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Ah, Mr. Fugger, richest man in the world, the Catholic Church borrowed so much from him (and fleeced their followers so much in order to pay him back) that Mart

Ah, Mr. Fugger, richest man in the world, the Catholic Church borrowed so much from him (and fleeced their followers so much in order to pay him back) that Martin Luther got so mad and nailed his manifesto to a church door and created Protestantism: https://nypost.com/2015/07/26/meet-historys-richest-man-who-changed-christianity/ https://nypost.com/2015/07/26/meet-historys-richest-man-who-... I wonder if his name is the origin of the swearword...

morpheos137 5y ago
St. Peter's Basillica wasn't cheap. What Luther was specifically mad about was selling indulgences (certificates of forgivness for certain sins) to pay off Church debt.
- throwaway14356 5y ago
  are those transferable assets? i want one to mix in with the framed diplomas
- coldcode 5y ago
  Indulgences were not the big money maker for people at the top, it was selling benefices that made Popes and other church leaders rich, i.e. selling Church offices for huge sums (hey you want your nephew to be a Bishop or Cardinal, sending in X ducats). Why fleece poor people when you can fleece the rich, they have all the money.
  - dmurray 5y ago
    Well, yeah, but you wanted your nephew to be a bishop or a cardinal not just for the prestige, but because he could sell or rent lower positions in his own diocese, or collect indulgences himself. It's feudalism all the way down.
belter 5y ago
"To be eligible to live in the village, applicants need to meet three basic criteria: they must demonstrate financial need, have lived in Augsburg for at least two years and be of Catholic faith." Is this legal? I mean the faith part...
- vxNsr 5y ago
  Why not? You can do that in the US too.
- RuggedPineapple 5y ago
  Absolutely. The German constitution mandates students be able to obtain religious education in public school as part of regular curriculum, prohibits the government from interfering in any religious organization and mandates that the government collect member tithes as part of tax collection for any religious group registered as a PLC at their request. The ruling party of Germany is expressly religious, the Christian Democratic Union. There's religious pluralism in Germany and all religions have the same benefits, but the idea of what those religions may do is not so intuitive from us in North America.
  - cat199 5y ago
    > the idea of what those religions may do is not so intuitive from us in North America .. pretty sure you can set up religious sponsored/focused housing in NA as well
  - belter 5y ago
    But besides the money collection there are also the tax exemptions right? It looks lovely... "The foundation deed specified that the housing complex was to exist “in perpetuity” and to be “further developed.” The philosophy behind it can be summarized as being to “provide assistance, not charity, to people in need so they can help themselves.” There are a total of nine foundations established by the Fugger family in Augsburg that have been in continuous existence since the 16th century. In addition to the Fuggerei, there are medical facilities, an infirmary, and a foundation to contribute to the salvation of the Fugger family, among others. According to an inscription on a tablet displayed at the Fuggerei, the Fugger family established the foundation to “reimburse God the money that he has generously bestowed upon the family.” "Paupers or beggars are not eligible. A person that has been accepted for residence is required to say three daily prayers for the Fugger family" https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2021/08/500-year-anniversary-of-the-fuggerei-the-oldest-social-housing-complex-in-the-world/ https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2021/08/500-year-anniversary-of-th... Its going for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger_family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger_family And many foundations: https://www.fugger.de/en/foundations https://www.fugger.de/en/foundations I am sorry ...the business man in me...every time I see the word foundation I see only one thing. Only business vehicle where you are tax exempt... while at the same time still benefiting from the foundation assets. "Forget about the Gates Foundation. The world’s biggest charity owns IKEA — which is not only devoted to interior design." https://medium.com/@jurgeng/ikeas-tax-scheme-a-corporate-structure-designed-to-facilitate-profit-shifting-and-tax-avoidance-798caf842fb6 https://medium.com/@jurgeng/ikeas-tax-scheme-a-corporate-str... https://ikeafoundation.org/ https://ikeafoundation.org/
bernardom 5y ago
The book The Richest Man Who Ever Lived is riveting. The guy bankrolled kings, wrote a collections letter to the Holy Roman Emperor, etc. etc.
- prox 5y ago
  Who are the bankrollers of today? Do they still exist?
  - jdavis703 5y ago
    They are nation-states and multinational corporations with market values that exceed the GDP of smaller countries.
    - adventured 5y ago
      > market values that exceed the GDP of smaller countries Revenue that exceeds the GDP of nations. Walmart = $566 billion. Good enough for #25 among nations, larger than Nigeria or Thailand, just below Belgium and Poland. Amazon = $443 billion. Equal to #30 among nations. Nearly identical to Israel or Norway, and ahead of the Philippines or Egypt. Berkshire Hathaway = $365 billion. Equal to #40 among nations. Comparable to Singapore or Vietnam, just below Denmark. Apple = $347 billion. Equal to #41 among nations. Larger than Pakistan, Finland, Chile and just below Bangladesh. CVS = $278 billion. Equal to #48 among nations. Comparable to Czechia and larger than Portugal, New Zealand. UnitedHeath = $270 billion. Equal to #49 among nations. Just below Romania or Colombia. Google = $220 billion. Equal to #52 among nations. Comparable to Greece or Peru. Microsoft = $168 billion. Equal to #56 among nations. Just below Hungary or Kazakhstan, ahead of Ukraine or Algeria.
      - zaarn 5y ago
        For comparison, Fugger's net worth today at the peak would have been 400 billion $. Not revenue, net worth. Also keep in mind that revenue is not market value nor is it wealth/net worth.
coldcode 5y ago
Luther did not first nail his thesis to the door, he mailed them first, and had no intention of starting anything. Nailing things to a church door was common practice so that others could read things (no newspapers). Also Luther was only one of thousands of priests, bishops and monks who complained the Popes at the time were ignoring the faith and the people (which they were). He didn't invent Protestantism, he's just more famous than the others.
- javert 5y ago
  Complaining to the Pope is not equivalent to taking the further enormous leap of breaking away from the Catholic Church. I don't know the history and would love for someone to fill me in, but I'm just not convinced that you are right to downplay Luther's role.
- AlanSE 5y ago
  I just finished reading this book, and the point I'm making comes almost directly from that. https://www.twelvebooks.com/titles/patrick-wyman/the-verge/9781538701171/ https://www.twelvebooks.com/titles/patrick-wyman/the-verge/9... Luther grew up in a mining community, where people where crass and confrontational. He had a frank, direct, and powerful rhetorical style that was forged in that environment. While he had several career options, a lightning strike made him get superstitious and become a monk. He was good at it. Take these 2 things - book smarts and an argumentative edge, and now a new twist enters the story... The printing press! The printers were in it to make money. His impact on history wasn't nailing a thing to a church door. The guy ran circles around the Church defenders because he replied quick, effectively, and he was the darling of the printers who controlled the medium. It's not just about having the best argument, it's about fitting the format of the medium. Luther would deliver retorts in the space and time frame that the printers wanted. You can easily imagine how this would drown out the defenders of the Church (especially since it's salacious) and impact public opinion. But that phase only lasted so-many years. Before long, the situation got out of his control, and that's kind of when you might say Protestantism started.
  - krsdcbl 5y ago
spywaregorilla 5y ago
What swear word?
- 52-6F-62 5y ago
  "That Fugger kicked me out of the housing project because I missed my last 3 eucharists"
  - zip1234 5y ago
    According to the wikipedia article, the last name was actually spelled "Fucker"
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - lioeters 5y ago
      Indeed! > The founder of the family was Johann Fugger, a weaver at Graben, near the Swabian Free City of Augsburg. The last name was originally spelled "Fucker". > The first recorded reference to the family comes when Johann's son, also named Johann (or Hans), moves to Augsburg in 1367, with the local tax register laconically noting Fucker advenit, "Fugger has arrived". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger_family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger_family
      - FabHK 5y ago
        > Fucker advenit Strikes me as an excellent name for a Christian rock band.
      - spywaregorilla 5y ago
        He looks like bezos
lqet 5y ago
> At the time of his death in 1525, Fugger's personal wealth was equivalent to 2% of the GDP of Europe. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Fugger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Fugger
dahart 5y ago
> I wonder if his name is the origin of the swearword… Interesting thought, but I don’t think so. The F word predates Mr Fugger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck#Early_usage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck#Early_usage
- lqet 5y ago
  Wiktionary lists as an interesting possible origin of the German equivalent "ficken" the sound it makes when two things rub against each other ("fffppp, fffppp, fffppp"). [0] [0] https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/ficken https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/ficken
stronglikedan 5y ago
> I wonder if his name is the origin of the swearword... Maybe it was his mother.
- giardini 5y ago
  "Mother Fugger'? How canst thous speak thus?

morpheos137 5y ago

St. Peter's Basillica wasn't cheap. What Luther was specifically mad about was selling indulgences (certificates of forgivness for certain sins) to pay off Church debt.

throwaway14356 5y ago
are those transferable assets? i want one to mix in with the framed diplomas
coldcode 5y ago
Indulgences were not the big money maker for people at the top, it was selling benefices that made Popes and other church leaders rich, i.e. selling Church offices for huge sums (hey you want your nephew to be a Bishop or Cardinal, sending in X ducats). Why fleece poor people when you can fleece the rich, they have all the money.
- dmurray 5y ago
  Well, yeah, but you wanted your nephew to be a bishop or a cardinal not just for the prestige, but because he could sell or rent lower positions in his own diocese, or collect indulgences himself. It's feudalism all the way down.

belter 5y ago

"To be eligible to live in the village, applicants need to meet three basic criteria: they must demonstrate financial need, have lived in Augsburg for at least two years and be of Catholic faith." Is this legal? I mean the faith part...

vxNsr 5y ago
Why not? You can do that in the US too.
RuggedPineapple 5y ago
Absolutely. The German constitution mandates students be able to obtain religious education in public school as part of regular curriculum, prohibits the government from interfering in any religious organization and mandates that the government collect member tithes as part of tax collection for any religious group registered as a PLC at their request. The ruling party of Germany is expressly religious, the Christian Democratic Union. There's religious pluralism in Germany and all religions have the same benefits, but the idea of what those religions may do is not so intuitive from us in North America.
- cat199 5y ago
  > the idea of what those religions may do is not so intuitive from us in North America .. pretty sure you can set up religious sponsored/focused housing in NA as well
- belter 5y ago
  But besides the money collection there are also the tax exemptions right? It looks lovely... "The foundation deed specified that the housing complex was to exist “in perpetuity” and to be “further developed.” The philosophy behind it can be summarized as being to “provide assistance, not charity, to people in need so they can help themselves.” There are a total of nine foundations established by the Fugger family in Augsburg that have been in continuous existence since the 16th century. In addition to the Fuggerei, there are medical facilities, an infirmary, and a foundation to contribute to the salvation of the Fugger family, among others. According to an inscription on a tablet displayed at the Fuggerei, the Fugger family established the foundation to “reimburse God the money that he has generously bestowed upon the family.” "Paupers or beggars are not eligible. A person that has been accepted for residence is required to say three daily prayers for the Fugger family" https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2021/08/500-year-anniversary-of-the-fuggerei-the-oldest-social-housing-complex-in-the-world/ https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2021/08/500-year-anniversary-of-th... Its going for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger_family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger_family And many foundations: https://www.fugger.de/en/foundations https://www.fugger.de/en/foundations I am sorry ...the business man in me...every time I see the word foundation I see only one thing. Only business vehicle where you are tax exempt... while at the same time still benefiting from the foundation assets. "Forget about the Gates Foundation. The world’s biggest charity owns IKEA — which is not only devoted to interior design." https://medium.com/@jurgeng/ikeas-tax-scheme-a-corporate-structure-designed-to-facilitate-profit-shifting-and-tax-avoidance-798caf842fb6 https://medium.com/@jurgeng/ikeas-tax-scheme-a-corporate-str... https://ikeafoundation.org/ https://ikeafoundation.org/

bernardom 5y ago

The book The Richest Man Who Ever Lived is riveting. The guy bankrolled kings, wrote a collections letter to the Holy Roman Emperor, etc. etc.

prox 5y ago
Who are the bankrollers of today? Do they still exist?
- jdavis703 5y ago
  They are nation-states and multinational corporations with market values that exceed the GDP of smaller countries.
  - adventured 5y ago
    > market values that exceed the GDP of smaller countries Revenue that exceeds the GDP of nations. Walmart = $566 billion. Good enough for #25 among nations, larger than Nigeria or Thailand, just below Belgium and Poland. Amazon = $443 billion. Equal to #30 among nations. Nearly identical to Israel or Norway, and ahead of the Philippines or Egypt. Berkshire Hathaway = $365 billion. Equal to #40 among nations. Comparable to Singapore or Vietnam, just below Denmark. Apple = $347 billion. Equal to #41 among nations. Larger than Pakistan, Finland, Chile and just below Bangladesh. CVS = $278 billion. Equal to #48 among nations. Comparable to Czechia and larger than Portugal, New Zealand. UnitedHeath = $270 billion. Equal to #49 among nations. Just below Romania or Colombia. Google = $220 billion. Equal to #52 among nations. Comparable to Greece or Peru. Microsoft = $168 billion. Equal to #56 among nations. Just below Hungary or Kazakhstan, ahead of Ukraine or Algeria.
    - zaarn 5y ago
      For comparison, Fugger's net worth today at the peak would have been 400 billion $. Not revenue, net worth. Also keep in mind that revenue is not market value nor is it wealth/net worth.

coldcode 5y ago

Luther did not first nail his thesis to the door, he mailed them first, and had no intention of starting anything. Nailing things to a church door was common practice so that others could read things (no newspapers). Also Luther was only one of thousands of priests, bishops and monks who complained the Popes at the time were ignoring the faith and the people (which they were). He didn't invent Protestantism, he's just more famous than the others.

javert 5y ago
Complaining to the Pope is not equivalent to taking the further enormous leap of breaking away from the Catholic Church. I don't know the history and would love for someone to fill me in, but I'm just not convinced that you are right to downplay Luther's role.
AlanSE 5y ago
I just finished reading this book, and the point I'm making comes almost directly from that. https://www.twelvebooks.com/titles/patrick-wyman/the-verge/9781538701171/ https://www.twelvebooks.com/titles/patrick-wyman/the-verge/9... Luther grew up in a mining community, where people where crass and confrontational. He had a frank, direct, and powerful rhetorical style that was forged in that environment. While he had several career options, a lightning strike made him get superstitious and become a monk. He was good at it. Take these 2 things - book smarts and an argumentative edge, and now a new twist enters the story... The printing press! The printers were in it to make money. His impact on history wasn't nailing a thing to a church door. The guy ran circles around the Church defenders because he replied quick, effectively, and he was the darling of the printers who controlled the medium. It's not just about having the best argument, it's about fitting the format of the medium. Luther would deliver retorts in the space and time frame that the printers wanted. You can easily imagine how this would drown out the defenders of the Church (especially since it's salacious) and impact public opinion. But that phase only lasted so-many years. Before long, the situation got out of his control, and that's kind of when you might say Protestantism started.
- krsdcbl 5y ago

spywaregorilla 5y ago

What swear word?

52-6F-62 5y ago
"That Fugger kicked me out of the housing project because I missed my last 3 eucharists"
- zip1234 5y ago
  According to the wikipedia article, the last name was actually spelled "Fucker"
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lioeters 5y ago
    Indeed! > The founder of the family was Johann Fugger, a weaver at Graben, near the Swabian Free City of Augsburg. The last name was originally spelled "Fucker". > The first recorded reference to the family comes when Johann's son, also named Johann (or Hans), moves to Augsburg in 1367, with the local tax register laconically noting Fucker advenit, "Fugger has arrived". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger_family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger_family
    - FabHK 5y ago
      > Fucker advenit Strikes me as an excellent name for a Christian rock band.
    - spywaregorilla 5y ago
      He looks like bezos

lqet 5y ago

> At the time of his death in 1525, Fugger's personal wealth was equivalent to 2% of the GDP of Europe. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Fugger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Fugger

dahart 5y ago

> I wonder if his name is the origin of the swearword… Interesting thought, but I don’t think so. The F word predates Mr Fugger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck#Early_usage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck#Early_usage

lqet 5y ago
Wiktionary lists as an interesting possible origin of the German equivalent "ficken" the sound it makes when two things rub against each other ("fffppp, fffppp, fffppp"). [0] [0] https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/ficken https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/ficken

stronglikedan 5y ago

> I wonder if his name is the origin of the swearword... Maybe it was his mother.

giardini 5y ago
"Mother Fugger'? How canst thous speak thus?