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These don't have "minor" loopholes to renovation or occupation. Typically these will require the use of licensed craftsmen who can restore the building if they

These don't have "minor" loopholes to renovation or occupation. Typically these will require the use of licensed craftsmen who can restore the building if they are the older style, and almost all will require 5-10 year occupation agreements and/or agreements to productively farm the land it comes with. Further, there are strict restrictions on ownership by foreigners, and most of the akiya bank properties aren't eligible last I looked. Those that are will have little to no internet, you will be an hour or more away from a decent sized city, and you'd better be fluent in Japanese because noone in these communities will be fluent in anything else. Even signage in many of these places is lacking the English foreigners that have traveled there will be used to. For reference I've lived in Japan, have a Japanese spouse, and my children are dual citizens. We have investigated this going on 15 years now and it's just not something you'd want to take on, if you were able to, most of the time.

jdhn 5y ago
I'm curious as to what the rules on foreign ownership are. Is it an outright ban, or can it be circumnavigated by having a Japanese lawyer draw up some sort of agreement where they are the owner, but the foreigner pays them $X a month, or something like that?
- rootsudo 5y ago
  There are anti-dummy laws in Japan.
- CobaltFire 5y ago
  These require residence at the property, and if you can't get a residency permit (rather difficult for the amount of time needed by this agreement) then it's a defacto no foreigners rule for these homes.
- henearkr 5y ago
  Some estate agencies, who don't want to sell estate to a foreigner but would not openly say it, just let some other Japanese customer (who appeared suddenly) take the precedence and buy instead of you. Source: unfortunately I can relate...
  - jowsie 5y ago
    It doesn't even have to be that underhanded. Many rental agencies will ask house owners if they want foreigners or not, it's a simple tick box.
    - henearkr 5y ago
      Yes but in this case it's to sell it not to rent it. I can (almost) understand that you don't want foreigners in the apartment that you own, but in this case they don't even want to receive money -- the same amount -- from foreign buyers, and in this case it's clearly because they want to protect their village from "being invaded". Yes pretty ridiculous, but unfortunately very common.
rootsudo 5y ago
There is no strict laws on foreign ownership, most of the time this falls under the idea that people/foreigners think owning land gives you a right to reside in the country. It does not. Then not knowing procedures or having a Hanko is extremely detrimental to doing any paperwork in Japan. Internet is not an issue, NTT will give you internet within 3 months, and there is always unlimited 4g/5g subscriptions. Being in the Inaka is an experience itself, and you need to know the language. I agree.
- CobaltFire 5y ago
  Given that these require residency, there is a defacto restriction on ownership for those without the means to get a long term visa or residency permit. I was not aware of NTT getting you internet; thanks for that info! I seem to recall the wireless unlimited plans being rather expensive, but it's been a while. Yes, Japanese government is it's own special issue. Hanko being an always fun issue for people! I absolutely LOVE being in the Inaka. When my in-laws shut down their business they moved a little ways out, and we regularly visit their family friends in the mountains at their Onsen, which is a solid 40 minutes from anyone else at all.
  - rootsudo 5y ago
    Yep, as long as you have utilities, then you can get NTT Fiber. It is much easier if it has a pre-existing phone line active, or sometime per-existing. Considering these properties were most likely occupied during the 1970's-1990's, a phone line most likely is present so it is on the "books" as serviceable. If not, you get the phone line service first if you must. Alternatively you can also look in TOWNPAGE for the address and see if it shows up.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    NTT Flets coverage is really good since they'll replace PSTN by FTTH. Wireless unlimited (*with speed limit for heavy users) internet is now affordable thanks to 5G plan.
- derefr 5y ago
  Parent comment said "restrictions" on ownership by foreigners, not "laws". The "restrictions" are semi-informal, barriers put in place as needed, in the form of a bunch of extra costly-to-satisfy red tape that isn't usually insisted upon, but which becomes a "must have" if you're someone the local Japanese-nationalist NIMBYs don't want living there. (I would note that white people aren't likely to be hardest-hit by these "restrictions." Consider which ethnic groups an elderly Japanese person would remember directly fighting against in a previous war. Those same elderly Japanese people now form the inaka's governments, so AFAICT those same ethnic groups are most resisted.)
ashtonkem 5y ago
Anytime something seems too good to be true, it usually is.
aero-glide2 5y ago
Shouldn't be a problem with Starlink, $100/month for 50-100Mbps.
- marcinzm 5y ago
  You mean except for the part where isn't not available in Japan right now.
  - ctdonath 5y ago
    By now before Starlink becomes available and a flood of people jump on the opportunity - happening soon.
  - aero-glide2 5y ago
    Arriving 2022 for Japan.
dpedu 5y ago
How much have things changed in these 15 years? Are prices and regulation rising or falling?
- CobaltFire 5y ago
  It's been pretty static, honestly.
tvanantwerp 5y ago
Reminds me of an economics joke: Two economists are walking down the street. One spots a $20 bill on the sidewalk. He bends to pick it up, but his companion stops him. "If there really were free money in the street," the companion says, "then somebody else would've picked it up before now."
- dathinab 5y ago
  I don't like the joke, tbh. Because: - In somewhat professional bussiness areas there is in general no free mony, but not because no one picked it up but because no one would place the money down/accidentally let it fall down without noticing. - But in specific contexts there is "free money" it's just that "in general" this context doesn't apply to you, e.g. there if you are Japanese person who wants to spend the next decade farming in the country side this might be a awesome deal for you. - But the "mony on the ground" analogy represents a "general but rare" situation, not a "very specific context", but you can find money on the ground and it's always worth picking it up, BUT you should check if there is a string attached to it (in that case literally ;=)). So for me the joke sounds like what someone would try to argue in self defense when doing a bad deal to reason that all is fine because they are not "blind sighted economists". In my environment (or more precise that of my dad) I have seen people going in that direction of "picking up free money" and making exactly this kind of jokes only to lose all the money they had maneuvering themself into a situation of basically falling into poverty not long before they normally could have gone into a nice reasonable wealthy retirement...
  - tacostakohashi 5y ago
    The humor in the joke comes from the mismatch between economic theory and reality.
    - alentist 5y ago
      Elaborate, because it sounds like a strawman.
      - 5y ago
jimmaswell 5y ago
We could do with some strict rules on foreign ownership here in the US. Seems questionable when all the housing in a neighborhood is owned by Chinese investment firms.
- Hnrobert42 5y ago
  Probably the occupancy requirement would take care of the issue better.
  - hellbannedguy 5y ago
    In my neighborhood, many are occupied by a non-english speaking person, or small family. (I'm not saying anything racist. I just know a few individuals whom shop at Safeway whom live in million plus homes that don't speak English. I feel we need more that a occupancy requirement. We need some hard requirements, a long with not allowing hedge funds to buy homes. This goes for American corporations too.)
    - rfrey 5y ago
      Some hard requirements that go beyond occupancy rules and forbidding hedge funds from buying houses. What are your suggestions?
- csomar 5y ago
  So only US persons and companies can buy in the US right? That means Chinese investment firms can still buy but dude who is on some long-term visa can't. Either way, real estate should be a free market. In the same vein you can buy any real estate you like, a seller should be able to sell to any entity that's giving him the better price.
  - jimmaswell 5y ago
    I think real estate has proven to be somewhat of a market failure when so much is taken up by landlords and investment firms driving up prices without providing much or any value. The pandemic has only made this worse as big firms ride out the storms and buy even more land on the cheap to rent back out at an obscene profit. My parents used to pay $1000 a month in rent for a property that I know the taxes on amounted to maybe $3000 a year, and the landlord rarely did anything else than pay that tax. Sent a bargain basement repair guy out a few times to fix the heater maybe. That's 300% profit for nothing, pure rent seeking behavior. That's not good for society. More needs to be done to encourage individual home ownership and discourage people having no choice but to send a third to half of their income into a black hole every month.
Karrot_Kream 5y ago
I know this is off-topic and not your fault in any way, but I'm tired of the "spousal perspective" on this site when it comes to East Asia. Somehow most of the East Asian perspectives we get here are partners of East Asian folks, despite East Asia having lots and lots of engineers.
- math-dev 5y ago
  I understand your perspective. However the solution is for those native to East Asia to post, not non natives to post less. I agree that more viewpoints is better, just wanted to point that
- CobaltFire 5y ago
  Does that make my perspective as someone who lived there invalid? In this case the "spousal perspective" is that we aren't subject to many of these barriers and we STILL aren't purchasing one due to the remaining barriers and issues.
  - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
    It most definitely does not, and as I said it's not your fault in any way. I would just appreciate more non-spousal perspectives, especially when it comes to things like Japanese nationalism where it helps to have a Japanese perspective.
    - hattori31 5y ago
      Speak Japanese then.
      - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
        もう分かりますけど？
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  You're going to have to take what you can get on an English-speaking forum. Move to a Japanese forum and you can find all the Japanese perspectives you want.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
simonebrunozzi 5y ago
Thanks. Out of curiosity, do you still live in Japan? Or, if not, what do you miss it the most?
- CobaltFire 5y ago
  I moved back last year in the middle of the pandemic. Honestly, life in Japan is much more relaxed for me. I’m not as competitive, not as wrapped up in being successful. That’s a very individual thing, but that disconnect was my favorite thing. I know I was an outsider and I was fine with that.
  - simonebrunozzi 5y ago
    Thanks. Were you in Tokyo, or elsewhere? I spent 3 months in Kyoto in 2020 (just at the beginning of the pandemic) and really liked it there. Would love to go back for a few more months in 2022, and possibly study some basic Japanese (I only learned some Hiragana so far)
ddoran 5y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Japan does not allow dual citizenship ... rather your children are young enough that they have not had to declare their ultimate citizenship? My wife and I are naturalized US citizens. My country of origin allows me to retain dual citizenship, as does the US, but my wife was obliged to renounce her Japanese citizenship when she became a US citizen. It's annoying and unfortunate that she had to do so.
- CobaltFire 5y ago
  Japan does not consider someone an adult capable of making that decision until they are 20. Further, they won't force the decision (nor will the US) even after that point. This leads to interesting issues. One such individual was in training with me but had to sit and wait 6 months until he turned 20 to renounce his Japanese citizenship so that he could obtain a clearance. This was 20 years ago, so things may have changed.
hintymad 5y ago
A side topic: I also find English translation of Japanese locations and names often loses much meaning. It's almost unbearable to live in Japan and uses only English translation. For instance, Miyamasou does not mean a thing for English-speaking foreigners, but the corresponding Kanji or Chinese translation, 美山庄，means a ton.

jdhn 5y ago

I'm curious as to what the rules on foreign ownership are. Is it an outright ban, or can it be circumnavigated by having a Japanese lawyer draw up some sort of agreement where they are the owner, but the foreigner pays them $X a month, or something like that?

rootsudo 5y ago
There are anti-dummy laws in Japan.
CobaltFire 5y ago
These require residence at the property, and if you can't get a residency permit (rather difficult for the amount of time needed by this agreement) then it's a defacto no foreigners rule for these homes.
henearkr 5y ago
Some estate agencies, who don't want to sell estate to a foreigner but would not openly say it, just let some other Japanese customer (who appeared suddenly) take the precedence and buy instead of you. Source: unfortunately I can relate...
- jowsie 5y ago
  It doesn't even have to be that underhanded. Many rental agencies will ask house owners if they want foreigners or not, it's a simple tick box.
  - henearkr 5y ago
    Yes but in this case it's to sell it not to rent it. I can (almost) understand that you don't want foreigners in the apartment that you own, but in this case they don't even want to receive money -- the same amount -- from foreign buyers, and in this case it's clearly because they want to protect their village from "being invaded". Yes pretty ridiculous, but unfortunately very common.

rootsudo 5y ago

There is no strict laws on foreign ownership, most of the time this falls under the idea that people/foreigners think owning land gives you a right to reside in the country. It does not. Then not knowing procedures or having a Hanko is extremely detrimental to doing any paperwork in Japan. Internet is not an issue, NTT will give you internet within 3 months, and there is always unlimited 4g/5g subscriptions. Being in the Inaka is an experience itself, and you need to know the language. I agree.

CobaltFire 5y ago
Given that these require residency, there is a defacto restriction on ownership for those without the means to get a long term visa or residency permit. I was not aware of NTT getting you internet; thanks for that info! I seem to recall the wireless unlimited plans being rather expensive, but it's been a while. Yes, Japanese government is it's own special issue. Hanko being an always fun issue for people! I absolutely LOVE being in the Inaka. When my in-laws shut down their business they moved a little ways out, and we regularly visit their family friends in the mountains at their Onsen, which is a solid 40 minutes from anyone else at all.
- rootsudo 5y ago
  Yep, as long as you have utilities, then you can get NTT Fiber. It is much easier if it has a pre-existing phone line active, or sometime per-existing. Considering these properties were most likely occupied during the 1970's-1990's, a phone line most likely is present so it is on the "books" as serviceable. If not, you get the phone line service first if you must. Alternatively you can also look in TOWNPAGE for the address and see if it shows up.
- fomine3 5y ago
  NTT Flets coverage is really good since they'll replace PSTN by FTTH. Wireless unlimited (*with speed limit for heavy users) internet is now affordable thanks to 5G plan.
derefr 5y ago
Parent comment said "restrictions" on ownership by foreigners, not "laws". The "restrictions" are semi-informal, barriers put in place as needed, in the form of a bunch of extra costly-to-satisfy red tape that isn't usually insisted upon, but which becomes a "must have" if you're someone the local Japanese-nationalist NIMBYs don't want living there. (I would note that white people aren't likely to be hardest-hit by these "restrictions." Consider which ethnic groups an elderly Japanese person would remember directly fighting against in a previous war. Those same elderly Japanese people now form the inaka's governments, so AFAICT those same ethnic groups are most resisted.)

ashtonkem 5y ago

Anytime something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

aero-glide2 5y ago

Shouldn't be a problem with Starlink, $100/month for 50-100Mbps.

marcinzm 5y ago
You mean except for the part where isn't not available in Japan right now.
- ctdonath 5y ago
  By now before Starlink becomes available and a flood of people jump on the opportunity - happening soon.
- aero-glide2 5y ago
  Arriving 2022 for Japan.

dpedu 5y ago

How much have things changed in these 15 years? Are prices and regulation rising or falling?

CobaltFire 5y ago
It's been pretty static, honestly.

tvanantwerp 5y ago

Reminds me of an economics joke: Two economists are walking down the street. One spots a $20 bill on the sidewalk. He bends to pick it up, but his companion stops him. "If there really were free money in the street," the companion says, "then somebody else would've picked it up before now."

dathinab 5y ago
I don't like the joke, tbh. Because: - In somewhat professional bussiness areas there is in general no free mony, but not because no one picked it up but because no one would place the money down/accidentally let it fall down without noticing. - But in specific contexts there is "free money" it's just that "in general" this context doesn't apply to you, e.g. there if you are Japanese person who wants to spend the next decade farming in the country side this might be a awesome deal for you. - But the "mony on the ground" analogy represents a "general but rare" situation, not a "very specific context", but you can find money on the ground and it's always worth picking it up, BUT you should check if there is a string attached to it (in that case literally ;=)). So for me the joke sounds like what someone would try to argue in self defense when doing a bad deal to reason that all is fine because they are not "blind sighted economists". In my environment (or more precise that of my dad) I have seen people going in that direction of "picking up free money" and making exactly this kind of jokes only to lose all the money they had maneuvering themself into a situation of basically falling into poverty not long before they normally could have gone into a nice reasonable wealthy retirement...
- tacostakohashi 5y ago
  The humor in the joke comes from the mismatch between economic theory and reality.
  - alentist 5y ago
    Elaborate, because it sounds like a strawman.
    - 5y ago

jimmaswell 5y ago

We could do with some strict rules on foreign ownership here in the US. Seems questionable when all the housing in a neighborhood is owned by Chinese investment firms.

Hnrobert42 5y ago
Probably the occupancy requirement would take care of the issue better.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  In my neighborhood, many are occupied by a non-english speaking person, or small family. (I'm not saying anything racist. I just know a few individuals whom shop at Safeway whom live in million plus homes that don't speak English. I feel we need more that a occupancy requirement. We need some hard requirements, a long with not allowing hedge funds to buy homes. This goes for American corporations too.)
  - rfrey 5y ago
    Some hard requirements that go beyond occupancy rules and forbidding hedge funds from buying houses. What are your suggestions?
csomar 5y ago
So only US persons and companies can buy in the US right? That means Chinese investment firms can still buy but dude who is on some long-term visa can't. Either way, real estate should be a free market. In the same vein you can buy any real estate you like, a seller should be able to sell to any entity that's giving him the better price.
- jimmaswell 5y ago
  I think real estate has proven to be somewhat of a market failure when so much is taken up by landlords and investment firms driving up prices without providing much or any value. The pandemic has only made this worse as big firms ride out the storms and buy even more land on the cheap to rent back out at an obscene profit. My parents used to pay $1000 a month in rent for a property that I know the taxes on amounted to maybe $3000 a year, and the landlord rarely did anything else than pay that tax. Sent a bargain basement repair guy out a few times to fix the heater maybe. That's 300% profit for nothing, pure rent seeking behavior. That's not good for society. More needs to be done to encourage individual home ownership and discourage people having no choice but to send a third to half of their income into a black hole every month.

Karrot_Kream 5y ago

I know this is off-topic and not your fault in any way, but I'm tired of the "spousal perspective" on this site when it comes to East Asia. Somehow most of the East Asian perspectives we get here are partners of East Asian folks, despite East Asia having lots and lots of engineers.

math-dev 5y ago
I understand your perspective. However the solution is for those native to East Asia to post, not non natives to post less. I agree that more viewpoints is better, just wanted to point that
CobaltFire 5y ago
Does that make my perspective as someone who lived there invalid? In this case the "spousal perspective" is that we aren't subject to many of these barriers and we STILL aren't purchasing one due to the remaining barriers and issues.
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  It most definitely does not, and as I said it's not your fault in any way. I would just appreciate more non-spousal perspectives, especially when it comes to things like Japanese nationalism where it helps to have a Japanese perspective.
  - hattori31 5y ago
    Speak Japanese then.
    - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
      もう分かりますけど？
thaumasiotes 5y ago
You're going to have to take what you can get on an English-speaking forum. Move to a Japanese forum and you can find all the Japanese perspectives you want.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

simonebrunozzi 5y ago

Thanks. Out of curiosity, do you still live in Japan? Or, if not, what do you miss it the most?

CobaltFire 5y ago
I moved back last year in the middle of the pandemic. Honestly, life in Japan is much more relaxed for me. I’m not as competitive, not as wrapped up in being successful. That’s a very individual thing, but that disconnect was my favorite thing. I know I was an outsider and I was fine with that.
- simonebrunozzi 5y ago
  Thanks. Were you in Tokyo, or elsewhere? I spent 3 months in Kyoto in 2020 (just at the beginning of the pandemic) and really liked it there. Would love to go back for a few more months in 2022, and possibly study some basic Japanese (I only learned some Hiragana so far)

ddoran 5y ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Japan does not allow dual citizenship ... rather your children are young enough that they have not had to declare their ultimate citizenship? My wife and I are naturalized US citizens. My country of origin allows me to retain dual citizenship, as does the US, but my wife was obliged to renounce her Japanese citizenship when she became a US citizen. It's annoying and unfortunate that she had to do so.

CobaltFire 5y ago
Japan does not consider someone an adult capable of making that decision until they are 20. Further, they won't force the decision (nor will the US) even after that point. This leads to interesting issues. One such individual was in training with me but had to sit and wait 6 months until he turned 20 to renounce his Japanese citizenship so that he could obtain a clearance. This was 20 years ago, so things may have changed.

hintymad 5y ago

A side topic: I also find English translation of Japanese locations and names often loses much meaning. It's almost unbearable to live in Japan and uses only English translation. For instance, Miyamasou does not mean a thing for English-speaking foreigners, but the corresponding Kanji or Chinese translation, 美山庄，means a ton.