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Countries that have accepted the World Passport
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- pixiemaster 5y agolooks like a good idea, at least symbolically. But: upload a scan of my ID card to an untrusted source? isn’t there a better way?
- nikkinana 5y agoNobody cares.
- nmeofthestate 5y agoSo, is this a bit like "clubs that have accepted my fake id, thus proving it is genuine"? I'm assuming customs are accidentally accepting passports that were printed by internet randos.
- aix1 5y agoImmigration rather than customs[*], but yeah. [*] Customs deal with the flow of things, whereas immigration services deal with the flow of people.
- jtakkala 5y agoCorrect, and generally known as ‘passport control’ in Europe and many other countries. I think ‘immigration’ is primarily used by English speaking New World countries which historically had large scale immigration (as in, settlement) programs after the world wars—although I don’t have a definitive source for this.
- aix1 5y agoRight, and in the UK we call personnel working at passport control immigration officers: https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-profiles/immigration-officer https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-profiles/immigrat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_officer#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_officer#United_Kin...
- AutumnCurtain 5y agoGiven the countries they cite as having accepted it (decades ago!) , it looks mostly useful as a tool to check whether a baseline level of border security even exists.
- funwares 5y agoI was interested in the countries in bold that have been listed as officially recognizing the passport. The wikipedia page (which lists this passport as a "fantasy travel document") is skeptical: > "The World Service Authority website has scans of letters dating from many decades ago from six countries (Burkina Faso, Ecuador, Mauritania, Tanzania, Togo and Zambia) which the WSA claims is legal recognition of the World Passports. " > "These letters of recognition are several decades old (i.e., 1954 for Ecuador, 1972 for Burkina Faso, 1975 for Mauritania, 1995 for Tanzania, 1983 for Togo, 1973 for Zambia)" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Passport https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Passport
- Arubis 5y agoAlso notably, of that list, Burkina Faso and Togo border each other, as do Tanzania and Zambia (though the acceptance dates don't line up). In the cases of Ecuador and Mauritania, how acceptance happened on one side of each of their border, but not the other, is left as an exercise to the reader (and this reader is inferring that they were refused—but both of those nations have large, porous borders, so there's any number of possibilities, many of which illicit).
- andix 5y agoSo most countries probably accepted this passport by accident? By a border guard that was too tired or lazy to take a look, who issued the passport?
- Macha 5y agoYeah, it used to be the case until a few years ago that the immigration here was run by the police and a lot of them would pretty much just wave you by if you were a white guy in the Irish citizens queue that took out a passport without inspecting it. At the distance some of them looked, pretty sure anything the right shade of red and right shape would have done. Certainly _other_ EU passports would not have been distinguishable from an Irish passport at that level of inspection. Nowadays we have a separate immigration staff and they'll at least look at the passport insides.
- ceejayoz 5y agoA few months before 9/11 my France -> Switzerland border control on the TGV was a conductor asking our train car "Is anyone not allowed in Switzerland? OK, good." Almost jarring, having gone through US border controls a lot.
- athenot 5y agoThat would have been 3 years before they officially became part of the Schengen space.
- refurb 5y ago9/11 changed a lot. Before then it wasn’t unusual for Americans and Canadians who lived close to the border to freely cross without identification if they were recognized by the guard.
- dathinab 5y agoFor the "France -> Switzerland" border not much changed, it's still super easy to pass (maybe even easier) due to Schengen space. (Ignoring covid special cases for a moment.) Not all but a lot of border in Schegen space already often (not always) had very lose controls years before Schegen space was established, it was one of many reasons why it was established. I.e. it was doubling down on a already well establish trend.
- madacol 5y ago"Success in crossing a border using a World Passport is generally attributable to the whim or ignorance of individual immigration officers, not official recognition of the document." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Passport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Passport
- Aeolun 5y agoThat sounds logical? A document given out by a US nonprofit doesn’t have any legal status.
- shawnz 5y agoWhy would a passport need to have legal status in the US to be recognized anywhere besides the US?
- kadoban 5y agoBecause generally countries care about passports from other countries. It's certainly not a necessity, international/foreign law can be whatever nonsense you want, but that's how it usually works.
- refurb 5y agoBecause countries have specific laws about what constitutes acceptable documents for entry into a country and the usually include things like “issued by a countries recognized and lawful issuer of passports”? Most immigration decisions are negotiated and often reciprocal (you give me visa free travel, I’ll give you visa free travel). Unless a document is specifically recognized as issues from a non-state entity (e.g. UN refugee passports) they aren’t valid travel documents anywhere.
- shawnz 5y agoLike you say yourself it is possible that non-state entities can have their travel documents recognized in some cases. I don't see any reason why that non-state entity couldn't potentially be a US non-profit. Obviously in this particular case, this agency's documents are not widely recognized, but that has nothing to do with their legal status in the US.
- ilamont 5y agoThe following is a list of countries which, on at least one occasion, have recognized the World Passport on a "de facto" basis, by stamping a national visa and/or entry/exit stamp. It's a stretch to interpret one-off stamps in various countries to recognition of the world passport as a legitimate travel document. "Passports" based on strongly held beliefs about identity (global, regional, tribal, or otherwise) as opposed to national citizenship and the legal frameworks that underpin international travel almost always run into the cold, hard reality of border-crossing procedures, as holders of passports created by North American tribes discovered some years ago: "Native American nations debate sovereignty after Iroquois passport dispute" https://www.deseret.com/2010/7/17/20128594/native-american-nations-debate-sovereignty-after-iroquois-passport-dispute https://www.deseret.com/2010/7/17/20128594/native-american-n...) "My six nation Haudenosaunee passport is not a 'fantasy document'" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/30/my-six-nation-haudenosaunee-passport-not-fantasy-document-indigenous-nations https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/30/my-six...
- Aeolun 5y agoI dunno what they expected. Even if it was recognized at one point it’s not recognized any more now. A passport is only as useful as it’s acceptance, and that’s been true for centuries.
- cat199 5y ago> strongly held beliefs about identity Not an expert on US tribal law, but US-recognized tribes have signed treaties as 'nations' with the US federal government; membership and 'nationhood' is therefore more than just a 'belief', and has some level of legal legitimacy and status within the commonly agreed upon system of treaties underlying international travel obviously not enough for it to count for too much, even domestically, but - main point - this isn't just a 'belief' from a legal perspective as is/would be in the case of this 'world passport'.
- ilamont 5y agoYou are correct. Tribal nations are recognized as such by the United States.
- ols 5y agoThis "World Passport" document is on the official EU list of fantasy passports to which a visa may not be affixed: https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/list-known-fantasy-and-camouflage-passports_en https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/list-known-fantasy-and-cam.... No EU country recognizes it. I just checked the scan "confirming" that it is accepted by Poland and that proof is a temporary 14 day visa issued in June 1990 in Berlin embassy by a 65y old communist diplomat/spy (according to publicly available documents). With a stamp of "Polish People's Republic" - a name that was changed to "Republic of Poland" at the end of 1989. I guess that was a moment in time where anyone in that embassy could happily stamp an outdated visa on anything for $50.
- kylehotchkiss 5y agoInteresting to see US immigrant visa entry stamps in the photo section - were these people whose countries were no longer viable and were given some special permission to use this passport? Were they refugees? Seems better if US could issue a joint one-time passport/visa type of credential for travelers in those situations
- elliekelly 5y agoEvery so often I come across a story about what it’s like to travel internationally as a stateless person and I always find them fascinating. Here’s one recent(ish) example: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/10/14/refugees-and-exiles-were-in-lockdown-long-before-the-pandemic/ https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/10/14/refugees-and-e...
- Symbiote 5y agoI expect they're mistakes, or people somehow convincing the border official to stamp their novelty passport. The USA (and several other countries) issues Refugee Travel Documents when required. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_travel_document https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_travel_document
- aptwebapps 5y agoHere's an interesting account by the originator meeting Nehru: https://www.news18.com/blogs/india/manu-bhagavan/an-interview-with-garry-davis-the-first-world-citizen-11457-747207.html https://www.news18.com/blogs/india/manu-bhagavan/an-intervie...
- omarhaneef 5y agoSeems very risky to try this. Imagine the authority responsible for border security arrests you for document falsification. You can’t very well call your embassy.
- dustintrex 5y agoIt's not a fake passport, it's just an unrecognized passport. Odds are you will just be denied entry. That said, even getting turned around the border can be pretty painful, and you're often asked to declare this kind of thing on every single visa application for the rest of your life.
- rsj_hn 5y agoNo, it is a fake passport. While you may be denied entry, you may end up in a bit more trouble depending on whether the custom officials recognized you were playing a joke on them or whether they thought the document you were presenting was a real passport.
- refurb 5y agoNot sure “fake” is the right word as it infers it’s not authentic. Unrecognized would be more accurate. Some countries are not equally recognized as independent states. Apparently Turkey doesn’t recognize Cyprus. So let’s say Kurdistan decides to declare independence, but only 2 countries recognize it. Is the passport fake? Most people would say no. Just like fiat currency, passports are only “real” when people believe they are real. Otherwise they are just paper with writing on them.
- rsj_hn 5y agoNo, a passport is a travel document and there are requirements set by each nation as to what is an authentic travel document and what is not. It is those nation's requirements that apply when you are at their border, responding to their request for the documentation you have been told in advance you will need. These requirements are legal requirements, made known to you when you inquire as to what are the necessary documents when requesting entry to a nation. Each embassy can tell you that. If you present just any old paper when asked to present a valid travel document, then you are either playing a joke on the requestor (not a good idea) or you are representing that the travel document you are providing meets the requirements of the travel document that is requested. In which case it is fraudulent. It's fake. It is no different when you are pulled over by a cop and asked to provide proof of insurance, and you give him your handwritten note that says your uncle will insure you. Are you going to try to argue that your uncle is just an unrecognized insurance company and so your insurance card is not fake? Every sane person will think your insurance card is a fake card. So it is when a custom officials asks you to present a passport and you give them this document.
- sumedh 5y agoTheir motto is "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." You may have the right to leave but you dont have a right to enter a different country without their permission.
- cptaj 5y agoWell you should otherwise you don't really have the right to leave. I live in a dictatorship that actively suppresses passport requests by its citizens. You have no idea how much I support this initiative. You have no idea what its like to have military assholes controlling your life and the rest of the world turning a blind eye when you just want to live peacefully. It could've been you instead of me. This is a right worth fighting for.
- nmeofthestate 5y agoThis is a bit like saying all houses shouldn't have locks because they can be used to lock people inside against their will.
- zekrioca 5y agoExcept that houses are not the same as countries.
- rootsudo 5y agoMy parents would disagree.
- zekrioca 5y agoSo would people living in Palestine.
- nmeofthestate 5y agoHouses are a lot like countries in this analogy.
- JeffRosenberg 5y agoI agree with all the comments here that this seems pretty sketchy, and that "de facto" acceptance seems more like "accidental" acceptance. But I've been interested in the idea of "global citizenship" for a while... Are there any less sketchy organizations working towards a similar end?
- thefounder 5y agoYou can't have "global citizenship" without a "global social welfare system".
- rwmj 5y agoThe EU's Freedom of Movement is a remarkable achievement. It's far from world wide and doesn't even aim for that, but it does allow you to move freely in ~30 sovereign countries. (Shame some 70 million of us just lost it)
- JeffRosenberg 5y agoAgreed, although that doesn't help me as a US citizen :-)
- __s 5y agoEven for you it means that if you get a Schengen visa (ie a visa for a country in the Schengen zone) that you may travel freely around the Schengen zone with that visa for 90 days
- moftz 5y agoAn interesting idea but the whole point of a passport is to prove which country are a citizen of. Countries set their visa policies to accept or deny based on passport origin. A US passport can get you a visa quickly in most places in the world but a North Korean passport would likely not. If I can simply pay for a World Passport, what incentive do they have to diligently verify my documents? Obviously a country could produce fake passports for their own citizens but that would be for some specific reason like espionage. Maybe a small country would produce a passport for me with a big bribe but I'm guessing the countries willing to do so are at the bottom of the list of "most accepted passports". Allowing anyone to get a passport with little scrutiny just devalues the passport. Perhaps in a more enlightened time, something like a UN passport would allow stateless people to travel easily to countries that would accept it.
- rootsudo 5y agoNo, most countries allow you to purchase a citizen and depending on your ancestry or knowledge of several country constitutions you could just walk in and demand citizenship. St. Kitts & Nevis, accepted over 100 places, fairly powerful, purchase price at about 100k. Real estate can be a trust where you have partial ownership of a parcel which value is in excess of any amount needed to prove financial interest. Antigua and Barbuda, same 100k gets you papers and a passport in a week with 150+ countries. Price doubles for St. Lucia, but you're talking about 150 countries of visa free for 200k. UN passports actually are highly suspicious, simply because of the diplomatic ties it contains - and bad image you can present the country in. You're there to highlight a political event, not to take leisure or secure travel. Very different circumstances.
- nivenkos 5y agoI love that it even has Esperanto on the cover.
- zubi 5y agoAnd on every page, it seems.
- bob229 5y agoLol what a load of crackpot nonsense, half those links are dead or photoshopped
- Aeolun 5y agoI like the idea, but something about this feels really dubious to me. I notice that the person that started all this is still the ‘world govenor’, and has single handedly appointed all the commitees.
- marcus_holmes 5y agoOne of the Aussie visas is clearly from Canada, doesn't bode well for their grasp of geography. edit: see below. I didn't read it right.
- chrismorgan 5y agoI presume you’re talking of https://worldservice.org/visas/2/Usa_Australia.jpg https://worldservice.org/visas/2/Usa_Australia.jpg. Yes, it has a 1998 Canadian stamp in the top half, but it also has a 1999 Australian stamp on the lower half. A departure stamp, incidentally, which I imagine could be less picky about what they stamp, and marked Hamilton Island, a fairly small tourist place. I dunno, did Hamilton Island Airport perhaps do some international flights back then? It looks to be domestic-only now.
- marcus_holmes 5y agoThanks for the correction, I didn't spot that at all. I know that Australian immigration match passports at both ends of trips - I'm dual-national and if I don't get the right passport at the desk they ask me for the other one. So I would suspect this is domestic and the stamp is a vanity thing.
- tim333 5y agoWe could do with a more real version of this with an area of land that anyone could go live. Maybe the US / EU could lease somewhere for 200 years say for refugees and the like to be able to hang out?
- theonlybutlet 5y agoI would not trust this list at all. Rapper Mos Def was arrested and charged in South Africa for trying to use his 'World Passport'. It's considered a fake document and is a criminal offence.
- ilamont 5y ago“He wanted to start using the World Passport because it’s more representative of his personal ideals and philosophies,” the representative told FP. He said Bey, whose lyrics often touch on issues of social justice, has been disheartened by the way police have treated young black men in the United States. That, and “just the whole idea of the world as being a unified place a place without borders or boundaries” made Bey prefer the World Passport over his American one. One of Bey’s recent projects reflects that belief: He has helped build A Country Called Earth, a website that uses art, writing, and music to challenge conventional ideas about borders and nationalities. https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/01/15/mos-def-was-arrested-in-south-africa-for-using-a-world-passport-yes-thats-a-real-thing/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/01/15/mos-def-was-arrested-in...
- jsudi 5y agoI’m going to start using fake money. It’s more representative of my personal ideals and philosophies.
- fossuser 5y agoI know you’re being sarcastic, but Bitcoin and the rest of crypto? If enough people start using “fake” money then it stops being fake.
- samus 5y agoStates can expect payment of taxes and fees in their currency and can force businesses in their jurisdiction to accept their currency. Most importantly, they have sticks and guns to enforce that. This is the crucial difference between "fake" and "normal" currencies and is unlikely to change as long as states exist. People might trade in cryptocurrencies between them, but they will find it necessary to convert it to other currencies whenever a state can force them to.
- beej71 5y agoI like the idea (from WP) of having it as the passport you hand over in a place that requires it (for motorbike rental or somesuch).
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y agoFor all the talk about "World Citizenship", the reality is if you actually had world-wide democracy where everyone could vote, you would actually end up with a very regressive government in terms of women's rights and LGBTQ rights. Those rights mainly are accepted in Western Europe and the US, and by the business elite in many countries. But among the vast majority of the populations of Asia, Africa, and the Middle East, those rights are not accepted. With such different views about basic rights, I am actually happy that we do not have a global government, but that I can live in a country that respects those rights.
- bobthechef 5y agoAnd on the flip size, those living in countries that reject the notion that these are rights don't wish to be subjected to ceaseless attempts to jam them down their throats. Yet that is what's happening. That's what the American empire and its proxies has been doing. But trust me. Anyone who's interested in "world citizenship" isn't keen on letting people vote, certainly not those you call "regressive".
- Arubis 5y agoThere's opportunity for nuance in these concepts. World citizenship needn't mean the elimination of any other hierarchy of rule and representation, in the same sense that the existence of the US Federal government doesn't eliminate state law, nor the EU government negate individual nations. There exist some entities like this already, like the International Court of Justice (although admittedly weakened by being beholden to countries signing on). However, your point in that most folks that use the phrase "citizen of the world" are likely to be more politically progressive writ large than the median person strikes me as likely to be true.
- dathinab 5y agoHm, "tricking" personal at the border(1) =! country accepted passport of certain kind (1) Or personal was aware but simply didn't care.