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A friend of mine is a manager at a Safeway. He says a typical store might lose six figures worth of product in a year. In a bad neighborhood it's not uncommon t

A friend of mine is a manager at a Safeway. He says a typical store might lose six figures worth of product in a year. In a bad neighborhood it's not uncommon to lose over a million dollars a year. They hire security personnel, but people figure out that a) even when security catches you, they are not allowed to restrain you and b) the police do not respond to shoplifters (in certain jurisdictions they are not allowed to. The stores are responsible for the cost of missing inventory - they credit it back to the manufacturers. Stores already run tight margins, so this cost ends up getting paid by reduced headcount at stores (except for security, if it's bad enough) and directly in prices. And this is in the grocery space, where there's very little secondary market for the stolen goods!

13of40 5y ago
I noticed my local Home Depot has done away with the security tag scanners at the front of the store, apparently in favor of a cluster of new cameras above all the exits. I wonder if we're headed for just having an AI watch everyone all the time in the store like the automatic-purchase grocery stores Amazon was setting up. Either that or they discovered that it was better for their bottom line to put real security around the power tools than bust people for stealing trivial things.
- sjg007 5y ago
  Ultimately high value things will get secured behind a clerk where you take a picture card of what you want to them. Stores will use cameras and AI to build a comprehensive case against someone or group and then notify the police. That will be enough for a warrant etc... Probably a startup or two in this space. I am sure home depot or CVS will invest in your series A.
  - sjg007 5y ago
    Interestingly I was in Best Buy and this is what they’ve done.
- DavidPeiffer 5y ago
  From a month ago, they're working on some new methods where power tools won't work until they're activated at the register. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28035458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28035458
ericcholis 5y ago
Slightly adjacent, fighting credit card disputes feels the same way. A company can prove without a doubt that it's a legitimate charge, only to have the case go to pre-arbitration; which in many cases is too costly to fight without certainty of winning.
joezydeco 5y ago
Some goods serve as an alternative currency, like bottles of Tide laundry detergent: https://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1/index1.html https://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1/...
- legitster 5y ago
  My wife introduced me to the world of underground baby formula. It's frankly shocking how many people she knows who make money off of it (either shoplifting, Medicaid fraud, or as a way of converting WIC into cash).
  - realitygrill 5y ago
    I would love to hear more about this, particularly the Medicaid fraud angle.
    - refurb 5y ago
      - get baby diagnosed with formula allergy - get Medicaid to pay for supply of $30-40/can hypoallergenic formula - sell hypoallergenic formula for $0.90 on the dollar - pocket cash
rot13xor 5y ago
Eventually all stores are going to require a membership or deposit before letting you enter, like Costco.
- legitster 5y ago
  I mean, you can just run into a Costco, grab something, and run out. No one can stop you. In Costco's favor, they don't have a lot of valuable things that you can just walk with that aren't just a cardboard voucher.
  - tintor 5y ago
    Costco sells jewelry and laptops.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      Yes, but are they where people can just pick them up, or are they in locked cabinets?
908B64B197 5y ago
> In a bad neighborhood it's not uncommon to lose over a million dollars a year. Then the store closes, then you get a food desert.
- zionic 5y ago
  Followed by a smug article decrying the entire situation from some smug blogger.
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    Not usually the entire situation - usually just lamenting greedy corporate fatcats rather than the literal inability to maintain a business based on the margins, volume, and shrinkage.
    - BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
      Why don’t these greedy wealth hoarders simply run their business at a loss? Are profits really everything to these fatcats? /s
carstenhag 5y ago
Why are they not allowed to restrain a shoplifter? In Germany, that's covered by the "anyone's" right: if you see someone commit a crime, you can detain/restrain them until the police arrives. Some restrictions apply, like for example having to watch the crime yourself etc but for shop security staff it's enough rights https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festnahme#Jedermann-Festnahme https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festnahme#Jedermann-Festnahme
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  They're allowed in a legal sense, but the store often orders security not to physically intervene because of the potential legal liability if either party is injured.
- DavidPeiffer 5y ago
  It's not necessarily that they can't legally do so, but it's against the policy of every single store. If you do so as an employee, you will most likely get fired. No amount of merchandise is worth risking an employees life. Healthcare is a mess over here, but we do generally have that part right. Restraining a shoplifter could lead to liability issues for the employer. For example, if the shoplifter injures the employee, there's a workplace injury that goes on the OSHA record, you have an employee who is out for some amount of time, it could increase insurance rates, and it could lead to the employee getting shot if the shoplifter were particularly violent. Additionally, if the shoplifter gets injured, they may sue the store for the injury they sustained. Most of the US does allow a citizens arrest to be performed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  Who's gonna detain some meth head with knife for minimum wage and risk getting killed for poverty wages?
  - bpodgursky 5y ago
    Honestly a lot of security guards would have fun subduing a guy like this (as heroically as possible), and that's why the stores have policies against it.

13of40 5y ago

I noticed my local Home Depot has done away with the security tag scanners at the front of the store, apparently in favor of a cluster of new cameras above all the exits. I wonder if we're headed for just having an AI watch everyone all the time in the store like the automatic-purchase grocery stores Amazon was setting up. Either that or they discovered that it was better for their bottom line to put real security around the power tools than bust people for stealing trivial things.

sjg007 5y ago
Ultimately high value things will get secured behind a clerk where you take a picture card of what you want to them. Stores will use cameras and AI to build a comprehensive case against someone or group and then notify the police. That will be enough for a warrant etc... Probably a startup or two in this space. I am sure home depot or CVS will invest in your series A.
- sjg007 5y ago
  Interestingly I was in Best Buy and this is what they’ve done.
DavidPeiffer 5y ago
From a month ago, they're working on some new methods where power tools won't work until they're activated at the register. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28035458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28035458

ericcholis 5y ago

Slightly adjacent, fighting credit card disputes feels the same way. A company can prove without a doubt that it's a legitimate charge, only to have the case go to pre-arbitration; which in many cases is too costly to fight without certainty of winning.

joezydeco 5y ago

Some goods serve as an alternative currency, like bottles of Tide laundry detergent: https://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1/index1.html https://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1/...

legitster 5y ago
My wife introduced me to the world of underground baby formula. It's frankly shocking how many people she knows who make money off of it (either shoplifting, Medicaid fraud, or as a way of converting WIC into cash).
- realitygrill 5y ago
  I would love to hear more about this, particularly the Medicaid fraud angle.
  - refurb 5y ago
    - get baby diagnosed with formula allergy - get Medicaid to pay for supply of $30-40/can hypoallergenic formula - sell hypoallergenic formula for $0.90 on the dollar - pocket cash

rot13xor 5y ago

Eventually all stores are going to require a membership or deposit before letting you enter, like Costco.

legitster 5y ago
I mean, you can just run into a Costco, grab something, and run out. No one can stop you. In Costco's favor, they don't have a lot of valuable things that you can just walk with that aren't just a cardboard voucher.
- tintor 5y ago
  Costco sells jewelry and laptops.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Yes, but are they where people can just pick them up, or are they in locked cabinets?

908B64B197 5y ago

> In a bad neighborhood it's not uncommon to lose over a million dollars a year. Then the store closes, then you get a food desert.

zionic 5y ago
Followed by a smug article decrying the entire situation from some smug blogger.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  Not usually the entire situation - usually just lamenting greedy corporate fatcats rather than the literal inability to maintain a business based on the margins, volume, and shrinkage.
  - BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
    Why don’t these greedy wealth hoarders simply run their business at a loss? Are profits really everything to these fatcats? /s

carstenhag 5y ago

Why are they not allowed to restrain a shoplifter? In Germany, that's covered by the "anyone's" right: if you see someone commit a crime, you can detain/restrain them until the police arrives. Some restrictions apply, like for example having to watch the crime yourself etc but for shop security staff it's enough rights https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festnahme#Jedermann-Festnahme https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festnahme#Jedermann-Festnahme

bpodgursky 5y ago
They're allowed in a legal sense, but the store often orders security not to physically intervene because of the potential legal liability if either party is injured.
DavidPeiffer 5y ago
It's not necessarily that they can't legally do so, but it's against the policy of every single store. If you do so as an employee, you will most likely get fired. No amount of merchandise is worth risking an employees life. Healthcare is a mess over here, but we do generally have that part right. Restraining a shoplifter could lead to liability issues for the employer. For example, if the shoplifter injures the employee, there's a workplace injury that goes on the OSHA record, you have an employee who is out for some amount of time, it could increase insurance rates, and it could lead to the employee getting shot if the shoplifter were particularly violent. Additionally, if the shoplifter gets injured, they may sue the store for the injury they sustained. Most of the US does allow a citizens arrest to be performed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest
SavantIdiot 5y ago
Who's gonna detain some meth head with knife for minimum wage and risk getting killed for poverty wages?
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  Honestly a lot of security guards would have fun subduing a guy like this (as heroically as possible), and that's why the stores have policies against it.