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I'm trying to break away from Windows but Linux OSes are in such poor shape as replacements for workstations... In particular I'm talking about desktop environm

by dimgl 5y ago

I'm trying to break away from Windows but Linux OSes are in such poor shape as replacements for workstations... In particular I'm talking about desktop environments, not so much the OSes themselves, although the kernel and the OSes at times have their own problems too. I decided to try GNOME 40, everything was sort of okay until I couldn't even even pin custom applications to the dock... I had to write .desktop files or something and I just gave up. I also tried ElementaryOS but still ran into tons of usability issues. Granted, a lot of those issues are because some apps are missing Linux specific functionality and developers aren't really focused on supporting Linux, but honestly there are power users waiting to get away from Windows right now. Every other week my friends are talking about how once there's a good Linux alternative they're switching and never looking back. Now with Valve's Proton things are looking better than ever for gaming, but it still feels like Linux has a long way to go.

walteweiss 5y ago
Before I switched to Linux (from macOS) I believed such commenters as they gave me the plausible excuse. This is wrong. Linux is very good for an average person. Well, if that average person wants to do something unusual and doesn’t want to invest even a fraction of their time into learning the system… well, blame on them. Making a desktop file is no rocket science, and something you can learn how to do within half an hour at most. Don’t listen to someone who makes such a bold statement as ‘Linux in such a bad state’ and then immediately shows their lack of competence with showing they are unable to make a desktop file. It is not Linux, it is you and all those guys who upvoted you to become the top voted comment on this thread. ElementaryOS is trash, just get yourself Fedora Workstation or even Ubuntu, if you have no idea of how to deal with Linux, changes are it will be much easier for you with those distros.
- walteweiss 5y ago
  Forgot to add about the distros: I didn't mean Ubuntu and Fedora are bad in any way, but the opposite. I think they are very good for an average person who looks to escape Windows. Personally I think Fedora Workstation is much better than Ubuntu, but very similar in that very departments: being very popular and yet working out of the box.
- dimgl 5y ago
  It sucks to say this on Hacker News, but you're being really naive. If I, as a power user, have trouble installing and even running Linux, how can you expect a normal user to do it? I run into non-stop issues with Linux. I ran into a bug where I can't even boot into a Linux OS without artifacts if I have more than one monitor turned on. I ran into sound driver bugs where my microphone pitch is completely off on Discord and other apps. The Fedora installer didn't even open for me. Linux is not accessible. If it was, you'd see hundreds of power users moving to it. You're doing the Linux community a disservice by writing it off as "people being impatient".
  - kempbellt 5y ago
    > Linux is not accessible Linux is extremely accessible. Most popular linux variants can be downloaded for free, and it's easy to find solutions to most common issues you run into. I'd be surprised if there isn't a StackOverflow post or two that have solutions to the issues you ran into, and even if there aren't, you can usually get answers just by asking. Some linux variants are better than others, and YMMV per use case, but saying "linux is not accessible" is incredibly inaccurate.
    - at_a_remove 5y ago
      I refer to this technique as the Distro Distract. I first ran into it during my first experience with Linux in the mid-nineties. I install a distro, I experience problems, there's not a lot of info out there. I hit #linux or some forum and I am told that what I really have is an XY problem, and the real problem is that I am running the wrong distro. So I install Distro #2. And my problems have vanished! But ... but there are new problems that were not there in the first distro. So I hit the forums again and get someone nearly identical telling me that what my actual problem is is that I just have no idea how to pick a decent distro, and what I should really be using is ... People do not want to cycle through one distro after another. That is not accessible. It takes time to pick out the next one and install (less now), and then you go through your stuff until you hit yet another brick wall.
      - 5y ago
- cooljacob204 5y ago
  Having used many flavors of Linux over the years as my work desktop, they are all very capable of being my daily driver. The only thing holding me back at home is anti cheat support for proton.
  - db48x 5y ago
    Why would you even want that?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- xtracto 5y ago
  If someone has Windows on an intel PC with a graphics card (nvidia or amd) and 2 monitors 1 connected to the graphics card and the other to the integrated GPU, they WONT be able to use both monitors once they install Linux (any distro). SURPRISE!!! I use linux in my home pc. I play games and code. I've been tinkering with linux since 1999. With FreeBSD since 1997. Linux has come a long way, but still has A LOT of HUGE rough edges.
  - antifa 5y ago
    Most dedicated GPUs have 2 or 3 monitor ports, so having the integrated GPU also support a extra monitor is not something that worked on windows (at least not until recently, I tried back in the day), also is not a something I would call a rough edge, let alone reasonable to expect in general.
- anaganisk 5y ago
  You average user works on Ms Office, plays some games, uses photoshop and other apps that linux has some alternatives barely. No libre office is not a replacement, GIMP is not a replacement, proton for games is not. They’re compromises. Same about Wine. Im a linux+windows user. Linux is not even near when it comes to average UX.
pndy 5y ago
GNOME team believes that convergence between classic desktop and mobile environment is a process that takes place right now. And thus it's completely fine and justified to abandon the desktop paradigm that majority of people is familiar with and promote this weird hybrid - because GNOME actually behaves and works like neither desktop nor mobile. Of course there's nothing wrong with trying to bring novelty, new fresh ideas - some might be really good but a valid criticism should be taken into account. Especially when it's been piling up for a while. Anyway, unlike with Windows the choice is possible on Linux distributions. You can try KDE/Plasma, Budgie, Cinnamon, lightweight Xfce or MATE, or other more advanced solutions like one of tiling window managers. But if for whatever reasons you still wanna stick with GNOME, you can "patch" it with extensions that may give you Windows-like programs menu, desktop icons (the lack of these in GNOME Shell is often bring up as one of the worst offenses), a proper taskbar or dock, more customization for tray icons and notifications or even tweaked animations. It takes time but results are satisfying. Some distributions like Manjaro Linux offer ready to use layouts which are setting up necessary extensions to mimic behavior of other OSes, while on other you need to work through this alone. GNOME in current form can be "tamed" but if you really want yo make your workflow "yours" or bring familiarity to Linux distribution, then KDE/Plasma customization would be best solution. Here you can have an example what can be done: https://youtu.be/2GYT7BK41zk https://youtu.be/2GYT7BK41zk
hoppyhoppy2 5y ago
For that specific issue I would suggest using MenuLibre: an easy to use menu editor that will allow you to create a launcher for your custom app that you can then pin to the dock
joe_the_user 5y ago
It's really a shame Gnome shell and Ubuntu Unity are so terrible. However, Ubuntu Mate is pretty great and does everything I want or need. And you can install Mate on an existing Ubuntu install and the suckage goes away. https://ubuntu-mate.org/ https://ubuntu-mate.org/

by dimgl 5y ago

walteweiss 5y ago

Before I switched to Linux (from macOS) I believed such commenters as they gave me the plausible excuse. This is wrong. Linux is very good for an average person. Well, if that average person wants to do something unusual and doesn’t want to invest even a fraction of their time into learning the system… well, blame on them. Making a desktop file is no rocket science, and something you can learn how to do within half an hour at most. Don’t listen to someone who makes such a bold statement as ‘Linux in such a bad state’ and then immediately shows their lack of competence with showing they are unable to make a desktop file. It is not Linux, it is you and all those guys who upvoted you to become the top voted comment on this thread. ElementaryOS is trash, just get yourself Fedora Workstation or even Ubuntu, if you have no idea of how to deal with Linux, changes are it will be much easier for you with those distros.

walteweiss 5y ago
Forgot to add about the distros: I didn't mean Ubuntu and Fedora are bad in any way, but the opposite. I think they are very good for an average person who looks to escape Windows. Personally I think Fedora Workstation is much better than Ubuntu, but very similar in that very departments: being very popular and yet working out of the box.
dimgl 5y ago
It sucks to say this on Hacker News, but you're being really naive. If I, as a power user, have trouble installing and even running Linux, how can you expect a normal user to do it? I run into non-stop issues with Linux. I ran into a bug where I can't even boot into a Linux OS without artifacts if I have more than one monitor turned on. I ran into sound driver bugs where my microphone pitch is completely off on Discord and other apps. The Fedora installer didn't even open for me. Linux is not accessible. If it was, you'd see hundreds of power users moving to it. You're doing the Linux community a disservice by writing it off as "people being impatient".
- kempbellt 5y ago
  > Linux is not accessible Linux is extremely accessible. Most popular linux variants can be downloaded for free, and it's easy to find solutions to most common issues you run into. I'd be surprised if there isn't a StackOverflow post or two that have solutions to the issues you ran into, and even if there aren't, you can usually get answers just by asking. Some linux variants are better than others, and YMMV per use case, but saying "linux is not accessible" is incredibly inaccurate.
  - at_a_remove 5y ago
    I refer to this technique as the Distro Distract. I first ran into it during my first experience with Linux in the mid-nineties. I install a distro, I experience problems, there's not a lot of info out there. I hit #linux or some forum and I am told that what I really have is an XY problem, and the real problem is that I am running the wrong distro. So I install Distro #2. And my problems have vanished! But ... but there are new problems that were not there in the first distro. So I hit the forums again and get someone nearly identical telling me that what my actual problem is is that I just have no idea how to pick a decent distro, and what I should really be using is ... People do not want to cycle through one distro after another. That is not accessible. It takes time to pick out the next one and install (less now), and then you go through your stuff until you hit yet another brick wall.
    - 5y ago
cooljacob204 5y ago
Having used many flavors of Linux over the years as my work desktop, they are all very capable of being my daily driver. The only thing holding me back at home is anti cheat support for proton.
- db48x 5y ago
  Why would you even want that?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
xtracto 5y ago
If someone has Windows on an intel PC with a graphics card (nvidia or amd) and 2 monitors 1 connected to the graphics card and the other to the integrated GPU, they WONT be able to use both monitors once they install Linux (any distro). SURPRISE!!! I use linux in my home pc. I play games and code. I've been tinkering with linux since 1999. With FreeBSD since 1997. Linux has come a long way, but still has A LOT of HUGE rough edges.
- antifa 5y ago
  Most dedicated GPUs have 2 or 3 monitor ports, so having the integrated GPU also support a extra monitor is not something that worked on windows (at least not until recently, I tried back in the day), also is not a something I would call a rough edge, let alone reasonable to expect in general.
anaganisk 5y ago
You average user works on Ms Office, plays some games, uses photoshop and other apps that linux has some alternatives barely. No libre office is not a replacement, GIMP is not a replacement, proton for games is not. They’re compromises. Same about Wine. Im a linux+windows user. Linux is not even near when it comes to average UX.

pndy 5y ago

GNOME team believes that convergence between classic desktop and mobile environment is a process that takes place right now. And thus it's completely fine and justified to abandon the desktop paradigm that majority of people is familiar with and promote this weird hybrid - because GNOME actually behaves and works like neither desktop nor mobile. Of course there's nothing wrong with trying to bring novelty, new fresh ideas - some might be really good but a valid criticism should be taken into account. Especially when it's been piling up for a while. Anyway, unlike with Windows the choice is possible on Linux distributions. You can try KDE/Plasma, Budgie, Cinnamon, lightweight Xfce or MATE, or other more advanced solutions like one of tiling window managers. But if for whatever reasons you still wanna stick with GNOME, you can "patch" it with extensions that may give you Windows-like programs menu, desktop icons (the lack of these in GNOME Shell is often bring up as one of the worst offenses), a proper taskbar or dock, more customization for tray icons and notifications or even tweaked animations. It takes time but results are satisfying. Some distributions like Manjaro Linux offer ready to use layouts which are setting up necessary extensions to mimic behavior of other OSes, while on other you need to work through this alone. GNOME in current form can be "tamed" but if you really want yo make your workflow "yours" or bring familiarity to Linux distribution, then KDE/Plasma customization would be best solution. Here you can have an example what can be done: https://youtu.be/2GYT7BK41zk https://youtu.be/2GYT7BK41zk

hoppyhoppy2 5y ago

For that specific issue I would suggest using MenuLibre: an easy to use menu editor that will allow you to create a launcher for your custom app that you can then pin to the dock

joe_the_user 5y ago

It's really a shame Gnome shell and Ubuntu Unity are so terrible. However, Ubuntu Mate is pretty great and does everything I want or need. And you can install Mate on an existing Ubuntu install and the suckage goes away. https://ubuntu-mate.org/ https://ubuntu-mate.org/