8 ms·

Free trade, only good when you're on top. Also these equipments have been produced in China for decades, even western branded ones, and there is still no proof

Free trade, only good when you're on top. Also these equipments have been produced in China for decades, even western branded ones, and there is still no proof that they pose any security risk. As opposed to USA companies well documented to spy USA allies, and their own population, for government agencies

dleslie 5y ago
Yes, Huawei has never done anything untoward. /s There's a whole section[0], and another entire page[1] on Wikipedia detailing accusations against them. China, too, has quite the detailed presence[2]. So let's not pretend they're trustworthy. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_intelligence_activity_abroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_intelligence_activity_...
- Dah00n 5y ago
  I'm sorry but this is a very low effort post that a quick look at any article about Snowden's revelations would crush. Wikipedia simply cannot be used like this. You might as well count words on pro and against articles. Especially not useful as most facts in this area are at best poisoned facts -knowledge that has a biased source that cannot be trusted like the US intelligence community- and you are using a mainly US English site which in itself will have a bias against China. If you really do want to compare you could compare proven backdoors (which would destroy Cisco but not Huawei) instead of looking at accusations, which is pointless.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    If you take a look at the Criticism of Huawei page, you'll find that it contains far more than accusations.
    - DaftDank 5y ago
      The "Talk" page for that article fleshes out a lot of things as well.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  I would mention that you can find an equal amount of controversies, if not vast amounts more, about the US government, and that there are entire agencies that manipulate media and Wikipedia articles. An accusation is far from a finding of fact and a discovered peer-reviewed exploit. Also, the US could seem to care less if the home routers, modems, phones, and other equipment made in China are backdoored that these business employees are still using.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    Of course there exists plenty of evidence of American surveillance. But when the USA spies, it does so in the interests of the American state and in the shared interests of the Five Eyes. When China spies it does so in the interest of China. For Americans, or citizens of the Five Eyes, there is at least some aligned interest with the state they inhabit and some political recourse available within it. Nothing like that exists for them with China.
    - dirtyid 5y ago
      >citizens of the Five Eyes, there is at least some aligned interest The FVEY surveilliance sharing mechanism is designed explicitly to circumvent limits on domestic spying by domestic agencies. It is quite literally an institution designed to undermine the civilian interests of Five Eye countries. AU Prime Minsiter Turnbull literally admitted the reason why Huawei was banned from AU networks was because Huawei hardware made it harder to surveil on AU/FVEY citizens.
      - dleslie 5y ago
        I am aware; being spied on by allies is still a world of difference than being spied on by China, or Russia, or Iran, or other adversarial nations. At the very least, citizens of Five Eyes nations can attempt to end it by contacting their representatives.
        encryptluks2 5y ago
- guilhas 5y ago
  So many allegations and accusations, solid case right there Also for most points, you could just replace Huawei with any big USA technology company
  - dleslie 5y ago
    Yes, American companies also engage in surveillance; we know that to be true. For Americans, and citizens of the Five Eyes, that is a world of difference than being spied on by China. At least those citizens have aligned interests and political recourse with their states; with China, they have no such relationship.
    - ZoomerCretin 5y ago
      > At least those citizens have aligned interests and political recourse with their states; I’m curious to know what recourse you think western citizens have for unknown abuses from their governments’ surveillance states.
      - dleslie 5y ago
        Elections
        fortuna86 5y ago
        Whistleblowers that don't get disappeared alongside their families.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
tw04 5y ago
I'm curious which US manufacturer directly stole source code from a Chinese manufacturer to create a competing product. China has never been interested in free trade. They've been interested in free flow of trade secrets into China and free flow out of competing products at a reduced price built off those trade secrets. https://web.archive.org/web/20110915023155/http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jul2004/tc20040730_5618_tc024.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20110915023155/http://www.busine... https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10485560675556000 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10485560675556000 https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/06/business/t-mobile-accuses-huawei-of-theft-from-laboratory.html?_r=1 https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/06/business/t-mobile-accuses... All of that is ignoring Nortel...
- guilhas 5y ago
  Uh they stole scraps here and there... they are years ahead on 5G technology
  - fortuna86 5y ago
    Amusing response. Kind of like telling a victim of a crime their stolen stuff wasn't worth anything anyways. After first insisting there was no crime.
- DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
  Nortel collapsed long before Huawei even began expanding out of China. The recent attempts to blame China for Nortel's collapse don't even make basic chronological sense.

dleslie 5y ago

Yes, Huawei has never done anything untoward. /s There's a whole section[0], and another entire page[1] on Wikipedia detailing accusations against them. China, too, has quite the detailed presence[2]. So let's not pretend they're trustworthy. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Huawei 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_intelligence_activity_abroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_intelligence_activity_...

Dah00n 5y ago
I'm sorry but this is a very low effort post that a quick look at any article about Snowden's revelations would crush. Wikipedia simply cannot be used like this. You might as well count words on pro and against articles. Especially not useful as most facts in this area are at best poisoned facts -knowledge that has a biased source that cannot be trusted like the US intelligence community- and you are using a mainly US English site which in itself will have a bias against China. If you really do want to compare you could compare proven backdoors (which would destroy Cisco but not Huawei) instead of looking at accusations, which is pointless.
- dleslie 5y ago
  If you take a look at the Criticism of Huawei page, you'll find that it contains far more than accusations.
  - DaftDank 5y ago
    The "Talk" page for that article fleshes out a lot of things as well.
encryptluks2 5y ago
I would mention that you can find an equal amount of controversies, if not vast amounts more, about the US government, and that there are entire agencies that manipulate media and Wikipedia articles. An accusation is far from a finding of fact and a discovered peer-reviewed exploit. Also, the US could seem to care less if the home routers, modems, phones, and other equipment made in China are backdoored that these business employees are still using.
- dleslie 5y ago
  Of course there exists plenty of evidence of American surveillance. But when the USA spies, it does so in the interests of the American state and in the shared interests of the Five Eyes. When China spies it does so in the interest of China. For Americans, or citizens of the Five Eyes, there is at least some aligned interest with the state they inhabit and some political recourse available within it. Nothing like that exists for them with China.
  - dirtyid 5y ago
    >citizens of the Five Eyes, there is at least some aligned interest The FVEY surveilliance sharing mechanism is designed explicitly to circumvent limits on domestic spying by domestic agencies. It is quite literally an institution designed to undermine the civilian interests of Five Eye countries. AU Prime Minsiter Turnbull literally admitted the reason why Huawei was banned from AU networks was because Huawei hardware made it harder to surveil on AU/FVEY citizens.
    - dleslie 5y ago
      I am aware; being spied on by allies is still a world of difference than being spied on by China, or Russia, or Iran, or other adversarial nations. At the very least, citizens of Five Eyes nations can attempt to end it by contacting their representatives.
      - encryptluks2 5y ago
guilhas 5y ago
So many allegations and accusations, solid case right there Also for most points, you could just replace Huawei with any big USA technology company
- dleslie 5y ago
  Yes, American companies also engage in surveillance; we know that to be true. For Americans, and citizens of the Five Eyes, that is a world of difference than being spied on by China. At least those citizens have aligned interests and political recourse with their states; with China, they have no such relationship.
  - ZoomerCretin 5y ago
    > At least those citizens have aligned interests and political recourse with their states; I’m curious to know what recourse you think western citizens have for unknown abuses from their governments’ surveillance states.
    - dleslie 5y ago
      Elections
      - fortuna86 5y ago
        Whistleblowers that don't get disappeared alongside their families.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]

tw04 5y ago

I'm curious which US manufacturer directly stole source code from a Chinese manufacturer to create a competing product. China has never been interested in free trade. They've been interested in free flow of trade secrets into China and free flow out of competing products at a reduced price built off those trade secrets. https://web.archive.org/web/20110915023155/http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jul2004/tc20040730_5618_tc024.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20110915023155/http://www.busine... https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10485560675556000 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10485560675556000 https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/06/business/t-mobile-accuses-huawei-of-theft-from-laboratory.html?_r=1 https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/06/business/t-mobile-accuses... All of that is ignoring Nortel...

guilhas 5y ago
Uh they stole scraps here and there... they are years ahead on 5G technology
- fortuna86 5y ago
  Amusing response. Kind of like telling a victim of a crime their stolen stuff wasn't worth anything anyways. After first insisting there was no crime.
DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
Nortel collapsed long before Huawei even began expanding out of China. The recent attempts to blame China for Nortel's collapse don't even make basic chronological sense.