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When you have extremists on and don't challenge what they're saying, that _is_ pushing a narrative. The whole "both sides" thing is the _worst_ of cable news a

When you have extremists on and don't challenge what they're saying, that _is_ pushing a narrative. The whole "both sides" thing is the _worst_ of cable news and why I signed off years ago. Does the Sun orbit the Earth? Let's get a crazy person on and see. It's okay because we'll give an expert a few minutes too.

beaner 5y ago
Ok great, so you've picked a side and have your ears shut. Don't act like everyone else should adopt that attitude.
- hobs 5y ago
  Well, we haven't proven you're not an (insert horrible slur here) so let's have an endless stream of guests speculate on whether or not you are!
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > you've picked a side and have your ears shut OP doesn’t claim Rogan should be de-platofrmed. Just that pushing batshit theories is an explanation for his declining influence. I enjoy watching flat earthers from time to time. But I’m not going to make it a part of my information diet.
throwawayboise 5y ago
You see an equivalency between discussing new vaccine technologies for a novel virus, and discussing whether the Sun orbits the Earth?
- titzer 5y ago
  Yeah, when they spout obviously false, easily-checkable things like "it alters your DNA" that are clearly intended to scare people.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - beerandt 5y ago
    It's a plausible enough mistake to have happened before. Which to me, is good enough reason to not outright dismiss it as "obviously false". Some Polio vaccines were contaminated with SV40 for years, and it does, in fact, alter human DNA. For COVID-19, there have been at least 2 major cases of live virus vaccine contamination and recall. In the case of the Sputnik vaccine in Brazil and South Africa, there are claims that at least some made it into patients. And then the "Baltimore Factory" testimony before Congress included company executives admitting to making ~100 million contaminated doses, more than the number of safe doses they had produced. So this "don't mind him, he does conspiracies" attitude isn't doing anything except getting nods from those that don't need convincing, and proving to skeptics that you have a knowledge gap, whether it's ultimately relevant or true (or not). I don't think it's currently happening happening here (at a minimum, adenovirus doesn't alter your DNA), but I also think it's just as reckless to imply that any concerns aren't legitimate or that it's impossible.
    - foldr 5y ago
      The Polio/SV40 thing is itself an antivax talking point (and for the most part a load of nonsense). https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/another-antivaccine-zombie-meme-sv40-and-cancer-and-polio-oh-my/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/another-antivaccine-zombie-...
      - beerandt 5y ago
        >antivax talking point (and for the most part a load of nonsense >>polio vaccine administered from 1955–1963 was contaminated with simian virus 40 (SV40). The virus came from the monkey kidney cell cultures used to produce the vaccine. Most, but not all, of the contamination was in the inactivated polio vaccine (IPV). Once the contamination was recognized, steps were taken to eliminate it from future vaccines. There have been many questions as to the effects on people who received the contaminated vaccine. SV40 has biological properties consistent with a cancer-causing virus, but researchers have not conclusively established whether or not it could cause cancer in humans. Studies of groups of people who received polio vaccine during 1955–1963 provide evidence of no increased cancer risk. >>However, because these epidemiologic studies are sufficiently flawed, the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety Review Committee concluded that the evidence was inadequate to conclude whether or not the contaminated polio vaccine caused cancer. In light of the biological evidence supporting the theory that SV40-contamination of polio vaccines could contribute to human cancers, the committee recommends continued public health attention in the form of policy analysis, communication, and targeted biological research. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221112/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221112/ That sounds like a load of nonsense? >sciencebasedmedicine dot org >> This one popped up at that online repository of all things quackery, NaturalNews.com lol, pot, meet kettle. Why can't you trust the science? Simian virus 40 DNA sequences in human brain and bone tumours https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9776221/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9776221/ Sequence analyses of human tumor-associated SV40 DNAs and SV40 viral isolates from monkeys and humans https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9584955/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9584955/ Human cytomegalovirus major immediate early gene product can induce SV40 DNA replication in human embryonic lung cells https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2173262/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2173262/ Phylogenetic analysis of polyomavirus simian virus 40 from monkeys and humans reveals genetic variation https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15308725/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15308725/ SV40 DNA in human osteosarcomas shows sequence variation among T-antigen genes https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9311596/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9311596/ Natural simian virus 40 strains are present in human choroid plexus and ependymoma tumors https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7571441/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7571441/
WalterBright 5y ago
From my frame of reference, the Sun indeed revolves around the Earth. Just like the chair you're sitting in is stationary according to your frame of reference, while from another it is hurtling through space.
- pjc50 5y ago
  Not in any normal way; the geocentricists tried to build mechanical models but the increasing number of epicycles was a big clue that the system was in fact heliocentric.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    I well understand the history of this topic, after all, I have two years of Caltech physics :-) Nevertheless, as Einstein demonstrated, things look very different depending on the frame of reference. There's no such thing as a "normal" frame of reference. > the geocentricists tried to build mechanical models but the increasing number of epicycles was a big clue that the system was in fact heliocentric. Not exactly, it was a big clue that the planets did not move in perfect circles. The mechanical models did not provide any evidence of heliocentrism. It was Galileo's observations of Venus that torpedoed the geocentric theory.
    - ithkuil 5y ago
      Does relativity apply also to rotating reference frames?
      - WalterBright 5y ago
        Of course.
        kadoban 5y ago
        Is which object orbits which actually relative to a reference frame though? Does not seem like it should be. The Sun has a certain mass, the Earth has a certain mass, the center of the point of orbit of both (barycenter? That seems to be the right term) is inside of the Sun no matter what frame you hang out in. What am I missing?
lamontcg 5y ago
Yeah, he was always that way and he was always a gateway drug to the alt-right.
- manigandham 5y ago
  He's had plenty of prominent leftist guests like Bernie Sanders, and most of his comedian and artist friends are left-leaning, and he leans left himself. How is this a gateway to the alt-right? At some point these accusations just become meaningless.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ajkjk 5y ago
    The claim isn't that he was a gateway to the alt-right _by having only a certain kind of guest_, or anything like that, so that's not really a counterargument.
    - lamontcg 5y ago
      Yeah, you can be so open-minded that every piece of drivel just slides easily through your mind. That isn't being well informed. You actually need good filters and know what they're based upon. Props to Bernie for taking the battle to the middle ground though and not preaching only to the choir. He kind of got shit on for that as well.
      - manigandham 5y ago
        Joe will be the first to say he isn't well informed at all and that's yet another reason why he likes having long conversations with all kinds of people. He's incredibly transparent and authentic, and that's what people seek more than anything. It's the reason for his rise along with many others building independent followings now. Whether you like him or not, or agree with his views, is entirely subjective. But it's interesting to see how much control people want over others by the topics and conversation they want to prevent and suppress, and those actions speak far louder than words.
manigandham 5y ago
> "both sides" thing is the _worst_ of cable news It used to be the best when there was regulation that made sure equal amounts of attention were devoted to both sides of an issue with proper research. What we have today are ideological echo chambers with some caricature of an opposing side, not actual debate.
dexterdog 5y ago
That's a hell of a lot better than what we get now which is "we'll pick a single expert and nobody is allowed to question him because we know that his truth is the right truth."

beaner 5y ago

Ok great, so you've picked a side and have your ears shut. Don't act like everyone else should adopt that attitude.

hobs 5y ago
Well, we haven't proven you're not an (insert horrible slur here) so let's have an endless stream of guests speculate on whether or not you are!
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> you've picked a side and have your ears shut OP doesn’t claim Rogan should be de-platofrmed. Just that pushing batshit theories is an explanation for his declining influence. I enjoy watching flat earthers from time to time. But I’m not going to make it a part of my information diet.

throwawayboise 5y ago

You see an equivalency between discussing new vaccine technologies for a novel virus, and discussing whether the Sun orbits the Earth?

titzer 5y ago
Yeah, when they spout obviously false, easily-checkable things like "it alters your DNA" that are clearly intended to scare people.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- beerandt 5y ago
  It's a plausible enough mistake to have happened before. Which to me, is good enough reason to not outright dismiss it as "obviously false". Some Polio vaccines were contaminated with SV40 for years, and it does, in fact, alter human DNA. For COVID-19, there have been at least 2 major cases of live virus vaccine contamination and recall. In the case of the Sputnik vaccine in Brazil and South Africa, there are claims that at least some made it into patients. And then the "Baltimore Factory" testimony before Congress included company executives admitting to making ~100 million contaminated doses, more than the number of safe doses they had produced. So this "don't mind him, he does conspiracies" attitude isn't doing anything except getting nods from those that don't need convincing, and proving to skeptics that you have a knowledge gap, whether it's ultimately relevant or true (or not). I don't think it's currently happening happening here (at a minimum, adenovirus doesn't alter your DNA), but I also think it's just as reckless to imply that any concerns aren't legitimate or that it's impossible.
  - foldr 5y ago
    The Polio/SV40 thing is itself an antivax talking point (and for the most part a load of nonsense). https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/another-antivaccine-zombie-meme-sv40-and-cancer-and-polio-oh-my/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/another-antivaccine-zombie-...
    - beerandt 5y ago
      >antivax talking point (and for the most part a load of nonsense >>polio vaccine administered from 1955–1963 was contaminated with simian virus 40 (SV40). The virus came from the monkey kidney cell cultures used to produce the vaccine. Most, but not all, of the contamination was in the inactivated polio vaccine (IPV). Once the contamination was recognized, steps were taken to eliminate it from future vaccines. There have been many questions as to the effects on people who received the contaminated vaccine. SV40 has biological properties consistent with a cancer-causing virus, but researchers have not conclusively established whether or not it could cause cancer in humans. Studies of groups of people who received polio vaccine during 1955–1963 provide evidence of no increased cancer risk. >>However, because these epidemiologic studies are sufficiently flawed, the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety Review Committee concluded that the evidence was inadequate to conclude whether or not the contaminated polio vaccine caused cancer. In light of the biological evidence supporting the theory that SV40-contamination of polio vaccines could contribute to human cancers, the committee recommends continued public health attention in the form of policy analysis, communication, and targeted biological research. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221112/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221112/ That sounds like a load of nonsense? >sciencebasedmedicine dot org >> This one popped up at that online repository of all things quackery, NaturalNews.com lol, pot, meet kettle. Why can't you trust the science? Simian virus 40 DNA sequences in human brain and bone tumours https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9776221/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9776221/ Sequence analyses of human tumor-associated SV40 DNAs and SV40 viral isolates from monkeys and humans https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9584955/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9584955/ Human cytomegalovirus major immediate early gene product can induce SV40 DNA replication in human embryonic lung cells https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2173262/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2173262/ Phylogenetic analysis of polyomavirus simian virus 40 from monkeys and humans reveals genetic variation https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15308725/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15308725/ SV40 DNA in human osteosarcomas shows sequence variation among T-antigen genes https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9311596/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9311596/ Natural simian virus 40 strains are present in human choroid plexus and ependymoma tumors https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7571441/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7571441/

WalterBright 5y ago

From my frame of reference, the Sun indeed revolves around the Earth. Just like the chair you're sitting in is stationary according to your frame of reference, while from another it is hurtling through space.

pjc50 5y ago
Not in any normal way; the geocentricists tried to build mechanical models but the increasing number of epicycles was a big clue that the system was in fact heliocentric.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  I well understand the history of this topic, after all, I have two years of Caltech physics :-) Nevertheless, as Einstein demonstrated, things look very different depending on the frame of reference. There's no such thing as a "normal" frame of reference. > the geocentricists tried to build mechanical models but the increasing number of epicycles was a big clue that the system was in fact heliocentric. Not exactly, it was a big clue that the planets did not move in perfect circles. The mechanical models did not provide any evidence of heliocentrism. It was Galileo's observations of Venus that torpedoed the geocentric theory.
  - ithkuil 5y ago
    Does relativity apply also to rotating reference frames?
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      Of course.
      - kadoban 5y ago
        Is which object orbits which actually relative to a reference frame though? Does not seem like it should be. The Sun has a certain mass, the Earth has a certain mass, the center of the point of orbit of both (barycenter? That seems to be the right term) is inside of the Sun no matter what frame you hang out in. What am I missing?

lamontcg 5y ago

Yeah, he was always that way and he was always a gateway drug to the alt-right.

manigandham 5y ago
He's had plenty of prominent leftist guests like Bernie Sanders, and most of his comedian and artist friends are left-leaning, and he leans left himself. How is this a gateway to the alt-right? At some point these accusations just become meaningless.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ajkjk 5y ago
  The claim isn't that he was a gateway to the alt-right _by having only a certain kind of guest_, or anything like that, so that's not really a counterargument.
  - lamontcg 5y ago
    Yeah, you can be so open-minded that every piece of drivel just slides easily through your mind. That isn't being well informed. You actually need good filters and know what they're based upon. Props to Bernie for taking the battle to the middle ground though and not preaching only to the choir. He kind of got shit on for that as well.
    - manigandham 5y ago
      Joe will be the first to say he isn't well informed at all and that's yet another reason why he likes having long conversations with all kinds of people. He's incredibly transparent and authentic, and that's what people seek more than anything. It's the reason for his rise along with many others building independent followings now. Whether you like him or not, or agree with his views, is entirely subjective. But it's interesting to see how much control people want over others by the topics and conversation they want to prevent and suppress, and those actions speak far louder than words.

manigandham 5y ago

> "both sides" thing is the _worst_ of cable news It used to be the best when there was regulation that made sure equal amounts of attention were devoted to both sides of an issue with proper research. What we have today are ideological echo chambers with some caricature of an opposing side, not actual debate.

dexterdog 5y ago

That's a hell of a lot better than what we get now which is "we'll pick a single expert and nobody is allowed to question him because we know that his truth is the right truth."