8 ms·

Yea, best to troll on Twitter than fix your country that has the literal highest homicide rate in the world. Murder good for Bitcoin?

bpodgursky 5y ago
Fixing crippling poverty a big part of fixing murder. The president thinks that this is their path to leap-frogging into the lead w/ a digital economy and giving people opportunities not linked to drugs and crime. Is it how I do it? Probably not exactly. But it's disingenuous to say that economic and financial changes are not a piece of fixing social problems like persistent crime.
doomroot 5y ago
Good argument. /s
Geee 5y ago
He fixed the homicide rate already. [0] [0] https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/03/el-salvador-homicide-historic-low-2020-gangs-migration/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/03/el-salvador-homicide-hi...
- arcticbull 5y ago
  ... by looking the other way while the cartels operate with impunity. My understanding was there was a handshake deal with the narcos that if they stopped murdering they'd stop checking in on them. [1] So yes, if you allow the state to become an arm of the cartels then I suppose you can call it a job well done that they're not murdering as many people. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-54192736 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-54192736
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    Seems like a reasonable decision to me. I don't see how else the government could control the cartels. Plus it's got to be decent for their economy.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      Yes, let's all surrender to the criminals. Embrace the inescapable mad-max future. Maybe the Sicilians should run for office in Italy?
      - colinmhayes 5y ago
        Is civil war forever really the best policy? At some point it makes sense to realize war is costly, both in terms of lives and the economy. When is it time to just try to make the best peace you can?
        arcticbull 5y ago
        Is acquiescing to violent murderers and criminals?
        colinmhayes 5y ago
        If it stops them from murdering as much, it might be? The options seem to be they murder indiscriminately because they pretty much control the government or they murder less indiscriminately because they came to an agreement on when it's ok to murder with the government. I think option 2 is better, but different normative ethical philosophies certainly disagree.
      - quantumBerry 5y ago
        Be the change you want in this world. Why don't you go to El Salvador yourself and "fix" these criminals. I can't wait to see the results.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > I don't see how else the government could control the cartels. The use of “else” implies that this surrender constitutes the “government” controlling the cartels rather than vice versa. In fact, the cartels are the government, they’ve just outsourced the boring and less-profitable aspects of governing to the entity that calls itself the “government”, as long as it stays in line. (Which, to be fair, hardly makes El Salvador unique.)
ulzeraj 5y ago
A middle finger to the IMF sharks is a good start to fix a country.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > A middle finger to the IMF sharks is a good start to fix a country. On the one hand, I’m no IMF fan and appreciate how that abstractly could be part of the beginning of a better fix than typically comes of working with the IMF. On the other hand, in practice it seems usually to be part of a flag-waving, nationalist, foreigners-are-the-problem distraction for regime leaders implementing either looting the country or tightening an authoritarian fist around it under the guise of economic/financial reforms not beholden to foreigners (but any of whose bad effects will be blamed on foreign interference.)
  - imtringued 5y ago
    The UK started the foreigner blame game in 2016. It will probably get worse in other nations.
  - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
    Sure but the IMF has been no friend of poorer countries for a while now. And accepting Bitcoin as legal tender is _probably_ not a nationalist/isolationist move.
- lottin 5y ago
  I don't know about "sharks"... The only reason the IMF gets involved in a country is because the government asked for a loan from the IMF.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sabellito 5y ago
I have the feeling you don't really care about El Salvador's homicide rate.
- purple_ferret 5y ago
  I'm sure most Americans do (along with the country's corruption, poverty, and overall decline) as it's part of the reason El Salvadorians are flooding the USA over the southern border
el-salvador 5y ago
> Yea, best to troll on Twitter than fix your country that has the literal highest homicide rate in the world. It used to be like that. Now the homicide rate is the lowest in modern history of El Salvador.

bpodgursky 5y ago

Fixing crippling poverty a big part of fixing murder. The president thinks that this is their path to leap-frogging into the lead w/ a digital economy and giving people opportunities not linked to drugs and crime. Is it how I do it? Probably not exactly. But it's disingenuous to say that economic and financial changes are not a piece of fixing social problems like persistent crime.

doomroot 5y ago

Good argument. /s

Geee 5y ago

He fixed the homicide rate already. [0] [0] https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/03/el-salvador-homicide-historic-low-2020-gangs-migration/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/03/el-salvador-homicide-hi...

arcticbull 5y ago
... by looking the other way while the cartels operate with impunity. My understanding was there was a handshake deal with the narcos that if they stopped murdering they'd stop checking in on them. [1] So yes, if you allow the state to become an arm of the cartels then I suppose you can call it a job well done that they're not murdering as many people. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-54192736 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-54192736
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  Seems like a reasonable decision to me. I don't see how else the government could control the cartels. Plus it's got to be decent for their economy.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Yes, let's all surrender to the criminals. Embrace the inescapable mad-max future. Maybe the Sicilians should run for office in Italy?
    - colinmhayes 5y ago
      Is civil war forever really the best policy? At some point it makes sense to realize war is costly, both in terms of lives and the economy. When is it time to just try to make the best peace you can?
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        Is acquiescing to violent murderers and criminals?
        colinmhayes 5y ago
        If it stops them from murdering as much, it might be? The options seem to be they murder indiscriminately because they pretty much control the government or they murder less indiscriminately because they came to an agreement on when it's ok to murder with the government. I think option 2 is better, but different normative ethical philosophies certainly disagree.
    - quantumBerry 5y ago
      Be the change you want in this world. Why don't you go to El Salvador yourself and "fix" these criminals. I can't wait to see the results.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > I don't see how else the government could control the cartels. The use of “else” implies that this surrender constitutes the “government” controlling the cartels rather than vice versa. In fact, the cartels are the government, they’ve just outsourced the boring and less-profitable aspects of governing to the entity that calls itself the “government”, as long as it stays in line. (Which, to be fair, hardly makes El Salvador unique.)

ulzeraj 5y ago

A middle finger to the IMF sharks is a good start to fix a country.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> A middle finger to the IMF sharks is a good start to fix a country. On the one hand, I’m no IMF fan and appreciate how that abstractly could be part of the beginning of a better fix than typically comes of working with the IMF. On the other hand, in practice it seems usually to be part of a flag-waving, nationalist, foreigners-are-the-problem distraction for regime leaders implementing either looting the country or tightening an authoritarian fist around it under the guise of economic/financial reforms not beholden to foreigners (but any of whose bad effects will be blamed on foreign interference.)
- imtringued 5y ago
  The UK started the foreigner blame game in 2016. It will probably get worse in other nations.
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  Sure but the IMF has been no friend of poorer countries for a while now. And accepting Bitcoin as legal tender is _probably_ not a nationalist/isolationist move.
lottin 5y ago
I don't know about "sharks"... The only reason the IMF gets involved in a country is because the government asked for a loan from the IMF.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sabellito 5y ago

I have the feeling you don't really care about El Salvador's homicide rate.

purple_ferret 5y ago
I'm sure most Americans do (along with the country's corruption, poverty, and overall decline) as it's part of the reason El Salvadorians are flooding the USA over the southern border

el-salvador 5y ago

> Yea, best to troll on Twitter than fix your country that has the literal highest homicide rate in the world. It used to be like that. Now the homicide rate is the lowest in modern history of El Salvador.