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I think what it really brings to light (at least for me) is the incompetence of the CCP in the matter. I have no qualms about China conducting research in this

I think what it really brings to light (at least for me) is the incompetence of the CCP in the matter. I have no qualms about China conducting research in this regard, other countries are doing it too and we would be naive to think otherwise. However, if it is proven to be true that gain of function research was being conducted at the Wuhan laboratory, it highlights the sheer stupidity of the government in thinking they could build a military bio-weapons research laboratory in the heart of a major city center. Western nations that do have such facilities place them far away from high-density urban populations, precisely as a last-ditch measure to mitigate the impact of an (eventual) breach. It's worse for the CCP if it boils down to incompetence rather than malice. Becoming a laughingstock of the world and not being taken seriously is perhaps their deepest fear.

krull10 5y ago
I don’t know if they do gain of function research there, but NEIDL is in the heart of Boston. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emerging_Infectious_Diseases_Laboratories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emerging_Infectious_D...
- timr 5y ago
  Pretty much every BSL4 facility in the US is within easy commuting distance from a major city. The CDC being a great example. These are not military, but it doesn't matter.
  - DisjointedHunt 5y ago
    In the US. . . EVERYTHING is Military. EVERYTHING.
angelzen 5y ago
Zing! This is how communist regimes work in practice: * Utter incompetency. Got to promote the 'working class' in positions of authority across the board regardless of actual qualifications. Got to follow ideological prescriptions to a T regardless of real-world outcomes. * Extreme message control. The communist society is perfect, except for those horrible people that refuse to support the party 100%. And also moving every day closer to perfection. Don't you dare ask questions, because then you become the reason why perfection has not been achieved, and the Party, as the legitimate representative of the people, will be justified to act against you.
- justicezyx 5y ago
  > communist regimes Not sure how this comes into the question. There has not been a communist regime on earth, according to Karl Marx's definition. And China is a capitalism country... Ask any mentally stable US citizen visiting China, if they tell you that China is in any bit less capitalism than USA, they probably are trying not to offend your American Exceptionalism.
  - AdvancedSimian 5y ago
    So we're getting the "real communism has never been tried" trope here on HN? Honest question: do fascists use the same excuse?
    - justicezyx 5y ago
      Well, if you read it. You can see that one way to frame the discussion is to discuss as it is, and not applying grandiose general statement. If one say, I often see Chinese government is incompetent, and list some examples; then follow with a proposition that since China claims to be pursuing the communism ideology, and all previous attempts in any government has incompetency. That's a closely relevant reasoning. "Communist government utterly incompetency" as a statement is what? Really makes sense to you at all? And back to the original statement, communism country simply does not apply, since China is not communism...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
justicezyx 5y ago
> the incompetence of the CCP in the matter. Oh, how incompetent. They shut down a 10MM population city overnight... If any other one can do that for a 1MM population city, we'd have a nice vacation in some random city on earth...
Aeolun 5y ago
> I think what it really brings to light (at least for me) is the incompetence of the CCP in the matter. Incompetence? I think the regime came out of this pretty well. They’ve completely disrupted literally every country in the world, and China itself has been only marginally affected, lacking any of the truly large waves that devastated the US and India.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  If they were competent, wouldn't they have made it look like Israel or Iran or the US or Islamic terrorists were responsible for the outbreak?

krull10 5y ago

I don’t know if they do gain of function research there, but NEIDL is in the heart of Boston. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emerging_Infectious_Diseases_Laboratories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emerging_Infectious_D...

timr 5y ago
Pretty much every BSL4 facility in the US is within easy commuting distance from a major city. The CDC being a great example. These are not military, but it doesn't matter.
- DisjointedHunt 5y ago
  In the US. . . EVERYTHING is Military. EVERYTHING.

angelzen 5y ago

Zing! This is how communist regimes work in practice: * Utter incompetency. Got to promote the 'working class' in positions of authority across the board regardless of actual qualifications. Got to follow ideological prescriptions to a T regardless of real-world outcomes. * Extreme message control. The communist society is perfect, except for those horrible people that refuse to support the party 100%. And also moving every day closer to perfection. Don't you dare ask questions, because then you become the reason why perfection has not been achieved, and the Party, as the legitimate representative of the people, will be justified to act against you.

justicezyx 5y ago
> communist regimes Not sure how this comes into the question. There has not been a communist regime on earth, according to Karl Marx's definition. And China is a capitalism country... Ask any mentally stable US citizen visiting China, if they tell you that China is in any bit less capitalism than USA, they probably are trying not to offend your American Exceptionalism.
- AdvancedSimian 5y ago
  So we're getting the "real communism has never been tried" trope here on HN? Honest question: do fascists use the same excuse?
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    Well, if you read it. You can see that one way to frame the discussion is to discuss as it is, and not applying grandiose general statement. If one say, I often see Chinese government is incompetent, and list some examples; then follow with a proposition that since China claims to be pursuing the communism ideology, and all previous attempts in any government has incompetency. That's a closely relevant reasoning. "Communist government utterly incompetency" as a statement is what? Really makes sense to you at all? And back to the original statement, communism country simply does not apply, since China is not communism...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

justicezyx 5y ago

> the incompetence of the CCP in the matter. Oh, how incompetent. They shut down a 10MM population city overnight... If any other one can do that for a 1MM population city, we'd have a nice vacation in some random city on earth...

Aeolun 5y ago

> I think what it really brings to light (at least for me) is the incompetence of the CCP in the matter. Incompetence? I think the regime came out of this pretty well. They’ve completely disrupted literally every country in the world, and China itself has been only marginally affected, lacking any of the truly large waves that devastated the US and India.

oh_sigh 5y ago
If they were competent, wouldn't they have made it look like Israel or Iran or the US or Islamic terrorists were responsible for the outbreak?