11 ms·

Tensions rise as Iranian dams cut off Iraqi water supplies

138 points by samizdis 5y ago

notjustanymike 5y ago
Here's a database of water conflicts going back over 6,000 years: http://www.worldwater.org/conflict/list/ http://www.worldwater.org/conflict/list/
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  Because of course there's a database of water conflicts going back over 6,000 years. I mean, why wouldn't that be a thing? There's probably a database of pokemon conflicts, so it shouldn't feel so surprising... Anyway, thanks! > Two members of the right-wing "Order of the Rising Sun" are arrested in Chicago with 30-40 kg of typhoid cultures with which they allegedly planned to poison the water supply in Chicago, St. Louis, and other cities. Experts say the plan is unlikely to cause health problems due to water chlorination. I actually burst out laughing. "My dastardly plan! twirls moustache Foiled by... chlorine! How could anyone have known?" Quite the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPUgjy-Pn-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPUgjy-Pn-4 vibe. This is my new favorite database. Especially when the first entry is "God Punishes Man with Six-Day Storm" and the Conflict Type is classified as "Weapon".
  - dstick 5y ago
    Not quite a database, nor the type of Pokemon conflict you were probably looking for, but at least it's a good read! https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/8siha6/father_and_adult_son_hold_down_beat_man_over/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/8siha6/father_an...
  - jerf 5y ago
    The timezone database is also a surprising amount of fun: https://blog.jonudell.net/2009/10/23/a-literary-appreciation-of-the-olsonzoneinfotz-database/ https://blog.jonudell.net/2009/10/23/a-literary-appreciation...
- zetalyrae 5y ago
  They should merge that with the Seshat databank[0], Peter Turchin's quant history project. [0]: http://seshatdatabank.info/ http://seshatdatabank.info/
- 2dvisio 5y ago
  Just saying: 1503 - Florence plan to cut Pisa's water Weapon - Republic of Florence - Southern Europe Leonardo da Vinci and Machiavelli plan to divert Arno River away from Pisa during conflict between Pisa and Florence (Italy).
  - irrational 5y ago
    TIL that da Vinci and Machiavelli were contemporaries.
joelbluminator 5y ago
This must be Israel's fault!
mc32 5y ago
I have to refer back to these long traditional rivals when I read people waxing poetic about the prospect of erasing international borders and becoming a brotherhood of man and then at the same time rejecting homogenization of culture. You can’t eat your cake and have it. These are two historic rivals. Maybe with the right governments they can work out deals like we work out with Canada and Mexico with regard to shared resources —but I’m not holding my breath on this given the Kurds are kind of the out group within the Iraqi family and probably won’t get full support from the central govt.
- bingohbangoh 5y ago
  "...but I’m not holding my breath on this given the Kurds are kind of the out group within the Iraqi family and probably won’t get full support from the central govt." Are Kurds treated better within Iran? My understanding is that they're a pariah everywhere in the Middle East
  - mc32 5y ago
    They’re treated poorly in all three major countries there, Iran, Iraq and Turkey. The brits should have carved out a country for them, for they are different enough to deserve their own self determination. If we didn’t have Turkey in NATO and hadn’t messed with Iraq we could have helped the formation of Kurdistan, but there’s no guarantee these three wouldn’t have steamrolled them to prevent potential fragmentation from other internal out groups. Unfortunately in the 1800s as other geographies fought wars to rid differences to achieve unification, things were too tribal to achieve that there. I guess the idea of Mesopotamia was too distant to serve as a glue for all the different interests.
    - jgeada 5y ago
      The Brits intentionally created unstable countries so that none could rival them in power in a region. All those countries were too busy dealing with internal strife to become regional competitors to England.
kingsloi 5y ago
I've found myself randomly in hour long documentaries on the most diverse subjects thanks to DW.
1-6 5y ago
I wonder how much the water to oil exchange rate is.
- vnchr 5y ago
  My understanding is they don't mix well.
  - loofatoofa 5y ago
    This zinger was worth it
- cestith 5y ago
  It takes quite a bit of energy to pump water, ship it in containers, or desalinate seawater. At some point I think maybe that becomes just as relevant as the cost of each in currency terms when you're trying to provide for a sovereign nation's people.
adventured 5y ago
Reminds me a bit of the water conflict that has been unfolding in Africa between Ethiopia, Egypt and Sudan regarding the Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-57734885 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-57734885
baybal2 5y ago
Timing... Iran is going through an extreme drought, yes, but...
odiroot 5y ago
Is 21st century going to be all about wars over water sources?
- NotSammyHagar 5y ago
  I think it will be democracies vs. China,and the outcome is in doubt.
stickfigure 5y ago
> As far as the Iranian authorities are concerned, "Iraq's interests are irrelevant," she adds bluntly. I'm pretty sure that Iraq has missiles capable of destroying dams. Seems like that would be a relevant bargaining point.
- robot_no_419 5y ago
  I'm confident that Iran could and would completely flatten Iraq if it came to that. They are not comparable in terms of military strength.
ip26 5y ago
"Unless Iran harnesses its water resources, the country will hit a major crisis by 2036 and will face mass migration," said Banafsheh Keynoush, a fellow at the International Institute for Iranian Studies and former consultant to the World Bank. As far as the Iranian authorities are concerned, "Iraq's interests are irrelevant," she adds bluntly. Isn't an Iraq-in-water-crisis also a mass migration event for neighboring Iran?
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  Irrelevant, apparently.
m23khan 5y ago
Iranian water concerns aside, I wonder how much of Iran's decision-making in this situation is tied with Iran's fixation on keeping Iraq in check / within Iran's political sphere.
imtringued 5y ago
Why isn't Iran investing into center pivot irrigation systems?
encryptluks2 5y ago
Dang... The MIC must be needing money right now with this and Afghanistan
User23 5y ago
The California Water Wars are really interesting[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_water_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_water_wars

138 points by samizdis 5y ago

Here's a database of water conflicts going back over 6,000 years: http://www.worldwater.org/conflict/list/ http://www.worldwater.org/conflict/list/

sillysaurusx 5y ago
Because of course there's a database of water conflicts going back over 6,000 years. I mean, why wouldn't that be a thing? There's probably a database of pokemon conflicts, so it shouldn't feel so surprising... Anyway, thanks! > Two members of the right-wing "Order of the Rising Sun" are arrested in Chicago with 30-40 kg of typhoid cultures with which they allegedly planned to poison the water supply in Chicago, St. Louis, and other cities. Experts say the plan is unlikely to cause health problems due to water chlorination. I actually burst out laughing. "My dastardly plan! twirls moustache Foiled by... chlorine! How could anyone have known?" Quite the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPUgjy-Pn-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPUgjy-Pn-4 vibe. This is my new favorite database. Especially when the first entry is "God Punishes Man with Six-Day Storm" and the Conflict Type is classified as "Weapon".
- dstick 5y ago
  Not quite a database, nor the type of Pokemon conflict you were probably looking for, but at least it's a good read! https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/8siha6/father_and_adult_son_hold_down_beat_man_over/ https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongo/comments/8siha6/father_an...
- jerf 5y ago
  The timezone database is also a surprising amount of fun: https://blog.jonudell.net/2009/10/23/a-literary-appreciation-of-the-olsonzoneinfotz-database/ https://blog.jonudell.net/2009/10/23/a-literary-appreciation...
zetalyrae 5y ago
They should merge that with the Seshat databank[0], Peter Turchin's quant history project. [0]: http://seshatdatabank.info/ http://seshatdatabank.info/
2dvisio 5y ago
Just saying: 1503 - Florence plan to cut Pisa's water Weapon - Republic of Florence - Southern Europe Leonardo da Vinci and Machiavelli plan to divert Arno River away from Pisa during conflict between Pisa and Florence (Italy).
- irrational 5y ago
  TIL that da Vinci and Machiavelli were contemporaries.

joelbluminator 5y ago

This must be Israel's fault!

mc32 5y ago

I have to refer back to these long traditional rivals when I read people waxing poetic about the prospect of erasing international borders and becoming a brotherhood of man and then at the same time rejecting homogenization of culture. You can’t eat your cake and have it. These are two historic rivals. Maybe with the right governments they can work out deals like we work out with Canada and Mexico with regard to shared resources —but I’m not holding my breath on this given the Kurds are kind of the out group within the Iraqi family and probably won’t get full support from the central govt.

bingohbangoh 5y ago
"...but I’m not holding my breath on this given the Kurds are kind of the out group within the Iraqi family and probably won’t get full support from the central govt." Are Kurds treated better within Iran? My understanding is that they're a pariah everywhere in the Middle East
- mc32 5y ago
  They’re treated poorly in all three major countries there, Iran, Iraq and Turkey. The brits should have carved out a country for them, for they are different enough to deserve their own self determination. If we didn’t have Turkey in NATO and hadn’t messed with Iraq we could have helped the formation of Kurdistan, but there’s no guarantee these three wouldn’t have steamrolled them to prevent potential fragmentation from other internal out groups. Unfortunately in the 1800s as other geographies fought wars to rid differences to achieve unification, things were too tribal to achieve that there. I guess the idea of Mesopotamia was too distant to serve as a glue for all the different interests.
  - jgeada 5y ago
    The Brits intentionally created unstable countries so that none could rival them in power in a region. All those countries were too busy dealing with internal strife to become regional competitors to England.

kingsloi 5y ago

I've found myself randomly in hour long documentaries on the most diverse subjects thanks to DW.

1-6 5y ago

I wonder how much the water to oil exchange rate is.

vnchr 5y ago
My understanding is they don't mix well.
- loofatoofa 5y ago
  This zinger was worth it
cestith 5y ago
It takes quite a bit of energy to pump water, ship it in containers, or desalinate seawater. At some point I think maybe that becomes just as relevant as the cost of each in currency terms when you're trying to provide for a sovereign nation's people.

adventured 5y ago

Reminds me a bit of the water conflict that has been unfolding in Africa between Ethiopia, Egypt and Sudan regarding the Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-57734885 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-57734885

baybal2 5y ago

Timing... Iran is going through an extreme drought, yes, but...

odiroot 5y ago

Is 21st century going to be all about wars over water sources?

NotSammyHagar 5y ago
I think it will be democracies vs. China,and the outcome is in doubt.

stickfigure 5y ago

> As far as the Iranian authorities are concerned, "Iraq's interests are irrelevant," she adds bluntly. I'm pretty sure that Iraq has missiles capable of destroying dams. Seems like that would be a relevant bargaining point.

robot_no_419 5y ago
I'm confident that Iran could and would completely flatten Iraq if it came to that. They are not comparable in terms of military strength.

ip26 5y ago

"Unless Iran harnesses its water resources, the country will hit a major crisis by 2036 and will face mass migration," said Banafsheh Keynoush, a fellow at the International Institute for Iranian Studies and former consultant to the World Bank. As far as the Iranian authorities are concerned, "Iraq's interests are irrelevant," she adds bluntly. Isn't an Iraq-in-water-crisis also a mass migration event for neighboring Iran?

hypertele-Xii 5y ago
Irrelevant, apparently.

m23khan 5y ago

Iranian water concerns aside, I wonder how much of Iran's decision-making in this situation is tied with Iran's fixation on keeping Iraq in check / within Iran's political sphere.

imtringued 5y ago

Why isn't Iran investing into center pivot irrigation systems?

encryptluks2 5y ago

Dang... The MIC must be needing money right now with this and Afghanistan

User23 5y ago

The California Water Wars are really interesting[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_water_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_water_wars