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That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a n

by cm2187 5y ago

That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever?

rossdavidh 5y ago
In the case of the U.K., it's the population (not the government) that is holding things back. My impression is that Boris Johnson is opening things up as fast as he thinks he can get away with, without an enormous backlash that gets him removed from office. Unlike, say, France where the positions of government and popular backlash are reversed.
- nly 5y ago
  Boris isn't in danger. He got what he always wanted - to be a wartime PM
celticninja 5y ago
What restrictions do you mean? I am in the UK and facing no restrictions in daily life.
- cm2187 5y ago
  No restriction? You will have a nasty surprise if you return from a red list country. Plus mandatory covid tests before and after returning to the UK. Plus mandatory face masks in public transports. Plus mandatory self-quarantine if you are pinged by the NHS app. Many companies have not returned to the office. We are not back to normal.
  - luffapi 5y ago
    > Many companies have not returned to the office. We are not back to normal. This is the new normal (thankfully). Government regulations or not, management will not be able to force people back in the office. Office culture was a quirk of the 20th century. A halfway house between the assembly line and the internet. Covid just forced its inevitable collapse.
    - bserge 5y ago
      Nice bubble you live in.
      - luffapi 5y ago
        I hesitate to feed the trolls, but this is a well documented worldwide phenomenon. Hardly just my personal experience.
        bserge 5y ago
        Yeah, well, on the other side of the coin, people are being forced back in the office, some have never even been able to work from home and many actually like the work/home separation. Not to mention the millions of jobs that can't be done remotely no matter how hard you try, but that's on a whole 'nother planet.
    - tyfon 5y ago
      Yeah my team will meet in the office for an hour once a week otherwise WFH. I suspect once the bean counters discover that the office is only used for an hour once a week also after corona there will be pressure to remove a lot of the seats. The only one really resisting at my company is the "office manager" for some reason ;)
  - rpadovani 5y ago
    > Plus mandatory face masks in public transports. I really hope this will stay forever, or at least until people don't learn to stay home when they get a cold
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      "or at least until people don't learn to stay home when they get a cold " Not everyone can afford that, with a fear of losing their jobs.
      - nextaccountic 5y ago
        Then we need better labor laws.
        hutzlibu 5y ago
        Possible, but it is hard to implement in a failsave way. How can the new employee proof he was fired, because he was sick too often?
    - odessacubbage 5y ago
      last time i tried to stay home [from a public facing food service position] due to the flu i was fired over Christmas. until you change the culture around working through illness and the punitive nature of sick days, especially for those with children, people are not gonna stay home if they think they can tough it out.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - Uberphallus 5y ago
    We're better than normal. My employer already decided to allow up to 60% time remote, no questions asked, forever. You can still come 100% of the time to the office if you want. Some restrictions are still in place, but the future seems brighter for the workplace.
  - FridayoLeary 5y ago
    Enforcement is a total joke though.
    - whoooooo123 5y ago
      Well in the UK we've had three separate scandals where major government officials (including the fucking HEALTH SECRETARY) were caught flagrantly violating their own rules with minimal consequence, so you can hardly blame the public for taking things no more seriously than our leadership does.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > Plus mandatory self-quarantine if you are pinged by the NHS app. I think you're poorly informed - it has never been mandatory to self-quarantine if pinged by the app. And government mandated face masks on public transport went away on the 19th of July - but people are still encouraged and I think required by some individual institutions not by Her Majesty's Government. And I don't think jet-setting around is 'daily life' so that's disingenuous.
    - bodge5000 5y ago
      self quarantine through the app couldn't be mandatory seeing as the app isn't mandatory The only thing OP has a point on is travel abroad, which yeh as you say isn't really daily life for the majority of people and probably isn't too big a pill to swallow temporarily, and continued working from home, which to my knowledge is the choice of companies, not the government (though either way, I'm not complaining)
  - andyjohnson0 5y ago
    > Plus mandatory face masks in public transports. Not true. There is no national requirement to wear a mask on public transport. London Underground and the Manchester Metro have used mayoral powers to require mask wearing - with variable compliance. Elsewhere its down to individual choice. > Plus mandatory self-quarantine if you are pinged by the NHS app. Not true. The app gives a recommendation. Only the NHS test and trace service can legally require you to self isolate. And for that you need to test positive (pcr) and not be fully vaccinated.
    - whoooooo123 5y ago
      > with variable compliance Anecdotally, it seems to me that around 70-80% of people on the London Underground are still wearing masks. Which is to say that the "mandate" is a joke (like so many of our restrictions have been) and clearly isn't being enforced. The percentage of people wearing masks on the tube, where masks are "compulsory", doesn't seem much higher than the percentage of people who are voluntarily wearing masks in other public places which have no mandate, so the fact that most people are still wearing masks on the Tube is probably less because of the mandate and more because of people's general sense of precaution/paranoia. I suspect if the mask mandate were lifted then most people would continue to wear masks voluntarily anyway, just as they're still doing at the supermarket.
  - celticninja 5y ago
    No mandatory face masks on public transport, and only advisory quarantine if you are pinged by the app. I don't want to go back to the office. Sure it may differ If I travel but that's one restriction not a multitude as you suggest.
- PartiallyTyped 5y ago
  Same for Denmark. We are at 85% first dose and 78% second dose for the 5.1m people a vaccine was offered, so we are at 75% of the population with at least one dose [1]. Everything is open, there is a suggestion to wear masks in metro, no idea about buses or trains. [1] https://www.sst.dk/en/english/corona-eng/status-of-the-epidemic/covid-19-updates-statistics-and-charts https://www.sst.dk/en/english/corona-eng/status-of-the-epide...
slickrick216 5y ago
Don’t know about the UK but in other EU countries with near full vaccination rates it does seem like they want a perpetual semi lockdown yes. Directive 10-289.
cpr 5y ago
Because it's all about control, not about a virus with a 99.8% survival rate.
- Expirat 5y ago
  Apparently this is something so complex that the big brains here cannot wrap their heads around no matter how smart and informed they think they are.
SamBam 5y ago
Since no one under 16 has been vaccinated yet, about 70% of the population is vaccinated (44M out of 67M). That might be barely enough for herd immunity for some diseases, but the case numbers in the UK are still very high and trending back upward, showing that this isn't enough for herd immunity for Covid. Hospitalization rates are also back up to significantly higher than they were this time last year. And that's with the restrictions you're referring to. So, no, I don't think that it would make sense for the UK to just go right back to normal just yet, at least until the vaccinations rates are high enough that you see the case rate go back down and stay down.
- carnitine 5y ago
  What restrictions are there in the UK? As far as I know in England and Wales where the vast majority live there are none except for those around international travel or imposed by private enterprise.
  - jjgreen 5y ago
    They're pretty much gone, there are still some mask requirements on, e.g., London underground, but 50% compliance? There is some talk of introducing a vaccine passport for nightclubs, football grounds in a month or two. For me, the mood in London is "we've had enough, it's endemic, let's live with it".
- cm2187 5y ago
  These herd immunity thresholds assumed that vaccinated people do not transmit the virus, but it appears that they do. Vaccines seem to be very efficient at preventing complications, which is great and good enough to neutralise this virus. But they don't seem to have made a dent into this summer's cases numbers. It doesn't look like vaccines will prevent the virus from circulating. Hospitalisation rates have been pretty much flat vs previous waves (there was no wave last summer).
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    "It doesn't look like vaccines will prevent the virus from circulating." Do you have some numbers? As far as I know, it indeed supresses the virus from circulating, it just doesn't stop it completely. Here in my area, which started early with broad vaccinations - the numbers are way down.
dota_fanatic 5y ago
Aren't the vaccines still not available for those under 12? And they're emergency use only in many of those countries? Not sure how you can say any country, even Israel, is "close to full vaccination". 28% of their population is 14 and under. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Age_structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Age_str...
- peteradio 5y ago
  1 year ago the hive mind was buzzing about protecting the "elderly/infirm" with the warp drive wunder drugs. So it shouldn't be surprising that "full vaccination" might be calculated with "elderly/infirm" pop in the denominator.
- lokedhs 5y ago
  There are studies ongoing and Singapore is planning to vaccinate kids below 12 as early as next year. https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/3rd-shot-covid-19-vaccine-very-likely-children-below-12-be-vaccinated-next-year https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/3rd-shot-covid-19-vaccine-...
blacktriangle 5y ago
Yes, yes they do. And they're even starting to be honest about it, look at the press coming out of NZ and Scotland. Many of us called this the second the lockdowns started and we were right. Coronavirus is real, but it's nothing more than another SARS, H1N1, Hong Kong flu, etc. The only difference between now and then is now governments were prepped for a full on power grab.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  > Coronavirus is real, but it's nothing more than another SARS, H1N1, Hong Kong flu, etc. SARS in 2002-2004 killed 811 people. H1N1 killed 18,500 in 2009. Neither of those had the sort of mass lock-downs mitigating their spread that we are experiencing now. I don't know about you, but I can see a big difference.
wongarsu 5y ago
The vaccination rate in the UK is 67%. A year ago the estimate was that we need about a 75% vaccination rate to reach herd immunity, and I doubt that the new mutations have pushed that number down.
- fatfox 5y ago
  Yes, with the Delta variant herd immunity seems out of reach according to experts, as vaccines can't completely stop transmission: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-renders-herd-immunity-from-covid-mythical https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-... https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/02/herd-immunity-might-be-impossible-even-vaccines/617973/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/02/herd-immu...
  - ummwhat 5y ago
    That's not strictly settled science. The truth is herd immunity / lack thereof is well within the error bars of the vaccine efficacy / R0 estimates. We don't actually know, but it looks like the delta curve is peaking in some areas so my bet is in favor of herd immunity.
pm215 5y ago
The article's answer to this question is "the eventuality of endemic COVID-19 does not mean we should drop all precautions. The more we can flatten the curve now, the less hospitals will become overwhelmed". There are currently ~6000 COVID patients in hospital, which is a little less than 1/6 of the Jan 2021 peak and over 1/4 of the April 2020 peak. Which is to say, manageable right now but probably not something you want to let burn much hotter than that.
HarryHirsch 5y ago
Israel has close to full vaccination, yet cases are going up because immunity is falling again and there are new variants. It's understandable why the restrictions are back again.
- leoedin 5y ago
  But what's the end goal? Do we keep lockdown restrictions forever? The case fatality rate for a vaccinated population is really low. There must be an acceptable level - after all we don't lock down for other endemic viruses which also have non-zero CFRs. What is it? Have we reached it?
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
    We'll have to have some restrictions in place for the highest-risk activities. I really wouldn't want to give introductory lectures in a room that seats 250 people and has been in use all day and then find out, like the Reverend Jackson, that the vaccine protection has worn off.
    - CountDrewku 5y ago
      >I really wouldn't want to give introductory lectures in a room that seats 250 people and has been in use all day and then find out, like the Reverend Jackson, that the vaccine protection has worn off. Ok then don't? No one is forcing you to go out. Let everyone else make their own decisions. I'm kinda tired of the hypochondriacs forcing everyone else to do what they want. Everyone has access to the vaccine, they can stay in and mask all they want, they do not have to go near people. There's absolutely no reason to be locking down the rest of society. The only argument to keep these restrictions in place is if the hospitals get over capacity and that's not happening.
      - bmitc 5y ago
        > if the hospitals get over capacity and that's not happening It’s happening in quite a few places.
rgrieselhuber 5y ago
Yes
andyjohnson0 5y ago
> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There are almost no UK legal restrictions relating to covid. There are some rules about people returning from certain high risk countries. And unvaccinated people who test positive still have to self isolate. And that's about it. Many people (like myself) still wear masks in busy indoor locations. And many are choosing to forego foreign holidays this summer. Life here in the UK doesn't feel entirely normal, but it's much much nearer to pre-pandemic conditions than this time last year.
- whoooooo123 5y ago
  > many are choosing to forego foreign holidays this summer "Choosing" is a strange way to put it when COVID testing and quarantine requirements have added hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of pounds to the cost of most foreign holidays and the rules are changing so frequently and suddenly that it's a big financial risk to book anything more than a few days in advance.
Expirat 5y ago
> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK Because it s not about the pandemic. It s about asserting control over population and making them obey whatever govts, ongs, big pharma or big corps come up with. A kind of a mass scale social engineering project. Edit: this btw doesn t need to be some sort of a secret group project. It can rise naturally and decentralized among many connected decision groups(govts, academia, big corps, etc) which already happened.
- bodge5000 5y ago
  A pandemic seems like an awfully long and expensive way of doing that, especially considering they already did so before the pandemic through so many means (many of which actually make them money rather than cost them, I assume you pay taxes?) The only group who can be said to have really profited off this is pharma. Maybe they have orchestrated the whole thing, but I'd like to see some evidence first.
  - whoooooo123 5y ago
    The pandemic doesn't need to have been deliberately engineered; it only needed to provide an opportunity for nefarious actors to exploit. Unless you think we're living through the only crisis in history which powerful people haven't exploited to further their existing agendas.
    - bodge5000 5y ago
      Well again that's not particularly new, even outside a crisis, that's part of every day life. Your hardly a nefarious actor if you're not exploiting anything.
  - elastic_is_slow 5y ago
    > A pandemic seems like an awfully long and expensive way of doing that... Actually a pandemic is a great way of establishing control and surveillance. Read Michel Foucault's analysis of the way the plague has shaped the society and power play between decision makers and average citizens. https://foucault.info/documents/foucault.disciplineAndPunish.panOpticism/ https://foucault.info/documents/foucault.disciplineAndPunish... > The only group who can be said to have really profited off this is pharma. Really? The rich getting richer off the lockdown doesn't count? The governments getting excuses to strengthen the hold on their citizens? Two groups off the top of my head. Also don t try to find some ulterior motif for all of this(conspiracy ppl do this a lot), it can very well be done just for the sake of it.
Alex3917 5y ago
> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK If you get it after being vaccinated, you still have a ~20% chance of becoming disabled.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  That's a really extraordinary claim with no evidence whatsoever.
  - Alex3917 5y ago
    How does this not count as evidence?: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/well/live/vaccine-long-covid-breakthrough-infection.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/well/live/vaccine-long-co... It literally says: "While most of the breakthrough cases were mild or asymptomatic, seven out of 36 workers tracked at six weeks (19 percent) still had persistent symptoms. These long Covid symptoms included a mix of prolonged loss of smell, persistent cough, fatigue, weakness, labored breathing or muscle pain." It's certainly not great data, but it's still the best information we have as of right now.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      I don't think very many reasonable people would count a "persistent cough" as "becoming disabled".
      - Alex3917 5y ago
        When you have a persistent cough due to lung damage then your chances of death the next time you catch a minor illness go through the roof. It's why so many of the people who survived SARS initially are no longer alive.
    - lp0_on_fire 5y ago
      calling that "disabled" is incredibly misleading to the point of being disingenuous.
modzu 5y ago
once you have power its hard to give it up
staticassertion 5y ago
The UK seems to have a 62% full vaccination rate with 71% having at least one dose[0]. That sounds really low to me. "Close to full vaccination" to me would imply close to 100% or, reading "full" as "reaching herd immunity" I'd think 70-80% fully vaccinated - still a very long way to go. I hear you that we will eventually reach a point where we've hit the new normal. It's just going to be whether that point is reached because we've given up (due to people refusing to vaccinate) or because we've managed to vaccinate enough. I think many people aren't ready to give up. Personally, the restrictions are quite meaningless to me in the US, but I can imagine that that's just because I get to work from home and all that. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/united-kingdom-covid-cases.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/united-kingdo...
- ekianjo 5y ago
  > That sounds really low to me. Low compared to what? Do you know the vaccinations rates for all other diseases for which we have vaccines for?
  - staticassertion 5y ago
    Low compared to my third fucking sentence jesus christ.
- NonContro 5y ago
  92% of Brits have COVID antibodies, either through exposure or immunity: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-around-nine-in-10-adults-in-most-parts-of-uk-likely-to-have-virus-antibodies-ons-data-says-12350776 https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-around-nine-in-10-adults...
  - phreeza 5y ago
    92% of the Brits eligible for vaccination.
  - staticassertion 5y ago
    That feels a little selective. > Latest estimates from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show 89.8% of adults in England are likely to have the antibodies, with the highest percentage of adults testing positive for them estimated to be the age groups 60 to 64, 70 to 74 and 75 to 79 (all 96.8%). > The lowest percentage was for 16 to 24-year-olds at around 59.7%. The 92% (91.8% cited) is presumably from this sentence? > In Wales, 91.8% of adults are estimated to have antibodies in their system
sleepysysadmin 5y ago
>That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever? Our government loves to pat themselves on the back having 80% vaccination. Which is more than double the usual flu shot rates. Yet here we are with a 4th wave, talk about complete lockdown. At what point do you say that our approach is no different than the usual flu season? In my opinion that was long ago. So why? Technically don't know the answer. You can look at it from liberties point of view. That the reason these restrictions haven't lifted has nothing to do with covid. Another theory which seems legit. Vaccine doesnt work. If you follow texas gov abbot. TONS of articles slamming him for getting covid. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/17/texas-gov-abbott-who-banned-mask-mandates-tests-positive-for-covid.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/17/texas-gov-abbott-who-banned-... Texas Gov. Abbott, who banned mask and vaccine mandates, tests positive for Covid But wait... Abbott is fully vaccinated. That's a huge issue. You can't slam him banning masks and all that. Vaccination is vaccination. Article title should be "Texas Gov. Abbott, who is fully vaccinated, tests positive for Covid" But that's where the politics of the situation come in. It's very evident covid-19 is completely influenced by politics. Which brings you right back to liberties point of view.
- chitowneats 5y ago
  Greg Abbot even received a booster shot prior to infection. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/texas-gov-greg-abbott-tests-positive-covid-n1277021 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/texas-gov-gre...
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > But wait... Abbott is fully vaccinated. That's a huge issue. No, its not. While the rates are somewhat higher with Delta, breakthrough infections were always expected. The accines reduce the probability of getting COVID with similar exposure, they don't 100% prevent it. > You can't slam him banning masks and all that. Yes, you can. Even if schools weren't full of unvaccinated people, which they are, the existence of breakthrough infections would underline why banning mask mandates is a culpablr error.
jrockway 5y ago
Maybe "mask requirements" are a sign of society advancing? There was a time in human history when we didn't bathe regularly, or brush our teeth, or have sewage removal systems in cities, etc. Maybe the next step is "you know, breathing in particles that came from the other 600 people in this railcar is not so great". I certainly don't see a reason to go maskless on public transportation in the future. And, as supply chain problems work themselves out, someone will probably make masks that actually filter out virus-size particles and fit more people's faces. (I feel like every mask I've bought so far during the pandemic has either been completely ineffective, or has been designed to fit someone that is 1/3 my size.)
- josephcsible 5y ago
  You're saying society should keep wearing masks everywhere literally forever? That's so insane I can't tell whether you're even serious.
  - geofft 5y ago
    Is there a particular reason you think that people shouldn't keep wearing masks everywhere literally forever, or is it just that it hurts your feelings? Barely a century ago, it wasn't common for doctors to wash their hands, because it hurt doctors' feelings. Dr. Charles Meigs, an obstetrician, said, "Doctors are gentlemen and a gentleman's hands are clean." But, of course, factually they weren't clean, factually they were full of germs, and factually Dr. Meigs was killing several of the people he operated on through his unclean hands. There was factual data that infant mortality dropped significantly in clinics where doctors were washing their hands. But the response to hand-washing was much like yours. "You're saying society should keep washing hands everywhere literally forever? That's so insane I can't tell whether you're even serious." And in fact they sent the doctor who suggested hand-washing to an insane asylum, where he died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz_Semmelweis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz...
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      Doctors washing their hands saves way more lives than masks do, and hand washing doesn't have negative side effects like masks do (e.g., constantly fogging up glasses, and keeping people who are hard of hearing from reading lips).
KineticLensman 5y ago
> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK I cracked some ribs three weeks ago and coughing / sneezing are really painful. I am keeping my mask on because I really don't want even a mild cough, for whatever reason. More generally, the vaccines are not 100% effective, the virus can still be transmitted and spread. For lots of people, getting COVID is still life threatening, even if the average case is not as bad as it used to be.
- 2trill2spill 5y ago
  So you want country wide restrictions solely for your own comfort? Sounds incredibly selfish.
  - s5300 5y ago
    You really don't see the irony in this statement, do you.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    That is exactly what people are asking for and it is super selfish. Asking everybody to hunker down to assuage people who continue to be afraid. Sorry. Life is short. I’ve sacrificed 1.6 years of it for something I’ve never been afraid of. I’ve played by all the rules, but enough is enough. It is super selfish to insist we continue to live this way. We aren’t living, we are being kept alive… life was meant to be lived.
    - op00to 5y ago
      Wow you’re so tough and edgy. You must have very thick chest hair or whatever you’re trying to compensate for with this rediculous machismo.
      - spookthesunset 5y ago
        Machismo? Dude. 1.6 years is a non trivial amount of my life. I’ve already put my career on hold because of this, sacrificed my daughters well being, and a bunch of stuff. I got the shot. I’m fully vaccinated. How much more do you expect from me in order to protect people who don’t want to get vaccinated? The only person who truly looks after my well-being is me. I can be selfish. I deserve to have my actual normal life back. My 2019 life didnt revolve around worrying about stopping the spread of exactly one very specific disease. If y’all want to hide under the bed at home until some undefined end date… go for it. But forcing society to do the same with you is incredibly selfish.
geofft 5y ago
Long-term mask-wearing seem like an entirely reasonable social change. It's like any other clothing: you're protecting a vulnerable part of your body and also displaying respect for others. And it's mostly enforced by social norms: though in many places it is in fact illegal to go without clothing, people wear clothes regardless of the law. (I was in San Francisco at the time the public nudity ban, or shall we call it the "clothing requirement," was passed, and I can assure you that people were generally clothed in San Francisco even before then.) As another comment pointed out the other day (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28255121 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28255121), it's not just going to be SARS-nCoV-2. There's going to be a lot more easily communicable diseases in the future in dense locations. And there was the first SARS, of course, and countries hit hard by the first SARS already adopted a norm of mask-wearing in crowded locations like public transit, which helps them with other diseases that are "here forever" like the seasonal flu. I think mask-wearing in public is going to become a sign of basic respect and decency and hygiene. We're already comfortable with "No shoes, no shirt, no service."
- swader999 5y ago
  Hard no to that.
- q-rews 5y ago
  People love downvoting 'round here, but the comment is sensible. Don't shoot the messenger, even if we all hate the news they bring.
superkuh 5y ago
Spread of sars-cov-2 in human populations can be stopped. It first requires intramuscular vaccination to provide IgG antibodies in the body proper to prevent serious disease and then just as importantly, an intranasal vaccination to provide resident B and T cells in the surface mucosa tissues of the upper respiratory tract where the B cells will make local IgA antibodies and provide sterilizing immunity and prevent spread from person to person. Intranasal boosters are the one obvious thing we could do top-down to end the pandemic and only have to deal with epidemics. ref: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6553/397 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6553/397 ref: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/long-term-evolution-of-sars-cov-2-26-july-2021 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/long-term-evoluti... page 5, #8. "Whilst we feel that current vaccines are excellent for reducing the risk of hospital admission and disease, we propose that research be focused on vaccines that also induce high and durable levels of mucosal immunity in order to reduce infection of and transmission from vaccinated individuals. This could also reduce the possibility of variant selection in vaccinated individuals." ref: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-021-00550-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-021-00550-x
basisword 5y ago
The UK dropped all restrictions with the exception of some travel related restrictions (to prevent the import of variants that could breakthrough the vaccine). Any restrictions you see in the UK are implemented by businesses/local government (e.g. masks on the tube, or in some shops).
- switch007 5y ago
  That is fake news, sorry The law to imprison yourself (isolate) still is very much a law.
howaboutnope 5y ago
Well, it's been profitable so far, so of course it's going to get milked for as long as possible. https://inequality.org/great-divide/updates-billionaire-pandemic/ https://inequality.org/great-divide/updates-billionaire-pand...
AndrewDucker 5y ago
To slow the spread so that hospitals are not overwhelmed. You can be up for letting it spread through everyone, but not think that letting everyone catch it at once is sensible.
Synaesthesia 5y ago
The UK already went ahead and reponed prematurely with a huge influx of new cases following
justin66 5y ago
> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. Until the number needed for herd immunity is achieved, the 30% (or whatever) of your population that is not vaccinated can suffer devastating spikes in cases. Mostly having herd immunity is not a thing.

by cm2187 5y ago

rossdavidh 5y ago

In the case of the U.K., it's the population (not the government) that is holding things back. My impression is that Boris Johnson is opening things up as fast as he thinks he can get away with, without an enormous backlash that gets him removed from office. Unlike, say, France where the positions of government and popular backlash are reversed.

nly 5y ago
Boris isn't in danger. He got what he always wanted - to be a wartime PM

celticninja 5y ago

What restrictions do you mean? I am in the UK and facing no restrictions in daily life.

cm2187 5y ago
No restriction? You will have a nasty surprise if you return from a red list country. Plus mandatory covid tests before and after returning to the UK. Plus mandatory face masks in public transports. Plus mandatory self-quarantine if you are pinged by the NHS app. Many companies have not returned to the office. We are not back to normal.
- luffapi 5y ago
  > Many companies have not returned to the office. We are not back to normal. This is the new normal (thankfully). Government regulations or not, management will not be able to force people back in the office. Office culture was a quirk of the 20th century. A halfway house between the assembly line and the internet. Covid just forced its inevitable collapse.
  - bserge 5y ago
    Nice bubble you live in.
    - luffapi 5y ago
      I hesitate to feed the trolls, but this is a well documented worldwide phenomenon. Hardly just my personal experience.
      - bserge 5y ago
        Yeah, well, on the other side of the coin, people are being forced back in the office, some have never even been able to work from home and many actually like the work/home separation. Not to mention the millions of jobs that can't be done remotely no matter how hard you try, but that's on a whole 'nother planet.
  - tyfon 5y ago
    Yeah my team will meet in the office for an hour once a week otherwise WFH. I suspect once the bean counters discover that the office is only used for an hour once a week also after corona there will be pressure to remove a lot of the seats. The only one really resisting at my company is the "office manager" for some reason ;)
- rpadovani 5y ago
  > Plus mandatory face masks in public transports. I really hope this will stay forever, or at least until people don't learn to stay home when they get a cold
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    "or at least until people don't learn to stay home when they get a cold " Not everyone can afford that, with a fear of losing their jobs.
    - nextaccountic 5y ago
      Then we need better labor laws.
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        Possible, but it is hard to implement in a failsave way. How can the new employee proof he was fired, because he was sick too often?
  - odessacubbage 5y ago
    last time i tried to stay home [from a public facing food service position] due to the flu i was fired over Christmas. until you change the culture around working through illness and the punitive nature of sick days, especially for those with children, people are not gonna stay home if they think they can tough it out.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Uberphallus 5y ago
  We're better than normal. My employer already decided to allow up to 60% time remote, no questions asked, forever. You can still come 100% of the time to the office if you want. Some restrictions are still in place, but the future seems brighter for the workplace.
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  Enforcement is a total joke though.
  - whoooooo123 5y ago
    Well in the UK we've had three separate scandals where major government officials (including the fucking HEALTH SECRETARY) were caught flagrantly violating their own rules with minimal consequence, so you can hardly blame the public for taking things no more seriously than our leadership does.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > Plus mandatory self-quarantine if you are pinged by the NHS app. I think you're poorly informed - it has never been mandatory to self-quarantine if pinged by the app. And government mandated face masks on public transport went away on the 19th of July - but people are still encouraged and I think required by some individual institutions not by Her Majesty's Government. And I don't think jet-setting around is 'daily life' so that's disingenuous.
  - bodge5000 5y ago
    self quarantine through the app couldn't be mandatory seeing as the app isn't mandatory The only thing OP has a point on is travel abroad, which yeh as you say isn't really daily life for the majority of people and probably isn't too big a pill to swallow temporarily, and continued working from home, which to my knowledge is the choice of companies, not the government (though either way, I'm not complaining)
- andyjohnson0 5y ago
  > Plus mandatory face masks in public transports. Not true. There is no national requirement to wear a mask on public transport. London Underground and the Manchester Metro have used mayoral powers to require mask wearing - with variable compliance. Elsewhere its down to individual choice. > Plus mandatory self-quarantine if you are pinged by the NHS app. Not true. The app gives a recommendation. Only the NHS test and trace service can legally require you to self isolate. And for that you need to test positive (pcr) and not be fully vaccinated.
  - whoooooo123 5y ago
    > with variable compliance Anecdotally, it seems to me that around 70-80% of people on the London Underground are still wearing masks. Which is to say that the "mandate" is a joke (like so many of our restrictions have been) and clearly isn't being enforced. The percentage of people wearing masks on the tube, where masks are "compulsory", doesn't seem much higher than the percentage of people who are voluntarily wearing masks in other public places which have no mandate, so the fact that most people are still wearing masks on the Tube is probably less because of the mandate and more because of people's general sense of precaution/paranoia. I suspect if the mask mandate were lifted then most people would continue to wear masks voluntarily anyway, just as they're still doing at the supermarket.
- celticninja 5y ago
  No mandatory face masks on public transport, and only advisory quarantine if you are pinged by the app. I don't want to go back to the office. Sure it may differ If I travel but that's one restriction not a multitude as you suggest.
PartiallyTyped 5y ago
Same for Denmark. We are at 85% first dose and 78% second dose for the 5.1m people a vaccine was offered, so we are at 75% of the population with at least one dose [1]. Everything is open, there is a suggestion to wear masks in metro, no idea about buses or trains. [1] https://www.sst.dk/en/english/corona-eng/status-of-the-epidemic/covid-19-updates-statistics-and-charts https://www.sst.dk/en/english/corona-eng/status-of-the-epide...

slickrick216 5y ago

Don’t know about the UK but in other EU countries with near full vaccination rates it does seem like they want a perpetual semi lockdown yes. Directive 10-289.

cpr 5y ago

Because it's all about control, not about a virus with a 99.8% survival rate.

Expirat 5y ago
Apparently this is something so complex that the big brains here cannot wrap their heads around no matter how smart and informed they think they are.

SamBam 5y ago

Since no one under 16 has been vaccinated yet, about 70% of the population is vaccinated (44M out of 67M). That might be barely enough for herd immunity for some diseases, but the case numbers in the UK are still very high and trending back upward, showing that this isn't enough for herd immunity for Covid. Hospitalization rates are also back up to significantly higher than they were this time last year. And that's with the restrictions you're referring to. So, no, I don't think that it would make sense for the UK to just go right back to normal just yet, at least until the vaccinations rates are high enough that you see the case rate go back down and stay down.

carnitine 5y ago
What restrictions are there in the UK? As far as I know in England and Wales where the vast majority live there are none except for those around international travel or imposed by private enterprise.
- jjgreen 5y ago
  They're pretty much gone, there are still some mask requirements on, e.g., London underground, but 50% compliance? There is some talk of introducing a vaccine passport for nightclubs, football grounds in a month or two. For me, the mood in London is "we've had enough, it's endemic, let's live with it".
cm2187 5y ago
These herd immunity thresholds assumed that vaccinated people do not transmit the virus, but it appears that they do. Vaccines seem to be very efficient at preventing complications, which is great and good enough to neutralise this virus. But they don't seem to have made a dent into this summer's cases numbers. It doesn't look like vaccines will prevent the virus from circulating. Hospitalisation rates have been pretty much flat vs previous waves (there was no wave last summer).
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "It doesn't look like vaccines will prevent the virus from circulating." Do you have some numbers? As far as I know, it indeed supresses the virus from circulating, it just doesn't stop it completely. Here in my area, which started early with broad vaccinations - the numbers are way down.

dota_fanatic 5y ago

Aren't the vaccines still not available for those under 12? And they're emergency use only in many of those countries? Not sure how you can say any country, even Israel, is "close to full vaccination". 28% of their population is 14 and under. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Age_structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Age_str...

peteradio 5y ago
1 year ago the hive mind was buzzing about protecting the "elderly/infirm" with the warp drive wunder drugs. So it shouldn't be surprising that "full vaccination" might be calculated with "elderly/infirm" pop in the denominator.
lokedhs 5y ago
There are studies ongoing and Singapore is planning to vaccinate kids below 12 as early as next year. https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/3rd-shot-covid-19-vaccine-very-likely-children-below-12-be-vaccinated-next-year https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/3rd-shot-covid-19-vaccine-...

blacktriangle 5y ago

Yes, yes they do. And they're even starting to be honest about it, look at the press coming out of NZ and Scotland. Many of us called this the second the lockdowns started and we were right. Coronavirus is real, but it's nothing more than another SARS, H1N1, Hong Kong flu, etc. The only difference between now and then is now governments were prepped for a full on power grab.

SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
> Coronavirus is real, but it's nothing more than another SARS, H1N1, Hong Kong flu, etc. SARS in 2002-2004 killed 811 people. H1N1 killed 18,500 in 2009. Neither of those had the sort of mass lock-downs mitigating their spread that we are experiencing now. I don't know about you, but I can see a big difference.

wongarsu 5y ago

The vaccination rate in the UK is 67%. A year ago the estimate was that we need about a 75% vaccination rate to reach herd immunity, and I doubt that the new mutations have pushed that number down.

fatfox 5y ago
Yes, with the Delta variant herd immunity seems out of reach according to experts, as vaccines can't completely stop transmission: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-renders-herd-immunity-from-covid-mythical https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-... https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/02/herd-immunity-might-be-impossible-even-vaccines/617973/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/02/herd-immu...
- ummwhat 5y ago
  That's not strictly settled science. The truth is herd immunity / lack thereof is well within the error bars of the vaccine efficacy / R0 estimates. We don't actually know, but it looks like the delta curve is peaking in some areas so my bet is in favor of herd immunity.

pm215 5y ago

The article's answer to this question is "the eventuality of endemic COVID-19 does not mean we should drop all precautions. The more we can flatten the curve now, the less hospitals will become overwhelmed". There are currently ~6000 COVID patients in hospital, which is a little less than 1/6 of the Jan 2021 peak and over 1/4 of the April 2020 peak. Which is to say, manageable right now but probably not something you want to let burn much hotter than that.

HarryHirsch 5y ago

Israel has close to full vaccination, yet cases are going up because immunity is falling again and there are new variants. It's understandable why the restrictions are back again.

leoedin 5y ago
But what's the end goal? Do we keep lockdown restrictions forever? The case fatality rate for a vaccinated population is really low. There must be an acceptable level - after all we don't lock down for other endemic viruses which also have non-zero CFRs. What is it? Have we reached it?
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  We'll have to have some restrictions in place for the highest-risk activities. I really wouldn't want to give introductory lectures in a room that seats 250 people and has been in use all day and then find out, like the Reverend Jackson, that the vaccine protection has worn off.
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    >I really wouldn't want to give introductory lectures in a room that seats 250 people and has been in use all day and then find out, like the Reverend Jackson, that the vaccine protection has worn off. Ok then don't? No one is forcing you to go out. Let everyone else make their own decisions. I'm kinda tired of the hypochondriacs forcing everyone else to do what they want. Everyone has access to the vaccine, they can stay in and mask all they want, they do not have to go near people. There's absolutely no reason to be locking down the rest of society. The only argument to keep these restrictions in place is if the hospitals get over capacity and that's not happening.
    - bmitc 5y ago
      > if the hospitals get over capacity and that's not happening It’s happening in quite a few places.

rgrieselhuber 5y ago

Yes

andyjohnson0 5y ago

> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There are almost no UK legal restrictions relating to covid. There are some rules about people returning from certain high risk countries. And unvaccinated people who test positive still have to self isolate. And that's about it. Many people (like myself) still wear masks in busy indoor locations. And many are choosing to forego foreign holidays this summer. Life here in the UK doesn't feel entirely normal, but it's much much nearer to pre-pandemic conditions than this time last year.

whoooooo123 5y ago
> many are choosing to forego foreign holidays this summer "Choosing" is a strange way to put it when COVID testing and quarantine requirements have added hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of pounds to the cost of most foreign holidays and the rules are changing so frequently and suddenly that it's a big financial risk to book anything more than a few days in advance.

Expirat 5y ago

> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK Because it s not about the pandemic. It s about asserting control over population and making them obey whatever govts, ongs, big pharma or big corps come up with. A kind of a mass scale social engineering project. Edit: this btw doesn t need to be some sort of a secret group project. It can rise naturally and decentralized among many connected decision groups(govts, academia, big corps, etc) which already happened.

bodge5000 5y ago
A pandemic seems like an awfully long and expensive way of doing that, especially considering they already did so before the pandemic through so many means (many of which actually make them money rather than cost them, I assume you pay taxes?) The only group who can be said to have really profited off this is pharma. Maybe they have orchestrated the whole thing, but I'd like to see some evidence first.
- whoooooo123 5y ago
  The pandemic doesn't need to have been deliberately engineered; it only needed to provide an opportunity for nefarious actors to exploit. Unless you think we're living through the only crisis in history which powerful people haven't exploited to further their existing agendas.
  - bodge5000 5y ago
    Well again that's not particularly new, even outside a crisis, that's part of every day life. Your hardly a nefarious actor if you're not exploiting anything.
- elastic_is_slow 5y ago
  > A pandemic seems like an awfully long and expensive way of doing that... Actually a pandemic is a great way of establishing control and surveillance. Read Michel Foucault's analysis of the way the plague has shaped the society and power play between decision makers and average citizens. https://foucault.info/documents/foucault.disciplineAndPunish.panOpticism/ https://foucault.info/documents/foucault.disciplineAndPunish... > The only group who can be said to have really profited off this is pharma. Really? The rich getting richer off the lockdown doesn't count? The governments getting excuses to strengthen the hold on their citizens? Two groups off the top of my head. Also don t try to find some ulterior motif for all of this(conspiracy ppl do this a lot), it can very well be done just for the sake of it.

Alex3917 5y ago

> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK If you get it after being vaccinated, you still have a ~20% chance of becoming disabled.

josephcsible 5y ago
That's a really extraordinary claim with no evidence whatsoever.
- Alex3917 5y ago
  How does this not count as evidence?: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/well/live/vaccine-long-covid-breakthrough-infection.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/well/live/vaccine-long-co... It literally says: "While most of the breakthrough cases were mild or asymptomatic, seven out of 36 workers tracked at six weeks (19 percent) still had persistent symptoms. These long Covid symptoms included a mix of prolonged loss of smell, persistent cough, fatigue, weakness, labored breathing or muscle pain." It's certainly not great data, but it's still the best information we have as of right now.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    I don't think very many reasonable people would count a "persistent cough" as "becoming disabled".
    - Alex3917 5y ago
      When you have a persistent cough due to lung damage then your chances of death the next time you catch a minor illness go through the roof. It's why so many of the people who survived SARS initially are no longer alive.
  - lp0_on_fire 5y ago
    calling that "disabled" is incredibly misleading to the point of being disingenuous.

modzu 5y ago

once you have power its hard to give it up

staticassertion 5y ago

The UK seems to have a 62% full vaccination rate with 71% having at least one dose[0]. That sounds really low to me. "Close to full vaccination" to me would imply close to 100% or, reading "full" as "reaching herd immunity" I'd think 70-80% fully vaccinated - still a very long way to go. I hear you that we will eventually reach a point where we've hit the new normal. It's just going to be whether that point is reached because we've given up (due to people refusing to vaccinate) or because we've managed to vaccinate enough. I think many people aren't ready to give up. Personally, the restrictions are quite meaningless to me in the US, but I can imagine that that's just because I get to work from home and all that. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/united-kingdom-covid-cases.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/united-kingdo...

ekianjo 5y ago
> That sounds really low to me. Low compared to what? Do you know the vaccinations rates for all other diseases for which we have vaccines for?
- staticassertion 5y ago
  Low compared to my third fucking sentence jesus christ.
NonContro 5y ago
92% of Brits have COVID antibodies, either through exposure or immunity: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-around-nine-in-10-adults-in-most-parts-of-uk-likely-to-have-virus-antibodies-ons-data-says-12350776 https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-around-nine-in-10-adults...
- phreeza 5y ago
  92% of the Brits eligible for vaccination.
- staticassertion 5y ago
  That feels a little selective. > Latest estimates from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show 89.8% of adults in England are likely to have the antibodies, with the highest percentage of adults testing positive for them estimated to be the age groups 60 to 64, 70 to 74 and 75 to 79 (all 96.8%). > The lowest percentage was for 16 to 24-year-olds at around 59.7%. The 92% (91.8% cited) is presumably from this sentence? > In Wales, 91.8% of adults are estimated to have antibodies in their system

sleepysysadmin 5y ago

>That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. There isn't really a next step after having vaccinated the population, it is "steady state". So do they want us to have these restrictions (countries you can't travel to, endless testing, mask requirements) forever? Our government loves to pat themselves on the back having 80% vaccination. Which is more than double the usual flu shot rates. Yet here we are with a 4th wave, talk about complete lockdown. At what point do you say that our approach is no different than the usual flu season? In my opinion that was long ago. So why? Technically don't know the answer. You can look at it from liberties point of view. That the reason these restrictions haven't lifted has nothing to do with covid. Another theory which seems legit. Vaccine doesnt work. If you follow texas gov abbot. TONS of articles slamming him for getting covid. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/17/texas-gov-abbott-who-banned-mask-mandates-tests-positive-for-covid.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/17/texas-gov-abbott-who-banned-... Texas Gov. Abbott, who banned mask and vaccine mandates, tests positive for Covid But wait... Abbott is fully vaccinated. That's a huge issue. You can't slam him banning masks and all that. Vaccination is vaccination. Article title should be "Texas Gov. Abbott, who is fully vaccinated, tests positive for Covid" But that's where the politics of the situation come in. It's very evident covid-19 is completely influenced by politics. Which brings you right back to liberties point of view.

chitowneats 5y ago
Greg Abbot even received a booster shot prior to infection. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/texas-gov-greg-abbott-tests-positive-covid-n1277021 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/texas-gov-gre...
dragonwriter 5y ago
> But wait... Abbott is fully vaccinated. That's a huge issue. No, its not. While the rates are somewhat higher with Delta, breakthrough infections were always expected. The accines reduce the probability of getting COVID with similar exposure, they don't 100% prevent it. > You can't slam him banning masks and all that. Yes, you can. Even if schools weren't full of unvaccinated people, which they are, the existence of breakthrough infections would underline why banning mask mandates is a culpablr error.

jrockway 5y ago

Maybe "mask requirements" are a sign of society advancing? There was a time in human history when we didn't bathe regularly, or brush our teeth, or have sewage removal systems in cities, etc. Maybe the next step is "you know, breathing in particles that came from the other 600 people in this railcar is not so great". I certainly don't see a reason to go maskless on public transportation in the future. And, as supply chain problems work themselves out, someone will probably make masks that actually filter out virus-size particles and fit more people's faces. (I feel like every mask I've bought so far during the pandemic has either been completely ineffective, or has been designed to fit someone that is 1/3 my size.)

josephcsible 5y ago
You're saying society should keep wearing masks everywhere literally forever? That's so insane I can't tell whether you're even serious.
- geofft 5y ago
  Is there a particular reason you think that people shouldn't keep wearing masks everywhere literally forever, or is it just that it hurts your feelings? Barely a century ago, it wasn't common for doctors to wash their hands, because it hurt doctors' feelings. Dr. Charles Meigs, an obstetrician, said, "Doctors are gentlemen and a gentleman's hands are clean." But, of course, factually they weren't clean, factually they were full of germs, and factually Dr. Meigs was killing several of the people he operated on through his unclean hands. There was factual data that infant mortality dropped significantly in clinics where doctors were washing their hands. But the response to hand-washing was much like yours. "You're saying society should keep washing hands everywhere literally forever? That's so insane I can't tell whether you're even serious." And in fact they sent the doctor who suggested hand-washing to an insane asylum, where he died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz_Semmelweis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz...
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Doctors washing their hands saves way more lives than masks do, and hand washing doesn't have negative side effects like masks do (e.g., constantly fogging up glasses, and keeping people who are hard of hearing from reading lips).

KineticLensman 5y ago

> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK I cracked some ribs three weeks ago and coughing / sneezing are really painful. I am keeping my mask on because I really don't want even a mild cough, for whatever reason. More generally, the vaccines are not 100% effective, the virus can still be transmitted and spread. For lots of people, getting COVID is still life threatening, even if the average case is not as bad as it used to be.

2trill2spill 5y ago
So you want country wide restrictions solely for your own comfort? Sounds incredibly selfish.
- s5300 5y ago
  You really don't see the irony in this statement, do you.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  That is exactly what people are asking for and it is super selfish. Asking everybody to hunker down to assuage people who continue to be afraid. Sorry. Life is short. I’ve sacrificed 1.6 years of it for something I’ve never been afraid of. I’ve played by all the rules, but enough is enough. It is super selfish to insist we continue to live this way. We aren’t living, we are being kept alive… life was meant to be lived.
  - op00to 5y ago
    Wow you’re so tough and edgy. You must have very thick chest hair or whatever you’re trying to compensate for with this rediculous machismo.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      Machismo? Dude. 1.6 years is a non trivial amount of my life. I’ve already put my career on hold because of this, sacrificed my daughters well being, and a bunch of stuff. I got the shot. I’m fully vaccinated. How much more do you expect from me in order to protect people who don’t want to get vaccinated? The only person who truly looks after my well-being is me. I can be selfish. I deserve to have my actual normal life back. My 2019 life didnt revolve around worrying about stopping the spread of exactly one very specific disease. If y’all want to hide under the bed at home until some undefined end date… go for it. But forcing society to do the same with you is incredibly selfish.

geofft 5y ago

Long-term mask-wearing seem like an entirely reasonable social change. It's like any other clothing: you're protecting a vulnerable part of your body and also displaying respect for others. And it's mostly enforced by social norms: though in many places it is in fact illegal to go without clothing, people wear clothes regardless of the law. (I was in San Francisco at the time the public nudity ban, or shall we call it the "clothing requirement," was passed, and I can assure you that people were generally clothed in San Francisco even before then.) As another comment pointed out the other day (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28255121 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28255121), it's not just going to be SARS-nCoV-2. There's going to be a lot more easily communicable diseases in the future in dense locations. And there was the first SARS, of course, and countries hit hard by the first SARS already adopted a norm of mask-wearing in crowded locations like public transit, which helps them with other diseases that are "here forever" like the seasonal flu. I think mask-wearing in public is going to become a sign of basic respect and decency and hygiene. We're already comfortable with "No shoes, no shirt, no service."

swader999 5y ago
Hard no to that.
q-rews 5y ago
People love downvoting 'round here, but the comment is sensible. Don't shoot the messenger, even if we all hate the news they bring.

superkuh 5y ago

Spread of sars-cov-2 in human populations can be stopped. It first requires intramuscular vaccination to provide IgG antibodies in the body proper to prevent serious disease and then just as importantly, an intranasal vaccination to provide resident B and T cells in the surface mucosa tissues of the upper respiratory tract where the B cells will make local IgA antibodies and provide sterilizing immunity and prevent spread from person to person. Intranasal boosters are the one obvious thing we could do top-down to end the pandemic and only have to deal with epidemics. ref: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6553/397 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6553/397 ref: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/long-term-evolution-of-sars-cov-2-26-july-2021 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/long-term-evoluti... page 5, #8. "Whilst we feel that current vaccines are excellent for reducing the risk of hospital admission and disease, we propose that research be focused on vaccines that also induce high and durable levels of mucosal immunity in order to reduce infection of and transmission from vaccinated individuals. This could also reduce the possibility of variant selection in vaccinated individuals." ref: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-021-00550-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-021-00550-x

basisword 5y ago

The UK dropped all restrictions with the exception of some travel related restrictions (to prevent the import of variants that could breakthrough the vaccine). Any restrictions you see in the UK are implemented by businesses/local government (e.g. masks on the tube, or in some shops).

switch007 5y ago
That is fake news, sorry The law to imprison yourself (isolate) still is very much a law.

howaboutnope 5y ago

Well, it's been profitable so far, so of course it's going to get milked for as long as possible. https://inequality.org/great-divide/updates-billionaire-pandemic/ https://inequality.org/great-divide/updates-billionaire-pand...

AndrewDucker 5y ago

To slow the spread so that hospitals are not overwhelmed. You can be up for letting it spread through everyone, but not think that letting everyone catch it at once is sensible.

Synaesthesia 5y ago

The UK already went ahead and reponed prematurely with a huge influx of new cases following

justin66 5y ago

> That's why I don't really understand why there are still covid restrictions in countries that are close to full vaccination, like the UK. Until the number needed for herd immunity is achieved, the 30% (or whatever) of your population that is not vaccinated can suffer devastating spikes in cases. Mostly having herd immunity is not a thing.