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For those that are mentally ill, and especially if they are violent, you force them to get the psychiatric help that they need. It's an unpopular opinion. But f

For those that are mentally ill, and especially if they are violent, you force them to get the psychiatric help that they need. It's an unpopular opinion. But frankly it's long overdue. For those that have the option to go to shelters, receive plenty of benefits (which SF most definitely provides) but prefer to be homeless, they need to be separated from major city areas where tourists, business people, and every day people want to live peacefully. I've seen enough of this the last few times I've been to SF and the bay area.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> you force them to get the psychiatric help that they need The problem is that there’s a long history of people labelling all sorts of things they don’t like as being a mental illness and using that as an excuse to use treatment as violence against them. We called homosexuality a mental illness until very recently and forced people to have violent treatment for it, for example.
- muh_gradle 5y ago
  If someone is having an episode and causing violence onto other people, we're not gonna look at this 20 years later and question if this isn't a mental illness. We absolutely know what the issue is here, and the situation that I described is not unheard of.
  - jawarner 5y ago
    Given that causing violence onto other people is illegal, I suppose what you're talking about could be thought of as a change to the prison system so that it's designed to improve the (mental) health of people committed, rather than just being punitive.
- dcolkitt 5y ago
  As an addendum, I’ll also add that the psychiatric system was the main Avenue for suppressing dissidents in the post-Brezhnev USSR.
rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
For better or for worse, homelessness in America can largely be attributed to Regan-era changes in policy [1] that prevented people from being committed against their will to psychiatric hospitals. It was done in the name of human rights, but naturally there were ulterior motives. It's time we reverted it. About 10% of humans have been addicts across most cultures throughout most of recorded human history, and they desperately need help (even if they claim don't want it). There should obviously be a ton of safeguards in place before committing someone against their will (e.g. 1 or 2 doctors should declare that the patient is unable to care for themselves and make rational decisions, assessment at regular intervals, ensuring the patient has the right to get a new doctor, etc.), but I don't think we'll be able to solve homelessness without it, because this is what we used to do differently prior to the homelessness epidemic, and this is what other nations have been doing. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanterman%E2%80%93Petris%E2%80%93Short_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanterman%E2%80%93Petris%E2%...
- trhway 5y ago
  >About 10% of humans have been addicts across most cultures throughout most of recorded human history, and they desperately need help (even if they claim don't want it). one can wonder why this trait hasn't been selected out by now (or some trait managing it hasn't appeared).
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
    Anecdotally, while 9/10 people with obsessive traits may crash and burn and possibly end up homeless, 1/10 may succeed spectacularly by becoming obsessed with something healthy-ish, or something that benefits people other than themselves. (Even if it's at the expense of their family and friends).
  - Talanes 5y ago
    How many addicts crash and burn before reproductive age?
  - jawarner 5y ago
    It's not a genetic issue, it's an ecological issue. I imagine almost all humans can become addicted to something or develop mental health issues under the right (wrong) circumstances.
nadagast 5y ago
100% this -- is this really an unpopular opinion?
- hack-news 5y ago
  Yeah, it is. And it's been tried before, dimwits.
- muh_gradle 5y ago
  Yes, unfortunately it is and the way we handle this isn't exclusive to SF. Google Andrew Yang NYC homeless. Everyone is avoiding the elephant in the room and refusing to touch this issue.
- ramphastidae 5y ago
  I don’t know if it’s unpopular or not but it’s certainly not as simple as “you force them to get the psychiatric help that they need.” That’s not how it works at all. You can’t force people to heal or get better — they have to want it themselves. When people make these types of sweeping statements, it makes me really question if they’ve ever been in a situation where a loved one has been resisting getting help for years.
  - nadagast 5y ago
    I know -- I meant more about making sure they don't make public places unsafe/unclean.

chrisseaton 5y ago

> you force them to get the psychiatric help that they need The problem is that there’s a long history of people labelling all sorts of things they don’t like as being a mental illness and using that as an excuse to use treatment as violence against them. We called homosexuality a mental illness until very recently and forced people to have violent treatment for it, for example.

muh_gradle 5y ago
If someone is having an episode and causing violence onto other people, we're not gonna look at this 20 years later and question if this isn't a mental illness. We absolutely know what the issue is here, and the situation that I described is not unheard of.
- jawarner 5y ago
  Given that causing violence onto other people is illegal, I suppose what you're talking about could be thought of as a change to the prison system so that it's designed to improve the (mental) health of people committed, rather than just being punitive.
dcolkitt 5y ago
As an addendum, I’ll also add that the psychiatric system was the main Avenue for suppressing dissidents in the post-Brezhnev USSR.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago

For better or for worse, homelessness in America can largely be attributed to Regan-era changes in policy [1] that prevented people from being committed against their will to psychiatric hospitals. It was done in the name of human rights, but naturally there were ulterior motives. It's time we reverted it. About 10% of humans have been addicts across most cultures throughout most of recorded human history, and they desperately need help (even if they claim don't want it). There should obviously be a ton of safeguards in place before committing someone against their will (e.g. 1 or 2 doctors should declare that the patient is unable to care for themselves and make rational decisions, assessment at regular intervals, ensuring the patient has the right to get a new doctor, etc.), but I don't think we'll be able to solve homelessness without it, because this is what we used to do differently prior to the homelessness epidemic, and this is what other nations have been doing. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanterman%E2%80%93Petris%E2%80%93Short_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanterman%E2%80%93Petris%E2%...

trhway 5y ago
>About 10% of humans have been addicts across most cultures throughout most of recorded human history, and they desperately need help (even if they claim don't want it). one can wonder why this trait hasn't been selected out by now (or some trait managing it hasn't appeared).
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  Anecdotally, while 9/10 people with obsessive traits may crash and burn and possibly end up homeless, 1/10 may succeed spectacularly by becoming obsessed with something healthy-ish, or something that benefits people other than themselves. (Even if it's at the expense of their family and friends).
- Talanes 5y ago
  How many addicts crash and burn before reproductive age?
- jawarner 5y ago
  It's not a genetic issue, it's an ecological issue. I imagine almost all humans can become addicted to something or develop mental health issues under the right (wrong) circumstances.

nadagast 5y ago

100% this -- is this really an unpopular opinion?

hack-news 5y ago
Yeah, it is. And it's been tried before, dimwits.
muh_gradle 5y ago
Yes, unfortunately it is and the way we handle this isn't exclusive to SF. Google Andrew Yang NYC homeless. Everyone is avoiding the elephant in the room and refusing to touch this issue.
ramphastidae 5y ago
I don’t know if it’s unpopular or not but it’s certainly not as simple as “you force them to get the psychiatric help that they need.” That’s not how it works at all. You can’t force people to heal or get better — they have to want it themselves. When people make these types of sweeping statements, it makes me really question if they’ve ever been in a situation where a loved one has been resisting getting help for years.
- nadagast 5y ago
  I know -- I meant more about making sure they don't make public places unsafe/unclean.