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Apple fires engineering manager for allegedly leaking information
- pstuart 5y agoIf the only information she's leaking is that she's in a hostile workplace it seems like Apple is in the wrong here.
- vnkatesh 5y agoRelated HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28241917 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28241917
- badRNG 5y agoJesus Christ that thread is a mess... > Is this really a common thing people do? Take nude photos and leave them in the phone? > It amazes me that people take photos of themselves naked. They will be leaked eventually. I mean, I expected victim-blaming here on this site, but to the degree to feign surprise that people use the devices they own and control to live lives that include a sexual dimension is a new level of ridiculousness.
- lliamander 5y agoMost of the normal, non-techie folks I have talked to about this find the idea of taking nudes as scandalous and wouldn't take the risk. I don't have a strong moral objection to using personal computing devices in that manner, but I think many people are nervous about the risks.
- zarzavat 5y agoHow old are your friends? For younger generations it would be weird not to have nudes on your phone.
- lliamander 5y agoEarly thirties on average. I'm young enough that sending nudes on phones was a thing (if not necessarily a big thing) in high school. The thing is, if someone has nudes of you on their phone, there's a non-zero chance those nudes will end up on the Internet. Maybe you like your odds, but plenty of people dont.
- lallysingh 5y agoYet they wouldn't be surprised that the devices are used to download nudes of others! There's a consumer-only angle here that's interesting.
- badRNG 5y ago>Most of the normal, non-techie folks I have talked to about this find the idea of taking nudes as scandalous and wouldn't take the risk. Damn near every person I've ever met in my age group who has used a smartphone or computer has used it for every aspect of their personal lives to include the sexual parts of their lives. There is an expectation of privacy that average folks have on their devices. It's where they search for their most sensitive medical information, search for relationship advice, watch porn, and explore their curiosities without censorship. I'm not sure where you are finding these puritan self-censoring non-techies who treat their devices as open books, but I've certainly never met them.
- refurb 5y agoThis is a company phone.
- emptyparadise 5y agoThe company also heavily pushes you towards using that corporate phone.
- SV_BubbleTime 5y agoThat’s another way to write can not prevent you from having a personal phone and using that one for intimate things.
- dgellow 5y agoDo we have proofs that’s the case? (I.e: that Apple pushes to use same account for work and private life) That has been repeated multiple times but I haven’t seen something that could confirm it.
- refurb 5y agoHuh? It’s a company phone. If they push you to use it, that’s why they have it to you. If you have naked pictures of yourself on your corporate phone that’s 100% your fault.
- 5y ago
- knaik94 5y agoMost of the normal, non-techie folks I know use non end to end encrypted chats to send nudes. I had to convince them whatsapp was better than snapchat. Maybe people have different feelings based on if they grew up with technology.
- makeitdouble 5y agoTo note, nudes don't need to be sexual. Someone dieting and taking naked photos every day would be a normal thing to do, for instance. There must thousands of other reasons someone could take nude photos of themselves on devices they assume only them has access to.
- onedognight 5y agoShe did not own or control this device. According to article it was a work phone.
- omgwtfbyobbq 5y agoI'm pretty sure she controlled it.
- KingOfCoders 5y agoAs soon as Apple enables scanning, no one controls their iPhone anymore.
- geofft 5y agoThe whole context here is that Apple strongly discourages its employees from having a separate work and personal phone.
- emma-w 5y agoWait what? Really? Why?
- blondin 5y agono that's not true. someone who said they were working for apple contradicted that fact in the other thread. i personally find the claims weird and have never seen it anywhere. my experience is that some employees choose to use company devices as personal devices. or personal accounts as company accounts, etc. again, the way things are today, i don't expect many apple employees to come forward and tell us the way things are.
- smegger001 5y agoYou know, If my job tried to actively discourage me from having a two separate phones while retaining the right to search a work phone. I would take that as a warning to absolutely keep two devices and not let them touch my personal device.
- refurb 5y agoOn a company phone? You’d have to be nuts to do that.
- chadcmulligan 5y agoIndeed, I discussed this with a couple of people and their reaction was the same.
- _3u10 5y agoWait til they find out that people take these photos with intention to send them to those they are fond of.
- _3u10 5y agoIt hasn’t been established that she’s a victim of anything. Sounds more like accuser blaming.
- josefx 5y ago> but to the degree to feign surprise that people use the devices they own and control to live lives that include a sexual dimension is a new level of ridiculousness. The company I work for made it outright clear that while I could unlock my privately owned phone for business access, they would take complete control of it and install monitoring software in order to protect company data. I would have lost any pretense of privacy if I signed up to that without getting myself a second, non-business, phone. I didn't sign up since it just would have reduced my free time even more, but I know plenty of people with separate business and private phones. The only surprising thing would be if apple wasn't just as upfront about the complete lack of privacy involved with a company phone.
- Grustaf 5y agoWould you store nude photos of yourself on your company laptop?
- iD0it4thedrUgz 5y agoThis is incorrect. The photos ended up on the phone because she synced her personal iCloud.
- khazhoux 5y agoIn what world is it a good idea to take nude selfies on the same device that you use to take pictures of the whiteboard after technical meetings? A device that will be full of internal apps (to connect to Apple VPN, to see shuttle schedules, internal bug tracker, daily menus) not to mention the device that contains all your work emails, all your work contacts, and all your work events. Pro-tip: don't take a picture of your tickly parts on a device that is one mis-click away from sharing to your entire team. And don't freak out when you have to turn over your phone, untouched, if it's required for legal retention. In fact, retention policy is part of the mandatory training -- she knew what might happen with that device, but just ignored it.
- afro88 5y agoBetter thread (your thread was flagged): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28241753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28241753
- swiley 5y agoFuckers.
- JohnJamesRambo 5y agoAny info on what Superfund site Apple is built on?
- khuey 5y agoProbably this one https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0901325 https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0...
- JohnJamesRambo 5y agohttps://disasterarea.home.blog/2019/07/12/apple-headquarters-on-the-intersil-dtkm-sl720641214-epa-superfund-site-daycare-banned/ https://disasterarea.home.blog/2019/07/12/apple-headquarters... Interesting. Trichloroethene.
- khuey 5y agoTCE contamination of former semiconductor manufacturing sites in Silicon Valley is extremely common.
- diskzero 5y agoIt is no secret. The Infinite Loop campus and the new campus are both on superfund sites. There are signs posted in the lobby ways exiting to the parking lots outside and to the inner campus. I think people are so numbed by seeing Prop 65 warnings on everything, the signs may not even register. We were told the IL campus was a superfund site during the first day of orientation. I have no idea if this is the case for the new campus. The whole area has numerous superfund sites, all which have buildings constructed on them.
- azinman2 5y agoI spoke to their environmental manager as I was concerned. They've done a lot for Apple Park, don't remember all the details, but it's fair to say they've spent a ton of money on it.
- 5y ago
- userbinator 5y agoApple has had a notoriously secretive, paternalising, and "you will do what we say" attitude towards its users for a long time. It should be no surprise that the internal culture is not much different.
- jaimex2 5y agoApple is lucky this happened in the US and not the EU.
- bestcoder69 5y agoWellll we don’t have many protections but we do have the NLRA. https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/concerted-activity https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/em... Not sure if she stepped outside the bounds of concerted activity though.
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoThis person was Tweeting internal e-mails from Apple, complete with the footnote explaining that they were confidential and not to be shared outside of the company. Example here: https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1435421599826518025/photo/1 https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1435421599826518025/... There were headlines and outrage about her being placed on administrative leave by Apple recently. Reading the finer details, it turns out she requested to be placed on leave (From the article: "She was placed on administrative leave in early August while Apple investigated some of these concerns — a placement she says she requested as a last resort.") She has a dedicated form on her website for press to fill out to request an interview with her. ( https://www.ashleygjovik.com/press.html https://www.ashleygjovik.com/press.html ) She maintains a website called iWhistleblower ( https://www.iwhistleblower.org/ https://www.iwhistleblower.org/ ) with details about past cases involving Apple and links encouraging people to report Apple information to different regulatory bodies. Her personal website leads with "Apple Labor Advocacy" as well as "Public Health Advocacy" where she describes how she thinks there might be a toxic waste container somewhere on the property of her old 3rd-floor apartment. She believes it was causing her blood pressure and heart rate to change, according to monitors that she wore. She published photos of herself wearing a blood pressure monitoring cuff and her story here: https://sfbayview.com/2021/03/i-thought-i-was-dying-my-apartment-was-built-on-toxic-waste/ https://sfbayview.com/2021/03/i-thought-i-was-dying-my-apart... While I fully agree that all allegations should be given due process and properly investigated, I get nervous when someone is visibly invested in building a personal brand on social media around being a victim. The story about the toxic waste apartment, the story about Apple's lawyers needing her work phone for an investigation, and the story about her alleged harassment at Apple all happened within the past 6 months. Her entire social media presence appears to be built around capitalizing on these stories.
- atombender 5y agoRegardless of whether these complaints have merit or not, I never understood people who crap on their employer in public using social media. It's one thing to have a complaint (or several) you bring up internally through the right channels, it's something else entirely to run a continuous campaign of shaming a company that you currently work for. How anyone can go to work at a company every day while also actively working against it is beyond me — not to mention how her relationships with her colleagues are impacted by her tweeting. She calls herself a whistleblower, but was also tweeting about issues that were still under internal investigation at the time, and which was confidential. That's absolutely the wrong way to go about things.
- Trias11 5y agoI do envision Ashley lawyers requesting the data on: - how many Apple employees looked at Ashley's boobs in Apple's permanent evidence locker - what the reason for each occurence - what their names and titles
- onionisafruit 5y agoI suspect the response will be: - 0 - N/A - N/A
- kungfufrog 5y agoI had never heard the phrase, "open the kimono", before, as referenced here in a summary of events leading to her firing: https://www.ashleygjovik.com/ashleys-apple-story.html https://www.ashleygjovik.com/ashleys-apple-story.html I find it hard to see the implicit sexism in this. Truth be told, if I heard the phrase around the workplace and someone took issue with it I'd probably be internally rolling my eyes. Am I different from the average person? Do other people have an automatic, internal and visceral reaction to such locutions that I'm lacking?
- seneca 5y agoNo, you're not different. There is a type of person who wants to find offense, and they will find offense with a phrase like this. Most people are not that way.
- micromacrofoot 5y agoit's not visceral but it's kind of creepy and I'd probably say something like "that's kind of a weird phrase to use" if someone I work with said it... if they keep doing it despite complaints then it starts to feel petty and disrespectful that said, it's nothing compared to how often I've heard male colleagues talking about their balls... just please don't ever talk about your balls at work
- unityByFreedom 5y ago> I find it hard to see the implicit sexism in this. The investopedia page is rather coy, > There are conflicting etymologies for this phrase, but the one closest to its current business connotation is the idea of Japanese people loosening their kimonos to relax at home, much like loosening a tie. [1] Women in Japan haven't exactly enjoyed equal status in the western sense and there is a boat load of subjugation that probably went into coming up with this phrase. The worst example is probably the use of "comfort women" [2] by the Japanese army in WW II. These women were enslaved for sex. So of course a woman would find this offensive, particularly when directed at her, since if you know any history it is easy to imagine this phrase originating from "open your kimono and have sex with me." I can also imagine oblivious men in tech repeating it if they didn't "get it" at first because they had heard other men use the phrase without realizing its origin. However you do deserve to be called out if you continue using it while feigning ignorance. Your response should simply be, "oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize the implications of this phrase. I'll stop using it." And if you can't do that then HR should get involved. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/open-kimono.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/open-kimono.asp [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women
- reactspa 5y agoI google-image searched her name. This tweet (and the one below it) came up: https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1422380335703101443 https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1422380335703101443 This is one of those prickly things where about half the population takes one side and the other half takes the other side. I, personally, would greatly appreciate my boss giving me advice on how to improve the tone of my delivery during presentations. I wouldn't call it tone-policing. I wouldn't complain to HR about it. And I certainly wouldn't put it on Twitter for the world to see. Bananas. ----------- Update: I just saw the piece on her website where she tweets "Here's me catching my #Apple officemate randomly looking at rifle specs". The tweet: https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1426572384736202758 https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1426572384736202758 (Astonishingly, she thinks it's okay to take a creep-shot of a colleague's computer screen and post it on Twitter.) Ashley "caught" her officemate doing something naughty, y'all. She's a professional snitch.
- markdown 5y ago"I didn't hear you going up an octave at the end of your statements" Aussie women are going to have trouble at Apple.
- lkois 5y agoAs an Aussie male, I agree?
- delsarto 5y agoNIDA (Australia's, and one of the world's best acting schools) actually run a course "Influential Women" [1] that focuses on vocal presence for women in corporate environments. [1] https://www.corporate.nida.edu.au/course/CWIB https://www.corporate.nida.edu.au/course/CWIB
- legostormtroopr 5y agoHer tone-policing tweet was shared at the time, and the resounding response was "that seems like reasonable feedback" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28066459 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28066459 Ashley (or ally's of hers) have been spamming updates to this slow motion career implosion on HN for the past few months, to try and paint Apple as some misogynistic dystopia and most of the posts have been flagged.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jjmorrison 5y agoHow dare Apple not work the way I want them to!
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jmole 5y agoThe note that Apple has carte blanche access to any of their employee's iCloud/iPhone data is not surprising to me, but should be a wakeup call for anyone working there. I know a guy who worked on their internal security team (investigating leaks, etc.) and the access they have into employee's digital lives is legitimately terrifying. We need better protections around "tech worker" user data & its ownership. Apple shouldn't be able to keep your personal iCloud data indefinitely just because you worked for them, but they can, and it's totally legal.
- dgellow 5y agoThey only have access to company devices, not your personal ones. If you use a different account than your personal one that shouldn’t be an issue. Though they should maybe make it clearer to employees that using personal accounts on work devices is not allowed.
- spacedcowboy 5y agoTbh, whenever I get another work device, there’s a document you have to acknowledge that says what can be done, what rights you have to data on it (basically none) and that the device and it’s content are Apples to do with as the company sees fit. If you want a personal phone, they’ll give you a significant discount to buy one, but the ones they give away are clearly meant for work use. Anyone who just clicks through an agreement like that without reading it at least once is a bloody fool.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- sneak 5y agoApple has carte blanche access to everyone’s iCloud data, as it’s stored on Apple servers and is mostly not end-to-end encrypted. They can read all of your iMessages, including attachments (out of your non-e2e iCloud Backup data), see all of your photos, et c. Not just for Apple employees, but for every user of iCloud: everyone’s employees.
- slinkyblack 5y ago
- johnwheeler 5y agoIf you hired a landscaper to mow your lawn and trim your hedges, or a pool service to clean your pool, and they started bitching about the fact that your house was too close to power lines, yet they insisted on keeping their job and pay, and you’d better do something about the power lines, would that be OK?
- geraldalewis 5y agoHoly smokes, there are some tone-deaf comments in here
- legerdemain 5y agoApple did the right thing to let this person go. Regardless of whether she's wrong or right, you don't let inmates run the asylum. Whenever you have an employee like this, they are nothing but trouble: insisting on getting everything "in writing," pushing for explicit answers to things they don't have a need-to-know, and otherwise creating negative energy around the office and acting like they run the place. Really, people like this are pure downside for an org. The old saw about rather not hiring ten qualified people than making one bad hire is 100% spot on with this one. Go Apple!
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago> The old saw about rather not hiring ten qualified people than making one bad hire is 100% spot on with this one. For everyone who bitches about tech recruiting, I wish they would at least give some empathy to this point of view. In Apple's case, they did make the mistake of this bad hire, and I bet the amount of time, effort, and negative publicity they've had to deal with, not to mention how this kind of toxic behavior just kills morale at organizations, is orders of magnitude worse than with an average employee. During the period I was a manager, I hated how the majority of my attention, work stress and time was devoted to handling a toxic individual, as opposed to all my other employees who were working hard to make the team better. And to be clear, my judgement of this person as an individual I would loath having to work with literally has nothing to do with others' descriptions of her, it solely has to do with her own words that she has published.
- luckylion 5y ago> hated how the majority of my attention, work stress and time was devoted to handling a toxic individual I've witnessed this in a startup I was peripherally involved with and know the founder quite well. The lead science guy had serious narcissism issues and he was seriously slowing them down by making every meeting about himself, constantly angling for more power and being unreasonable. When they finally fired him after an especially dumb maneuver, it was like the sun has come up after a dark night. Processes suddenly "just worked", juniors were taking over responsibilities and growing quickly into their roles, and the whole team got along much better. They made much better progress without him.
- jbverschoor 5y agoDiversity privileges
- p2t2p 5y agoSeems like her career is done
- tayistay 5y agoShe tweeted about making the dean's list (or similar) at her law school, so perhaps not.
- jc__denton 5y agoNo surprise. When she tweeted that they wanted an extremely short notice meeting about a “serious issue,” I knew she was done. This is how most of the big companies do their firings these days. Definitely not sympathizing with her, though. She brought this on herself, 100%. Constantly campaigning against your employer, in a very public forum to boot, is eventually going to draw their ire. She had a very generous title and salary for what looked like limited experience in the field and it seemed they were paying for her to obtain an unrelated J.D. Very generous, I’d say. If you keep biting the hand that feeds you, eventually the hand - and the food - gets withdrawn. A bit tangential, but I’ve never understood why people stay in jobs they can’t stand to the point where they self implode like this. I’m sure there were other teams, other roles at Apple in which she could have found herself.
- Ekaros 5y agoShe might have been looking for new job and proudly posting here social media presence. The people recruiting would have checked that and immediately went nope. You don't leave until you have next job joined up unless you really really hate it.
- iD0it4thedrUgz 5y agoThey have programs at Apple that allow you to work temporarily for 6 months in another department. Why wouldn't she have applied for one in the Legal department? Something weird here.
- __turbobrew__ 5y agoApple, you should hire me as a senior engineering PM. I will take Ashley's pay and cause no trouble. Look forward to seeing you on Monday.
- jackjeff 5y agoI don’t think the outcome is that surprising. Regardless of the merits of this person’s complains toward Apple, it’s hard to see an employer put up with this kind on incessant broadcast to the public place about sensitive matters. The adult way to handle this would be to complain internally, and it it fails go public once, and then move on to either discuss it in good faith with Apple or litigation. What would Apple have to win with her? Looking at the Twitter stream I feel like no matter what they do, it will never be enough. So firing her is the only possible avenue. At this stage the price of litigation is probably less than the reputational costs in the long run. The whole episode about her boobs is mesmerizing. I’m not saying the attitude of Apple sort of enticing their employees to use to personal accounts is not problematic. But even my horny self would think twice about sending a nude using my work phone. And if I did, I suppose I would come back to my senses eventually and delete those. She’s a grown up, work at a tech company, and has heard of fappening.
- DarkByte8 5y agohttps://www.ashleygjovik.com/ashleys-apple-story.html https://www.ashleygjovik.com/ashleys-apple-story.html July 2, 2021 In a heavy redacted email she was exposed to a substance and want to know "what chemicals & at what levels, for future cancer monitoring, etc." It made me curios what she was exposed too. July 20, 2021. Here I think she is accusing someone from apple of smuggling and "violating of the US embargo & sanctions against <redacted>" I assume is Iran by the length of the redacted text. July 28, 2021. She wants to transfer to ER and is refused 42 times. If she would have been transferred to ER she would have publish every complaint she investigated and used everything for here own lawsuit and her own cause. July 29, 2021 Long email were she is unhappy with the investigation and what the conclusion of each investigation to be sorted by area of the law to route them to different lawyers. In the list we get toxic tort but no details. I think any health issue that she will have in the future would result in a lawsuit against apple. Aug 6th, 2021 Long list of articles were she was mentioned and tweets. She talks about Apple not doing exposure testing but nothing else regarding the chemicals. August 14th 2021 Post a picture of a colleagues office with 5 bottles of alcohol and 3 bullet cases with the tip (the bullet) removed and 1 old musket ammunition. Not one of the items is live ammunition but she say it is live ammunition. She took a picture of a colleague looking at a rifle specs. At this point it would not amaze me if she requested the colleague to show here the gun specs and took the picture and used it against him. She complains that she is "constantly attacked" with Nerf guns and dodgeballs by here colleagues and mentions the rifle and bullets post trying to make a connection. She also says she has PTSD from past violence. She post a mail exchange were it is clear everyone is having fun even here but now she uses that to make a point of violence and danger. "I do feel like it's me against three 13 year old boys a lot of the time. I think I just need to out mischief them - hide or boobytrap their toys maybe" - mail from the exchange with here boss. Sorry I don't see the PTSD inducing horrors in here email. In this email she understands that everything is a joke and even participates in the joke by wanting to set boobytraps on there toys. If we would apply the same logic that she apply then she is a domestic terrorist trying to set up IEDs at Apple. She complains on twitter more about the nerf gun war but says nothing in the emails and even participates in the nerf gun war. We find out that she has a "2015 - Assault & Battery" folder that she shared with Apple last month and she is furious that the ER team don't want to investigate anything before 2017. For some reason she is challenging NorthropGrumman (3rd largest weapons manuf in the world) She complains about physical safety and when here boss give here some good advice about physical safety she uses that against him. Every interaction with here colleagues is used against Apple and said colleague. Mr. Bullet -that what she called one of the guys had a ticket named "Make Ashley's Life a Living Hell" in 2015. I am amazed how she hold on to it for years and complained about it now. So from 2015 until now, every interaction with here colleagues was documented and now it is used against them. Everything is overdramatized. If you would blur out Apple from here tweets you would think that she works for some drug cartel.
- threshold 5y agoAllegedly? Here it is https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1435421599826518025?s=21 https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1435421599826518025?... In plain English the footnote says not to leak the email and she did it anyway, doxxing a fellow employee. Absolutely grounds for dismissal. Sure Apple has discretion, but why would they exercise it for an employee publicly embarrassing the company at every opportunity? She did this to herself, don’t blame Apple.
- tayistay 5y agoShe redacted the name so it isn’t doxxing.
- threshold 5y agoWell someone at Employee Relations had a slot at 10.30PT filled on the company calendar. So it’s doxxing.
- iD0it4thedrUgz 5y agoThe thing she leaked was in the verge article on August 30th. She leaked an internal tool's name, codename, and screenshots and videos of it. It has nothing to do with any of the emails about her workplace issues.
- johnwalkr 5y agoWhy doesn't apple allow 2 profiles (work and personal) on iphones yet? I have personal and work PCs/laptops, and that's fine because I use those devices for hours at a time. I also have a personal and work iphone and I HATE it. It's inconvenient, I'm constantly changing where headphones are connected, gave up using airpods (not fun to unpair and pair when your devices use different apple IDs) and gave using Apple watch for notifications (can only connect it to one phone). I would be OK allowing my employer to restrict, wipe or whatever a work profile on my personal phone.
- iD0it4thedrUgz 5y agoShe leaked internal IP. She lied about being doxxed on Blind. She asked for paid leave and claimed it was forced on her. She asked for an exit package spanning 18 months covering her entire salary, RSU value, and benefits to leave. She clearly doesn't have a lawyer, so I'd guess all of her claims are entirely baseless. She is a classic cow and belongs on kiwifarms.
- tayistay 5y agoI had to look up what kiwi farms is -- a site used to harass people. Saying she belongs there seriously undermines your credibility. And what's a "classic cow"? Is that just a pejorative for some type of woman?
- iD0it4thedrUgz 5y agoit's a site that exposes people who lie for celebrity
- DarkByte8 5y agokiwifarms is a forum where people laugh at other people usually internet famous people that make a fool of themselves on the internet. The rule is that you don't interact with the subject. There are a lot of people visiting the site and you can't control what everyone is doing but from the few threads that I have watch I did not see any call to harass or interact in any way with the subject. Before posting a comment you see the forum guidelines that includes: "No trolling plans. We are not an autistic Illuminati. If you embarrass yourself or the forum trying to troll, we will ridicule you." The subject of laughter is called a "cow" because it provides laughter i.e. "milk" through his/her action on the internet. The term cow is used regardless of gender, sex, age, etc.
- neoform 5y ago>She clearly doesn't have a lawyer, so I'd guess all of her claims are entirely baseless. The irony is: she's a law student graduating next year... How terrifying.