6 ms·

Southpaw here! I'd never buy a laptop without a number pad. The track pad being off-center is also good. Gaming? 78462 make for the best movement, and the numb

by caslon 5y ago

Southpaw here! I'd never buy a laptop without a number pad. The track pad being off-center is also good. Gaming? 78462 make for the best movement, and the number pad also has seven non-numerical buttons to bind things to. It also puts your index finger right next to lENTER, which is so useful for games that make use of it. Programming? Bind the buttons to commonly-used UNIX programs to make for a better IDE than an IDE. Calculating? So nice to have an ergonomic numerical input.

albertgoeswoof 5y ago
Yes the numpad comes in useful when I’m calculating all day
- luc_ 5y ago
  irony over text..?
- LAC-Tech 5y ago
  If you were a real hacker you'd use it for playing roguelikes in the terminal.
  - suprfsat 5y ago
    hjklyubn
    - viraptor 5y ago
      That would take over the usual [k]ick, [l]ook, etc.
  - pmontra 5y ago
    Yeah, that was the last time I used a keypad. I really hate mine. I don't have a use case for it and because of it I have to slide the laptop to the right, to align the keyboard with my vertical axis of symmetry. I understand that many people need it and many others don't. I wish manufacturers had an option for keyboards without the number pad. I'd pay an extra for it.
- ImprovedSilence 5y ago
  I have a nice ten-keyless mech keyboard that I love to use for programming. However I really do miss having a number pad more than I thought I would.
  - Haegin 5y ago
    If it's programmable you could set up a layer with a number pad on it. I've done that with mine and basically never use the actual number keys now.
    - bbojan 5y ago
      Yup, I did this and it's great. I also ended up assigning the thumb key to 0, since I've noticed it's used more often than other digits (and also you have to fit it somewhere, since the other ones are in a 3x3 grid).
Cederfjard 5y ago
> Programming? Bind the buttons to commonly-used UNIX programs to make for a better IDE than an IDE. Mind sharing some examples of your bindings?
- caslon 5y ago
  My favorite (and the one I find myself getting the most joy from using) is /, which I have bound to tangle and weave my currently-open project (dbus, yay) into /tmp, apply a stylesheet to the output of it, determine languages used within, embed Emscripten-compiled interpreters for the languages being used into the generated pages (its file system API is incredible, "I Can't Believe It's Not UNIX!"-worthy), and launch a Mozilla instance so I can interactively play with/debug my programs while reading their documentation in the same window. If this sounds like a convoluted REPL with fancier in-line documentation, you're kind of right. It's basically just interactive and automated literate programming, though. The rest of my bindings range from pretty simple (running an open project's tests, displaying results from the last 10 commits, etc.) to significantly more complex. I have a few different xkb layouts depending on what I'm doing, and a few different languages get dedicated ones, but for the ones I most-commonly use, they all share one.
  - Cederfjard 5y ago
    Thanks!
amelius 5y ago
Ok, so the conclusion is that the keyboard should be customizable.
- caslon 5y ago
  No, the conclusion is that more buttons are always better. You can always customize a keyboard with minimal effort, unless you're on a really bad operating system, like any of the proprietary ones.
  - Fnoord 5y ago
    > No, the conclusion is that more buttons are always better. Not really. There was a time where laptops, especially 15", had front speakers. If the choice is that or numpad, I pick front speakers. Its a bummer smartphones don't have them anymore these days. More keys might seem like a no-brainer, but its always also less is more and keys you don't use are useless keys. As power user, it seems (re)binding of keys is in order anyway. 1080p and numpad is a downgrade from my MBP 2015. It also doesn't specify much about the AMD graphics card. I'd rather get a modular laptop instead, but with 1440p minimum. The thing with a trackpad centered to left (let alone its gonna be as good as a Magic Trackpad 2 by Apple from 2015 and onward), is that if you use your right hand your arm can get hurt if you let it rest. And, you should let your arms rest. Also, the arm is in the way. Apple had a neat solution to it: large(r) trackpad (though I prefer the previous one, centered). But I was never in the market for this because if I order something like this from USA I get to pay a large amount of taxes on top of it cause the price never includes tax. Let me know if its available in Europe and I'll have a look, but the above remain serious concerns so I doubt it.
    - SilverRed 5y ago
      The iphone has a front speaker. The top one is a loudspeaker and a normal phone one. And they tune it so when in landscape I don't really notice the difference between the front and outwards speaker. Phone speakers have come a long way since samsung was putting them on the back of the phones..
    - 5y ago
Shorel 5y ago
Just put the damn thing in the middle.
- stonecharioteer 5y ago
  I'd actually be into that. I come from the split keyboards world. Put your god damned numpad in the middle and give me ortholinear keys on each side. I will throw money at you today.
  - atatatat 5y ago
    > I come from the split keyboards world. What terrifying place is that? (I'm just poking fun, but seriously: where?)
    - rgoulter 5y ago
      Generally, hobbyist mechanical keyboards that you assemble by buying or fabricating a PCB, and doing a bit of soldering. Most designs have relatively easy soldering. Some hobbyist shops may offer assembly services. If you don't want to solder, ZSA labs have a "moonlander" keyboard that looks quite nice, for a premium price. If you're not put off by soldering, then some popular split keyboards would be the Corne (also known as "crkbd"), Kyria, lily58, Sofle. There are also designs which are closer to a normal keyboard, like the ultimate hacking keyboard. (But, personally, I don't understand why you'd spend so much money on a keyboard and have it be asymmetric).
      - masklinn 5y ago
        Surely the origins of split keyboards are ergo spaces not hobbyist?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        least 5y ago
ben-schaaf 5y ago
Another big one is Blender; I don't think I could use it without a numpad.
- grifball 5y ago
  You can buy a usb numpad for blender. I did this to save money on a mechanical keyboard.
  - orthoxerox 5y ago
    Was it a mechanical numpad?
- slezyr 5y ago
  You can, there is a setting for such cases https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/input.html#keyboard https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preference...
nextlevelwizard 5y ago
>gaming Why skip 5 to use 2 instead? And you also have extra keys around WASD to bind to. What makes numpad keys any different? For lefties who use mouse with left hand you can have same keys on the right hand side but hat varies (for me equal keys would be plöä) >programming Are all of your function keys already populated? And if you are going to move your hand to numpad why skip over insert, home, page up/down, and end? >calculating Well there you have me. 20 years ago when I was manually inserting PSU serial numbers into excel numpad was real nice, but I can't remember last time I had to input numbers like that. My current keyboard has numpad, but only thing I've used it in years was as abort button for some bots.
- caslon 5y ago
  > Why skip 5 to use 2 instead? Walking backwards usually is slower in video games, so you can bind 5 to something you use more commonly. 7 is autorun. 5 makes a great button to set for fishing or your most-critical spell. > And you also have extra keys around WASD to bind to. What makes numpad keys any different? For lefties who use mouse with left hand you can have same keys on the right hand side but hat varies (for me equal keys would be plöä) The left side of the keyboard has more buttons, and you use those for complex combinations in video games, which leaves the number pad in a unique spot of being a "quick access" bar. > Are all of your function keys already populated? And if you are going to move your hand to numpad why skip over insert, home, page up/down, and end? On a good laptop keyboard, insert, home, end, pgup and pgdn are all directly above the number pad. This gives you extra buttons that are just a little out-of-the-way, but it doesn't make it so you have to reach your hands over them to reach the number pad. On the best laptop keyboard I've ever used, literally every button was just in a grid, with a few smaller (but still grid-fitting) buttons mixed in, like the arrow keys and function keys. But yes, my function keys are already populated. > Well there you have me. 20 years ago when I was manually inserting PSU serial numbers into excel numpad was real nice, but I can't remember last time I had to input numbers like that. Anecdotally, I use calculators of various sorts as a way of verification while programming; a lot of the problems I find myself drawn to are close to abstracted math (as are most things when you aren't a web programmer), and it's really useful to be able to jot down an equation and verify you've handled the problem right before you commit to it. > My current keyboard has numpad, but only thing I've used it in years was as abort button for some bots. You should bind the buttons to be useful to you! It's very nice once you've done so.

by caslon 5y ago

albertgoeswoof 5y ago

Yes the numpad comes in useful when I’m calculating all day

luc_ 5y ago
irony over text..?
LAC-Tech 5y ago
If you were a real hacker you'd use it for playing roguelikes in the terminal.
- suprfsat 5y ago
  hjklyubn
  - viraptor 5y ago
    That would take over the usual [k]ick, [l]ook, etc.
- pmontra 5y ago
  Yeah, that was the last time I used a keypad. I really hate mine. I don't have a use case for it and because of it I have to slide the laptop to the right, to align the keyboard with my vertical axis of symmetry. I understand that many people need it and many others don't. I wish manufacturers had an option for keyboards without the number pad. I'd pay an extra for it.
ImprovedSilence 5y ago
I have a nice ten-keyless mech keyboard that I love to use for programming. However I really do miss having a number pad more than I thought I would.
- Haegin 5y ago
  If it's programmable you could set up a layer with a number pad on it. I've done that with mine and basically never use the actual number keys now.
  - bbojan 5y ago
    Yup, I did this and it's great. I also ended up assigning the thumb key to 0, since I've noticed it's used more often than other digits (and also you have to fit it somewhere, since the other ones are in a 3x3 grid).

Cederfjard 5y ago

> Programming? Bind the buttons to commonly-used UNIX programs to make for a better IDE than an IDE. Mind sharing some examples of your bindings?

caslon 5y ago
My favorite (and the one I find myself getting the most joy from using) is /, which I have bound to tangle and weave my currently-open project (dbus, yay) into /tmp, apply a stylesheet to the output of it, determine languages used within, embed Emscripten-compiled interpreters for the languages being used into the generated pages (its file system API is incredible, "I Can't Believe It's Not UNIX!"-worthy), and launch a Mozilla instance so I can interactively play with/debug my programs while reading their documentation in the same window. If this sounds like a convoluted REPL with fancier in-line documentation, you're kind of right. It's basically just interactive and automated literate programming, though. The rest of my bindings range from pretty simple (running an open project's tests, displaying results from the last 10 commits, etc.) to significantly more complex. I have a few different xkb layouts depending on what I'm doing, and a few different languages get dedicated ones, but for the ones I most-commonly use, they all share one.
- Cederfjard 5y ago
  Thanks!

amelius 5y ago

Ok, so the conclusion is that the keyboard should be customizable.

caslon 5y ago
No, the conclusion is that more buttons are always better. You can always customize a keyboard with minimal effort, unless you're on a really bad operating system, like any of the proprietary ones.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  > No, the conclusion is that more buttons are always better. Not really. There was a time where laptops, especially 15", had front speakers. If the choice is that or numpad, I pick front speakers. Its a bummer smartphones don't have them anymore these days. More keys might seem like a no-brainer, but its always also less is more and keys you don't use are useless keys. As power user, it seems (re)binding of keys is in order anyway. 1080p and numpad is a downgrade from my MBP 2015. It also doesn't specify much about the AMD graphics card. I'd rather get a modular laptop instead, but with 1440p minimum. The thing with a trackpad centered to left (let alone its gonna be as good as a Magic Trackpad 2 by Apple from 2015 and onward), is that if you use your right hand your arm can get hurt if you let it rest. And, you should let your arms rest. Also, the arm is in the way. Apple had a neat solution to it: large(r) trackpad (though I prefer the previous one, centered). But I was never in the market for this because if I order something like this from USA I get to pay a large amount of taxes on top of it cause the price never includes tax. Let me know if its available in Europe and I'll have a look, but the above remain serious concerns so I doubt it.
  - SilverRed 5y ago
    The iphone has a front speaker. The top one is a loudspeaker and a normal phone one. And they tune it so when in landscape I don't really notice the difference between the front and outwards speaker. Phone speakers have come a long way since samsung was putting them on the back of the phones..
  - 5y ago

Shorel 5y ago

Just put the damn thing in the middle.

stonecharioteer 5y ago
I'd actually be into that. I come from the split keyboards world. Put your god damned numpad in the middle and give me ortholinear keys on each side. I will throw money at you today.
- atatatat 5y ago
  > I come from the split keyboards world. What terrifying place is that? (I'm just poking fun, but seriously: where?)
  - rgoulter 5y ago
    Generally, hobbyist mechanical keyboards that you assemble by buying or fabricating a PCB, and doing a bit of soldering. Most designs have relatively easy soldering. Some hobbyist shops may offer assembly services. If you don't want to solder, ZSA labs have a "moonlander" keyboard that looks quite nice, for a premium price. If you're not put off by soldering, then some popular split keyboards would be the Corne (also known as "crkbd"), Kyria, lily58, Sofle. There are also designs which are closer to a normal keyboard, like the ultimate hacking keyboard. (But, personally, I don't understand why you'd spend so much money on a keyboard and have it be asymmetric).
    - masklinn 5y ago
      Surely the origins of split keyboards are ergo spaces not hobbyist?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - least 5y ago

ben-schaaf 5y ago

Another big one is Blender; I don't think I could use it without a numpad.

grifball 5y ago
You can buy a usb numpad for blender. I did this to save money on a mechanical keyboard.
- orthoxerox 5y ago
  Was it a mechanical numpad?
slezyr 5y ago
You can, there is a setting for such cases https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preferences/input.html#keyboard https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/editors/preference...

nextlevelwizard 5y ago

>gaming Why skip 5 to use 2 instead? And you also have extra keys around WASD to bind to. What makes numpad keys any different? For lefties who use mouse with left hand you can have same keys on the right hand side but hat varies (for me equal keys would be plöä) >programming Are all of your function keys already populated? And if you are going to move your hand to numpad why skip over insert, home, page up/down, and end? >calculating Well there you have me. 20 years ago when I was manually inserting PSU serial numbers into excel numpad was real nice, but I can't remember last time I had to input numbers like that. My current keyboard has numpad, but only thing I've used it in years was as abort button for some bots.

caslon 5y ago
> Why skip 5 to use 2 instead? Walking backwards usually is slower in video games, so you can bind 5 to something you use more commonly. 7 is autorun. 5 makes a great button to set for fishing or your most-critical spell. > And you also have extra keys around WASD to bind to. What makes numpad keys any different? For lefties who use mouse with left hand you can have same keys on the right hand side but hat varies (for me equal keys would be plöä) The left side of the keyboard has more buttons, and you use those for complex combinations in video games, which leaves the number pad in a unique spot of being a "quick access" bar. > Are all of your function keys already populated? And if you are going to move your hand to numpad why skip over insert, home, page up/down, and end? On a good laptop keyboard, insert, home, end, pgup and pgdn are all directly above the number pad. This gives you extra buttons that are just a little out-of-the-way, but it doesn't make it so you have to reach your hands over them to reach the number pad. On the best laptop keyboard I've ever used, literally every button was just in a grid, with a few smaller (but still grid-fitting) buttons mixed in, like the arrow keys and function keys. But yes, my function keys are already populated. > Well there you have me. 20 years ago when I was manually inserting PSU serial numbers into excel numpad was real nice, but I can't remember last time I had to input numbers like that. Anecdotally, I use calculators of various sorts as a way of verification while programming; a lot of the problems I find myself drawn to are close to abstracted math (as are most things when you aren't a web programmer), and it's really useful to be able to jot down an equation and verify you've handled the problem right before you commit to it. > My current keyboard has numpad, but only thing I've used it in years was as abort button for some bots. You should bind the buttons to be useful to you! It's very nice once you've done so.