5 ms·

Unpopular opinion: It's both a personal and societal failing, but personal choice is dominant. You can choose to eat rice and beans and drink water. You don't h

Unpopular opinion: It's both a personal and societal failing, but personal choice is dominant. You can choose to eat rice and beans and drink water. You don't have to eat hamburgers and fries and drink sugar.

minikites 5y ago
Not everyone has the time to prepare healthy meals, that's why convenience foods are so popular in our overworked society. If the average person spent less time working, they would have more time to shop for and prepare healthy meals.
- hncurious 5y ago
  The average person in this country has time to binge watch Netflix and social media. Have you seen the stats? We do have the time. Of course there are exceptions, but we're a long long way from only having the exceptions left.
  - kiba 5y ago
    We may have the time, but we may not have the skills. It's also work to cook food. People also don't know tricks like meal preps, sous vide, and slow cooking.
nradov 5y ago
Hamburgers aren't necessarily more obesogenic than rice and beans, depending on the specific type of bun and condiments. Rice has a fairly high glycemic index. Nothing wrong with eating some rice in moderation, but getting the majority of your calories from rice isn't healthy. https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/a-good-guide-to-good-carbs-the-glycemic-index https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/a-good-guide-to-go...
- throw8383833jj 5y ago
  They are, if they're designed to be addictively delicious. McDonalds and their ilk, have created taste formulas that are nearly irresistable. I've seen people from foreign countries come to america who've never tasted anything other than their local cuisines who can't imagine eating anything else. but the second they sink their teeth into a McDon hamburger, they are hooked. MSG has been shown as a super reliable way to make mice obese: there's even a scientific procedure named after it: "MSG induced Obestity". It's a standard procedure used as a precurser to obesity experiments on rats. If it's that reliable on rats, just imagine what it would do to humans.
  - nradov 5y ago
    Nonsense. McDonald's hamburgers don't taste any better than hamburgers cooked at home. They're just more convenient. And they don't contain MSG. https://www.mcdonalds.com/ae/en-ae/your-right-to-know.3807.do-you-use-msg.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/ae/en-ae/your-right-to-know.3807.d...
    - kiba 5y ago
      I love my hamburgers I made at home more than the hamburgers you get at McDonald. Not sure if it's healthy or whatever, but I don't add sugars other than the buns I get from the grocery store. I don't think fast food restaurant necessarily create delicious superpalatable food.
    - feudalism 5y ago
      The myth of MSG being terrible for one's health has been debunked.
- waihtis 5y ago
  I recently learned about the real danger of fast food - the hidden sugar content. Not only does it mean hidden calories, but apparently the stomach also has neurons that can "sense" the sugar, causing dopamine spikes (and consequently increasing sugar cravings.)
dangus 5y ago
I disagree with you because this view considers people in a vacuum as if they are receiving unbiased information to make choices from. In reality, from a very young age people are bombarded with advertisements and other marketing materials that promote foods packed with sugar, carbs, and salt. Cinnamon Toast Crunch is "part of this complete breakfast." In reality, it should never be a part of any breakfast. Unhealthy foods are sold as healthy, e.g., the Nutella scandal: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/04/26/151454929/nutella-maker-may-settle-deceptive-ad-lawsuit-for-3-million https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/04/26/151454929/nu... Another example: sugary, calorie-laden "vitamin" drinks and other "healthy" trends like flavored/sugared Kombucha, juices, etc. I remember seeing advertisements from Coca-Cola "debunking" the idea that soda doesn't have hydration benefits. Then you start realizing that doctors and other experts are receiving free materials from food and drug manufacturers. The food pyramid is influenced by food industry lobbyists. So you're talking about it as if it's all "choice" but that becomes a very complex subject once you start following the money. The nutrition scientist at your local university or the dietician on main street doesn't have a marketing budget, but PepsiCo sure does.
- hncurious 5y ago
  That's all true and why I included social failing. We are fighting against an industry that's trying to convince us to eat their junk food. They are making it as addictive as possible. They are trying to present it as healthier than it is. It is hard to resist. So yes, it's absolutely a factor and a significant one. However, despite that, I have a hard time believing that most people think eating at McDonalds is healthy, or that drinking Coca-Cola is healthy, or eating a bag of chips is healthy. They know it's not. Don't they? Am I wrong about that?
  - dangus 5y ago
    You're not wrong about that! People for the most part do know that soda and burgers aren't healthy. But there are a lot of products out there with more grey area than the typical McDonald's menu item. For example, the Dunkin' "Power Breakfast Sandwich." The marketing sounds healthy without saying the words "healthy:" https://www.dunkindonuts.com/en/menu/sandwiches-and-more/power-breakfast-sandwich https://www.dunkindonuts.com/en/menu/sandwiches-and-more/pow... Notice how this item has almost half your daily value of saturated fat! High cholesterol, high sodium! A lot of people would see this menu and think "this is a good alternative to McDonald's." Same deal with Subway. Jared was selling us on weight loss via eating sandwiches, but he himself didn't eat the Sweet Onion Chicken Teryaki – a.k.a. Chicken on Bread with Sugar Sauce. Subway was promoting footlongs (five...five dollar...five dollar footlongs!) specifically, a portion size that is objectively too large for a single meal unless you're skipping a meal or eating with basically no condiments. Everything about Subway is healthy-ish until you get to the end of the line and you have a spread of caloric sauces to choose from (all free) along with a translucent case of cookies, addictive chips, and unlimited-refill soda. Another example: products labeled "no added sugar" that are largely sugar, such as orange juice. Sure, it's slightly better than added refined sugar, but it's still sugar and it's still calories. I once dated someone who thought their daily Dunkin' Donuts coffee was a low-calorie menu item. Nope! It's 300+ calories, because it was a latte in a large portion size with sweetener. But it looks really similar to low-calorie items. Portions are a huge issue, too. A lot of those fast food chains make larger drink and side sizes in the USA compared to the exact same menu items overseas. Why this is, I'm not actually 100% sure – maybe a more competitive fast food market in America where these companies are trying to beat competing restaurants in value? All of this is to say: 1. We can't assume the average person's nutritional knowledge is very good. It's barely taught in school and the schools themselves are doing basically nothing to promote healthy eating. My public school provided meals like pizza, smiley-face french fries, Little Debbie desserts, and an entire cookie and slushie stand. They actually helped get me addicted to bad food! 2. We can't assume that the general population has any idea what rational portion sizes look like. This has been distorted beyond belief. 3. We can't even assume that the general population knows what a healthy-weight person looks like anymore! I had family members concerned about one family member who lost weight down to a healthy weight. They thought that this person was starving or something like that, even though they were basically the only person in the family who had reached ideal weight. I know I ranted for a long bit here but I think the USA in particular is long-overdue for some really major reforms surrounding the food industry. There need to be serious restrictions on advertising, portions, and macronutrient transparency. Bad food should be treated a lot more like cigarettes. For example, if I could make all the decisions I'd make it illegal to mass-advertise any food item that exceeded certain daily value macro-nutrients like saturated fat, sugar, calories, etc. Sure, you can sell them, but you can't put them on TV.
throw8383833jj 5y ago
You are right that it's about personal choice. But, so is Drugs. but they are highly adictive. Once you are addicted, it's much harder to quit.
gtt 5y ago
No, I don't think this hypothesises agrees with observable evidence https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-part-i-mysteries/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p...
orwin 5y ago
If personal choice was dominant, or rather, if personal choices were not determined by society, there is no way the Japanese obesity rates would be so low.

minikites 5y ago

Not everyone has the time to prepare healthy meals, that's why convenience foods are so popular in our overworked society. If the average person spent less time working, they would have more time to shop for and prepare healthy meals.

hncurious 5y ago
The average person in this country has time to binge watch Netflix and social media. Have you seen the stats? We do have the time. Of course there are exceptions, but we're a long long way from only having the exceptions left.
- kiba 5y ago
  We may have the time, but we may not have the skills. It's also work to cook food. People also don't know tricks like meal preps, sous vide, and slow cooking.

nradov 5y ago

Hamburgers aren't necessarily more obesogenic than rice and beans, depending on the specific type of bun and condiments. Rice has a fairly high glycemic index. Nothing wrong with eating some rice in moderation, but getting the majority of your calories from rice isn't healthy. https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/a-good-guide-to-good-carbs-the-glycemic-index https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/a-good-guide-to-go...

throw8383833jj 5y ago
They are, if they're designed to be addictively delicious. McDonalds and their ilk, have created taste formulas that are nearly irresistable. I've seen people from foreign countries come to america who've never tasted anything other than their local cuisines who can't imagine eating anything else. but the second they sink their teeth into a McDon hamburger, they are hooked. MSG has been shown as a super reliable way to make mice obese: there's even a scientific procedure named after it: "MSG induced Obestity". It's a standard procedure used as a precurser to obesity experiments on rats. If it's that reliable on rats, just imagine what it would do to humans.
- nradov 5y ago
  Nonsense. McDonald's hamburgers don't taste any better than hamburgers cooked at home. They're just more convenient. And they don't contain MSG. https://www.mcdonalds.com/ae/en-ae/your-right-to-know.3807.do-you-use-msg.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/ae/en-ae/your-right-to-know.3807.d...
  - kiba 5y ago
    I love my hamburgers I made at home more than the hamburgers you get at McDonald. Not sure if it's healthy or whatever, but I don't add sugars other than the buns I get from the grocery store. I don't think fast food restaurant necessarily create delicious superpalatable food.
  - feudalism 5y ago
    The myth of MSG being terrible for one's health has been debunked.
waihtis 5y ago
I recently learned about the real danger of fast food - the hidden sugar content. Not only does it mean hidden calories, but apparently the stomach also has neurons that can "sense" the sugar, causing dopamine spikes (and consequently increasing sugar cravings.)

dangus 5y ago

I disagree with you because this view considers people in a vacuum as if they are receiving unbiased information to make choices from. In reality, from a very young age people are bombarded with advertisements and other marketing materials that promote foods packed with sugar, carbs, and salt. Cinnamon Toast Crunch is "part of this complete breakfast." In reality, it should never be a part of any breakfast. Unhealthy foods are sold as healthy, e.g., the Nutella scandal: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/04/26/151454929/nutella-maker-may-settle-deceptive-ad-lawsuit-for-3-million https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/04/26/151454929/nu... Another example: sugary, calorie-laden "vitamin" drinks and other "healthy" trends like flavored/sugared Kombucha, juices, etc. I remember seeing advertisements from Coca-Cola "debunking" the idea that soda doesn't have hydration benefits. Then you start realizing that doctors and other experts are receiving free materials from food and drug manufacturers. The food pyramid is influenced by food industry lobbyists. So you're talking about it as if it's all "choice" but that becomes a very complex subject once you start following the money. The nutrition scientist at your local university or the dietician on main street doesn't have a marketing budget, but PepsiCo sure does.

hncurious 5y ago
That's all true and why I included social failing. We are fighting against an industry that's trying to convince us to eat their junk food. They are making it as addictive as possible. They are trying to present it as healthier than it is. It is hard to resist. So yes, it's absolutely a factor and a significant one. However, despite that, I have a hard time believing that most people think eating at McDonalds is healthy, or that drinking Coca-Cola is healthy, or eating a bag of chips is healthy. They know it's not. Don't they? Am I wrong about that?
- dangus 5y ago
  You're not wrong about that! People for the most part do know that soda and burgers aren't healthy. But there are a lot of products out there with more grey area than the typical McDonald's menu item. For example, the Dunkin' "Power Breakfast Sandwich." The marketing sounds healthy without saying the words "healthy:" https://www.dunkindonuts.com/en/menu/sandwiches-and-more/power-breakfast-sandwich https://www.dunkindonuts.com/en/menu/sandwiches-and-more/pow... Notice how this item has almost half your daily value of saturated fat! High cholesterol, high sodium! A lot of people would see this menu and think "this is a good alternative to McDonald's." Same deal with Subway. Jared was selling us on weight loss via eating sandwiches, but he himself didn't eat the Sweet Onion Chicken Teryaki – a.k.a. Chicken on Bread with Sugar Sauce. Subway was promoting footlongs (five...five dollar...five dollar footlongs!) specifically, a portion size that is objectively too large for a single meal unless you're skipping a meal or eating with basically no condiments. Everything about Subway is healthy-ish until you get to the end of the line and you have a spread of caloric sauces to choose from (all free) along with a translucent case of cookies, addictive chips, and unlimited-refill soda. Another example: products labeled "no added sugar" that are largely sugar, such as orange juice. Sure, it's slightly better than added refined sugar, but it's still sugar and it's still calories. I once dated someone who thought their daily Dunkin' Donuts coffee was a low-calorie menu item. Nope! It's 300+ calories, because it was a latte in a large portion size with sweetener. But it looks really similar to low-calorie items. Portions are a huge issue, too. A lot of those fast food chains make larger drink and side sizes in the USA compared to the exact same menu items overseas. Why this is, I'm not actually 100% sure – maybe a more competitive fast food market in America where these companies are trying to beat competing restaurants in value? All of this is to say: 1. We can't assume the average person's nutritional knowledge is very good. It's barely taught in school and the schools themselves are doing basically nothing to promote healthy eating. My public school provided meals like pizza, smiley-face french fries, Little Debbie desserts, and an entire cookie and slushie stand. They actually helped get me addicted to bad food! 2. We can't assume that the general population has any idea what rational portion sizes look like. This has been distorted beyond belief. 3. We can't even assume that the general population knows what a healthy-weight person looks like anymore! I had family members concerned about one family member who lost weight down to a healthy weight. They thought that this person was starving or something like that, even though they were basically the only person in the family who had reached ideal weight. I know I ranted for a long bit here but I think the USA in particular is long-overdue for some really major reforms surrounding the food industry. There need to be serious restrictions on advertising, portions, and macronutrient transparency. Bad food should be treated a lot more like cigarettes. For example, if I could make all the decisions I'd make it illegal to mass-advertise any food item that exceeded certain daily value macro-nutrients like saturated fat, sugar, calories, etc. Sure, you can sell them, but you can't put them on TV.

throw8383833jj 5y ago

You are right that it's about personal choice. But, so is Drugs. but they are highly adictive. Once you are addicted, it's much harder to quit.

gtt 5y ago

No, I don't think this hypothesises agrees with observable evidence https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-part-i-mysteries/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p...

orwin 5y ago

If personal choice was dominant, or rather, if personal choices were not determined by society, there is no way the Japanese obesity rates would be so low.