6 ms·

I agree wholeheartedly with the author. I also find this to be true of email clients. GMail reigns supreme, but there is pretty much no email client out there

I agree wholeheartedly with the author. I also find this to be true of email clients. GMail reigns supreme, but there is pretty much no email client out there that is: - A good UI/UX - Doesn't store your data in their cloud - Is cross-platform (even just iOS/OSX, but certainly not iOS/OSX/Windows/Android). Thunderbird is one of the only contenders here, and I find the UX of Thunderbird to be abysmal. I've started to kickoff a project to fill this space, but admittedly it's a big project and doomed for the shelf :/

Silhouette 5y ago
The problem with a lot of these applications today is that they work with the kind of information you want might want immediate access to from many devices. That means cloud-hosted options have a compelling advantage in convenience, which for many users will inevitably outweigh any security and privacy concerns. I would love for the FOSS community to come up with a simple, SOHO-friendly server/appliance to act as the central repository for information like messages and calendars and be accessible to all devices on the local network (or via VPN from outside). Then we could have some competition for favourable UIs without every application having to reinvent the wheel for all the back end protocols and formats. Sadly the experience of applications like Thunderbird suggests there isn't currently a critical mass of interest in working that way and most of the market is willing to tolerate the downsides of the cloud applications in exchange for better UIs and more convenience.
- hammyhavoc 5y ago
  Hypothetically, aggregating your email to a specific client hosted on your server then using JMAP (not IMAP!) would be what we are all waiting for. However, interest in JMAP isn't really there.
poetaster 5y ago
I'm probably mad but i like claws mail. I also use it for caldav meeting mails and as an rss feed reader.
elcomet 5y ago
I think mailspring is decent (definitely not perfect but at least the UI is prettier than thunderbird) But it's desktop only
- ssivark 5y ago
  IIUC, Mailspring (Nylas?) inserted their own cloud layer in between your device and a cloud email provider, to store email and provide "value added" features; so it's not cloud-free and requires trusting one more entity.
  - elcomet 5y ago
    I think they removed this but I'm not 100% sure
    - jamesgeck0 5y ago
      The Mailspring ID was made optional at the end of March. You do still need it if you want to use Mailspring Pro features that require their server.
  - louis-lau 5y ago
    Nylas did, yeah. Mailspring stores all email locally. Recently the requirement to sign in with a mailspring ID was removed entirely.
- jsilence 5y ago
  Interesting! Does it support CalDAV?
  - jamesgeck0 5y ago
    Nope. It does have a plug-in api, though.
    - hammyhavoc 5y ago
      For which there is almost nothing available for at present.
Closi 5y ago
Outlook is the obvious (paid) contender not mentioned. Great UI, you can connect to pretty much any email address (although works best with Exchange, but you don't have to host your mail on 365) and has native Windows, OSX, Android and iOS clients, all bundled in for about $6 per month. Plus if the company you work for has 365 you can usually use those licences for home too (5 device licence is standard per seat). Plus, for that $6 a month you also get Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote and 1TB of OneDrive space. I don't want to sound like a Microsoft shill, but 365 is a steal considering what you get for the cost. But it's not free.
- turbinerneiter 5y ago
  The experience on Linux is beyond terrible, all the MS webapps are hot garbage.
  - solarkraft 5y ago
    Compared to the desktop version Outlook for web is pure heaven.
  - MadcapJake 5y ago
    Totally opposite for me, outlook desktop is so slow, regularly crashes and has horrible patchwork of UI and the web client has been great, super fast and feels like a streamlined and unified evolution. Adding ics events is bizarre and annoying but other than that, i'll never go back.
  - pbedat 5y ago
    Wait until you have to deal with the admin web apps. To enable mail forwarding to another domain I had to install powershell and a plugin to install a plugin to allow forwarding in my org. Then there are times when it says : „To change this setting please enable the legacy UI“ And everything of this convoluted UX hell is documented in a dizzying but highly accurate documentation. I have to give them that! Switched to protonmail and not looking back.
    - firexcy 5y ago
guerrilla 5y ago
I don't find Thunderbird's UI too bad except the nonsensical search/filter dichotomy, but have you tried Evolution?
- taneq 5y ago
  The search 2 filter thing is useful in some circumstance, like when you’re not sure exactly what keywords you’re looking for. You use the main, fast search as a broad phase and then rapidly try a few filters to narrow it down. Of course, if there was a way to just reuse your search window instead of opening a new one that would also work… What really gets my goat is that there’s no way to make search go directly to the ‘show as email list’ view. I used to have an add on to do it but it’s no longer compatible.
  - account42 5y ago
    > I used to have an add on to do it but it’s no longer compatible. Pretty much the problem with anything Mozilla.
SilverRed 5y ago
Apparently half the issue is that IMAP sucks so much that any email client is bogged down in dealing with an ancient and bad API that they waste resources before getting to making it good. All the proprietary clients use a custom API which doesn't have to deal with legacy garbage.

Silhouette 5y ago

The problem with a lot of these applications today is that they work with the kind of information you want might want immediate access to from many devices. That means cloud-hosted options have a compelling advantage in convenience, which for many users will inevitably outweigh any security and privacy concerns. I would love for the FOSS community to come up with a simple, SOHO-friendly server/appliance to act as the central repository for information like messages and calendars and be accessible to all devices on the local network (or via VPN from outside). Then we could have some competition for favourable UIs without every application having to reinvent the wheel for all the back end protocols and formats. Sadly the experience of applications like Thunderbird suggests there isn't currently a critical mass of interest in working that way and most of the market is willing to tolerate the downsides of the cloud applications in exchange for better UIs and more convenience.

hammyhavoc 5y ago
Hypothetically, aggregating your email to a specific client hosted on your server then using JMAP (not IMAP!) would be what we are all waiting for. However, interest in JMAP isn't really there.

poetaster 5y ago

I'm probably mad but i like claws mail. I also use it for caldav meeting mails and as an rss feed reader.

elcomet 5y ago

I think mailspring is decent (definitely not perfect but at least the UI is prettier than thunderbird) But it's desktop only

ssivark 5y ago
IIUC, Mailspring (Nylas?) inserted their own cloud layer in between your device and a cloud email provider, to store email and provide "value added" features; so it's not cloud-free and requires trusting one more entity.
- elcomet 5y ago
  I think they removed this but I'm not 100% sure
  - jamesgeck0 5y ago
    The Mailspring ID was made optional at the end of March. You do still need it if you want to use Mailspring Pro features that require their server.
- louis-lau 5y ago
  Nylas did, yeah. Mailspring stores all email locally. Recently the requirement to sign in with a mailspring ID was removed entirely.
jsilence 5y ago
Interesting! Does it support CalDAV?
- jamesgeck0 5y ago
  Nope. It does have a plug-in api, though.
  - hammyhavoc 5y ago
    For which there is almost nothing available for at present.

Closi 5y ago

Outlook is the obvious (paid) contender not mentioned. Great UI, you can connect to pretty much any email address (although works best with Exchange, but you don't have to host your mail on 365) and has native Windows, OSX, Android and iOS clients, all bundled in for about $6 per month. Plus if the company you work for has 365 you can usually use those licences for home too (5 device licence is standard per seat). Plus, for that $6 a month you also get Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote and 1TB of OneDrive space. I don't want to sound like a Microsoft shill, but 365 is a steal considering what you get for the cost. But it's not free.

turbinerneiter 5y ago
The experience on Linux is beyond terrible, all the MS webapps are hot garbage.
- solarkraft 5y ago
  Compared to the desktop version Outlook for web is pure heaven.
- MadcapJake 5y ago
  Totally opposite for me, outlook desktop is so slow, regularly crashes and has horrible patchwork of UI and the web client has been great, super fast and feels like a streamlined and unified evolution. Adding ics events is bizarre and annoying but other than that, i'll never go back.
- pbedat 5y ago
  Wait until you have to deal with the admin web apps. To enable mail forwarding to another domain I had to install powershell and a plugin to install a plugin to allow forwarding in my org. Then there are times when it says : „To change this setting please enable the legacy UI“ And everything of this convoluted UX hell is documented in a dizzying but highly accurate documentation. I have to give them that! Switched to protonmail and not looking back.
  - firexcy 5y ago

guerrilla 5y ago

I don't find Thunderbird's UI too bad except the nonsensical search/filter dichotomy, but have you tried Evolution?

taneq 5y ago
The search 2 filter thing is useful in some circumstance, like when you’re not sure exactly what keywords you’re looking for. You use the main, fast search as a broad phase and then rapidly try a few filters to narrow it down. Of course, if there was a way to just reuse your search window instead of opening a new one that would also work… What really gets my goat is that there’s no way to make search go directly to the ‘show as email list’ view. I used to have an add on to do it but it’s no longer compatible.
- account42 5y ago
  > I used to have an add on to do it but it’s no longer compatible. Pretty much the problem with anything Mozilla.

SilverRed 5y ago

Apparently half the issue is that IMAP sucks so much that any email client is bogged down in dealing with an ancient and bad API that they waste resources before getting to making it good. All the proprietary clients use a custom API which doesn't have to deal with legacy garbage.