4 ms·

"an activist for the conservative ruling party. . . He got the job – without even having a university diploma or a military background – thanks to his friends a

"an activist for the conservative ruling party. . . He got the job – without even having a university diploma or a military background – thanks to his friends at the defence ministry." I realize it shows my biases, but I am waiting for the first major troll farm associated with the left and with, I dunno, PETA or whatever the opposite of the military industrial complex is. Do they exist? They must, but it seems (based perhaps on my echo chamber) that 95% of the effort is from vested interests who prefer the status quo over fact.

joe_the_user 5y ago
Troll farms are associated with those who have more money than committed activists. Whatever you may think of the left, it tends to have the opposite. - maybe the vague center left at the level of Jeff Bezos could that but even here, you have money proportionate to committed followers. the opposite of the military industrial complex There's no money in anti-militarism. antiwar.com is a libertarian (ie right) website but it has survive on donations. Troll farm pay for opinions, that's a pretty specific thing. Edit: Reading the article, this farm apparently supported some "left wing" causes. But basically it comes down to money.
- emergie 5y ago
  I have different experience. Soros & co are really operating a political engineering project in eastern europe. He is funding many NGOs here, to the point where regular people hearing "NGO" interprete it as shady-leftist-organisation. We have no rich enough capitalists, only foreign leftists care about installing their world view here.
  - NumberCruncher 5y ago
    I used to work in a team where everyone except me had studied at the now closed Central European University. My current personal manager also sudied at the CUE. Very clever and open minded people. And what is "your experience" based on again?
  - nsajko 5y ago
    > regular people hearing "NGO" interprete it as shady-leftist-organisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
  - orwin 5y ago
    If you think Soros and his foundation are leftist, i might have something to sell you.
- RickJWagner 5y ago
  I don't think so. Think of the many things that are 'solid left' ideas online, but enjoy little actual popular support: - Defunding police - Late term abortions - Drastic government enforced restrictions Those are not populist ideas. They do get airtime, though. Somebody's paying for that.
  - antifa 5y ago
    Police accountability and women's reproductive rights are very popular outside of conservative circles. The rest are status quo ideas or nonsense.
    - RickJWagner 5y ago
      Fewer than 1 in 5 support defunding the police. It's also quite unpopular with African Americans. Also including an article from CNBC that asserts late-term abortions are unpopular. So I'd believe this is popular opinion, not necessarily just with conservatives. Got any material that says otherwise? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/07/usa-today-ipsos-poll-just-18-support-defund-police-movement/4599232001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/07/usa-... https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/late-term-abortions-rare-but-unpopular-could-be-major-issue-in-2020.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/late-term-abortions-rare-but...
_jal 5y ago
> that 95% of the effort is from vested interests who prefer the status quo The incumbent power structure has both wealth and incentive to resist change. Underdogs usually don't.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
at_a_remove 5y ago
"Correct the Record" is what you are looking for. Naturally, nobody in the media will call them a troll farm but you have your basic walks like a duck criteria there.
UnpossibleJim 5y ago
Say what you want about the right, but they are a more unified and organized conglomeration. The left tends to dissolve into factions and disagree among themselves. Even in a Democratic held Congress and Senate, it's hard to get things passed where as the Republicans for all their faults seem to push through items after item, block judges from the Supreme Court, etc etc. When it comes to these smaller organizations on the left, like "Antifa" they aren't even an organization, really. It's just a name, and you are Antifa if you say you are. The guy shooting at the WA state prison was just as much Antifa as the protestors in Portland, even though they had no connection or similar goals or values. This leads people to argue as to whether or not Antifa really exists. For some it does, and they believe they are in it. As a unified organization, not really.... welco.e to a lot of left "organizations". It's hard to get things like a troll farm going when you can't even get yourself grouped with a single purpose.
- JasonFruit 5y ago
  It's fascinating that you say this, because I had only moments before read a conservative bemoaning that the right has so much infighting, unlike the united left. Maybe it's easier to see the division on your own side (if I may make the assumption).
  - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
    You aren't wrong. I'm not particularly conservative on a lot of issues, even though I'm not a Democrat.
  - erosenbe0 5y ago
    The level of inglorious buffoonery that we are seeing would not be possible if either side had any modicum of unity.
- specialist 5y ago
  I call this the No Caucus vs the Yes Caucus. Unlike sportsball and war, defending the political status quo is always easier. Building consensus in the Yes Caucus is very hard. Agree that something must be done. Then herd the kittens. Then buy off all the hostage takers and defectors. Then the caucus dissolves for every little victory (little potential for building momentum). Etc. Whereas the members of the No Caucus only need to agree on "No." It's unfortunate, or least weird, that "right" and "left" have been associated with establishment and reform. What ever one's opinion of movement Conservatives, 60 years ago they were the reformers, challenging the status quo. They succeeded. And now they're playing defense, with all the inherit advantages.
blakesterz 5y ago
This place does seem to work both sides. This down towards the end of the piece: "But the company does not only have right-wing clients – they work as well for ‘the other side’. On May 10, the company was ordered to suspend activities in favour of TVP until further notice. From now on the troll farm focused on the Twitter account of the deputy head of the Democratic Left Alliance (SLD), Andrzej Szejna. He is a successful lawyer and election candidate."
nineplay 5y ago
FTA > But the company does not only have right-wing clients – they work as well for ‘the other side’. On May 10, the company was ordered to suspend activities in favour of TVP until further notice. From now on the troll farm focused on the Twitter account of the deputy head of the Democratic Left Alliance (SLD), Andrzej Szejna. He is a successful lawyer and election candidate. Trolls gotta troll. I thought it was pretty widely known that the many troll farms work just to drive us all apart. They scream loudly with extremist views and convince everyone on either side that their opponents are plain crazy. I was startled to find recently that the 70% of adults in the US have at least one shot. Any media outlet would have you believe it was 50/50.
- tclancy 5y ago
  Yup, I missed that, thanks for the correction.
erosenbe0 5y ago
Many animal charities are trolls though. You can start a charity and your 'independent' board can just pay you and your brother who runs the advertising all the money. Send a few bucks to your cousin the lobbyist, some more to your other cousin who owns the office complex, and then leave 1% as grants for animal shelters. This is not far from what some PETA like charities do.
OneEyedRobot 5y ago
>vested interests who prefer the status quo over fact I'd say that the Left is the status quo in the West at this point. We probably need new terms for everybody.
- notriddle 5y ago
  We do need new terms for everybody. These terms from Revolutionary France are making enemies out of pepper who mostly agree with each other, and allies out of people who don’t actually agree on very much.
vintermann 5y ago
Troll farms are just one form of social media manipulation. A far more common thing is a mailing list or a discord or similar used for covert coordination of things which aren't supposed to be coordinated: voting on social media sites, reporting campaigns, news coverage spin (or news blackouts), even infiltration and false flag posting. It's been a problem for years. I think that online, Wikipedia was the starting point, since it was the first social site which was vulnerable to entryism and actually a tasty prize to have control over. There's no end to the "secret mailing list"-scandals of Wikipedia over the years. And Wikipiedia at least publicly acknowledges off-site secret coordination as a problem, unlike most other supposedly user-driven sites. The less actual support a view has, the more it may tend to troll farming or corporate astroturf. But for views with some degree of popular support, left and right, backroom deals in the vampire castle is where the serious manipulation business happens.

joe_the_user 5y ago

Troll farms are associated with those who have more money than committed activists. Whatever you may think of the left, it tends to have the opposite. - maybe the vague center left at the level of Jeff Bezos could that but even here, you have money proportionate to committed followers. the opposite of the military industrial complex There's no money in anti-militarism. antiwar.com is a libertarian (ie right) website but it has survive on donations. Troll farm pay for opinions, that's a pretty specific thing. Edit: Reading the article, this farm apparently supported some "left wing" causes. But basically it comes down to money.

emergie 5y ago
I have different experience. Soros & co are really operating a political engineering project in eastern europe. He is funding many NGOs here, to the point where regular people hearing "NGO" interprete it as shady-leftist-organisation. We have no rich enough capitalists, only foreign leftists care about installing their world view here.
- NumberCruncher 5y ago
  I used to work in a team where everyone except me had studied at the now closed Central European University. My current personal manager also sudied at the CUE. Very clever and open minded people. And what is "your experience" based on again?
- nsajko 5y ago
  > regular people hearing "NGO" interprete it as shady-leftist-organisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
- orwin 5y ago
  If you think Soros and his foundation are leftist, i might have something to sell you.
RickJWagner 5y ago
I don't think so. Think of the many things that are 'solid left' ideas online, but enjoy little actual popular support: - Defunding police - Late term abortions - Drastic government enforced restrictions Those are not populist ideas. They do get airtime, though. Somebody's paying for that.
- antifa 5y ago
  Police accountability and women's reproductive rights are very popular outside of conservative circles. The rest are status quo ideas or nonsense.
  - RickJWagner 5y ago
    Fewer than 1 in 5 support defunding the police. It's also quite unpopular with African Americans. Also including an article from CNBC that asserts late-term abortions are unpopular. So I'd believe this is popular opinion, not necessarily just with conservatives. Got any material that says otherwise? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/07/usa-today-ipsos-poll-just-18-support-defund-police-movement/4599232001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/03/07/usa-... https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/late-term-abortions-rare-but-unpopular-could-be-major-issue-in-2020.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/late-term-abortions-rare-but...

_jal 5y ago

> that 95% of the effort is from vested interests who prefer the status quo The incumbent power structure has both wealth and incentive to resist change. Underdogs usually don't.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

at_a_remove 5y ago

"Correct the Record" is what you are looking for. Naturally, nobody in the media will call them a troll farm but you have your basic walks like a duck criteria there.

UnpossibleJim 5y ago

Say what you want about the right, but they are a more unified and organized conglomeration. The left tends to dissolve into factions and disagree among themselves. Even in a Democratic held Congress and Senate, it's hard to get things passed where as the Republicans for all their faults seem to push through items after item, block judges from the Supreme Court, etc etc. When it comes to these smaller organizations on the left, like "Antifa" they aren't even an organization, really. It's just a name, and you are Antifa if you say you are. The guy shooting at the WA state prison was just as much Antifa as the protestors in Portland, even though they had no connection or similar goals or values. This leads people to argue as to whether or not Antifa really exists. For some it does, and they believe they are in it. As a unified organization, not really.... welco.e to a lot of left "organizations". It's hard to get things like a troll farm going when you can't even get yourself grouped with a single purpose.

JasonFruit 5y ago
It's fascinating that you say this, because I had only moments before read a conservative bemoaning that the right has so much infighting, unlike the united left. Maybe it's easier to see the division on your own side (if I may make the assumption).
- UnpossibleJim 5y ago
  You aren't wrong. I'm not particularly conservative on a lot of issues, even though I'm not a Democrat.
- erosenbe0 5y ago
  The level of inglorious buffoonery that we are seeing would not be possible if either side had any modicum of unity.
specialist 5y ago
I call this the No Caucus vs the Yes Caucus. Unlike sportsball and war, defending the political status quo is always easier. Building consensus in the Yes Caucus is very hard. Agree that something must be done. Then herd the kittens. Then buy off all the hostage takers and defectors. Then the caucus dissolves for every little victory (little potential for building momentum). Etc. Whereas the members of the No Caucus only need to agree on "No." It's unfortunate, or least weird, that "right" and "left" have been associated with establishment and reform. What ever one's opinion of movement Conservatives, 60 years ago they were the reformers, challenging the status quo. They succeeded. And now they're playing defense, with all the inherit advantages.

blakesterz 5y ago

This place does seem to work both sides. This down towards the end of the piece: "But the company does not only have right-wing clients – they work as well for ‘the other side’. On May 10, the company was ordered to suspend activities in favour of TVP until further notice. From now on the troll farm focused on the Twitter account of the deputy head of the Democratic Left Alliance (SLD), Andrzej Szejna. He is a successful lawyer and election candidate."

nineplay 5y ago

FTA > But the company does not only have right-wing clients – they work as well for ‘the other side’. On May 10, the company was ordered to suspend activities in favour of TVP until further notice. From now on the troll farm focused on the Twitter account of the deputy head of the Democratic Left Alliance (SLD), Andrzej Szejna. He is a successful lawyer and election candidate. Trolls gotta troll. I thought it was pretty widely known that the many troll farms work just to drive us all apart. They scream loudly with extremist views and convince everyone on either side that their opponents are plain crazy. I was startled to find recently that the 70% of adults in the US have at least one shot. Any media outlet would have you believe it was 50/50.

tclancy 5y ago
Yup, I missed that, thanks for the correction.

erosenbe0 5y ago

Many animal charities are trolls though. You can start a charity and your 'independent' board can just pay you and your brother who runs the advertising all the money. Send a few bucks to your cousin the lobbyist, some more to your other cousin who owns the office complex, and then leave 1% as grants for animal shelters. This is not far from what some PETA like charities do.

OneEyedRobot 5y ago

>vested interests who prefer the status quo over fact I'd say that the Left is the status quo in the West at this point. We probably need new terms for everybody.

notriddle 5y ago
We do need new terms for everybody. These terms from Revolutionary France are making enemies out of pepper who mostly agree with each other, and allies out of people who don’t actually agree on very much.

vintermann 5y ago

Troll farms are just one form of social media manipulation. A far more common thing is a mailing list or a discord or similar used for covert coordination of things which aren't supposed to be coordinated: voting on social media sites, reporting campaigns, news coverage spin (or news blackouts), even infiltration and false flag posting. It's been a problem for years. I think that online, Wikipedia was the starting point, since it was the first social site which was vulnerable to entryism and actually a tasty prize to have control over. There's no end to the "secret mailing list"-scandals of Wikipedia over the years. And Wikipiedia at least publicly acknowledges off-site secret coordination as a problem, unlike most other supposedly user-driven sites. The less actual support a view has, the more it may tend to troll farming or corporate astroturf. But for views with some degree of popular support, left and right, backroom deals in the vampire castle is where the serious manipulation business happens.