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No ethernet ? WiFi is nice and all but when I get a docker-compose project that decides to pull down the internet I really love the fact that I'm on a gigabit n
by moonchrome 5y ago
No ethernet ? WiFi is nice and all but when I get a docker-compose project that decides to pull down the internet I really love the fact that I'm on a gigabit network.
- chrisseaton 5y agoThis is where it goes wrong. Everyone thinks their particular favourite port is a 'pro' essential, and we end up with Homer-cars with a thousand ports. Just use USB-C. Almost everything can go through USB-C.
- TeMPOraL 5y agoBut not everything can go through the USB-C cable you have on hand. That's the annoying bit with USB-C. We may have (almost) standardized on a single plug/socket shape, but we didn't escape the essential complexity - the fact that one type of connection cannot handle all the use cases we'd like it to. We just pushed that complexity into cables. Instead of having to deal with separate data, network and graphics ports, users now have to deal with potentially separate data, network, graphics and charging cables. I'm not convinced this is an improvement, because USB-C cables are a bottom-feeder market that will not hesitate to outright scam the buyer. At this point I'm not sure it's an improvement. I feel like the optimum point would be a small amount of standards targeting mutually incompatible applications. That, or forcing some specification requirements on USB-C, and standardize some capability labels.
- infogulch 5y agoI hope that this is what USB4 will bring, since iiuc, USB4 is basically the IF's name for Thunderbolt-4-capable USB-C. This was enabled by Intel contributing the TB4 spec to the committee, in a shockingly benevolent move that I guess may have been the greatest internal political feat Intel staff pulled off in the last decade. Edit: Oh and presumably the ports on the Framework are USB4, they just can't say that yet because the certification is still in the works.
- mixmastamyk 5y agoReally? Interesting if true. Is that the case with other new intel gear?
- infogulch 5y agoAh it seems I was slightly off, it's TB3 not TB4, "The USB4 specification is based on the Thunderbolt 3 protocol specification." [0] But it does require: USB-PD, PCIe & DP tunneling, minimum 20 Gbit speed, max 40 Gbit speed. Stated goals to "minimize end-user confusion". I've seen some peripherals and such with it, no laptops yet though. The spec was released in 2019, so considering hardware cycle time we should start to see more devices soon. It's pretty cool that Framework will likely be on the leading edge of that wave. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4
- curt15 5y agoThe Dell XPS 13 9310 has two TB4/USB4 ports.
- iSnow 5y agoIs Dell still gimping them to 10Gbit/s like they used to? Considered an 13" XPS for years, but then turned to Apple because of this ridiculous decision.
- Dylan16807 5y agoThey'd better not be. Thunderbolt 4 mandates 32Gbps of data. The site says each port has 4 lanes of pcie 3.0
- jjoonathan 5y ago> PCIe tunneling Hell yeah, USB over PCIe over USB over PCIe here we goooooo!
- hfjrkekdkfj 5y agoI do not want all my USB-C cables to be able to handle 90W. That would make them very thick and expensive. I do not want all my USB-C cables to support the maximum 40 GBps speed (or whatever it is). That would require them to have all the 19 wires and shielding and all and again, would make them expensive and short. And just imagine how much a 90W maximum speed 3 meter cable would cost... I prefer having one power cable, one fast cable and then a bunch of disposable cables for general use cases.
- kragen 5y agoUSB-PD permits 100 W with 20 V at 5 A. If that's carried over just two round copper wires (I don't know whether it is in USB-C) they would need to be 18-gauge or thicker for safety—about 0.94 millimeters. If they're copper, that's about 7.3 grams of copper per meter, 14.6 grams including the return path. Copper is expensive: almost US$7/kg. So a 3-meter 5-amp DC or two-phase cable would weigh 45 grams and contain 15¢ worth of copper. You could drop both the cost and the weight by going to aluminum. If you were designing the system from scratch, you could use 3-phase AC to cut the weight by half again, and use 48 volts to cut the weight by another 58%. I don't have any idea how thick the 19 wires have to be for USB 40Gbps (GBps?) but I imagine the answer is "not nearly that thick".
- ethbr0 5y agoAfaik, signaling frequency is typically cross-talk limited, vs diameter limited. Think more shielding, stricter tolerances over thicker.
- kragen 5y agoIt sounds like you could maybe make substantial progress by just separating the differential pairs (?) by a millimeter or two of dielectric, giving you a ribbon cable, with much lower crosstalk than the round kind. Bonus points if you color the dielectric rainbow colors.
- Dylan16807 5y agoI feel like it's harder than shielding and tolerances, given that longer passive cables don't seem to exist despite the very high prices people are paying for active cables.
- int_19h 5y agoIt's definitely an improvement, because you can still carry the one cable that does it all, and use it for everything, even the things that don't actually require it.
- romwell 5y ago>and we end up with Homer-cars with a thousand ports. And what exactly is wrong with that? Ever seen musician's gear? Even the cheapest, smallest mixer boards support XLR, RCA, 1/4", and often USB for audio I/O -- and have many of them. Because yes, everyone has something essential to their flow, and number of configurations grows exponentially.
- chrisseaton 5y ago> Ever seen musician's gear? I guess some of those are analogue? I guess you can't squeeze those all through the same physical form factor connector. You can with digital, so let's reduce the clutter and do it!
- laurent92 5y agoYes, exactly, let’s suggest musicians to use USB-C, and every third cable won’t work, and they will be able to make a concert but with no guitar, exactly like the devices in front of us when we try to work. The only insurance against “the USB-C downtime” is a subscription to Amazon Prime 24hrs delivery and another $68 (no kidding) Apple cable.
- chrisseaton 5y ago> Yes, exactly, let’s suggest musicians to use USB-C Not sure what you mean - I said didn't really apply to analogue.
- romwell 5y agoExcept for USB, they are all analogue, and some are mutually interchangeable. 3.5mm TRS, dual 3.5mm TS, dual RCA, 1/4" TRS, dual 1/4" TS, XLR cables transfer the same kind of signal, and you can easily convert between the connector with dongles. Mixers have all of these so that you wouldn't have to. The utility is not thinking about where the f***ing dongle is when you just want to plug something in.
- deleted 5y ago
- moonchrome 5y agoThere's thunderbolt, USB 3, USB 4. External adapters of varying quality and capabilities are often inferior to even budget integrated stuff. For example getting a 4k 60FPS HDMI dongle was going to cost me >100$, and the cheap ones I had overheated. Meanwhile a budget laptop with HDMI and integrate graphics works fine. Getting a dock with gigabit ethernet, high res HDMI, decent SD reader and a fast hub was >200$ last time I checked - and not that portable either.
- whywhywhywhy 5y agoApart from displays which are objectively garbage though USB-C
- mrjin 5y agoCannot agree more. USB-C is a big mess. I've quite a few of them in different specs. Some can do 100w PD, some support DP-Alt mode, some are Thunderbolt 3, and some are USB 3.0 and can allow a maximum of 2A, some even only support USB 2, however can deliver 5A. Put all those mess aside, some started to fail just after being used a couple of times.
- nikau 5y agoPro is 2xUSBC, 2xUSBA and HDMI. That covers pretty much every common scenario when travelling. USB-C for a connecting to a dock, HDMI for a meeting room screen, USB-A for reading a flash drive. Homer cars is a macbook with a bunch of stupid HDMI and usb-c to usb-a dongles hanging off it so you can read a flash drive or connect to a meeting room screen.
- eertami 5y agoMy newest laptop gets a fairly consistent 700-800Mbps on WiFi. Don't get me wrong I still prefer ethernet to avoid packet loss and reduce latency but download throughput isn't a problem I notice on WiFi anymore (since I'm also only on a 1Gbit/s line)
- pantalaimon 5y agoYour laptop is not magic, it will only get those speeds with the right access point and if you are close enough to it. If you carry your laptop someplace else it might not find itself in such ideal conditions.
- jeffbee 5y agoWhat a bizarre retort. It should also be fairly obvious that if you carry your laptop somewhere else you're not going to be able to reach it with the ethernet cable, either.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y agoWhy not? They come up to 300 feet long, in all colors, optionally flat and thin and easily deliver more speed than any (current) WiFi can.
- iSnow 5y agoBecause usually, you can't just throw a 100m cable through a building and plug it just into some Ethernet socket. And who wants to carry around a spool of cable?
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y agohttps://www.mondo2000.com/2017/08/30/r-u-a-cyberpunk-well-r-u-punk/ https://www.mondo2000.com/2017/08/30/r-u-a-cyberpunk-well-r-...
- biztos 5y agoI don’t know really… yes Ethernet is nice to have but in 16 years of using an MBP as my “pro” machine in a big company I needed it like twice, 14 years ago. So yeah in principle, you’re right.
- mfer 5y agoFor $15 USD you can get a USB to gigabit Ethernet adapter. Many (most?) laptops don't have Ethernet on them anymore.
- dboreham 5y agoBecause the RJ-45 won't physically fit. So you need a dongle just for the physical connector. Therefore it may as well be an active dongle from USB-C.
- nicklaf 5y agoHmm, I think the RJ-45 fits well enough on my 2019 Acer Aspire laptop. With the spring-loaded flap shut, it ends up being no thicker than the HDMI port next to it.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y agohttps://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/12/8/16750574/pop-out-ethernet-jack https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/12/8/16750574/p...
- ddoeth 5y agoThere were also the things from lenovo https://youtu.be/ZzHAaaVVLTs?t=45 https://youtu.be/ZzHAaaVVLTs?t=45
- bmaupin 5y agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/GoodDesign/comments/emzqzf/my_dell_laptop_has_expandable_ethernet_port_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GoodDesign/comments/emzqzf/my_dell_...
- maerF0x0 5y agoThanks to their expansion card developer program, if you're not the lone voice in the desert, someone can build one! https://community.frame.work/c/expansion-cards/developer-program/90 https://community.frame.work/c/expansion-cards/developer-pro...
- inkyoto 5y agoWhy should anyone waste the precious space in a ultrportable laptop on the newfangled and time unproven technology which Ethernet is? I want my Token Ring port back to connect to my ring in a box with a Boy George connector – to celebrate the diversity of the computing I have filled up the basement and the attic of my house with.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y agoProle. FDDI it is! ;-)
- Stratoscope 5y agoI'm not disagreeing with the value of a wired Ethernet connection, but both my new ThinkPads (P1 and X1E Gen 3) have gigabit Wi-Fi. Connected to my Asus RT-AX86U, I got a 935Mbps download on a speed test over Comcast. I had heard that 802.11ax (Wi-Fi 6) was pretty good, and it sure looks that way so far. I have some good Cat 8 Ethernet cables, so I will experiment with that too.
- scoopertrooper 5y agoEarly WiFi 6E routers have been clocked at 1.8 Gbps!
- jareklupinski 5y agoseems they're working on it https://community.frame.work/t/ethernet-rj45/2203/2 https://community.frame.work/t/ethernet-rj45/2203/2 if there's a bounty on it, i'll pick it up :)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- drclau 5y agoI have fiber optics internet connection at home, and my 4 year old MacBook Pro does consistently over 500Mbps (peaks close to 700Mbps) over WiFi. Granted, it’s still not 1Gbps, but I can’t think of any regular scenario where it would make a significant difference. You just need a good wireless router.
- moonchrome 5y agoI live in an apartment building, while I have a 5g router in my living room my work room is separated by a bearing wall, but even in the same room I often get random interference where the internet starts stuttering. My desktop with ethernet is way more stable than my MBP WIFI. Also ping is noticeably lower for games.