20 ms·

Text entered into Windows' Run dialogue gets sent to Microsoft's telemetry

274 points by NKosmatos 5y ago

newsbinator 5y ago
This is actually a huge deal because if others are anything like me, I paste into the run dialog to strip text formatting, before copying it elsewhere. Haven't used Windows in a decade so not sure if there's a better way now.
- chinathrow 5y ago
  Ctrl-Shift-v in many applications e.g. Word.
  - Mesmoria 5y ago
    In many places, but not word (sadly).
    - kyriakos 5y ago
      word its CTRL-V then CTRL-T
- farkanoid 5y ago
  It makes me happy that others do this too, I make use of pretty much any plaintext field in proximity to strip formatting
- bojan 5y ago
  I just use Notepad for that.
  - gruez 5y ago
    notepad pros: * doesn't send your text to the botnet * works with multiline text cons: * isn't 2 keys (win-R) away. I personally had to type win + N + O + T + E + P until it showed up, then hit enter.
    - jenny91 5y ago
      The mothership only got "notep" :/
      - gnu8 5y ago
        Not great because when they see how many people use Notepad, they're going to replace it with a piece of shit like they did with the snipping tool and Freecell.
    - contravariant 5y ago
      That con is why I've used Authotkey to bind notepad to win-N.
    - temac 5y ago
      > notepad pros: > * doesn't send your text to the botnet hm, yet? And are we even sure about that? Who expect that what you type in the Run dialog being spied on and sent to MS? Is this even documented anywhere? At this point I'm considering all MS softwares have become mainly hardcore spyware, with maybe some secondary legacy functions remaining (but in lots of cases being stripped slowly, while getting more bloated at the same time).
      - crummy 5y ago
        probably you can be confident with a copy of wireshark
        temac 5y ago
        Unless I do that all day, not really (and then I would need to configure tons of things to block the traffic), and things are getting worse and worse. I just received an update from Dell of Intel integrated graphics driver and it seems they phone home (to Intel, most probably, I doubt Dell receives a special version that send to Dell instead of to Intel whatever they thought it would be interesting to spy on), although I'm not sure the original ones did so, nor if I have even been warned that they do. Probably illegal under GDPR laws, but like that kind of company gives a shit... I will just abandon Windows, it's not worth it anymore. Win 11 incompatible with most not-so-old PCs will be a good occasion.
  - Mindless2112 5y ago
    In case you're feeling left out in Notepad, you can right-click › "Search with Bing..."
    - bojan 5y ago
      Only for selected text.
- userbinator 5y ago
  I've always used a Notepad, but now I wonder whether that also phones home in the newer versions of Windows...
  - not1ofU 5y ago
    Notepad ++ - its the beesknees
- NKosmatos 5y ago
  I use the address bar of the browser to quickly strip formatting :-)
  - strombofulous 5y ago
    FYI, chrome/edge have similar behavior in their omnibox. If you ever find the time, open up fiddler and keep it visible on a second monitor while you browse. You'll be amazed by how much data is sent back to microsoft/Google. I'm not sure if other chromium browsers also do this, I know ungoogled chromium doesn't.
    - thrashh 5y ago
      Shouldn’t be surprising if autocomplete results appear immediately after typing in the box. They didn’t magically appear from thin air for sure.
  - im3w1l 5y ago
    At least the address bar lets you know it gets uploaded by displaying search autocompletes
- m463 5y ago
  "Haven't used Windows in a decade so not sure if there's a better way now." no, not running windows in a decade is still the better way. only sort of joking. I run windows 7 and haven't upgraded.
  - eptcyka 5y ago
    Windows 7 is horribly insecure now. Please reconsider.
    - gruez 5y ago
      Normally yes, but you can pirate the extended support updates, which last until 2023.
    - userbinator 5y ago
      FUD. MS gathers more information about you than ever.
      - eptcyka 5y ago
        Both of those statements can be true.
        userbinator 5y ago
        It's downright fearmongering --- classic MS-style --- to say something is "horribly insecure" when it has has been around for over a decade and all the major bugs have already been found. Nevermind the fact that everyone is almost always behind a NAT and are basically unreachable for attackers to exploit remotely. If anything, the newer versions of Windows are "horribly inescure" because they contain so many "unknown unknowns". But that wouldn't fit the narrative MS wants to propagate...
        kube-system 5y ago
        Plenty of new CVEs are in code that has been around for decades. For an example recently in the news: https://msrc.microsoft.com/update-guide/vulnerability/CVE-2021-34527 https://msrc.microsoft.com/update-guide/vulnerability/CVE-20...
- banana_giraffe 5y ago
  No built in better way I know of, but I have ; Type in the clipboard ^!v:: MyClip = %clipboard% StringReplace, MyClip, MyClip, `r, , All SendRaw %MyClip% return in my AutoHotkey script for a long time now to let me hit Ctrl-Alt-V and have it type in the text of whatever's in the clipboard. (Type instead of paste to get around random situations where the clipboard won't do what I want)
- moogly 5y ago
  https://stevemiller.net/puretext/ https://stevemiller.net/puretext/
- babypuncher 5y ago
  It's probably false, as others in this thread are struggling to validate this Twitter user's claims.
- not1ofU 5y ago
  CTLR + Shift + v You're welcome ;-)
  - not1ofU 5y ago
    I wish I could edit this, because something even better I had forgotten about (since I use Mac for work these days, and I wish there was alternative to this in Mac) best ever - ClCl [0] https://www.nakka.com/soft/clcl/index_eng.html https://www.nakka.com/soft/clcl/index_eng.html It basically a clipboard manager, but the best one Ive ever used. Can create templates, use Alt+v to paste from list.Super intuitive. Its better than I am describing for sure, and its free. (cannot find equivelant for Mac)
- Bluecobra 5y ago
  Preserving text formatting is probably one of most useless features I have to workaround with on an almost daily basis by using Notepad. It makes me wonder how much productivity was lost vs. gained globally by this “feature”.
bob1029 5y ago
Edit: Deleted my original posting. Getting some pretty hostile vibes on basic attempts to contribute to this thread.
- jaywalk 5y ago
  What does that have to do with the Run dialog?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
musicale 5y ago
Helpful for passwords and other information you might want to share.
hypothesis 5y ago
What’s interesting is the fact that telemetry is a feature at this point (how old is Windows 10?) and you can’t win a fight against a core OS feature. Why are people still trying to fight this?
- trangus_1985 5y ago
  You've always been able to turn it off with group policy and disabling the reporting service. It still bugs me, on principle, that you can't easily disable it even on the Pro edition.
  - hypothesis 5y ago
    That’s like trying to disable all those similar things in Firefox. But you can’t really, not unless you stop updating it, because you’ll miss something at some point. And that’s not even an ‘evil corp’ we’re talking here.
    - trangus_1985 5y ago
      I've had it disabled for years, without it reporting home. So far, Microsoft seems to respect group policy and disabled services on Pro edition.
      - gruez 5y ago
        >So far, Microsoft seems to respect group policy on Pro edition the group policy description explicitly says it does not respect it unless you're using enterprise or education. > [...] >If you enable this setting, you can decide what level of diagnostic data to send to Microsoft, including: >- 0 (Security). Sends only a minimal amount of data to Microsoft, required to help keep Windows secure. Windows security components, such as the Malicious Software Removal Tool (MSRT) and Windows Defender may send data to Microsoft at this level, if enabled. Setting a value of 0 applies to devices running Enterprise, Education, IoT, or Windows Server editions only. Setting a value of 0 for other editions is equivalent to setting a value of 1. >- 1 (Basic). Sends the same data as a value of 0, plus a very limited amount of diagnostic data, such as basic device info, quality-related data, and app compatibility info. Note that setting values of 0 or 1 will degrade certain experiences on the device. > [...] Disabling the relevant service might stop it regardless, but it's definitely not the group policy.
thesuperbigfrog 5y ago
"Who controls your computer? Is it you?" "Either the user controls the software, or the software controls the users": https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM?t=57 https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM?t=57
p1necone 5y ago
So, what's everyone's favorite desktop/workstation Linux distro as of 2021? Edit: Anyone tried using NixOS as a desktop OS? I like the idea of scripting my setup.
- Shadonototra 5y ago
  manjaro with XFCE + https://github.com/davekeogh/xfce4-docklike-plugin https://github.com/davekeogh/xfce4-docklike-plugin (check the original repo for the screenshots)
- mappu 5y ago
  Debian with KDE It's a major distro with excellent security support, it's completely non-commercial, and KDE has a traditional GUI layout with all the optional trimmings (snap to window edges, thumbnail previews in taskbar etc)
  - _0ffh 5y ago
    Debian seconded, but with XFCE here.
- hpoe 5y ago
  Ubuntu with i3.
- brian-armstrong 5y ago
  Mint with XFCE is quite nice
- mithusingh32 5y ago
  Regolith-linux It's a ubuntu based with a i3 desktop manager but with newer perfect configurations out of the box.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    +1 for this, particularly if you've never tried i3 but still want to know what the workflow feels like. I run Regolith on my homelab and it works like a charm!
jimbob45 5y ago
Interestingly, the people least likely to disable Windows telemetry are the people MS is most likely to want to hear from because they're the least capable of solving their own issues in Windows and thus represent the most pressing needs for development to fix.
- DarkmSparks 5y ago
  Thats my preferred explanation of how windows went downhill so quickly after win7. It used to coexist with linux, now basically everyone of "google engineer" quality single boots linux.
inyorgroove 5y ago
There are tools for this, don't go alone (block telemetry via hosts file): https://github.com/builtbybel/privatezilla https://github.com/builtbybel/privatezilla
- inyorgroove 5y ago
  Also, I block MS telemetry hosts on my router's dns server: https://github.com/crazy-max/WindowsSpyBlocker/blob/master/data/hosts/spy.txt https://github.com/crazy-max/WindowsSpyBlocker/blob/master/d...
- not1ofU 5y ago
  I had a huge hosts file which I found (cannot find the site now, I seem to have lost the URL), it was so massive, I needed to change some service on Windows to prevent issues on start up. Sometime last year, Windows defender completely blanked out the Hosts file to default empty state. I re-downloaded the file and added an exclusion for it and I just checked it now, and its blank again. After the first time I invested in a pi-hole.
air7 5y ago
One of the relies makes sense to me: it's because the win10 search bar is also a web search and this is intended functionality, normal for search bars. they send a new request every time you type a character i assume for predictive search and fast results. you can also see this in bing for sure.
- JacobLinney 5y ago
  search bar != run dialogue
- NobodyNada 5y ago
  This isn’t the search bar though, it’s the “run” window (Win+R), which has no search functionality and is more-or-less equivalent to typing a command in Command Prompt.
  - anigbrowl 5y ago
    It has search functionality. I slightly mistyped something the other day and was mystified to see the correct answer in a mini browser window while Windows itself was failing to match it up with the software I had installed and run every day. You can also just start typing search queries and it will try to launch MS Edge as soon as you hit enter.
    - jfrunyon 5y ago
      > Windows cannot find 'foobar'. Make sure you typed the name correctly, and then try again.
      - anigbrowl 5y ago
        Maybe you're not using the latest version. I get a mini browser window inviting me to try www.foobar2000.org. Windows 10, 21H1.
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    I'm actually fairly certain that the Twitter post is referring to the start menu search. I see exactly 0 network requests when typing into the run box.
adamrezich 5y ago
if they're gonna do this you'd think they'd have the courtesy to spiffy up the ancient dialog a bit at least
AA-BA-94-2A-56 5y ago
Another mail in the coffin. Why should I use Windows, when Linux is catching up and not using these horrific anti-patterns?
- wott 5y ago
  > Why should I use Windows, when Linux is catching up and not using these horrific anti-patterns? Don't worry about choosing, little by little the Linux ecosystem (distros, applications) is/will be catching up with these horrific anti-patterns too. After all, it is now in the hands of the same type of guys, who apply the same reasoning (1. how could I improve my piece of software if I don't put telemetry everywhere? 2. Security! Security! Security! Please let me auto-update 3 times a weeks, put a camera in your house, oh and by the way, give me your car keys, it's for your own good.)
  - teitoklien 5y ago
    Unlikely, Most linux users usually use foss tools , And whenever any company tries to pull that , it usually leads to outrage in the community to the point even minimal telemetry usually has to be removed.
    - kasabali 5y ago
      Except Mozilla
gentleman11 5y ago
How did the pr people ever spin it so that we call “keyloggers” and “spyware” simple “telemetry” now? Let’s call it what it is
- moksly 5y ago
  I’m wonder how it remains legal in the EU. Legislation really needs to step up on these things. It’s an American company that’s keeping taps on something like 600 million European citizens. I don’t care what sort of “license agreement” it comes with, that’s just not ok.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
    Legislation exists, enforcement is what's missing.
  - alpaca128 5y ago
    At this point most governments and companies are dependent on Windows and don't want to or can't pay the price of a switch. Legal or not, I doubt anything will happen as long as this doesn't change.
    - moksly 5y ago
      I don’t agree with that. I work in the public sector of Denmark and we haven’t had issues getting Microsoft to change things to meet our needs. Well we’re still struggling to get them to commit to never having Azure support work on our things with workers who aren’t EU citizens. But AWS complied with that rather quickly and Microsoft is bound to follow or lose a lot of business. And that last part is what’s important. It’s also why we can turn the telemetry off in the enterprise setups. So all you really need is someone high enough in the EU to make it stop and Microsoft will end it because it’s too valuable for them not to do so. You’re right that we can’t easily leave Microsoft in the public sector, and we don’t really wish to do so either as the education of millions of workers alone would be so expensive there is no business case, but we’re not as reliant on Windows as we once were. Almost all our systems have become platform independent, including office365, and more and more of our new hires have never used a Windows PC when they join us.
wbkang 5y ago
Isn't this the clipboard history? Did anyone verify this claim independently? It's incredibly hard to believe they would upload plain text for 'telemetry'.
- kjaftaedi 5y ago
  It's true. I'd recommend ShutUp10 to disable this and other 'features' Unfortunately it's not that hard to believe. Let's not forget Ubuntu did this as well and sent everyone's data to Amazon.
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    > It's true. [citation needed]
- ziml77 5y ago
  I would guess it's either the clipboard history or the typing data telemetry. Both of those can be turned off. I'm sure someone will say that those have turned themselves back on with updates, but I'll believe that when I see it. Edit: actually just noticed that there's nothing to back this claim up. I didn't realize that the reply here was from a different account and not the one that's talking about the whole Win-R sequence. It's entirely possible that this is a packet capture from typing into the start menu search with the web search feature enabled.
- not1ofU 5y ago
  Its not true, read the entire twitter thread. Its been dubunked already as BS It will send (encrypted / 443) if using start menu search (as it uses bing to inter search as well. But doesnt do this for Run as the tweet is claiming. The PCAP file is also more than a year old (which is not great in fairness)
marcodiego 5y ago
Nice! Let's use it to tell them what we think about it!
1970-01-01 5y ago
Microsoft is somewhat transparent about it: Inking, typing, and speech utterance data This type of Optional diagnostic data includes details about the voice, inking, and typing input features on the device. Samples of the content you type, write, or dictate on the device. Details about status of transcribing input into text https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/data-collection-Windows https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/data-collection-Windows
aaron695 5y ago
Why can we not see what our computers are sending over the internet? If you say Wireshark then you are the problem. It would need to be in something as easy as Task Manager. Ideally you could also just set a token string that if it ever gets sent over the internet you'd get a immediate flag. Then just shove it everywhere. And let the worlds power users work it out. I assume it's a technical issue.
- toomanybeersies 5y ago
  > Why can we not see what our computers are sending over the internet? That's a feature, not a flaw, of TLS.
  - mr_mitm 5y ago
    TLS is meant to protect data in transit. On your own machine, where you have full privileges, there is in principle nothing that stops you from observing traffic before/after it's encrypted. Examples: * https://github.com/SySS-Research/hallucinate https://github.com/SySS-Research/hallucinate * https://sourceforge.net/projects/echomirage.oldbutgold.p/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/echomirage.oldbutgold.p/
jfrunyon 5y ago
Can't duplicate. Also, I'm a bit curious how this person is able to see HTTP2 contents in Wireshark, given its almost-mandatory TLS. Also, I'm extremely surprised that Microsoft would send telemetry without encryption. Also, I'm a bit curious why this looks more like a request that it would send when someone types a search into the Startmenu rather than the Run box. In fact, when typing into (or even running from) the Run box, I see no network requests over ports 80/443. When typing into the Startmenu, I see network requests going to the same M$ IP shown (204.79.197.200), but they are, of course, TLS-encrypted on port 443. Even if I block port 443 in the Windows firewall, it does not fall back to port 80. This is either false, or version dependent. I would lean towards the former. Frankly, if this is real, a bigger problem than the sending of telemetry is the sending of unencrypted telemetry.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > Also, I'm a bit curious how this person is able to see HTTP2 contents in Wireshark, given its almost-mandatory TLS. Also, I'm extremely surprised that Microsoft would send telemetry without encryption. Install your own root CA then MITM it?
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    Well, firstly, it wouldn't be port 80 in that case.
    - zamadatix 5y ago
      Could be an artifact of however the proxying or decryption is done, particularly if the goal was to have the traffic be decrypted as it went across the NIC not just to get a copy of the data being proxied locally. Or it could be an artifact of bad editpcap-ing. Same with the all 0s Ethernet source/destinations. Either way I don't think it was the run box that triggered it. Either they didn't know the original run box is still a thing and the field in the taskbar is a search box or they have clipboard history enabled and didn't realize that's a cloud function while they were ctrl+c and ctrl+v-ing into the box.
Santosh83 5y ago
At some point in the last few decades the whole concept of privacy has shifted from "your data known only to you" to "we will protect your data from small-time unsavoury actors, but in exchange, WE ourselves will collect and mine everything about you. The WE here is perpetually growing, where once it was the government and spy agencies, now it has become platform providers, service providers and pretty much everyone who can get a vendor lockin or near-monopoly established.
Infinitesimus 5y ago
It probably should only send to the telemetry endpoints when you try to run the command. Otherwise it doesn't seem nefarious if you have telemetry enabled on the OS does it? Knowing the commands people often use the Run dialog for can be a useful input for making usability and stability improvements. (Eg: a sudden influx of people running explorer.exe might hint at something etc. ) Of course, MS telemetry is in many places and it's not always clear where so it is often a surprise to find these spots when you start looking.
roody15 5y ago
Just a mess. Click on start… type updates … searching… wait … wait … oh updates in control panel Such a simple search but somehow microsoft manages to make it such , first it searches the web (why? we have browsers for this ) sends a copy to micsoft… then finally pops up with what you want. I know this is not the same as the run dialogue but just reminds of how borked some of microsoft products have become.
literallyaduck 5y ago
Time to contact your state legislators and ask for state specific privacy laws ban tracking even with consent.
x0n 5y ago
Nobody can duplicate/repro the behavior. https://twitter.com/Lee_Holmes/status/1440104895474909191 https://twitter.com/Lee_Holmes/status/1440104895474909191
mrtweetyhack 5y ago
can someone capture the packets and start sending them junk?
jojo2000 5y ago
Entire departments at big corps code such "features". What a waste of brainpower. Go dev some OSS stuff for less money guys, the world needs you.
netresec 5y ago
We deleted this tweet earlier today. Thanks to everyone who fact checked our statement and reached out to notify us about the mistake! A correction has been posted here: https://twitter.com/netresec/status/1440298935868743686 https://twitter.com/netresec/status/1440298935868743686

274 points by NKosmatos 5y ago

This is actually a huge deal because if others are anything like me, I paste into the run dialog to strip text formatting, before copying it elsewhere. Haven't used Windows in a decade so not sure if there's a better way now.

chinathrow 5y ago
Ctrl-Shift-v in many applications e.g. Word.
- Mesmoria 5y ago
  In many places, but not word (sadly).
  - kyriakos 5y ago
    word its CTRL-V then CTRL-T
farkanoid 5y ago
It makes me happy that others do this too, I make use of pretty much any plaintext field in proximity to strip formatting
bojan 5y ago
I just use Notepad for that.
- gruez 5y ago
  notepad pros: * doesn't send your text to the botnet * works with multiline text cons: * isn't 2 keys (win-R) away. I personally had to type win + N + O + T + E + P until it showed up, then hit enter.
  - jenny91 5y ago
    The mothership only got "notep" :/
    - gnu8 5y ago
      Not great because when they see how many people use Notepad, they're going to replace it with a piece of shit like they did with the snipping tool and Freecell.
  - contravariant 5y ago
    That con is why I've used Authotkey to bind notepad to win-N.
  - temac 5y ago
    > notepad pros: > * doesn't send your text to the botnet hm, yet? And are we even sure about that? Who expect that what you type in the Run dialog being spied on and sent to MS? Is this even documented anywhere? At this point I'm considering all MS softwares have become mainly hardcore spyware, with maybe some secondary legacy functions remaining (but in lots of cases being stripped slowly, while getting more bloated at the same time).
    - crummy 5y ago
      probably you can be confident with a copy of wireshark
      - temac 5y ago
        Unless I do that all day, not really (and then I would need to configure tons of things to block the traffic), and things are getting worse and worse. I just received an update from Dell of Intel integrated graphics driver and it seems they phone home (to Intel, most probably, I doubt Dell receives a special version that send to Dell instead of to Intel whatever they thought it would be interesting to spy on), although I'm not sure the original ones did so, nor if I have even been warned that they do. Probably illegal under GDPR laws, but like that kind of company gives a shit... I will just abandon Windows, it's not worth it anymore. Win 11 incompatible with most not-so-old PCs will be a good occasion.
- Mindless2112 5y ago
  In case you're feeling left out in Notepad, you can right-click › "Search with Bing..."
  - bojan 5y ago
    Only for selected text.
userbinator 5y ago
I've always used a Notepad, but now I wonder whether that also phones home in the newer versions of Windows...
- not1ofU 5y ago
  Notepad ++ - its the beesknees
NKosmatos 5y ago
I use the address bar of the browser to quickly strip formatting :-)
- strombofulous 5y ago
  FYI, chrome/edge have similar behavior in their omnibox. If you ever find the time, open up fiddler and keep it visible on a second monitor while you browse. You'll be amazed by how much data is sent back to microsoft/Google. I'm not sure if other chromium browsers also do this, I know ungoogled chromium doesn't.
  - thrashh 5y ago
    Shouldn’t be surprising if autocomplete results appear immediately after typing in the box. They didn’t magically appear from thin air for sure.
- im3w1l 5y ago
  At least the address bar lets you know it gets uploaded by displaying search autocompletes
m463 5y ago
"Haven't used Windows in a decade so not sure if there's a better way now." no, not running windows in a decade is still the better way. only sort of joking. I run windows 7 and haven't upgraded.
- eptcyka 5y ago
  Windows 7 is horribly insecure now. Please reconsider.
  - gruez 5y ago
    Normally yes, but you can pirate the extended support updates, which last until 2023.
  - userbinator 5y ago
    FUD. MS gathers more information about you than ever.
    - eptcyka 5y ago
      Both of those statements can be true.
      - userbinator 5y ago
        It's downright fearmongering --- classic MS-style --- to say something is "horribly insecure" when it has has been around for over a decade and all the major bugs have already been found. Nevermind the fact that everyone is almost always behind a NAT and are basically unreachable for attackers to exploit remotely. If anything, the newer versions of Windows are "horribly inescure" because they contain so many "unknown unknowns". But that wouldn't fit the narrative MS wants to propagate...
        kube-system 5y ago
        Plenty of new CVEs are in code that has been around for decades. For an example recently in the news: https://msrc.microsoft.com/update-guide/vulnerability/CVE-2021-34527 https://msrc.microsoft.com/update-guide/vulnerability/CVE-20...
banana_giraffe 5y ago
No built in better way I know of, but I have ; Type in the clipboard ^!v:: MyClip = %clipboard% StringReplace, MyClip, MyClip, `r, , All SendRaw %MyClip% return in my AutoHotkey script for a long time now to let me hit Ctrl-Alt-V and have it type in the text of whatever's in the clipboard. (Type instead of paste to get around random situations where the clipboard won't do what I want)
moogly 5y ago
https://stevemiller.net/puretext/ https://stevemiller.net/puretext/
babypuncher 5y ago
It's probably false, as others in this thread are struggling to validate this Twitter user's claims.
not1ofU 5y ago
CTLR + Shift + v You're welcome ;-)
- not1ofU 5y ago
  I wish I could edit this, because something even better I had forgotten about (since I use Mac for work these days, and I wish there was alternative to this in Mac) best ever - ClCl [0] https://www.nakka.com/soft/clcl/index_eng.html https://www.nakka.com/soft/clcl/index_eng.html It basically a clipboard manager, but the best one Ive ever used. Can create templates, use Alt+v to paste from list.Super intuitive. Its better than I am describing for sure, and its free. (cannot find equivelant for Mac)
Bluecobra 5y ago
Preserving text formatting is probably one of most useless features I have to workaround with on an almost daily basis by using Notepad. It makes me wonder how much productivity was lost vs. gained globally by this “feature”.

bob1029 5y ago

Edit: Deleted my original posting. Getting some pretty hostile vibes on basic attempts to contribute to this thread.

jaywalk 5y ago
What does that have to do with the Run dialog?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

musicale 5y ago

Helpful for passwords and other information you might want to share.

hypothesis 5y ago

What’s interesting is the fact that telemetry is a feature at this point (how old is Windows 10?) and you can’t win a fight against a core OS feature. Why are people still trying to fight this?

trangus_1985 5y ago
You've always been able to turn it off with group policy and disabling the reporting service. It still bugs me, on principle, that you can't easily disable it even on the Pro edition.
- hypothesis 5y ago
  That’s like trying to disable all those similar things in Firefox. But you can’t really, not unless you stop updating it, because you’ll miss something at some point. And that’s not even an ‘evil corp’ we’re talking here.
  - trangus_1985 5y ago
    I've had it disabled for years, without it reporting home. So far, Microsoft seems to respect group policy and disabled services on Pro edition.
    - gruez 5y ago
      >So far, Microsoft seems to respect group policy on Pro edition the group policy description explicitly says it does not respect it unless you're using enterprise or education. > [...] >If you enable this setting, you can decide what level of diagnostic data to send to Microsoft, including: >- 0 (Security). Sends only a minimal amount of data to Microsoft, required to help keep Windows secure. Windows security components, such as the Malicious Software Removal Tool (MSRT) and Windows Defender may send data to Microsoft at this level, if enabled. Setting a value of 0 applies to devices running Enterprise, Education, IoT, or Windows Server editions only. Setting a value of 0 for other editions is equivalent to setting a value of 1. >- 1 (Basic). Sends the same data as a value of 0, plus a very limited amount of diagnostic data, such as basic device info, quality-related data, and app compatibility info. Note that setting values of 0 or 1 will degrade certain experiences on the device. > [...] Disabling the relevant service might stop it regardless, but it's definitely not the group policy.

thesuperbigfrog 5y ago

"Who controls your computer? Is it you?" "Either the user controls the software, or the software controls the users": https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM?t=57 https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM?t=57

p1necone 5y ago

So, what's everyone's favorite desktop/workstation Linux distro as of 2021? Edit: Anyone tried using NixOS as a desktop OS? I like the idea of scripting my setup.

Shadonototra 5y ago
manjaro with XFCE + https://github.com/davekeogh/xfce4-docklike-plugin https://github.com/davekeogh/xfce4-docklike-plugin (check the original repo for the screenshots)
mappu 5y ago
Debian with KDE It's a major distro with excellent security support, it's completely non-commercial, and KDE has a traditional GUI layout with all the optional trimmings (snap to window edges, thumbnail previews in taskbar etc)
- _0ffh 5y ago
  Debian seconded, but with XFCE here.
hpoe 5y ago
Ubuntu with i3.
brian-armstrong 5y ago
Mint with XFCE is quite nice
mithusingh32 5y ago
Regolith-linux It's a ubuntu based with a i3 desktop manager but with newer perfect configurations out of the box.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  +1 for this, particularly if you've never tried i3 but still want to know what the workflow feels like. I run Regolith on my homelab and it works like a charm!

jimbob45 5y ago

Interestingly, the people least likely to disable Windows telemetry are the people MS is most likely to want to hear from because they're the least capable of solving their own issues in Windows and thus represent the most pressing needs for development to fix.

DarkmSparks 5y ago
Thats my preferred explanation of how windows went downhill so quickly after win7. It used to coexist with linux, now basically everyone of "google engineer" quality single boots linux.

inyorgroove 5y ago

There are tools for this, don't go alone (block telemetry via hosts file): https://github.com/builtbybel/privatezilla https://github.com/builtbybel/privatezilla

inyorgroove 5y ago
Also, I block MS telemetry hosts on my router's dns server: https://github.com/crazy-max/WindowsSpyBlocker/blob/master/data/hosts/spy.txt https://github.com/crazy-max/WindowsSpyBlocker/blob/master/d...
not1ofU 5y ago
I had a huge hosts file which I found (cannot find the site now, I seem to have lost the URL), it was so massive, I needed to change some service on Windows to prevent issues on start up. Sometime last year, Windows defender completely blanked out the Hosts file to default empty state. I re-downloaded the file and added an exclusion for it and I just checked it now, and its blank again. After the first time I invested in a pi-hole.

air7 5y ago

One of the relies makes sense to me: it's because the win10 search bar is also a web search and this is intended functionality, normal for search bars. they send a new request every time you type a character i assume for predictive search and fast results. you can also see this in bing for sure.

JacobLinney 5y ago
search bar != run dialogue
NobodyNada 5y ago
This isn’t the search bar though, it’s the “run” window (Win+R), which has no search functionality and is more-or-less equivalent to typing a command in Command Prompt.
- anigbrowl 5y ago
  It has search functionality. I slightly mistyped something the other day and was mystified to see the correct answer in a mini browser window while Windows itself was failing to match it up with the software I had installed and run every day. You can also just start typing search queries and it will try to launch MS Edge as soon as you hit enter.
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    > Windows cannot find 'foobar'. Make sure you typed the name correctly, and then try again.
    - anigbrowl 5y ago
      Maybe you're not using the latest version. I get a mini browser window inviting me to try www.foobar2000.org. Windows 10, 21H1.
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  I'm actually fairly certain that the Twitter post is referring to the start menu search. I see exactly 0 network requests when typing into the run box.

adamrezich 5y ago

if they're gonna do this you'd think they'd have the courtesy to spiffy up the ancient dialog a bit at least

AA-BA-94-2A-56 5y ago

Another mail in the coffin. Why should I use Windows, when Linux is catching up and not using these horrific anti-patterns?

wott 5y ago
> Why should I use Windows, when Linux is catching up and not using these horrific anti-patterns? Don't worry about choosing, little by little the Linux ecosystem (distros, applications) is/will be catching up with these horrific anti-patterns too. After all, it is now in the hands of the same type of guys, who apply the same reasoning (1. how could I improve my piece of software if I don't put telemetry everywhere? 2. Security! Security! Security! Please let me auto-update 3 times a weeks, put a camera in your house, oh and by the way, give me your car keys, it's for your own good.)
- teitoklien 5y ago
  Unlikely, Most linux users usually use foss tools , And whenever any company tries to pull that , it usually leads to outrage in the community to the point even minimal telemetry usually has to be removed.
  - kasabali 5y ago
    Except Mozilla

gentleman11 5y ago

How did the pr people ever spin it so that we call “keyloggers” and “spyware” simple “telemetry” now? Let’s call it what it is

moksly 5y ago
I’m wonder how it remains legal in the EU. Legislation really needs to step up on these things. It’s an American company that’s keeping taps on something like 600 million European citizens. I don’t care what sort of “license agreement” it comes with, that’s just not ok.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
  Legislation exists, enforcement is what's missing.
- alpaca128 5y ago
  At this point most governments and companies are dependent on Windows and don't want to or can't pay the price of a switch. Legal or not, I doubt anything will happen as long as this doesn't change.
  - moksly 5y ago
    I don’t agree with that. I work in the public sector of Denmark and we haven’t had issues getting Microsoft to change things to meet our needs. Well we’re still struggling to get them to commit to never having Azure support work on our things with workers who aren’t EU citizens. But AWS complied with that rather quickly and Microsoft is bound to follow or lose a lot of business. And that last part is what’s important. It’s also why we can turn the telemetry off in the enterprise setups. So all you really need is someone high enough in the EU to make it stop and Microsoft will end it because it’s too valuable for them not to do so. You’re right that we can’t easily leave Microsoft in the public sector, and we don’t really wish to do so either as the education of millions of workers alone would be so expensive there is no business case, but we’re not as reliant on Windows as we once were. Almost all our systems have become platform independent, including office365, and more and more of our new hires have never used a Windows PC when they join us.

wbkang 5y ago

Isn't this the clipboard history? Did anyone verify this claim independently? It's incredibly hard to believe they would upload plain text for 'telemetry'.

kjaftaedi 5y ago
It's true. I'd recommend ShutUp10 to disable this and other 'features' Unfortunately it's not that hard to believe. Let's not forget Ubuntu did this as well and sent everyone's data to Amazon.
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  > It's true. [citation needed]
ziml77 5y ago
I would guess it's either the clipboard history or the typing data telemetry. Both of those can be turned off. I'm sure someone will say that those have turned themselves back on with updates, but I'll believe that when I see it. Edit: actually just noticed that there's nothing to back this claim up. I didn't realize that the reply here was from a different account and not the one that's talking about the whole Win-R sequence. It's entirely possible that this is a packet capture from typing into the start menu search with the web search feature enabled.
not1ofU 5y ago
Its not true, read the entire twitter thread. Its been dubunked already as BS It will send (encrypted / 443) if using start menu search (as it uses bing to inter search as well. But doesnt do this for Run as the tweet is claiming. The PCAP file is also more than a year old (which is not great in fairness)

marcodiego 5y ago

Nice! Let's use it to tell them what we think about it!

1970-01-01 5y ago

Microsoft is somewhat transparent about it: Inking, typing, and speech utterance data This type of Optional diagnostic data includes details about the voice, inking, and typing input features on the device. Samples of the content you type, write, or dictate on the device. Details about status of transcribing input into text https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/data-collection-Windows https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/data-collection-Windows

aaron695 5y ago

Why can we not see what our computers are sending over the internet? If you say Wireshark then you are the problem. It would need to be in something as easy as Task Manager. Ideally you could also just set a token string that if it ever gets sent over the internet you'd get a immediate flag. Then just shove it everywhere. And let the worlds power users work it out. I assume it's a technical issue.

toomanybeersies 5y ago
> Why can we not see what our computers are sending over the internet? That's a feature, not a flaw, of TLS.
- mr_mitm 5y ago
  TLS is meant to protect data in transit. On your own machine, where you have full privileges, there is in principle nothing that stops you from observing traffic before/after it's encrypted. Examples: * https://github.com/SySS-Research/hallucinate https://github.com/SySS-Research/hallucinate * https://sourceforge.net/projects/echomirage.oldbutgold.p/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/echomirage.oldbutgold.p/

jfrunyon 5y ago

Can't duplicate. Also, I'm a bit curious how this person is able to see HTTP2 contents in Wireshark, given its almost-mandatory TLS. Also, I'm extremely surprised that Microsoft would send telemetry without encryption. Also, I'm a bit curious why this looks more like a request that it would send when someone types a search into the Startmenu rather than the Run box. In fact, when typing into (or even running from) the Run box, I see no network requests over ports 80/443. When typing into the Startmenu, I see network requests going to the same M$ IP shown (204.79.197.200), but they are, of course, TLS-encrypted on port 443. Even if I block port 443 in the Windows firewall, it does not fall back to port 80. This is either false, or version dependent. I would lean towards the former. Frankly, if this is real, a bigger problem than the sending of telemetry is the sending of unencrypted telemetry.

josephcsible 5y ago
> Also, I'm a bit curious how this person is able to see HTTP2 contents in Wireshark, given its almost-mandatory TLS. Also, I'm extremely surprised that Microsoft would send telemetry without encryption. Install your own root CA then MITM it?
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  Well, firstly, it wouldn't be port 80 in that case.
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    Could be an artifact of however the proxying or decryption is done, particularly if the goal was to have the traffic be decrypted as it went across the NIC not just to get a copy of the data being proxied locally. Or it could be an artifact of bad editpcap-ing. Same with the all 0s Ethernet source/destinations. Either way I don't think it was the run box that triggered it. Either they didn't know the original run box is still a thing and the field in the taskbar is a search box or they have clipboard history enabled and didn't realize that's a cloud function while they were ctrl+c and ctrl+v-ing into the box.

Santosh83 5y ago

At some point in the last few decades the whole concept of privacy has shifted from "your data known only to you" to "we will protect your data from small-time unsavoury actors, but in exchange, WE ourselves will collect and mine everything about you. The WE here is perpetually growing, where once it was the government and spy agencies, now it has become platform providers, service providers and pretty much everyone who can get a vendor lockin or near-monopoly established.

Infinitesimus 5y ago

It probably should only send to the telemetry endpoints when you try to run the command. Otherwise it doesn't seem nefarious if you have telemetry enabled on the OS does it? Knowing the commands people often use the Run dialog for can be a useful input for making usability and stability improvements. (Eg: a sudden influx of people running explorer.exe might hint at something etc. ) Of course, MS telemetry is in many places and it's not always clear where so it is often a surprise to find these spots when you start looking.

roody15 5y ago

Just a mess. Click on start… type updates … searching… wait … wait … oh updates in control panel Such a simple search but somehow microsoft manages to make it such , first it searches the web (why? we have browsers for this ) sends a copy to micsoft… then finally pops up with what you want. I know this is not the same as the run dialogue but just reminds of how borked some of microsoft products have become.

literallyaduck 5y ago

Time to contact your state legislators and ask for state specific privacy laws ban tracking even with consent.

x0n 5y ago

Nobody can duplicate/repro the behavior. https://twitter.com/Lee_Holmes/status/1440104895474909191 https://twitter.com/Lee_Holmes/status/1440104895474909191

mrtweetyhack 5y ago

can someone capture the packets and start sending them junk?

jojo2000 5y ago

Entire departments at big corps code such "features". What a waste of brainpower. Go dev some OSS stuff for less money guys, the world needs you.

netresec 5y ago

We deleted this tweet earlier today. Thanks to everyone who fact checked our statement and reached out to notify us about the mistake! A correction has been posted here: https://twitter.com/netresec/status/1440298935868743686 https://twitter.com/netresec/status/1440298935868743686