7 ms·

I don't understand the way their enforcement works. I've reported videos of people literally setting live animals on fire and been told there was no violation,

by donatj 5y ago

I don't understand the way their enforcement works. I've reported videos of people literally setting live animals on fire and been told there was no violation, but my wife called someone a "loser" and got a week long ban.

MattGaiser 5y ago
I suspect it is automated. A computer can easily flag calling someone a loser. Not sure if FB has burning animals as a automated flag yet.
- donatj 5y ago
  I had the option to have the post re-reviewed, which took two days. I mean it could just be theatre, but I assumed on the second round a human reviewed it. From the support response: > The post was reviewed, and though it doesn't go against one of our specific Community Standards, you did the right thing by letting us know about it. Setting squirrels on fire and watching the poor things scurry around I guess is cool with Facebook's Community Standards.
  - hirako2000 5y ago
    Yes. Precisely. I think it is because the community of squirrels have no ability to retaliate. If we observe the trend, the pull down are proportionate to the strength of the retaliators. Being against say LGBT isn't the same as being anti christian. Hit a particular group of people or ideology, the bans are well automated at this point.
    - adolph 5y ago
      > the community of squirrels have no ability to retaliate Tell that to my garden. (I don't condone messing with wildlife in any way. However, I would like my arugula to grow up not behind bars.)
      - hirako2000 5y ago
        They can't retaliate against social media platforms. And as to your garden, they aren't retaliating, they simply explore the commons to continue on life. Theirs and also contribute to a well balanced ecosystem for life as a whole to continue. You are in your right to scare them off, of somewhat fence your goods to keep them at bay. Torturing those animals, or any animal for that matter does nothing to controlling their damage to your previous fruits of labor. Keeping them away is the best investment of time and effort if you don't see their value.
  - junon 5y ago
    > Setting squirrels on fire and watching the poor things scurry around I guess is cool with Facebook's Community Standards. Unfortunately nothing else you can do about it, either. Who do you even report this to? There's no LEO agency that would spend resources on that even though this is a well known pre-cursor to homicide. Shit like that reminds me how failed society is - to be able to literally torture animals and face little to no repercussions, and get tons of clout and maybe even some money (ad revenue or whatever) in the process.
    - bambax 5y ago
      The problem with animal cruelty is that modern industrial animal farming is torture, and torture of the worst kind. So it's diffucult to draw the line without angering powerful groups and rich advertisers.
      - junon 5y ago
        > and torture of the worst kind. Not always, depends on where you are. Being set on fire is probably not better than the conditions of industral farms. Let's be realistic.
        bambax 5y ago
        A squirrel that lives freely in nature and is once set on fire, that it will likely survive (and even if not) has a better life than a sow in a cage indoors where it can't move, is constantly pregnant and crushes its own babies because there is no space.
    - MattGaiser 5y ago
      Most crimes, even if reported, are not meaningfully investigated. I am not sure that is really society failing. Society is still better on that than ever before.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - bambax 5y ago
    Content policy is just like airport security: a theater. You cannot take a bottle of water on board a plane, but you can take a laptop with enormous batteries. In my experience it's much easier to set lithium batteries on fire, than water. But what do I know.
  - isk517 5y ago
    Anyone want to bet that when some major news publication does a story about how these types of videos are being spread on Facebook they announce that they go against their community standards and that the company had no idea this is going on.
- datavirtue 5y ago
  Why can't users moderate the post so that Facebook does know about the animal torture? -5 Animal Torture
- chefandy 5y ago
  Some of the actions are automated based on some NN algorithm score, and then the appeals are human-powered. They have large third party content review offices that are operated like call centers in which humans review these things. I understand they're real meat grinders to work in. I've reported clearly racist, harassing content before and had the reviewer report it as confirming to their standards. I know people that were banned for bullying for wishing people happy birthday. As much as I suspected a bunch of people are just quickly mashing random buttons to pump up their score, I read that they're evaluated based on the success and failure of appeals to their judgements, so I can't imagine they would be. There are clearly deep-seated problems with this process.
radu_floricica 5y ago
This is actually discouraging non-brigades from reporting. I reported obviously spam accounts and got the same feedback after a few weeks. Now I don't bother. Brigades on the other hand have the motivation to play the numbers.
mtnGoat 5y ago
I once made fun of Justin Bieber(said he acts like a baby) on IG, and got a warning. Some guy threatened to Hunt me and my family, kill us and do bad things to our bodies and IG said it didn’t violate any rules, when I reported it. My account can now not even post the word “chump” without warnings. Talk about backwards. It’s very safe to say there is no adult in the room at FB/IG when it comes to rule enforcement. I simply cannot wait until they get the whip from some governments.
- gordon_freeman 5y ago
  I don't want to do victim blaming or shaming here but why would you use any fb product knowing well about their awful business practices like these?
  - CiPHPerCoder 5y ago
    I maintain an account only so nobody can impersonate me to others.
    - cratermoon 5y ago
      Ditto. Squatting my own identity.
  - hirako2000 5y ago
    Because of its network effect. Removing facebook, in a way is removing members of our connection circles.
    - brodouevencode 5y ago
      > removing members of our connection circles Does it really? Whatever happened to just a friendly weekly email?
      - EamonnMR 5y ago
        It got replaced by social media
smcl 5y ago
Yeah I gave up reporting. I’ve reported some people being extremely racist in comments, no action in either case. It’s either moderated by racist people, some poor AI or “rand()%2==0”
- gjs278 5y ago
  why does it bother you so much
tonfreed 5y ago
Same, I've reported a ton of death threats only to be told they're not in violation. Only for my mum to cop an autoban for calling someone a spring chicken. Their moderation is a complete joke.
josefresco 5y ago
My wife (an American) also got flagged for saying "Americans are selfish". She then made a post about our RV (camper) asking about sewer "hook ups" at a campground and was flagged for posting what looked like a sex ad. We (the kids and I) now lovingly call her "hate speech Mom".
- adolph 5y ago
  > asking about sewer "hook ups" at a campground No lie, that is dirty talk.
- bambax 5y ago
  > We (the kids and I) now lovingly call her "hate speech Mom". Hook-up mom would be better.
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  Especially after Jan 6, there are a couple of things you can say in an ordinary spirited political debate that will cop you a ban on FB. One is several flavors of "Americans are X," another is variants on "Kill the filibuster" (which I assume is pattern-matching to '[violence-word] the [congress-word], which they probably up-sampled in the threat modeling for, uh, obvious reasons).
  - josefresco 5y ago
    The worse part is that in her eagerness to close the "prompt" on her phone she "agreed" she had posted this content (instead of appeal), which probably put some sort of permanent mark on her record. One can only hope she gets kicked off for good one of these days!
    - IggleSniggle 5y ago
      wtf?? I haven't been on FB for about 10 years now and every now and then a comment like this comes along which makes me realize just how out of touch with the global bureaucracy I've become
KaiserPro 5y ago
simple: if you are important, then you get a moderator. If you are a pleb, its up to the AI. so unless that video has been fingerprinted, then it'll be approved. if the sentiment analysis AI says you were being abusive: ban. if you appeal (if you can) it might, perhaps 1/100,00 times be looked at by a human
himinlomax 5y ago
I got a 48h ban for calling the Japanese military "the japs" in the context of the Rape of Nanking. Wouldn't want to offend the group that raped and murdered millions now, would we? A friend got a 48h ban for calling herself a "rital," a term for an Italian immigrant in France that used to be derogatory a century ago.
tjpnz 5y ago
This is also the same company that allowed a terrorist to livestream a killing spree for 17 minutes despite it being reported over and over again. To add insult to injury they allowed copies of the same footage to proliferate across their platform for weeks. Facebook spend a lot on PR talking up their AI capabilities and how it's being applied towards moderation. Would be nice if it actually worked.
atkailash 5y ago
I was in Facebook jail for “bullying” someone when I took his exact phrasing, changed relevant details and applied it to him. I reported 9 comments misgendering a trans person and none of them were considered against community standards, supposedly. It’s ridiculous

by donatj 5y ago

MattGaiser 5y ago

I suspect it is automated. A computer can easily flag calling someone a loser. Not sure if FB has burning animals as a automated flag yet.

donatj 5y ago
I had the option to have the post re-reviewed, which took two days. I mean it could just be theatre, but I assumed on the second round a human reviewed it. From the support response: > The post was reviewed, and though it doesn't go against one of our specific Community Standards, you did the right thing by letting us know about it. Setting squirrels on fire and watching the poor things scurry around I guess is cool with Facebook's Community Standards.
- hirako2000 5y ago
  Yes. Precisely. I think it is because the community of squirrels have no ability to retaliate. If we observe the trend, the pull down are proportionate to the strength of the retaliators. Being against say LGBT isn't the same as being anti christian. Hit a particular group of people or ideology, the bans are well automated at this point.
  - adolph 5y ago
    > the community of squirrels have no ability to retaliate Tell that to my garden. (I don't condone messing with wildlife in any way. However, I would like my arugula to grow up not behind bars.)
    - hirako2000 5y ago
      They can't retaliate against social media platforms. And as to your garden, they aren't retaliating, they simply explore the commons to continue on life. Theirs and also contribute to a well balanced ecosystem for life as a whole to continue. You are in your right to scare them off, of somewhat fence your goods to keep them at bay. Torturing those animals, or any animal for that matter does nothing to controlling their damage to your previous fruits of labor. Keeping them away is the best investment of time and effort if you don't see their value.
- junon 5y ago
  > Setting squirrels on fire and watching the poor things scurry around I guess is cool with Facebook's Community Standards. Unfortunately nothing else you can do about it, either. Who do you even report this to? There's no LEO agency that would spend resources on that even though this is a well known pre-cursor to homicide. Shit like that reminds me how failed society is - to be able to literally torture animals and face little to no repercussions, and get tons of clout and maybe even some money (ad revenue or whatever) in the process.
  - bambax 5y ago
    The problem with animal cruelty is that modern industrial animal farming is torture, and torture of the worst kind. So it's diffucult to draw the line without angering powerful groups and rich advertisers.
    - junon 5y ago
      > and torture of the worst kind. Not always, depends on where you are. Being set on fire is probably not better than the conditions of industral farms. Let's be realistic.
      - bambax 5y ago
        A squirrel that lives freely in nature and is once set on fire, that it will likely survive (and even if not) has a better life than a sow in a cage indoors where it can't move, is constantly pregnant and crushes its own babies because there is no space.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    Most crimes, even if reported, are not meaningfully investigated. I am not sure that is really society failing. Society is still better on that than ever before.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bambax 5y ago
  Content policy is just like airport security: a theater. You cannot take a bottle of water on board a plane, but you can take a laptop with enormous batteries. In my experience it's much easier to set lithium batteries on fire, than water. But what do I know.
- isk517 5y ago
  Anyone want to bet that when some major news publication does a story about how these types of videos are being spread on Facebook they announce that they go against their community standards and that the company had no idea this is going on.
datavirtue 5y ago
Why can't users moderate the post so that Facebook does know about the animal torture? -5 Animal Torture
chefandy 5y ago
Some of the actions are automated based on some NN algorithm score, and then the appeals are human-powered. They have large third party content review offices that are operated like call centers in which humans review these things. I understand they're real meat grinders to work in. I've reported clearly racist, harassing content before and had the reviewer report it as confirming to their standards. I know people that were banned for bullying for wishing people happy birthday. As much as I suspected a bunch of people are just quickly mashing random buttons to pump up their score, I read that they're evaluated based on the success and failure of appeals to their judgements, so I can't imagine they would be. There are clearly deep-seated problems with this process.

radu_floricica 5y ago

This is actually discouraging non-brigades from reporting. I reported obviously spam accounts and got the same feedback after a few weeks. Now I don't bother. Brigades on the other hand have the motivation to play the numbers.

mtnGoat 5y ago

I once made fun of Justin Bieber(said he acts like a baby) on IG, and got a warning. Some guy threatened to Hunt me and my family, kill us and do bad things to our bodies and IG said it didn’t violate any rules, when I reported it. My account can now not even post the word “chump” without warnings. Talk about backwards. It’s very safe to say there is no adult in the room at FB/IG when it comes to rule enforcement. I simply cannot wait until they get the whip from some governments.

gordon_freeman 5y ago
I don't want to do victim blaming or shaming here but why would you use any fb product knowing well about their awful business practices like these?
- CiPHPerCoder 5y ago
  I maintain an account only so nobody can impersonate me to others.
  - cratermoon 5y ago
    Ditto. Squatting my own identity.
- hirako2000 5y ago
  Because of its network effect. Removing facebook, in a way is removing members of our connection circles.
  - brodouevencode 5y ago
    > removing members of our connection circles Does it really? Whatever happened to just a friendly weekly email?
    - EamonnMR 5y ago
      It got replaced by social media

smcl 5y ago

Yeah I gave up reporting. I’ve reported some people being extremely racist in comments, no action in either case. It’s either moderated by racist people, some poor AI or “rand()%2==0”

gjs278 5y ago
why does it bother you so much

tonfreed 5y ago

Same, I've reported a ton of death threats only to be told they're not in violation. Only for my mum to cop an autoban for calling someone a spring chicken. Their moderation is a complete joke.

josefresco 5y ago

My wife (an American) also got flagged for saying "Americans are selfish". She then made a post about our RV (camper) asking about sewer "hook ups" at a campground and was flagged for posting what looked like a sex ad. We (the kids and I) now lovingly call her "hate speech Mom".

adolph 5y ago
> asking about sewer "hook ups" at a campground No lie, that is dirty talk.
bambax 5y ago
> We (the kids and I) now lovingly call her "hate speech Mom". Hook-up mom would be better.
shadowgovt 5y ago
Especially after Jan 6, there are a couple of things you can say in an ordinary spirited political debate that will cop you a ban on FB. One is several flavors of "Americans are X," another is variants on "Kill the filibuster" (which I assume is pattern-matching to '[violence-word] the [congress-word], which they probably up-sampled in the threat modeling for, uh, obvious reasons).
- josefresco 5y ago
  The worse part is that in her eagerness to close the "prompt" on her phone she "agreed" she had posted this content (instead of appeal), which probably put some sort of permanent mark on her record. One can only hope she gets kicked off for good one of these days!
  - IggleSniggle 5y ago
    wtf?? I haven't been on FB for about 10 years now and every now and then a comment like this comes along which makes me realize just how out of touch with the global bureaucracy I've become

KaiserPro 5y ago

simple: if you are important, then you get a moderator. If you are a pleb, its up to the AI. so unless that video has been fingerprinted, then it'll be approved. if the sentiment analysis AI says you were being abusive: ban. if you appeal (if you can) it might, perhaps 1/100,00 times be looked at by a human

himinlomax 5y ago

I got a 48h ban for calling the Japanese military "the japs" in the context of the Rape of Nanking. Wouldn't want to offend the group that raped and murdered millions now, would we? A friend got a 48h ban for calling herself a "rital," a term for an Italian immigrant in France that used to be derogatory a century ago.

tjpnz 5y ago

This is also the same company that allowed a terrorist to livestream a killing spree for 17 minutes despite it being reported over and over again. To add insult to injury they allowed copies of the same footage to proliferate across their platform for weeks. Facebook spend a lot on PR talking up their AI capabilities and how it's being applied towards moderation. Would be nice if it actually worked.

atkailash 5y ago

I was in Facebook jail for “bullying” someone when I took his exact phrasing, changed relevant details and applied it to him. I reported 9 comments misgendering a trans person and none of them were considered against community standards, supposedly. It’s ridiculous