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Don't forget that he fought in the French civil war on the loosing side. History does not like loosers. OTOH, they do celebrate Lafayette in Vendée where Lafay

Don't forget that he fought in the French civil war on the loosing side. History does not like loosers. OTOH, they do celebrate Lafayette in Vendée where Lafayette is considered a regional hero. The famous theme park Puy du Fou has one of its attractions dedicated to Lafayette.

ptidhomme 5y ago
That's because the Puy du Fou has a different take on French history than most mainstream views in France. Which I find refreshing. As a side note, I must say the park is a genuine wonder in itself, and I highly recommend it to anyone if you can go there.
- bussiere 5y ago
  It's not a differente take it's a wrong take on french hisory : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puy_du_Fou#Une_vision_orient%C3%A9e_de_l'histoire_de_la_Vend%C3%A9e https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puy_du_Fou#Une_vision_orient%C... And a wrong take that try to push a political agenda. It's a fun park but don't take history lesson history here are more that political oriented legends. They are like history channel ...
  - sam_lowry_ 5y ago
    The mere fact that French Revolution can be told from the point of view of loosers is a revelation to many French. The value of Puy du Fou is in the teaching of pluralism while being hightly entertaing in the process.
    - bussiere 5y ago
      It's not pluralism when it's false facts. There are science and facts. You can't teach false facts to people.
      - sam_lowry_ 5y ago
        The Wikipedia section you referenced above is not about facts, it's a collection of vague complaints. Note that I never said that Puy do Fou presents the true facts. But the attacks of French historians on Puy du Fou I saw so far are not based on facts at all.
      - tasogare 5y ago
        > You can't teach false facts to people. Then why are history books filled with false facts? And that's in the case the government didn't decided to suppress history classes altogether, as it might make people think (I'm referencing the deletion of history classes in scientific high shool section). Paille et poutre...
    - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
      > The mere fact that French Revolution can be told from the point of view of losers is a revelation to many French. The French Revolution is always told from the point of view of losers. Most of its most prominent actors ended losing at some point and the whole thing ends with an epuration followed by a military coup. The myth surrounding the Revolution has little to do with who won or lost. Like most of what the French view as their history, it is a construction dating from the rise of nationalism at the end of the 19th century.
      - cm2187 5y ago
        Actually probably more than nationalism, marxism theorised the french revolution as one of the key step of the march to socialism (the bourgeois overthrowing the feudal system, that was meant to be followed by the workers overthrowing the bourgeois system). I suspect this had more influence than nationalism on the school history books of the last 50 years.
  - ptidhomme 5y ago
    I'm not sure you can say there is a "right" or a "wrong" take on history. Rather, different focus and interpretation.
    - bussiere 5y ago
      There are true facts and false facts. Even right wing historians find the orientation of the puy du fou wrong. Ainsi, comme le soulignent Jean-Clément Martin, historien spécialiste de la Révolution française, de la Contre-révolution et de la guerre de Vendée, et Valérie Sottocasa, maître de conférences en histoire moderne à l'université Toulouse-Jean-Jaurès, le spectacle, « d'emblée militant et symbolique »12 exalte « le mythe d'un âge d'or durant lequel nobles et gens du peuple étaient soudés par un même idéal communautaire »11 mais « qui a servi jusqu'à nos jours à consolider une culture politique dont témoignent les commémorations du Puy du Fou, sans doute les plus spectaculaires du genre11 ». La mobilisation des populations locales dans le cadre d'« une association défendant les valeurs de la famille et de la tradition » s'inscrit dans ce cadre : il s'agit de « populariser une idée de l'histoire de France teintée de Contre-Révolution »13, comme le montrent en outre dans les années 1980 et 1990 les thématiques des colloques qui s'y déroulent ou l'utilisation de la venue d'Alexandre Soljenitsyne. Jean-Clément Martin et Charles Suaud font remarquer en outre que le spectacle de la Cinéscénie dépeint une société paysanne vendéenne faussement uniforme « privée de ses contradictions internes, soumise aux aléas des saisons et des traumatismes extérieurs », occultant à la fois les affrontements ayant eu lieu en Vendée entre catholiques et protestants pendant les guerres de religion et les rapports de domination économique et sociale13.
      - sam_lowry_ 5y ago
        Between the mumbling of Jean-Clément Martin and the visual feast presented by Puy du Fou, I prefer the later. No wonder Jean-Clément Martin*s* of the world are angry.
        bussiere 5y ago
        If a made a super show where elvis and the big foot came to help the french revolution with some Grey Extra terrestrial it doesn't make true facts on history.
  - fredros 5y ago
    At French school we a were taught wrong takes when it comes to history (less so, of course) It’s mainly the history from a « républicain » point of view. Also served with a blatant pro European federalism take. Nothing wrong per se, but we should have a critical view on what we were fed with.
- sam_lowry_ 5y ago
  Indeed. Puy du Fou is a refresher from the usual Asterix/Efteling/Disney attractions parks. One thing I noted though is that one has to know French history and French culture to fully appreciate. The scene about the travel of Laperouse is told by the captain of the 2nd ship. Figures around the pond speak in the voice of Depardieu. The whole Lafayette story is a major blow to the official teaching of the French Revolution, you have to know the extent at which the same teaching of history is imposed on everyone to fully appreciate the courage of the park administration.
flixic 5y ago
Tiny tip: loose is opposite of tight, to lose is opposite of to win.
- Youden 5y ago
  Loose is also a verb meaning to release something or let it loose.
lm28469 5y ago
> in Vendée where Lafayette is considered a regional hero > famous theme park Puy du Fou For people unfamiliar with this: Puy du Fou was created by a nationalistic politician born in the region. This politician, Philippe de Villiers, is getting closer and closer to the french far right, he's anti islam, anti europe, anti migrants, and go as far as to say that the French government is on its way to give away part of its territory for it to be ruled under sharia. I have no experience with the park but from the articles I found I wouldn't be surprised if every "historical" events presented there are heavily interpreted/romanticised
- joachim4 5y ago
  They are heavily politicized in their presentation of France history (for example one of the spectacle is about the christians persecutions in Rome, where the christians are the good guide, and the romans are the bad guys). Another famous recent event is that they bought one of Joan of Arc ring, but it was mainly a nationalist move more than something important to preserve (Joan of Arc is from the east / north part of France) (for more infos: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneaux_de_Jeanne_d%27Arc https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneaux_de_Jeanne_d%27Arc). Overall, the parc is an entertainment place as much as a political tool, but not a lot of people are aware of it, and most of them are eating their propagande like the true story of France (due to lack of education on history mainly).
  - zchrykng 5y ago
    > (for example one of the spectacle is about the christians persecutions in Rome, where the christians are the good guide, and the romans are the bad guys). This a political or controversial view? News to me.
  - OneEyedRobot 5y ago
    >(for example one of the spectacle is about the christians persecutions in Rome, where the christians are the good guide, and the romans are the bad guys). A not bad alternative view on the subject. The Darkening Age: The Christian Destruction of the Classical World Catherine Nixey
- 5y ago
jokoon 5y ago
> History does not like loosers. Historians don't care. Governments and politicians do.
- sam_lowry_ 5y ago
  Historians feed off governments. This is especially true in France.
  - jokoon 5y ago
    any source, example, article about this?

ptidhomme 5y ago

That's because the Puy du Fou has a different take on French history than most mainstream views in France. Which I find refreshing. As a side note, I must say the park is a genuine wonder in itself, and I highly recommend it to anyone if you can go there.

bussiere 5y ago
It's not a differente take it's a wrong take on french hisory : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puy_du_Fou#Une_vision_orient%C3%A9e_de_l'histoire_de_la_Vend%C3%A9e https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puy_du_Fou#Une_vision_orient%C... And a wrong take that try to push a political agenda. It's a fun park but don't take history lesson history here are more that political oriented legends. They are like history channel ...
- sam_lowry_ 5y ago
  The mere fact that French Revolution can be told from the point of view of loosers is a revelation to many French. The value of Puy du Fou is in the teaching of pluralism while being hightly entertaing in the process.
  - bussiere 5y ago
    It's not pluralism when it's false facts. There are science and facts. You can't teach false facts to people.
    - sam_lowry_ 5y ago
      The Wikipedia section you referenced above is not about facts, it's a collection of vague complaints. Note that I never said that Puy do Fou presents the true facts. But the attacks of French historians on Puy du Fou I saw so far are not based on facts at all.
    - tasogare 5y ago
      > You can't teach false facts to people. Then why are history books filled with false facts? And that's in the case the government didn't decided to suppress history classes altogether, as it might make people think (I'm referencing the deletion of history classes in scientific high shool section). Paille et poutre...
  - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
    > The mere fact that French Revolution can be told from the point of view of losers is a revelation to many French. The French Revolution is always told from the point of view of losers. Most of its most prominent actors ended losing at some point and the whole thing ends with an epuration followed by a military coup. The myth surrounding the Revolution has little to do with who won or lost. Like most of what the French view as their history, it is a construction dating from the rise of nationalism at the end of the 19th century.
    - cm2187 5y ago
      Actually probably more than nationalism, marxism theorised the french revolution as one of the key step of the march to socialism (the bourgeois overthrowing the feudal system, that was meant to be followed by the workers overthrowing the bourgeois system). I suspect this had more influence than nationalism on the school history books of the last 50 years.
- ptidhomme 5y ago
  I'm not sure you can say there is a "right" or a "wrong" take on history. Rather, different focus and interpretation.
  - bussiere 5y ago
    There are true facts and false facts. Even right wing historians find the orientation of the puy du fou wrong. Ainsi, comme le soulignent Jean-Clément Martin, historien spécialiste de la Révolution française, de la Contre-révolution et de la guerre de Vendée, et Valérie Sottocasa, maître de conférences en histoire moderne à l'université Toulouse-Jean-Jaurès, le spectacle, « d'emblée militant et symbolique »12 exalte « le mythe d'un âge d'or durant lequel nobles et gens du peuple étaient soudés par un même idéal communautaire »11 mais « qui a servi jusqu'à nos jours à consolider une culture politique dont témoignent les commémorations du Puy du Fou, sans doute les plus spectaculaires du genre11 ». La mobilisation des populations locales dans le cadre d'« une association défendant les valeurs de la famille et de la tradition » s'inscrit dans ce cadre : il s'agit de « populariser une idée de l'histoire de France teintée de Contre-Révolution »13, comme le montrent en outre dans les années 1980 et 1990 les thématiques des colloques qui s'y déroulent ou l'utilisation de la venue d'Alexandre Soljenitsyne. Jean-Clément Martin et Charles Suaud font remarquer en outre que le spectacle de la Cinéscénie dépeint une société paysanne vendéenne faussement uniforme « privée de ses contradictions internes, soumise aux aléas des saisons et des traumatismes extérieurs », occultant à la fois les affrontements ayant eu lieu en Vendée entre catholiques et protestants pendant les guerres de religion et les rapports de domination économique et sociale13.
    - sam_lowry_ 5y ago
      Between the mumbling of Jean-Clément Martin and the visual feast presented by Puy du Fou, I prefer the later. No wonder Jean-Clément Martin*s* of the world are angry.
      - bussiere 5y ago
        If a made a super show where elvis and the big foot came to help the french revolution with some Grey Extra terrestrial it doesn't make true facts on history.
- fredros 5y ago
  At French school we a were taught wrong takes when it comes to history (less so, of course) It’s mainly the history from a « républicain » point of view. Also served with a blatant pro European federalism take. Nothing wrong per se, but we should have a critical view on what we were fed with.
sam_lowry_ 5y ago
Indeed. Puy du Fou is a refresher from the usual Asterix/Efteling/Disney attractions parks. One thing I noted though is that one has to know French history and French culture to fully appreciate. The scene about the travel of Laperouse is told by the captain of the 2nd ship. Figures around the pond speak in the voice of Depardieu. The whole Lafayette story is a major blow to the official teaching of the French Revolution, you have to know the extent at which the same teaching of history is imposed on everyone to fully appreciate the courage of the park administration.

flixic 5y ago

Tiny tip: loose is opposite of tight, to lose is opposite of to win.

Youden 5y ago
Loose is also a verb meaning to release something or let it loose.

lm28469 5y ago

> in Vendée where Lafayette is considered a regional hero > famous theme park Puy du Fou For people unfamiliar with this: Puy du Fou was created by a nationalistic politician born in the region. This politician, Philippe de Villiers, is getting closer and closer to the french far right, he's anti islam, anti europe, anti migrants, and go as far as to say that the French government is on its way to give away part of its territory for it to be ruled under sharia. I have no experience with the park but from the articles I found I wouldn't be surprised if every "historical" events presented there are heavily interpreted/romanticised

joachim4 5y ago
They are heavily politicized in their presentation of France history (for example one of the spectacle is about the christians persecutions in Rome, where the christians are the good guide, and the romans are the bad guys). Another famous recent event is that they bought one of Joan of Arc ring, but it was mainly a nationalist move more than something important to preserve (Joan of Arc is from the east / north part of France) (for more infos: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneaux_de_Jeanne_d%27Arc https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneaux_de_Jeanne_d%27Arc). Overall, the parc is an entertainment place as much as a political tool, but not a lot of people are aware of it, and most of them are eating their propagande like the true story of France (due to lack of education on history mainly).
- zchrykng 5y ago
  > (for example one of the spectacle is about the christians persecutions in Rome, where the christians are the good guide, and the romans are the bad guys). This a political or controversial view? News to me.
- OneEyedRobot 5y ago
  >(for example one of the spectacle is about the christians persecutions in Rome, where the christians are the good guide, and the romans are the bad guys). A not bad alternative view on the subject. The Darkening Age: The Christian Destruction of the Classical World Catherine Nixey
5y ago

jokoon 5y ago

> History does not like loosers. Historians don't care. Governments and politicians do.

sam_lowry_ 5y ago
Historians feed off governments. This is especially true in France.
- jokoon 5y ago
  any source, example, article about this?