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Cloth masks are quite effective against viruses with a droplet based spread. Widespread mask use came as close to wiping out last year's Flu season as we've ev

Cloth masks are quite effective against viruses with a droplet based spread. Widespread mask use came as close to wiping out last year's Flu season as we've ever seen. >Amid COVID-19 pandemic, flu has disappeared in the US NEW YORK (AP) — February is usually the peak of flu season, with doctors’ offices and hospitals packed with suffering patients. But not this year. Nationally, “this is the lowest flu season we’ve had on record,” according to a surveillance system that is about 25 years old, said Lynnette Brammer of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. https://apnews.com/article/flu-has-disappeared-us-pandemic-2145d999319b53d8a32a829a324f398d https://apnews.com/article/flu-has-disappeared-us-pandemic-2... However, during the same period where the Flu disappeared, there was a massive Covid surge, because cloth masks are not an effective means of filtering an airborne virus from the air you breathe. Here's one of the scientists on President Biden's Covid advisory board being interviewed on PBS. >Studies that have been done show that if an individual might get infected within 15 minutes in a room, by time and concentration of the virus in the room, add a face cloth covering you only get about five more minutes of protection. On the other hand if you use the n95 respirators and fit them tight to your face, you can actually spend 25 hours in that same room and still be protected. https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks-provide-much-protection-we-think-bglhwy/ https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks... To get the kind of protection people imagine that cloth masks provide, you have to wear the same sort of masks that medical professionals are required to wear while treating patients who have an airborne virus. Which is not surprising since we know Covid is fully airborne. Unfortunately, those of us on the left have rejected this news in the same way that the crowd at a Trump rally rejected Trump when he told them that they should get vaccinated. Cloth masks are not an adequate substitute for vaccination, especially for children too young to be vaccinated who are now expected to attend full school days.

Kiro 5y ago
Flu was almost eliminated in Sweden as well and we had almost no mask usage. Feels like social distancing was the more important factor.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  The issue is that the early measures we took with Covid were based on the false assumption that Covid has a droplet based spread. Now that we know it is airborne, we have to change our focus. An n95 mask can help filter the air you breathe and a cloth mask cannot. In indoor public spaces, we don't need the security theater of disinfecting surfaces. That money would better be spent on improving ventilation.
uberduper 5y ago
Isn't the flu generally transmitted through touch? i.e. hand to mouth. I was under the impression the reduced flu rates were due to hand washing, hand sanitizer, and potentially from masks preventing people from touching their face. But not the filtration masks provide.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  The entire point of the masks was to catch the large droplets that people cough or sneeze out when they are infected with a virus that has a droplet based spread. That prevents those droplets from landing on surfaces where others will come in contact with them.
djrogers 5y ago
> Widespread mask use came as close to wiping out last year's Flu season as we've ever seen. I don’t think masks get alll the credit here, not even most possibly. The US was busy spraying down shopping carts with alcohol, fogging stores with disinfectant, and wiping every surface we could find with Lysol. Turns out that does nothing for Covid, but it’s extremely effective against flu virus.
timr 5y ago
> Widespread mask use came as close to wiping out last year's Flu season as we've ever seen. This is an assertion. It could have been the fact that nobody was traveling last year. It could have been the fact that most kids were out of school. It could have been distancing. It could have been any number of other things. Any conclusion here is premature.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  The conclusion that cloth masks are ineffective against viruses with an airborne spread, while a properly worn n95 mask does provide real protection is hardly premature. Here's the quote above from one of the scientists on President Biden's Covid advisory board in context: >Needless to say, masking is political hot button beyond anything I've ever seen in public health. At the same time i think we've all done a disservice to the public. When you actually look at face cloth coverings, they actually only have very limited impact in reducing the amount of virus that you inhale in or exhale out. Studies that have been done show that if an individual might get infected within 15 minutes in a room, by time and concentration of the virus in the room, add a face cloth covering you only get about five more minutes of protection. I've been really disappointed with my colleagues in public health for not being more clear about what can masking can do or not do. On the other hand if you use the n95 respirators and fit them tight to your face, you can actually spend 25 hours in that same room and still be protected. The bottom line though is by telling people that in fact just putting a face cloth covering on is going to protect you is simply not true. https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks-provide-much-protection-we-think-bglhwy/ https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks... People are flailing away to claim that cloth masks "do so do something" in a very counterproductive way. I'm reminded of Ivermectin proponents.
  - timr 5y ago
    > The conclusion that cloth masks are ineffective against viruses with an airborne spread, while a properly worn n95 mask does provide real protection is hardly premature. You're just asserting it to be true, so yes, it is. > I've been really disappointed with my colleagues in public health for not being more clear about what can masking can do or not do. I agree with this, but probably not for the reason you're saying it. It's hard to "be clear about what masking can do", when you haven't actually bothered to gather any evidence for it, one way or the other.
nradov 5y ago
The science on mask mandates for young school children is unclear. Most European countries don't require it. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski...
- hadlock 5y ago
  As far as schools are concerned, Delta is a completely different virus. Outbreaks appear to be much more common in the US this fall with Delta, compared to this spring before Delta became the dominant strain. It's difficult to make long term comparisons and draw definitive conclusions when the mutations are great between semesters.
  - nradov 5y ago
    The Delta variant is more contagious so there is a higher rate of infections, but it's not a completely different virus. Symptoms in children are no more severe than with earlier variants. "Among all hospitalized children and adolescents with COVID-19, the proportions with indicators of severe disease (such as intensive care unit [ICU] admission) after the Delta variant became predominant (June 20–July 31, 2021) were similar to those earlier in the pandemic (March 1, 2020–June 19, 2021)." https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7036e2.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7036e2.htm
    - hadlock 5y ago
      I don't disagree, that is why I added a qualifier immediately before my statement about Delta.
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      At least for the children too young to be vaccinated, the Delta variant might as well be a completely different virus. Previous versions of Covid were unlikely to infect children below puberty at all. >More kids were hospitalized with Covid-19 this month than any other time this past year -- proving how seriously the Delta variant can hit any age group. Between August 20 and 26, an average of 330 children were admitted to hospitals every day with Covid-19, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "This virus that we're dealing with now is a game changer," said Dr. Mark Kline, physician-in-chief of Children's Hospital New Orleans. "It's just so easily transmitted from person-to-person." As of August 9, he said, "half of the children that we've admitted have been under the age of 2." https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/31/health/covid-delta-variant-children/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/31/health/covid-delta-variant-ch...

Kiro 5y ago

Flu was almost eliminated in Sweden as well and we had almost no mask usage. Feels like social distancing was the more important factor.

GeekyBear 5y ago
The issue is that the early measures we took with Covid were based on the false assumption that Covid has a droplet based spread. Now that we know it is airborne, we have to change our focus. An n95 mask can help filter the air you breathe and a cloth mask cannot. In indoor public spaces, we don't need the security theater of disinfecting surfaces. That money would better be spent on improving ventilation.

uberduper 5y ago

Isn't the flu generally transmitted through touch? i.e. hand to mouth. I was under the impression the reduced flu rates were due to hand washing, hand sanitizer, and potentially from masks preventing people from touching their face. But not the filtration masks provide.

GeekyBear 5y ago
The entire point of the masks was to catch the large droplets that people cough or sneeze out when they are infected with a virus that has a droplet based spread. That prevents those droplets from landing on surfaces where others will come in contact with them.

djrogers 5y ago

> Widespread mask use came as close to wiping out last year's Flu season as we've ever seen. I don’t think masks get alll the credit here, not even most possibly. The US was busy spraying down shopping carts with alcohol, fogging stores with disinfectant, and wiping every surface we could find with Lysol. Turns out that does nothing for Covid, but it’s extremely effective against flu virus.

timr 5y ago

> Widespread mask use came as close to wiping out last year's Flu season as we've ever seen. This is an assertion. It could have been the fact that nobody was traveling last year. It could have been the fact that most kids were out of school. It could have been distancing. It could have been any number of other things. Any conclusion here is premature.

GeekyBear 5y ago
The conclusion that cloth masks are ineffective against viruses with an airborne spread, while a properly worn n95 mask does provide real protection is hardly premature. Here's the quote above from one of the scientists on President Biden's Covid advisory board in context: >Needless to say, masking is political hot button beyond anything I've ever seen in public health. At the same time i think we've all done a disservice to the public. When you actually look at face cloth coverings, they actually only have very limited impact in reducing the amount of virus that you inhale in or exhale out. Studies that have been done show that if an individual might get infected within 15 minutes in a room, by time and concentration of the virus in the room, add a face cloth covering you only get about five more minutes of protection. I've been really disappointed with my colleagues in public health for not being more clear about what can masking can do or not do. On the other hand if you use the n95 respirators and fit them tight to your face, you can actually spend 25 hours in that same room and still be protected. The bottom line though is by telling people that in fact just putting a face cloth covering on is going to protect you is simply not true. https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks-provide-much-protection-we-think-bglhwy/ https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks... People are flailing away to claim that cloth masks "do so do something" in a very counterproductive way. I'm reminded of Ivermectin proponents.
- timr 5y ago
  > The conclusion that cloth masks are ineffective against viruses with an airborne spread, while a properly worn n95 mask does provide real protection is hardly premature. You're just asserting it to be true, so yes, it is. > I've been really disappointed with my colleagues in public health for not being more clear about what can masking can do or not do. I agree with this, but probably not for the reason you're saying it. It's hard to "be clear about what masking can do", when you haven't actually bothered to gather any evidence for it, one way or the other.

nradov 5y ago

The science on mask mandates for young school children is unclear. Most European countries don't require it. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-maski...

hadlock 5y ago
As far as schools are concerned, Delta is a completely different virus. Outbreaks appear to be much more common in the US this fall with Delta, compared to this spring before Delta became the dominant strain. It's difficult to make long term comparisons and draw definitive conclusions when the mutations are great between semesters.
- nradov 5y ago
  The Delta variant is more contagious so there is a higher rate of infections, but it's not a completely different virus. Symptoms in children are no more severe than with earlier variants. "Among all hospitalized children and adolescents with COVID-19, the proportions with indicators of severe disease (such as intensive care unit [ICU] admission) after the Delta variant became predominant (June 20–July 31, 2021) were similar to those earlier in the pandemic (March 1, 2020–June 19, 2021)." https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7036e2.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7036e2.htm
  - hadlock 5y ago
    I don't disagree, that is why I added a qualifier immediately before my statement about Delta.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    At least for the children too young to be vaccinated, the Delta variant might as well be a completely different virus. Previous versions of Covid were unlikely to infect children below puberty at all. >More kids were hospitalized with Covid-19 this month than any other time this past year -- proving how seriously the Delta variant can hit any age group. Between August 20 and 26, an average of 330 children were admitted to hospitals every day with Covid-19, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "This virus that we're dealing with now is a game changer," said Dr. Mark Kline, physician-in-chief of Children's Hospital New Orleans. "It's just so easily transmitted from person-to-person." As of August 9, he said, "half of the children that we've admitted have been under the age of 2." https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/31/health/covid-delta-variant-children/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/31/health/covid-delta-variant-ch...