9 tiles). https://www.bobvila.com/articles/asbestos-floor-tiles/ https://www.bobvila.com/articles/asbestos-floor-tiles/
- ch4s3 5y agoYou can treat it with chelation or EDTA. The drugs bind to lead and your body clears it out via the kidneys. Works well if you catch it early. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisoning/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20354723 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisonin...
- utexaspunk 5y agoDoes that reverse the brain damage?
- ch4s3 5y agoNo, obviously not it just strips lead out of you bloodstream and cells.
- graeme 5y agoIf you only find out later, is it any use at all? I found out my drinking water had low levels of lead, for about ten years.
- nickff 5y agoNot a doctor, but my understanding is that low levels of lead are most impactful on children. Using chelation on adults with low levels of lead may create more problems than it solves.
- fighterpilot 5y agoHow did you find out. What test?
- graeme 5y agoThe city sent by an engineer in training with a lead meter. Not sure of the nature of the test but there are standard ones for lead.
- amelius 5y ago
- zz865 5y ago> Any house built before the 1980s could have lead in it, Which essentially means its normal for everyone except some people born in the last 20-30 years.
- jcrben 5y agoSources outside the home include avgas which is the largest source for lead in the atmosphere https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/leaded-gas-was-phased-out-25-years-ago-why-are-n1264970 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/leaded-gas-wa...
- outworlder 5y ago> Sources outside the home include avgas which is the largest source for lead in the atmosphere In the atmosphere, sure (as it is not naturally occurring in the air). But how large is this source? And what harm does it actually cause? There are indications that the levels of lead around airports are very low - even the article linked said that ~2.5% of children around the airport had "detectable" levels of lead. But it doesn't provide enough data to tell if the contamination came from the air. If this was significant, wouldn't many more children around the airport have high (not only detectable) levels of lead? Everyone has to breathe, but not everyone has the same contamination sources. From Wikipedia: > Final results from EPA's lead modeling study at the Santa Monica Airport shows off-airport levels below current 150 ng/m3 and possible future 20 ng/m3 levels.[108] Fifteen of 17 airports monitored during a year-long study in the US by the EPA have lead emissions well below the current National Ambient Air Quality Standard (NAAQS) for lead.[109] To be safe, obviously we want to reduce all exposure to zero. Avgas was changed in formulation to reduce lead. There are alternatives to avgas - in Europe, avgas is already hard to find. Automotive gasoline conversions are available for some widely used engines. The problem is that you can't just take it to a shop and covert it - the airplane was originally certified with one engine type. If it is changed, it is no longer certified. No company is willing to eat the costs to re-certify - for the planes that are still in production. Let alone planes made by companies that no longer exist. In the 'experimental' category, there are many types of engines that can directly burn either avgas or "mogas". Some manufacturers, like Diamond, can use "jet fuel" (essentially, diesel) in their piston engines (as they have their own engines, based on diesel car engines). But even they will have avgas-burning versions (with Lycoming engines) for the US market. Then you have competing agencies dragging their feet. There's the EPA, which should be issuing regulations. Then there's the FAA that needs to come up with a solution with the certification issue - they are pretty underfunded so it's unlikely they will. One agency points the finger to the other, none take action. I'm probably missing other agencies. There are alternatives in development - without a full government push, progress is slow. Meanwhile, planes (and many helicopters) in the US keep spewing lead. Many of which provide important services.