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Regardless of where you stand with this policy, you gotta give it some Kudos: It's a very efficient way to cleanse your entire bureaucracy of doubters. I can'
by woodpanel 5y ago
Regardless of where you stand with this policy, you gotta give it some Kudos:
It's a very efficient way to cleanse your entire bureaucracy of doubters.
I can't think of another example where a democratic republic, which by definition includes a spectrum of opinions, has its whole bureaucratic hierarchy re-aligned with the ruling party's platform.
Maybe this is due to the fact, that this is inherently undemocratic?
- LatteLazy 5y agoIf the only difference between political opinion is whether you get vaccinated or not, you're already a monoculture. The people being "cleansed" here are the crazies (of any political flavour).
- Dma54rhs 5y agoThe majority of black American population?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ZetaZero 5y agoMaybe this is due to the fact, that this is inherently undemocratic? SCOTUS ruled that mandatory vaccines are constitutional back in 1905. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts
- quotemstr 5y agoThe rationale in that case doesn't apply here: the COVID vaccines don't stop the spread of the virus. Because COVID vaccines can't actually stop the spread of the disease under any plausible level of vaccination (the R0 of the virus is too high), vaccines can serve only to safeguard the health of individuals, and we generally don't use heavy-handed nation-wide mandates to force people to do things that are merely good for them health-wise on an individual basis. The same reasoning that justifies this mandate would justify a state-imposed limit on daily calorie consumption, a state-imposed exercise requirement, and all sorts of other coercive measures that, while good for people's health, are flagrant violations of principles of bodily autonomy and informed consent for medical treatment. This isn't about the vaccine and it's not even about COVID. This is about one political tribe using the state to hurt the other political tribe.
- davmar 5y agoWow, you are very wrong on every point.
- dwaltrip 5y agoWe don’t need to eliminate transmission for the vaccines to be useful. My understanding is that they do meaningfully reduce transmission, even for Delta. You are also missing another important factor. In addition to reducing transmission, the vaccines greatly reduce the chance of hospitalization, which together significantly reduces the peak load on the health system so that it continues to function well and serve non-COVID patients. In many areas, hospitals were nearing or at capacity due to the recent Delta surge.
- quotemstr 5y agoI don't think reducing transmission matters that much as long as R_0 is above 1. If it's above 1, everyone is getting this thing.
- anonygler 5y agoThere are 2 separate issues. Reduce transmission, which it only does marginally. Preventing hospitalization is a separate matter and not really worthy of a mandate. Banning alcohol and fast food will save far more lives, in that case.
- 5y ago
- ModernMech 5y agoUndemocratic does not mean unconstitutional. The Electoral College is undemocratic, yet constitutional by definition, for instance. SCOTUS itself is undemocratic yet constitutional.
- ZetaZero 5y ago> Undemocratic ... The USA has always been a Representative Democracy. We elect leaders whom have the power to enact rules and laws. And this is what happened here. Don't confuse what we have with "direct democracy".
- totony 5y agoNote all the "reasonable" and "great danger" in the decision. It's unclear (and to be determined) if covid fits that description
- Broken_Hippo 5y agoWhat do you mean, it is unclear? Do overfilled hospitals not create a great danger?
- oliyoung 5y ago> It's unclear (and to be determined) if covid fits that description 700,000 people have died in the United States 18 months, 4.5 million world wide. Like, what else needs to happen for this pandemic to meet that description?
- makomk 5y agoJacobson v. Massachusetts was a case about smallpox vaccination. For context, smallpox kills about 30% of those who are infected and the vaccine is so effective that the disease has been completely eradicated. Covid-19 is a lot less deadly than that and all indications are that the vaccine for it isn't remotely as effective at preventing infection and spread.
- betterunix2 5y agoVaccination is not a political position. Vaccines only work if a large majority of people are vaccinated and people who refuse to receive the shot are putting everyone else in danger. A basic function of a government is to protect public safety, and that is what a vaccine mandate does.
- sk2020 5y agoYour vaccine does not work unless someone or everyone else has one? Has this been observed with previous vaccine products?
- spywaregorilla 5y agoEveryone getting vaccinated has clear benefits, and helps avoids breakouts. See mumps, measles, polio, etc.
- sk2020 5y agoWell, probably not the people with myocarditis or Bell’s palsy.
- betterunix2 5y agoYes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_infection#By_disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_infection#By_dise... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity Do not think in terms of "your vaccine," because vaccines are about preventing the spread of a disease within a population.
- sk2020 5y agoThat’s interesting. Every other vaccine, like Hep A, Hep B, MMR, TDAP, and flu I’ve taken was to protect myself, or so I thought. But if someone with an account on Wikipedia wrote something, well, I guess that would change everything. I guess we’re lucky to have people who care so deeply and personally about hospital bed utilization rates that they will inflict as much punishment as necessary to meet those goals.
- clairity 5y agoit's not about cleansing doubters, but rather political opposition. and it's never been about effective pandemic mitigation from either major party. it's entirely about flexing and coalescing power. no matter what your political affiliation might be[0], we should always oppose such naked political power-grubbing. [0]: note that i'd strongly argue against having one, not just as a matter of principle, but simply to make politicians really (rather than superficially, as it now is) work for our collective and individual support.
- bestcoder69 5y agoIn Texas to be a public employee you must certify that you will not boycott Israel. This is an actual political position that’s disallowed. Under Biden’s change (correct me if I’m wrong), I can believe whatever I want about vaccines and say anything (so: have a political position)… as long as I get vaccinated (this is not a political position). Not to mention that both ruling parties at the top are urging all to get vaccinated.
- AndrewBissell 5y ago> Not to mention that both ruling parties at the top are urging all to get vaccinated. Ah good, the stuff they come together on is always really great.
- bestcoder69 5y agoYep same with my primary care physician, my kids pediatrician, wife’s OBGYN, and the health authorities of… y’know what damn near everything. On the other hand the dumbest people I’m related to are fiercely on your side. So maybe I need to do some more research.
- woodpanel 5y agoFunny. Certifying to not boycott something is hardly comparable to have something injected into your body. While with the latter your livlyhood dangles on an administered injection of a substance into your body (and probably regular boosters) any pledge to not do something in private is virtually un-enforcable and thus just lipservice.
- bestcoder69 5y agoAre you not familiar with the concept of people getting fired for stuff they do outside of work? How on earth, with at-will employment, could this be unenforceable? And no they’re not comparable, that was the point of my post. One is enforcing a particular political belief on your employees, the other is a routine public health measure, similar to other vaccine requirements I’ve been subjected to. PS without this requirement I’m being implicitly required to inhale morons’ virus spray as a condition of my employment.
- r00fus 5y agoMost of the "doubters" on Fox News had their vaccinations already. Why wouldn't it be the same for doubters in government?