4 ms·

I'm a Londoner near some of the affected areas. The sky is not falling, London is not degenerating into lawlessness, and from what I can see from my flat window

I'm a Londoner near some of the affected areas. The sky is not falling, London is not degenerating into lawlessness, and from what I can see from my flat window, police are responding quickly. Other areas may be different, but London is a very large city - commenters should remember that in discussions.

abcd_f 15y ago
So what was the trigger that started the riots?
- eru 15y ago
  I heard some bloke was shot by the police.
- ColinWright 15y ago
  Originally there was a peaceful protest over the shooting of a young man during a police operation. that seems to have been hijacked by mobs intent purely on violence. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14450248 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14450248 The initial areas are fairly poor and have a history of tension with the police, but the disturbances tonight seem simply to be youths intent on causing damage and looting. I'm not in London, these are my impressions to give you a quick answer. They may not hold up to future scrutiny. Also: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14442935 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14442935
  - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
    The mobs bent purely on violence were probably this guys friends based on the reported gang links of the guy that was shot.
- ollysb 15y ago
  This is what triggered it off, http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/05/man-shot-police-london-arrest http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/05/man-shot-police-... and here's a little background context http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-london-riots http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-...
- pbhjpbhj 15y ago
  It appears a known criminal (gangs, drug-dealing) with a loaded handgun was shot by police while resisting arrest; he may or may not have shot a police officer [first] at the time of his arrest ... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/a-dead-man-a-crucial-question-should-police-have-shot-mark-duggan-2334133.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/a-dead-man-a-cruc... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8687403/London-riots-Dead-man-Mark-Duggan-was-a-known-gangster-who-lived-by-the-gun.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8687403... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/mark-duggan-profile-tottenham-shooting http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/mark-duggan-profile...
  - polshaw 15y ago
    relevant to note that subsequent rioting has had little to do with this. (more general) anger towards the police, along with opportunistic looting.
    - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
      >(more general) anger towards the police So if it's not gangs trying to violent show their power then what is the motivation in your opinion? Why sudden anger towards the police _from the general populus_? FWIW the buzz appears to be "send in the troops" rather than this being in any way justified demonstration (like maybe G8 demonstrations).
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- yread 15y ago
  I really liked this commentary http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/tottenham-riots-not-unexpected http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/tottenha... although you might disagree with him, at least it states quite clearly a reason why are people rioting.
mcrider 15y ago
That's even scarier. When we had our (ridiculous) riots here in Vancouver a couple months back, it was all in one area. Many will argue that the cops didn't do a great job keeping it under control, but at least they kept everything in a relatively small zone away from residential areas, and it petered out over the night. Doesn't the fact that they're springing up all over London point to there being a systemic problem that is provoking people to more violence? How many days has this been going on now, three? Is there an end in sight?
- abcd_f 15y ago
  London is a much larger city with what seems like a lower quality of life for many people. Basically the number of potential rioteers in London is way higher than in Vancouver, so it is logical that their riots will be stronger and longer when they do spark.
LoonyPandora 15y ago
I don't want to turn this into a rumour thread, the news sites can keep people up to date. I just want people to keep in mind that the news will be sensationalist, and not to think that the entire city is in flames.

abcd_f 15y ago

So what was the trigger that started the riots?

eru 15y ago
I heard some bloke was shot by the police.
ColinWright 15y ago
Originally there was a peaceful protest over the shooting of a young man during a police operation. that seems to have been hijacked by mobs intent purely on violence. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14450248 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14450248 The initial areas are fairly poor and have a history of tension with the police, but the disturbances tonight seem simply to be youths intent on causing damage and looting. I'm not in London, these are my impressions to give you a quick answer. They may not hold up to future scrutiny. Also: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14442935 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14442935
- pbhjpbhj 15y ago
  The mobs bent purely on violence were probably this guys friends based on the reported gang links of the guy that was shot.
ollysb 15y ago
This is what triggered it off, http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/05/man-shot-police-london-arrest http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/05/man-shot-police-... and here's a little background context http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-london-riots http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-...
pbhjpbhj 15y ago
It appears a known criminal (gangs, drug-dealing) with a loaded handgun was shot by police while resisting arrest; he may or may not have shot a police officer [first] at the time of his arrest ... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/a-dead-man-a-crucial-question-should-police-have-shot-mark-duggan-2334133.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/a-dead-man-a-cruc... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8687403/London-riots-Dead-man-Mark-Duggan-was-a-known-gangster-who-lived-by-the-gun.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8687403... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/mark-duggan-profile-tottenham-shooting http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/mark-duggan-profile...
- polshaw 15y ago
  relevant to note that subsequent rioting has had little to do with this. (more general) anger towards the police, along with opportunistic looting.
  - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
    >(more general) anger towards the police So if it's not gangs trying to violent show their power then what is the motivation in your opinion? Why sudden anger towards the police _from the general populus_? FWIW the buzz appears to be "send in the troops" rather than this being in any way justified demonstration (like maybe G8 demonstrations).
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
yread 15y ago
I really liked this commentary http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/tottenham-riots-not-unexpected http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/tottenha... although you might disagree with him, at least it states quite clearly a reason why are people rioting.

mcrider 15y ago

That's even scarier. When we had our (ridiculous) riots here in Vancouver a couple months back, it was all in one area. Many will argue that the cops didn't do a great job keeping it under control, but at least they kept everything in a relatively small zone away from residential areas, and it petered out over the night. Doesn't the fact that they're springing up all over London point to there being a systemic problem that is provoking people to more violence? How many days has this been going on now, three? Is there an end in sight?

abcd_f 15y ago
London is a much larger city with what seems like a lower quality of life for many people. Basically the number of potential rioteers in London is way higher than in Vancouver, so it is logical that their riots will be stronger and longer when they do spark.

LoonyPandora 15y ago

I don't want to turn this into a rumour thread, the news sites can keep people up to date. I just want people to keep in mind that the news will be sensationalist, and not to think that the entire city is in flames.