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The cause is us. This has been in the works for decades, and we’ve been warned about it since the 70s. Governments just haven’t paid attention because they only

The cause is us. This has been in the works for decades, and we’ve been warned about it since the 70s. Governments just haven’t paid attention because they only care about the _now_ not the future. I’ve seen how fucked our oceans have become since I was young. More debris in areas I never saw plastics before. Snorkeling is more depressing than ever. We can potentially turn this around, but the oceans that we knew twenty years ago are long gone. Act now or life is gonna be that much harder in fifty years. I’m pretty cynical at this point though. I do what I can, but I think we’ve reached the point of no return

enchiridion 5y ago
Specifically the governments of Asia need to stop dumping plastic directly into the ocean. Even if they polluted at them same level as the rest of the world, it would be a huge success. But then the rest of the world and the oil industry also deserves blame for spreading the myth of plastic recycling.
- torgian 5y ago
  Oh no doubt. Plastic pollution is a huge problem here.
- weddpros 5y ago
  The west needs to stop sending "recyclable" plastics to Asia
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    China used to buy plastic waste from the west (95% of Europe and 70% of USA's plastic waste). China isn't some poverty stricken unaccountable backwater where it was just being dumped, they were explicitly engaging in contracts and giving good rates for backhaul routes on cargo ships. If they then mismanaged the waste after they took ownership of it, that's China's failing. China have since mostly banned that, which sounds like what China needed to do to reign in their incapable plastic recycling industry. So that's fine, but the problem remains that about 80% of ocean plastic waste comes from Asia. Almost 40% from The Philippines alone even when most of the west's waste was going to China. So this can't be handwaved away as being due to "the west", it's a systemic problem in many countries in Asia in particular.
    - Smithalicious 5y ago
      The issue isn't "whose fault is it", the issue is what can we do about it, because we're all getting equally fucked by this. The hidden assumption is "we = the west". If China mismanages our waste then we shouldn't send it there, because mother nature doesn't care if it's technically our fault or not.
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago
        The issue is whose fault it is, because that's who needs to be helped and/or pressured into fixing it. We should have regulations on exporting waste, but the west exporting waste is not the cause of the pollution.
        ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        A lot of waste is exported illegally, and then we refuse to take it back! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_waste_dispute#:~:text=In%202016%2C%20a%20Philippine%20court,Plastics%20to%20retrieve%20their%20trash https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_w....
        throwawaylinux 5y ago
        Did you read the link? The Philippines seems to have had adequate inspection regulations, disputed the contract they had with this private company via legal channels, and Canada reciprocated by amending their laws to be able to receive the shipments back and The Philippines kept up pressure until that was done and it seems to be considered settled. Dealing with other people's plastic is easy because there is demand and money in it for you. Dealing with your own isn't quite so interesting that way -- that's what they need to be encouraged to do.
        ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        Dony you think it is an isolated incident? If you search, there are constant disputes with western garbage being illegally imported into second and third world countries. For every ton of garbage that is caught or adressed, seven pass under the radar. These are corrupt, struggling countries - you could import slaves and nukes if you k wo who to bribe https://www.greenpeace.org/philippines/press/2698/greenpeace-statement-on-the-australian-waste-found-in-misamis-oriental/ https://www.greenpeace.org/philippines/press/2698/greenpeace...
  - kortilla 5y ago
    That doesn’t fucking help as long as their governments are willing to do it. What do you think will happen with the local plastics? Some of the worst offending rivers are in India and the Philippines and “the west” doesn’t send plastic there. Cut the whataboutism shit and pressure every country directly that is doing this.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  More specifically, The Philippines. https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics At this point we just need to pay them for their trash or something.
  - ibeckermayer 5y ago
    Recklessly polluting a shared and vital resource like the oceans is an act of war. If the US wasn’t busy squandering unimaginable amounts of resources in backwaters like Afghanistan, we could be wielding our military might towards genuinely virtuous ends like putting a stop to this criminality. We certainly shouldn’t let ourselves be held hostage and paying them “protection money”
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - rubicon33 5y ago
      This is the kind of America strong arming that I could get behind.
      - intended 5y ago
        I’m sure Russia and China would too. And then use it to open new fronts against America.
    - SilverRed 5y ago
      It would be easier and much cheaper to go in and provide proper waste disposal services than to try to use the military. Don't just send money, send people to go in and fix it.
      - iamnotwhoiam 5y ago
        Unfortunately no, that won’t work either. No culture can change it’s behavior without significant buy in from the people which takes a lot of work and time, no matter what you’re trying to do. And more money and more people does not usually mean faster.
- jimmaswell 5y ago
  But they banned convenient plastic bags and straws from stores in the west, I thought that was supposed to save the planet.
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  The west is also responsible for producing and glamorizing extremely wasteful lifestyles. We could have bulk food grocery stores where you can bring re-used glass jars but instead everything is wrapped in multiple layers of plastic meant to be tossed as soon as the product is consumed. The USA has pushed an extremely materialistic lifestyle that has driven the mass manufacture of plastic waste. Western countries need to take responsibility for the waste we produce instead of sending it “away” to be somebody else’s problem. Edit: Just expanding on glass jars - I started saving all of my glass jars about a year ago. My shelf of jars is overflowing now, and they have many uses. I use peanut butter jars to hold my daily smoothie. I make candles with the jam jars. We know the plastics industry pushed disposable products hard. And to me it speaks to a broader problem with US business logic - lie cheat and steal at any cost and that is "good" for society. There may be unseemly actions down the waste stream but we are responsible for the culture that produces so much trash.
  - stickfigure 5y ago
    I've travelled a fair bit in the "non-west" and they use the same packaging everyone else does.
    - deadalus 5y ago
      It is well known that Americans consume far more natural resources and live much less sustainably than people from any other large country of the world. “A child born in the United States will create thirteen times as much ecological damage over the course of his or her lifetime than a child born in Brazil,” reports the Sierra Club’s Dave Tilford, adding that the average American will drain as many resources as 35 natives of India and consume 53 times more goods and services than someone from China. Source : https://www.blueridgeoutdoors.com/go-outside/united-states-consumption/ https://www.blueridgeoutdoors.com/go-outside/united-states-c...
      - SilverRed 5y ago
        Its also somewhat of a "lead by example" situation. Those most capable of implementing solutions should implement every solution they have and show how it can be done and then the rest of the world will follow or at least feel the pressure. Rather than rich countries with citizens living the most resource intensive lifestyles possible judging people in poverty for not having better than first world waste treatment.
- t0rt01se 5y ago
  As soon as you say 'governments of Asia' you've lost. They've a lot of polluting to do before they catch up with other 'government's' legacy of pollution. National governments are not compatible with solutions to global problems.
- crubier 5y ago
  The governments of Asia need to stop dumping plastic into the ocean ? I’m pretty sure it’s the people, not « governments », who are dumping plastic on the land, which gets washed down the rivers into the ocean. I agree that the blame is not always 100% on individuals. But systematically blaming anything bad 100% on « governments » is not productive either.
  - halfdan 5y ago
    Yes and no. You need a proper functioning garbage disposal system first. I've visited places in countries where the people could shop plastic wrapped items en masse but the government failed to provide proper garbage disposal. What are these people supposed to do? They get their food wrapped in plastic but have no way of disposing of said plastic other than dumping it in nature.
    - crubier 5y ago
      Fair point. In many cases though, people can vote for their government. But not always indeed.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Not this Asian coutries meme again. Do you know we the 'west' are shipping trash to them, illegally? And when its exposed we refuse to take it back? https://www.ecowatch.com/us-illegal-plastic-waste-2651126176.html https://www.ecowatch.com/us-illegal-plastic-waste-2651126176... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_waste_dispute https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_w...
  - madacol 5y ago
    Ctrl+f "ton" 0 hits "kg" 0 hits "%" 0 hits It seems there's no data, I assume they are just "story-telling" a couple of data points
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      You dont like this article, there are hundreds more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/12/climate/plastics-waste-export-ban.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/12/climate/plastics-waste-ex...
      - madacol 5y ago
        I think the figure is "48 million tons" in January sent from US to Malaysia and Indonesia. I still need more context data to change my mind, but it's a huge improvement over previous links, thanks.
- sneak 5y ago
  Where is the link between plastic in oceans and gray whale deaths established? Litter is unsightly but plastic can just be put in a landfill without much harm.
- yhoneycomb 5y ago
  Ahhh classic Hacker News "West good, East bad" level of "critical" thinking
- Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
  > Specifically the governments of Asia need to stop dumping plastic directly into the ocean. "The West has been dumping tens of millions of tons of trash in Southeast Asian countries for more than 25 years - now they want to send it back"[1] [] https://www.businessinsider.in/science/the-west-has-been-dumping-tens-of-millions-of-tons-of-trash-in-southeast-asian-countries-for-more-than-25-years-now-they-want-to-send-it-back/articleshow/69543657.cms https://www.businessinsider.in/science/the-west-has-been-dum...
hncurious 5y ago
We don't know what the cause is. From the article: Scientists are now scrambling to figure out what is killing these 40-foot-long marine mammals. The “what” is anything but obvious. Some scientists believe there may be too many whales for the population to sustain itself. Others say this explanation of “overcapacity” and “natural causes” overlooks the gantlet of hazards that grays now face — including ecosystem alteration, ship strikes, entanglement in fishing gear, plastics pollution, disease, ocean acidification and loss of kelp forests.
- anyfoo 5y ago
  > We don't know what the cause is. I'm always wondering what cause someone who replies with this is trying to advance. You are probably correct, we don't know what the cause is for this specific problem. We do know that we cause massive, let's say, "alterations" to the oceans by acidification and plastic pollution alone, and there is very strong indication that the effects of those alterations are not positive. So the worst case when addressing those issues is that we have solved or at the very least ameliorated acidification and plastic pollution, only to find out that gray whales dying specifically was not covered by those causes. Yes, finding out the actual cause is important (there may be other issues we are not yet aware of), but prioritizing the recovery of the ocean in general is not exactly a waste of effort in the meantime. As an analogy, if a bathroom smells like excrement, fixing the toilets known to overflow is a suitable activity. If it still smells like excrement after, or if you discover a different cause while the toilets are being fixed, you're still glad you fixed those toilets.
  - yarky 5y ago
    I agree, the "we don't know that the cause is" type of answer makes me think of those doctors saying back in the days that we didn't know whether smoking cigarettes caused health issues. There's something called common sense and it's whatever contradicts common sense that deserves a clear explanation/evidence. It's quite obvious that whales shouldn't expect much from the way we treat our oceans.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    Cause? Saying "it is very possible, even likely, that human activity caused this, but as of right now we just don't know, so let's not jump to conclusions and do the science first" requires some shady motive now. Refusal to blame yourself with literally 0 evidence is itself evidence that someone is an oil company shill or something.
betwixthewires 5y ago
While I'd say anyone ruling out man made causes of these whales' deaths would be demonstrating severe cognitive dissonance, isn't it equally likely to be a disease or something not man made? Why does every bad thing that happens have to be caused by man? They could have a virus that jumped to them, something along those lines, just like out pandemic (which, I've heard, is not man made, and about the only problem plaguing this earth that people are adamantly sure isn't). There are literally millions of other species they interact with besides us, many of which could cause this. Maybe do the science before we jump to conclusions?
techrat 5y ago
> Act now or life is gonna be that much harder in fifty years. We've been saying this about Global Warming for a while. (An Inconvenient Truth came out in 2006) By the time people say "we need to do something," sadly, it's already too late. Humanity's Great Filter is ourselves.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
caymanjim 5y ago
The cause isn't known. It's probably us, but saying "it's us" isn't helpful. Finding out the reason is helpful. It's hard enough to make changes to global human behavior when we have a well-defined problem with a known solution. Guessing at a cause and getting it wrong--or making hand-wavy statements about how the entirely of human behavior is a problem--not only doesn't help anything, it actively hurts efforts to solve problems. If you present people with evidence and with a pragmatic plan to solve a problem, they're more likely to act. Obviously we get it wrong far more often than we get it right, but there are success stories, like saving many birds from extinction by banning DDT. If you can't come up with a cause and a solution, you just come off as a crank. If you get the cause wrong or your solution doesn't work, that makes it all the harder to win support for the million other things that need fixing.
curation 5y ago
Time to remake Star Trek IV the Voyage home?
dgb23 5y ago
What can I do as an individual? Honest.
- jl6 5y ago
  Just generally consuming less would be a great start. Most first world lifestyles are awash in unnecessary consumption - so much so that your quality of life is likely to improve through cutting out the crap, well before you have to make any hard compromises about your lifestyle.
inter_netuser 5y ago
Are you on the west coast? What are these “areas”?
dcjdudud 5y ago
Outside of not getting to see whales what about the loss of gray whales would mage life harder? If anything it seems like the reason no one cares is because of how inconsequential the problems are to society outside of being pleasant to witness.

enchiridion 5y ago

Specifically the governments of Asia need to stop dumping plastic directly into the ocean. Even if they polluted at them same level as the rest of the world, it would be a huge success. But then the rest of the world and the oil industry also deserves blame for spreading the myth of plastic recycling.

torgian 5y ago
Oh no doubt. Plastic pollution is a huge problem here.
weddpros 5y ago
The west needs to stop sending "recyclable" plastics to Asia
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  China used to buy plastic waste from the west (95% of Europe and 70% of USA's plastic waste). China isn't some poverty stricken unaccountable backwater where it was just being dumped, they were explicitly engaging in contracts and giving good rates for backhaul routes on cargo ships. If they then mismanaged the waste after they took ownership of it, that's China's failing. China have since mostly banned that, which sounds like what China needed to do to reign in their incapable plastic recycling industry. So that's fine, but the problem remains that about 80% of ocean plastic waste comes from Asia. Almost 40% from The Philippines alone even when most of the west's waste was going to China. So this can't be handwaved away as being due to "the west", it's a systemic problem in many countries in Asia in particular.
  - Smithalicious 5y ago
    The issue isn't "whose fault is it", the issue is what can we do about it, because we're all getting equally fucked by this. The hidden assumption is "we = the west". If China mismanages our waste then we shouldn't send it there, because mother nature doesn't care if it's technically our fault or not.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      The issue is whose fault it is, because that's who needs to be helped and/or pressured into fixing it. We should have regulations on exporting waste, but the west exporting waste is not the cause of the pollution.
      - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        A lot of waste is exported illegally, and then we refuse to take it back! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_waste_dispute#:~:text=In%202016%2C%20a%20Philippine%20court,Plastics%20to%20retrieve%20their%20trash https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_w....
        throwawaylinux 5y ago
        Did you read the link? The Philippines seems to have had adequate inspection regulations, disputed the contract they had with this private company via legal channels, and Canada reciprocated by amending their laws to be able to receive the shipments back and The Philippines kept up pressure until that was done and it seems to be considered settled. Dealing with other people's plastic is easy because there is demand and money in it for you. Dealing with your own isn't quite so interesting that way -- that's what they need to be encouraged to do.
        ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        Dony you think it is an isolated incident? If you search, there are constant disputes with western garbage being illegally imported into second and third world countries. For every ton of garbage that is caught or adressed, seven pass under the radar. These are corrupt, struggling countries - you could import slaves and nukes if you k wo who to bribe https://www.greenpeace.org/philippines/press/2698/greenpeace-statement-on-the-australian-waste-found-in-misamis-oriental/ https://www.greenpeace.org/philippines/press/2698/greenpeace...
- kortilla 5y ago
  That doesn’t fucking help as long as their governments are willing to do it. What do you think will happen with the local plastics? Some of the worst offending rivers are in India and the Philippines and “the west” doesn’t send plastic there. Cut the whataboutism shit and pressure every country directly that is doing this.
micromacrofoot 5y ago
More specifically, The Philippines. https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics At this point we just need to pay them for their trash or something.
- ibeckermayer 5y ago
  Recklessly polluting a shared and vital resource like the oceans is an act of war. If the US wasn’t busy squandering unimaginable amounts of resources in backwaters like Afghanistan, we could be wielding our military might towards genuinely virtuous ends like putting a stop to this criminality. We certainly shouldn’t let ourselves be held hostage and paying them “protection money”
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - rubicon33 5y ago
    This is the kind of America strong arming that I could get behind.
    - intended 5y ago
      I’m sure Russia and China would too. And then use it to open new fronts against America.
  - SilverRed 5y ago
    It would be easier and much cheaper to go in and provide proper waste disposal services than to try to use the military. Don't just send money, send people to go in and fix it.
    - iamnotwhoiam 5y ago
      Unfortunately no, that won’t work either. No culture can change it’s behavior without significant buy in from the people which takes a lot of work and time, no matter what you’re trying to do. And more money and more people does not usually mean faster.
jimmaswell 5y ago
But they banned convenient plastic bags and straws from stores in the west, I thought that was supposed to save the planet.
TaylorAlexander 5y ago
The west is also responsible for producing and glamorizing extremely wasteful lifestyles. We could have bulk food grocery stores where you can bring re-used glass jars but instead everything is wrapped in multiple layers of plastic meant to be tossed as soon as the product is consumed. The USA has pushed an extremely materialistic lifestyle that has driven the mass manufacture of plastic waste. Western countries need to take responsibility for the waste we produce instead of sending it “away” to be somebody else’s problem. Edit: Just expanding on glass jars - I started saving all of my glass jars about a year ago. My shelf of jars is overflowing now, and they have many uses. I use peanut butter jars to hold my daily smoothie. I make candles with the jam jars. We know the plastics industry pushed disposable products hard. And to me it speaks to a broader problem with US business logic - lie cheat and steal at any cost and that is "good" for society. There may be unseemly actions down the waste stream but we are responsible for the culture that produces so much trash.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  I've travelled a fair bit in the "non-west" and they use the same packaging everyone else does.
  - deadalus 5y ago
    It is well known that Americans consume far more natural resources and live much less sustainably than people from any other large country of the world. “A child born in the United States will create thirteen times as much ecological damage over the course of his or her lifetime than a child born in Brazil,” reports the Sierra Club’s Dave Tilford, adding that the average American will drain as many resources as 35 natives of India and consume 53 times more goods and services than someone from China. Source : https://www.blueridgeoutdoors.com/go-outside/united-states-consumption/ https://www.blueridgeoutdoors.com/go-outside/united-states-c...
    - SilverRed 5y ago
      Its also somewhat of a "lead by example" situation. Those most capable of implementing solutions should implement every solution they have and show how it can be done and then the rest of the world will follow or at least feel the pressure. Rather than rich countries with citizens living the most resource intensive lifestyles possible judging people in poverty for not having better than first world waste treatment.
t0rt01se 5y ago
As soon as you say 'governments of Asia' you've lost. They've a lot of polluting to do before they catch up with other 'government's' legacy of pollution. National governments are not compatible with solutions to global problems.
crubier 5y ago
The governments of Asia need to stop dumping plastic into the ocean ? I’m pretty sure it’s the people, not « governments », who are dumping plastic on the land, which gets washed down the rivers into the ocean. I agree that the blame is not always 100% on individuals. But systematically blaming anything bad 100% on « governments » is not productive either.
- halfdan 5y ago
  Yes and no. You need a proper functioning garbage disposal system first. I've visited places in countries where the people could shop plastic wrapped items en masse but the government failed to provide proper garbage disposal. What are these people supposed to do? They get their food wrapped in plastic but have no way of disposing of said plastic other than dumping it in nature.
  - crubier 5y ago
    Fair point. In many cases though, people can vote for their government. But not always indeed.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
Not this Asian coutries meme again. Do you know we the 'west' are shipping trash to them, illegally? And when its exposed we refuse to take it back? https://www.ecowatch.com/us-illegal-plastic-waste-2651126176.html https://www.ecowatch.com/us-illegal-plastic-waste-2651126176... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_waste_dispute https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Philippines_w...
- madacol 5y ago
  Ctrl+f "ton" 0 hits "kg" 0 hits "%" 0 hits It seems there's no data, I assume they are just "story-telling" a couple of data points
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    You dont like this article, there are hundreds more: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/12/climate/plastics-waste-export-ban.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/12/climate/plastics-waste-ex...
    - madacol 5y ago
      I think the figure is "48 million tons" in January sent from US to Malaysia and Indonesia. I still need more context data to change my mind, but it's a huge improvement over previous links, thanks.
sneak 5y ago
Where is the link between plastic in oceans and gray whale deaths established? Litter is unsightly but plastic can just be put in a landfill without much harm.
yhoneycomb 5y ago
Ahhh classic Hacker News "West good, East bad" level of "critical" thinking
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
> Specifically the governments of Asia need to stop dumping plastic directly into the ocean. "The West has been dumping tens of millions of tons of trash in Southeast Asian countries for more than 25 years - now they want to send it back"[1] [] https://www.businessinsider.in/science/the-west-has-been-dumping-tens-of-millions-of-tons-of-trash-in-southeast-asian-countries-for-more-than-25-years-now-they-want-to-send-it-back/articleshow/69543657.cms https://www.businessinsider.in/science/the-west-has-been-dum...

hncurious 5y ago

We don't know what the cause is. From the article: Scientists are now scrambling to figure out what is killing these 40-foot-long marine mammals. The “what” is anything but obvious. Some scientists believe there may be too many whales for the population to sustain itself. Others say this explanation of “overcapacity” and “natural causes” overlooks the gantlet of hazards that grays now face — including ecosystem alteration, ship strikes, entanglement in fishing gear, plastics pollution, disease, ocean acidification and loss of kelp forests.

anyfoo 5y ago
> We don't know what the cause is. I'm always wondering what cause someone who replies with this is trying to advance. You are probably correct, we don't know what the cause is for this specific problem. We do know that we cause massive, let's say, "alterations" to the oceans by acidification and plastic pollution alone, and there is very strong indication that the effects of those alterations are not positive. So the worst case when addressing those issues is that we have solved or at the very least ameliorated acidification and plastic pollution, only to find out that gray whales dying specifically was not covered by those causes. Yes, finding out the actual cause is important (there may be other issues we are not yet aware of), but prioritizing the recovery of the ocean in general is not exactly a waste of effort in the meantime. As an analogy, if a bathroom smells like excrement, fixing the toilets known to overflow is a suitable activity. If it still smells like excrement after, or if you discover a different cause while the toilets are being fixed, you're still glad you fixed those toilets.
- yarky 5y ago
  I agree, the "we don't know that the cause is" type of answer makes me think of those doctors saying back in the days that we didn't know whether smoking cigarettes caused health issues. There's something called common sense and it's whatever contradicts common sense that deserves a clear explanation/evidence. It's quite obvious that whales shouldn't expect much from the way we treat our oceans.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  Cause? Saying "it is very possible, even likely, that human activity caused this, but as of right now we just don't know, so let's not jump to conclusions and do the science first" requires some shady motive now. Refusal to blame yourself with literally 0 evidence is itself evidence that someone is an oil company shill or something.

betwixthewires 5y ago

While I'd say anyone ruling out man made causes of these whales' deaths would be demonstrating severe cognitive dissonance, isn't it equally likely to be a disease or something not man made? Why does every bad thing that happens have to be caused by man? They could have a virus that jumped to them, something along those lines, just like out pandemic (which, I've heard, is not man made, and about the only problem plaguing this earth that people are adamantly sure isn't). There are literally millions of other species they interact with besides us, many of which could cause this. Maybe do the science before we jump to conclusions?

techrat 5y ago

> Act now or life is gonna be that much harder in fifty years. We've been saying this about Global Warming for a while. (An Inconvenient Truth came out in 2006) By the time people say "we need to do something," sadly, it's already too late. Humanity's Great Filter is ourselves.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

caymanjim 5y ago

The cause isn't known. It's probably us, but saying "it's us" isn't helpful. Finding out the reason is helpful. It's hard enough to make changes to global human behavior when we have a well-defined problem with a known solution. Guessing at a cause and getting it wrong--or making hand-wavy statements about how the entirely of human behavior is a problem--not only doesn't help anything, it actively hurts efforts to solve problems. If you present people with evidence and with a pragmatic plan to solve a problem, they're more likely to act. Obviously we get it wrong far more often than we get it right, but there are success stories, like saving many birds from extinction by banning DDT. If you can't come up with a cause and a solution, you just come off as a crank. If you get the cause wrong or your solution doesn't work, that makes it all the harder to win support for the million other things that need fixing.

curation 5y ago

Time to remake Star Trek IV the Voyage home?

dgb23 5y ago

What can I do as an individual? Honest.

jl6 5y ago
Just generally consuming less would be a great start. Most first world lifestyles are awash in unnecessary consumption - so much so that your quality of life is likely to improve through cutting out the crap, well before you have to make any hard compromises about your lifestyle.

inter_netuser 5y ago

Are you on the west coast? What are these “areas”?

dcjdudud 5y ago

Outside of not getting to see whales what about the loss of gray whales would mage life harder? If anything it seems like the reason no one cares is because of how inconsequential the problems are to society outside of being pleasant to witness.