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Every well-educated person (i.e. desirable for immigration) I've ever met has found the Scandinavian countries attractive as a target. The social safety nets ar

Every well-educated person (i.e. desirable for immigration) I've ever met has found the Scandinavian countries attractive as a target. The social safety nets are very good, public infrastructure is great and child support is also uniquely present (e.g. free schooling). These are things that come with high taxes and if someone passed even high school they understand this. An important aside is that I don't really associate with the FAANG crowd, because I don't agree with them on ideological grounds and because I don't work for such a company. Perhaps among those people taxes seem more evil, especially given the fact that they are okay with working for companies that are not exactly doing good for society.

pembrook 5y ago
I’m not arguing the social safety net is bad, but the issue is, it ends up creating weird incentives. For example, no successful business owner on earth who isn’t already there, would ever choose to re-locate to the nordics. That’s not great. Also, by creating a low risk environment, instead of freeing people to take more career risks, it ironically trains people to take even less risk. This results in reduced variance in outcomes. A generally homogenous, no growth country. No matter if you think FAANG is evil, they’re going to continue dominating European lives unless you have talent and capital taking risk to innovate alternatives, and build your vision of a better world. Unfortunately, in shrinking the possible variance in outcomes, the nordics become the best place on earth to be below-average, with exceptional success due to risk taking being penalized. It’s like begging your best talent to leave. Not everybody will, but some do. So you have no top talent immigrating, and some top talent leaving every year. Over time you can see how that’s a dangerous trend.
- kirsebaer 5y ago
  I'm in Oslo now. There is an active start-up scene here. I have lots of Norwegian friends who have started businesses or non-profits. I know of people who started a tech business in SV and then moved back home to Norway for the quality of life. The safety-net gives you the ability to take risks, without risking your healthcare or your children's future. There is very little poverty and crime here, compared to SF. Public services work. If you go to a shop or restaurant, it feels good knowing that the people working there are making a living wage with 5 weeks vacation, etc. Norway has more $-millionaires per capita than the US: https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU
- bjourne 5y ago
  The Nordic countries aren't all the same and most people are not driven by a desire to maximize their salary. I have had lots and lots of colleagues who were immigrants so attracting foreign talent is not the issue. Not everyone want to live in Sweden because it is cold and people can be unfriendly. Low salaries is very low on peoples' list of complaints.
- pvaldes 5y ago
  > you have no top talent immigrating, and some top talent leaving... that’s a dangerous trend. I wouldn't worry too much by that. Is not uncommon to spot some really talented people among immigrants, and people can learn fast in the correct environment. On the other hand sometimes there are fakers among top talented people or some experts lose a lot of shine when moved to a strange/distracting/hostile environment where they didn't grow

pembrook 5y ago

I’m not arguing the social safety net is bad, but the issue is, it ends up creating weird incentives. For example, no successful business owner on earth who isn’t already there, would ever choose to re-locate to the nordics. That’s not great. Also, by creating a low risk environment, instead of freeing people to take more career risks, it ironically trains people to take even less risk. This results in reduced variance in outcomes. A generally homogenous, no growth country. No matter if you think FAANG is evil, they’re going to continue dominating European lives unless you have talent and capital taking risk to innovate alternatives, and build your vision of a better world. Unfortunately, in shrinking the possible variance in outcomes, the nordics become the best place on earth to be below-average, with exceptional success due to risk taking being penalized. It’s like begging your best talent to leave. Not everybody will, but some do. So you have no top talent immigrating, and some top talent leaving every year. Over time you can see how that’s a dangerous trend.

kirsebaer 5y ago
I'm in Oslo now. There is an active start-up scene here. I have lots of Norwegian friends who have started businesses or non-profits. I know of people who started a tech business in SV and then moved back home to Norway for the quality of life. The safety-net gives you the ability to take risks, without risking your healthcare or your children's future. There is very little poverty and crime here, compared to SF. Public services work. If you go to a shop or restaurant, it feels good knowing that the people working there are making a living wage with 5 weeks vacation, etc. Norway has more $-millionaires per capita than the US: https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU https://youtu.be/A9UmdY0E8hU
bjourne 5y ago
The Nordic countries aren't all the same and most people are not driven by a desire to maximize their salary. I have had lots and lots of colleagues who were immigrants so attracting foreign talent is not the issue. Not everyone want to live in Sweden because it is cold and people can be unfriendly. Low salaries is very low on peoples' list of complaints.
pvaldes 5y ago
> you have no top talent immigrating, and some top talent leaving... that’s a dangerous trend. I wouldn't worry too much by that. Is not uncommon to spot some really talented people among immigrants, and people can learn fast in the correct environment. On the other hand sometimes there are fakers among top talented people or some experts lose a lot of shine when moved to a strange/distracting/hostile environment where they didn't grow