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The only way to make housing affordable is to end property investing.

lostlogin 5y ago
New Zealand had a stock market crash in the ’80s which is frequently blamed for the aversion New Zealanders have to shares and the love of property investment. We have a truely terrible housing stock (cold, damp and poorly maintained) and in the largest city, Auckland, the average house price is 20x the average wage. People claim it’s untenable but the rise in values has been utterly relentless.
- tjpnz 5y ago
  Nothing's going to put that cat back in the bag at this rate, short of a capital gains tax. But given 70% of our politicians are property investors themselves that won't ever be on the cards. This whole sorry state of affairs makes me glad I left the country. That and how utterly abysmal IT salaries are.
- arp242 5y ago
  When I lived in Dunedin a few years ago I was truly shocked at the state of the houses. I don't think I've ever seen a house in the Netherlands without central heating; but I've never seen a house with central heating in Dunedin, and Dunedin is quite a bit colder than the Netherlands. Isolation and even double glazing seems almost non-existent and wooden houses are the norm. Don't get me wrong, I really loved living there, and I'd move back in an instant (but work visas are very hard at the moment), but Kiwi houses are the worst and many decades behind Europe.
throwaway6734 5y ago
What defines property investing? Why not a land value tax instead?
kortilla 5y ago
How do you buy a house then? Does the government just own all housing?
- jlokier 5y ago
  You just buy a house the usual ways and live in it. With cash or a mortgage. If you live in it, it's not called "property investing". "Property investing" refers to buying property to benefit from price speculation and use as a store of value, without actually using the property as a home. The property may sit there empty most or all of the time, or it may be rented out, with a combination of rent and price speculation being the owner's business plan. "Flipping" may be involved.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    Since houses don’t wear out or get used up, like clothes or food, and you can sell them when you’re done with them, they’re inherently an investment.
    - jlokier 5y ago
      Sure, they're an investment too, but properties bought primarily to live in, with investment as a handy side effect, do not have the same effect on housing availability and affordability. Each such purchase reduces supply by 1, but also reduces demand by 1, and gives someone relative stability. So purchasing to live in is not what "property investment" refers to in this context. It has a narrower meaning than "anything you could conceivably think of as an investment". Aside, houses do in fact wear out, need regular repair, and eventually most get demolished because regular repair isn't good enough.
    - imtringued 5y ago
      They do. It's the land that goes up in value.
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        Houses get more valuable the older they are. Most people don't want new houses.
        5y ago

New Zealand had a stock market crash in the ’80s which is frequently blamed for the aversion New Zealanders have to shares and the love of property investment. We have a truely terrible housing stock (cold, damp and poorly maintained) and in the largest city, Auckland, the average house price is 20x the average wage. People claim it’s untenable but the rise in values has been utterly relentless.

tjpnz 5y ago
Nothing's going to put that cat back in the bag at this rate, short of a capital gains tax. But given 70% of our politicians are property investors themselves that won't ever be on the cards. This whole sorry state of affairs makes me glad I left the country. That and how utterly abysmal IT salaries are.
arp242 5y ago
When I lived in Dunedin a few years ago I was truly shocked at the state of the houses. I don't think I've ever seen a house in the Netherlands without central heating; but I've never seen a house with central heating in Dunedin, and Dunedin is quite a bit colder than the Netherlands. Isolation and even double glazing seems almost non-existent and wooden houses are the norm. Don't get me wrong, I really loved living there, and I'd move back in an instant (but work visas are very hard at the moment), but Kiwi houses are the worst and many decades behind Europe.

throwaway6734 5y ago

What defines property investing? Why not a land value tax instead?

kortilla 5y ago

How do you buy a house then? Does the government just own all housing?

jlokier 5y ago
You just buy a house the usual ways and live in it. With cash or a mortgage. If you live in it, it's not called "property investing". "Property investing" refers to buying property to benefit from price speculation and use as a store of value, without actually using the property as a home. The property may sit there empty most or all of the time, or it may be rented out, with a combination of rent and price speculation being the owner's business plan. "Flipping" may be involved.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  Since houses don’t wear out or get used up, like clothes or food, and you can sell them when you’re done with them, they’re inherently an investment.
  - jlokier 5y ago
    Sure, they're an investment too, but properties bought primarily to live in, with investment as a handy side effect, do not have the same effect on housing availability and affordability. Each such purchase reduces supply by 1, but also reduces demand by 1, and gives someone relative stability. So purchasing to live in is not what "property investment" refers to in this context. It has a narrower meaning than "anything you could conceivably think of as an investment". Aside, houses do in fact wear out, need regular repair, and eventually most get demolished because regular repair isn't good enough.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    They do. It's the land that goes up in value.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      Houses get more valuable the older they are. Most people don't want new houses.
      - 5y ago