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the rate at which Amazon is burning through workforce vs it’s rate of automation is starting to look like the balance is diverging fast. They’ll collapse before

the rate at which Amazon is burning through workforce vs it’s rate of automation is starting to look like the balance is diverging fast. They’ll collapse before they automate

echelon 5y ago
Will they, really? Their workers would not work at Amazon if they had other choices. The real problem is that there is no Amazon delivery and logistics equivalent. Workers would leave for it. There would be price competition on wages. Perhaps antitrust split of Amazon should divide the company down the middle in each state, creating two logistics and delivery companies nationwide, evenly and randomly splitting their assets.
- b9a2cab5 5y ago
  There are plenty of retail jobs. If you haven't seen the news recently, there's a record shortage and large wage increases happening in that entire sector. The reason people still work Amazon is because Amazon pays better than the competition. For example, a lot of restaurant workers have left that sector for better choices. You don't see that happening in Amazon but I would think that workers in both sectors are somewhat overlapping (unskilled labor).
  - supermatt 5y ago
    Im not sure where you have been for the last year and a half, but a lot of retail workers and restaurant workers have been laid off or suspended on reduced pay. Shops were empty, restaurants were empty. Thats still mostly the case. Thats why there is a shortage. Its those same companies that laid people off that are now trying to tempt them back with increased wages. Chipotle, for example.
    - namdnay 5y ago
      > Shops were empty, restaurants were empty. Thats still mostly the case. Thats why there is a shortage. Why is there a shortage of labour if restaurants and shops are still mostly empty? I think the real reason is that people took the opportunity (or were forced to financially) to try other careers.
      - supermatt 5y ago
        there is only a shortage of people willing to go work for the same companies that shit on them when covid happened.
    - Invictus0 5y ago
      When was the last time you stepped outside? The shops and restaurants are not empty anywhere in the country.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - b9a2cab5 5y ago
      My local Chipotle is advertising $17.50/h wages and $750 signing bonuses. My local Amazon starts at $19/h. The market for entry level unskilled labor has never been better in the last decade. Maybe you live in Europe or another country where growth is stagnant?
- supermatt 5y ago
  I keep feeling companies should only be permitted to operate in a single trade category. What we call 'anti-competitive' behaviour now is basically down to deep pockets being able to subsidize projects unrelated to the core business (whatever the hell that is).
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)
varelse 5y ago
Which is probably why they want to build company towns where you won't have any alternative except for Amazon. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-16/amazon-s-new-factory-towns-will-lift-the-working-class https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-16/amazon...
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  Given how bad most US cities are at building sufficient housing, it wouldn't actually shock me if a well-planned company town was short-term financially much better for their employees than average... at least Amazonville won't have NIMBYs complaining about new high-rise condos ruining the neighborhood. And like it or not (not, probably), housing is 40+% of low-income worker living expense, so even fixing rent could turn a worker's life around...
  - varelse 5y ago
    There are plenty of places in the United States where there is little resistance to building more housing and the local government would love for people to come there and start businesses. But they are not considered desirable places and they often end up on 100 worst places to live in the United States lists made by the same sort of people rationalizing their high cost of living. Amazon has apparently taken notice of this and decided to monetize it. But if it becomes a broken Orwellian dystopia like this camera system, that's a made for TV horror movie. And if you suggest someone in an expensive place like San Francisco who is sinking into debt should move to a place like that and bootstrap you will hear an unending stream of profanities from them. Because the people who are willing to do that sort of thing have mostly already done so. Your priorities are not their priorities. They'll take the NIMBYs if they're close to their friends and family.
    - nebula8804 5y ago
      Those undesirable places are partially that way because a community is not just housing. It is good infrastructure, good governance, good society among many other things. Look at all this anti-vax nonsense...look they are free to act the way they want but it does scare away investment into those communities. Low taxes could mean less red tape but it can also mean non-existent governance and investment into infrastructure. People are starting to realize this scam for what it is.
mnw21cam 5y ago
Amazon has adverts on TV saying how wonderful it is to work for Amazon. My first thought when seeing them is, that's a PR campaign, and the truth is almost certainly the opposite.

the rate at which Amazon is burning through workforce vs it’s rate of automation is starting to look like the balance is diverging fast. They’ll collapse before they automate

echelon 5y ago

Will they, really? Their workers would not work at Amazon if they had other choices. The real problem is that there is no Amazon delivery and logistics equivalent. Workers would leave for it. There would be price competition on wages. Perhaps antitrust split of Amazon should divide the company down the middle in each state, creating two logistics and delivery companies nationwide, evenly and randomly splitting their assets.

b9a2cab5 5y ago
There are plenty of retail jobs. If you haven't seen the news recently, there's a record shortage and large wage increases happening in that entire sector. The reason people still work Amazon is because Amazon pays better than the competition. For example, a lot of restaurant workers have left that sector for better choices. You don't see that happening in Amazon but I would think that workers in both sectors are somewhat overlapping (unskilled labor).
- supermatt 5y ago
  Im not sure where you have been for the last year and a half, but a lot of retail workers and restaurant workers have been laid off or suspended on reduced pay. Shops were empty, restaurants were empty. Thats still mostly the case. Thats why there is a shortage. Its those same companies that laid people off that are now trying to tempt them back with increased wages. Chipotle, for example.
  - namdnay 5y ago
    > Shops were empty, restaurants were empty. Thats still mostly the case. Thats why there is a shortage. Why is there a shortage of labour if restaurants and shops are still mostly empty? I think the real reason is that people took the opportunity (or were forced to financially) to try other careers.
    - supermatt 5y ago
      there is only a shortage of people willing to go work for the same companies that shit on them when covid happened.
  - Invictus0 5y ago
    When was the last time you stepped outside? The shops and restaurants are not empty anywhere in the country.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - b9a2cab5 5y ago
    My local Chipotle is advertising $17.50/h wages and $750 signing bonuses. My local Amazon starts at $19/h. The market for entry level unskilled labor has never been better in the last decade. Maybe you live in Europe or another country where growth is stagnant?
supermatt 5y ago
I keep feeling companies should only be permitted to operate in a single trade category. What we call 'anti-competitive' behaviour now is basically down to deep pockets being able to subsidize projects unrelated to the core business (whatever the hell that is).
- goodpoint 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)

varelse 5y ago

Which is probably why they want to build company towns where you won't have any alternative except for Amazon. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-16/amazon-s-new-factory-towns-will-lift-the-working-class https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-16/amazon...

bpodgursky 5y ago
Given how bad most US cities are at building sufficient housing, it wouldn't actually shock me if a well-planned company town was short-term financially much better for their employees than average... at least Amazonville won't have NIMBYs complaining about new high-rise condos ruining the neighborhood. And like it or not (not, probably), housing is 40+% of low-income worker living expense, so even fixing rent could turn a worker's life around...
- varelse 5y ago
  There are plenty of places in the United States where there is little resistance to building more housing and the local government would love for people to come there and start businesses. But they are not considered desirable places and they often end up on 100 worst places to live in the United States lists made by the same sort of people rationalizing their high cost of living. Amazon has apparently taken notice of this and decided to monetize it. But if it becomes a broken Orwellian dystopia like this camera system, that's a made for TV horror movie. And if you suggest someone in an expensive place like San Francisco who is sinking into debt should move to a place like that and bootstrap you will hear an unending stream of profanities from them. Because the people who are willing to do that sort of thing have mostly already done so. Your priorities are not their priorities. They'll take the NIMBYs if they're close to their friends and family.
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    Those undesirable places are partially that way because a community is not just housing. It is good infrastructure, good governance, good society among many other things. Look at all this anti-vax nonsense...look they are free to act the way they want but it does scare away investment into those communities. Low taxes could mean less red tape but it can also mean non-existent governance and investment into infrastructure. People are starting to realize this scam for what it is.

mnw21cam 5y ago

Amazon has adverts on TV saying how wonderful it is to work for Amazon. My first thought when seeing them is, that's a PR campaign, and the truth is almost certainly the opposite.