14 ms·
Citizens need to enforce and assert their rights there before it's too late.
by Ms-J 5y ago
Citizens need to enforce and assert their rights there before it's too late.
- s5300 5y agoDid you never learn that the definition of a government includes having a monopoly on violence? Australia would essentially become a failed state with your suggestion, and I don't exactly think the government is just going to let that happen.
- bpodgursky 5y agoIf governments all had a permanent monopoly on violence we would all be forever living under the eternal dynasty of God-Emperor Hammurabi CCCXXIVI in the all-kingdom stretching from the Euphrates to all the sun has ever touched. Sometimes you have to break the rules to make long-term positive changes.
- anfilt 5y agoArmed rebellion is not always needed to make changes. However just letting the state do what it wants without push back certainly is not going to change things.
- rajamaka 5y agoIt's also currently illegal to organise protests or leave the country.
- jimmaswell 5y agoThe first being obvious enough in its abhorrence, and the second being a violation of human rights as defined by the UN. Unfortunately it seems like a large amount of Australians are eager for even more of this authoritarianism. By the time they learn their lesson it will be too late.
- pclmulqdq 5y agoAustralia is already a failed state. That happened the second they decided to imprison their populace and started talking about the "New world order." The state has failed its people, and the only thing left is for it to crumble.
- mandelbrotwurst 5y agoWow, who was it in their government who was discussing a NWO? Do you have any link / source / context?
- Covzire 5y agohttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/australia-new-world-order-conspiracies-b1917082.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/austral...
- pclmulqdq 5y agoThe chief medical officer of New South Wales said it during a press conference recently
- jwond 5y agoIt was the chief health officer of New South Wales, Dr. Kerry Chant. Dr. Chant said: “We will be looking at what contact tracing looks like in the New World Order…yes it will be pubs and clubs and other things if we have a positive case there.” https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/new-world-order-australia-covid-v54072845 https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/new-world-order-austra...
- mandelbrotwurst 5y agoOof, thanks.
- hilbert42 5y agoThere is nothing wrong with contact tracing during a pandemic. It's been used by many countries in the past including the US. Let's go back a long way to 1854 during the cholera epidemic in London when Dr John Snow found that the Broad Street pump was its cause and he located it by contact tracing those who contacted cholera and worked backwards to the source. This case is famous for the very fact it shows that contact tracing and isolating saves lives (please ensure that you look at the map he used to trace the pump): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1854_Broad_Street_cholera_outbreak https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1854_Broad_Street_cholera_ou... I can attest to this, contact tracing put a quick end to the COVID outbreak near where I live and I'm very thankful for the work those tracers did under very arduous circumstances. In principle, contact tracing during a pandemic has nothing to do with the general increase in surveillance that's gripping the planet at the moment - it is an entirely separate matter. The fact that we have sleezebag governments prepared to subvert a decent legitimate process is - again - a separate and serious problem for democracy.
- throwawayfear 5y agoAustralia is already on its way to being a failed state by now. Police and military patrol the streets to enforce rules, “papers please” tyranny is required to live, and soon they’ll demand complete surveillance and control in your own house. Wake up before it is too late. https://theconversation.com/vaccine-passports-are-coming-to-australia-how-will-they-work-and-what-will-you-need-them-for-167531 https://theconversation.com/vaccine-passports-are-coming-to-... “NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian yesterday announced freedoms for fully vaccinated people once 70% of the state’s eligible population are double dosed. These include being able to go to hospitality venues, hairdressers and gyms, and have five people to your home.” They are even now trying to limit how many people you can have over in your own home. It is a failed state. Wake up before you are enslaved.
- 6nf 5y agoNo vaccine? You're never getting a haircut again. Or buying clothes in a store. Or meeting friends outside or going to a restaurant. Australia is done, I'm making plans to leave. And judging by the downvotes people think this stuff is acceptable?
- hug 5y agoI would rather anti-vaxers leave the country than continue to hang around, yes. Do I think that it will be acceptable if lockdowns continue in Australia past the point at which the various state governments have agreed they will stop (i.e.: the 70% and 80% population vaccinated marks)? No. Do I think the reason why those targets are harder to meet than necessary is because of unscientific fearmongering idiots refusing to get the vaccine? Yes. In a way, I blame this more on you than on the government.
- drcross 5y agoIf you think you need a vaccine for a disease with a median age of death that's 84 you've badly failed at basic risk analysis and you've been massaged by the machine.
- lwansbrough 5y agoWhat rights? Australia does not have a bill of rights. It has a very limited number of fundamental rights outlined in the Constitution but other than that you seem to be pretty much screwed, which explains why these draconian measures always seem to land in Australia first.
- wyager 5y agoPresumably the GP is referring to a conception of rights that exist independently of a piece of paper declaring their existence.
- skeletonjelly 5y agoWell how do you enforce a concept? One move would be to introduce a bill of rights
- throwawaylinux 5y agoRights exist by what people demand and exercise and do. A "bill of rights" is a piece of paper. A piece of paper which is ruled upon by a court that was granted its power by the very same collection of papers. For example, the right to keep and bear arms (obviously not for hunting but for war and security) has been infringed upon many times, but constitutional courts have decided that actually despite the bill of rights, some infringement is allowed. (EDIT: And this doesn't even address the problem of governments creating unconstitutional laws or executing unconstitutional actions which de facto strip your rights for some possibly significant time until it can be overturned by a court, but without much redress or punishment or deterrent) In the end the people are the ultimate arbiters and deciders of what rights they are willing to give up and what powers they are willing to be governed under. This plays out the same way in USA and Australia and Afghanistan and Libya.
- dd444fgdfg 5y agoI for one agree with you. I've never understood why America puts of with basically being a police state, with the level of police brutality and incarceration that they have. And here in aussieland, we don't have that, but we do nothing to protect our liberties.
- gobookdev 5y agoWe just had hundreds of thousands of people go to the beach yesterday ignoring lockdown orders, I was worried about my country having read things like Gulag Archipelago, but the general population have shown where their line is. Still we're now a police state and the general population doesn't seem to give a shit about that.
- throwawayfear 5y agoRally your people and take it to the politicians’ offices until they throw out these policies entirely. Wear masks and go in big numbers.
- the_third_wave 5y agoBetter throw out the politicians together with the policies. Now that they've shown their true colours it would be foolhardy to expect them to restrain their authoritarian instincts come the next emergency - and if there is one thing easily come by these days it seems to be emergencies. Kick 'm out, elect a new batch and keep their feet to the fire.
- HKH2 5y agoBoth major parties are authoritarian. Australia has a good electoral system but people have to stop believing in major parties, or that it doesn't matter, and vote in droves for independents and minor parties (who, if unelected, give their votes to the party they prefer).
- gobookdev 5y agoDude that organised the last protest got 8 months prison. 75% of the population agrees with some of the totalitarian laws. Still a great country, but I'm looking at other places to live, Senior Engineer so it won't be hard to get sponsorship. Thinking about USA where people really understand the importance of their constitution, and the tech sector is the strongest in the world.
- 5y ago
- threeseed 5y agoYou are not being forced to do this. You can instead spend 2 weeks locked up in a hotel at your expense.
- throwawayfear 5y agoWhat kind of insanity have we collectively tolerated that “you can pay to be locked up in a ‘hotel’ tor two weeks” is seen as some kind of evidence that there is no compulsion? That’s like saying people aren’t forced to vaccinate since you don’t “need” to work at that particular job and you don’t “need” to exercise in a gym or watch a movie in a theater. Everything in history shows the slope is slippery. They will pass this on to everyone. It’s a blatant power grab. They want to spy on you and track you. They don’t care about your health.
- shkkmo 5y agoThe kind of insanity that has been the law for well over a year. Getting outraged at an effort to make that policy less draconian is pretty silly.
- throwawayfear 5y agoIt can be a law for ten years. Doesn't make it less of a shitty law. And I think the outrage is useful. It will mobilize people until it boils over into action, if enough people do it when it actually counts. This is when it actually counts. Everyone has spent all their Outrage Points on useless shit some actor or celebrity said about something no one will care about on their deathbed, but so few are saying anything about this totalitarian nightmare.
- shkkmo 5y agoI was not defending the law. But the App that is the subject of the article serves to reduce the severity of that law and thus reduces government overreach. To be upset about the App, rather than the original quarantine law, is to be focusing attention in the wrong place.
- teclordphrack2 5y agoDid you even read the article?