9 ms·

The health care model in the US doesn't really help much on the matter, but this isn't a battle against diabetes, diabetes is just the result of an overweight p

by yawaworht1978 5y ago

The health care model in the US doesn't really help much on the matter, but this isn't a battle against diabetes, diabetes is just the result of an overweight population with bad dietary habits. There is the inherited kind, and then there is the "earned" kind. One is genetically unavoidable, the other is mostly preventable. It is not even the food, or fats, or carbs, or sugars, it's too many calories over extended time frames and all the fizzy drinks with sugar and lattes with more calories than a pizza are what transfers people to diabetes city. The body has ok ish prevention systems when it comes to food via ghrelin feedback loop and stomach size, but the body cannot cope with too much fast absorbed fluid calories. The rise of zero calorie drinks is a decent first step, some people say these can make you fat as well, but that is entirely physically impossible, they contain zero energy and they do not cause blood sugar level volatility , else diabetics drinking them could drop dead within minutes. Many people have very poor education on food matters and are falling to all kinds of marketing tricks, like bio(doesn't make it healthy) , no fat(replaced by sugar), natural ingredients or juice(how much and still, fluid fruit sugar is not good for you if you drink a bottle). Sure, a basketball professional can have a Gatorade after a training when he is depleted of glycogen, but the Avery joe whos daily exercise is grabbing the beer and tv remote and constantly being saturated with carbs? Will not end well. I didn't look up historical data but the self caused diabetes will certainly be more wide spread in nations with more obesity problems than nations with slimmer people. And diabetes and blood sugar levels are just the start, there are many more undesired side effects. Source, ex gf has masters in nutrition.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago
There's an inherited kind, an earned kind, and a "whoops, diabetes!" kind. My sister spent the first 36 years of her life without diabetes or symptoms of diabetes. 5'3", 130 pounds. Then she had her second child, and whatever happened during that time eradicated her ability to deal with sugar. She had been perfectly healthy aside from an ovarian cyst which was removed before she was pregnant with the second child. So now she's a type 1 diabetic, complete with a blood glucose monitor and an insulin pump.
- nradov 5y ago
  There is some evidence that adult onset type 1 diabetes can be triggered in susceptible individuals by certain viral infections. https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine/type_i_diabetes https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine/type_i_diabetes
  - justin66 5y ago
    There is a lot of evidence. The tone of that blog post is potentially a bit overly doubtful, although a person could go into a pretty interesting google dive for medical research papers and more information based on it if they wanted to, so I wouldn't complain. The mechanisms for viruses causing adult-onset type 1 diabetes have perhaps not been well understood, but there's now little doubt that it happens. I don't know how long it's been a subject of active study but researchers talked to my father about his adult-onset type 1 diabetes, which followed a bad case of the mumps, in the early eighties. I think it's just very, very tough to prove something like this in a way that is technically beyond doubt. My dad was part of a cluster of cases but, you know, that's not proof of causation, even if you find a lot of them. Interesting field.
- aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 5y ago
  Presumably she had gestational diabetes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestational_diabetes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestational_diabetes
  - kyriakos 5y ago
    Always thought that goes away after pregnancy is over
  - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
    She did have it, but then she her blood sugar levels returned to normal afterward. About a year later, her vision started getting blurry during a vacation trip and she did not feel well. It's at that point that she ended up with her diabetes.
- 5y ago
sithlord 5y ago
Type 2 diabetes is also very much a genetic problem. Sure, being overweight may give you a more likely chance of seeing the issues arise (sooner that is)but I know plenty of people who are not overweight and have type 2 diabetes. If someone has the genetic disposition for Type 2 diabetes in younger, more fit people they are still extremely likely to start seeing the effects as they age and lose activity (even if they do not become overweight/obese).
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  I wonder what percentage of people with T2D are normal weight, because my impression is it's not very many people at all.
  - kec 5y ago
    I would guess approximately none of them (or at least, none of them at time of diagnosis). Modern America has a very messed up view of what is and isn't a healthy weight.
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      That is false. My grandfather got type 2 with age and I will very likely get it too at some point. My grandfather was always at the lower border of underweight throughout his entire life (EU). Overweight is a factor that accelerates this process.
  - yawaworht1978 5y ago
    Weight and what's normal varies between nations, but nobody considers body composition. A skinny kid with a beer belly will be full of visceral fat and weigh the same at same height like an Olympic swimmer. Also the dietary habits can trigger problems at any weight.
    - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      Let’s be honest, we aren’t talking about Olympic swimmers here.
nradov 5y ago
There is some evidence that certain artificial sweeteners can alter glucose metabolism and increase obesity risk. https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/1/29/htm https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/1/29/htm
- yawaworht1978 5y ago
  Might be, might not. I always wonder, who funded that or such studies? I know the mdpi is a credible source. As long the sweeteners do not have calories, they will not directly make anyone gain weight. The taste might cause a desire for more sweet things and eventually people will give in, but that's tangential/collateral. On the other side, it's proven beyond doubt that sugar directly, the fructose component in sugar causes dysregulation of lipid and carbohydrate metabolism. Indirectly, sugar promotes positive energy balance, thus body weight and fat gain, which also cause dysregulation of lipid and carbohydrate metabolism https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4822166/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4822166/
  - prostoalex 5y ago
    > As long the sweeteners do not have calories, they will not directly make anyone gain weight. There might be more to weight gain than just a straight calorie count https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195666315300805 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01956... It could be the hormonal response, could be the gut bacteria, could be consumption time window, circadian rhythms, or a combo thereof.
chomp 5y ago
> The rise of zero calorie drinks is a decent first step, some people say these can make you fat as well, but that is entirely physically impossible, they contain zero energy and they do not cause blood sugar level volatility , else diabetics drinking them could drop dead within minutes. I'd tread lightly here. Some initial research is showing that artificial sweeteners can stress your gut bacteria, which is a not well understood area of human metabolism.
- yawaworht1978 5y ago
  Sure thing, but sugar is well understood these days.So far, at least artificial sweeteners have FDA approval. I was just referring to the caloric value. Best would be to drink water and nothing else, perhaps bit milk at times.
- kyriakos 5y ago
  In addition there's a possibility that sweet taste causes the release of insulin in the blood which could also lead into resistance to insulin. There have been some studies on this too. On the other hand we know as a fact sugar is causing all sorts of issues so I'd place my bets in a substitute. Realistically it's very hard to avoid sugar altogether, it's in everything in one way or another from bread to milk. Misinformation is also a big issue for example we grew up thinking fruit juice is good for you...
  - gruez 5y ago
    >In addition there's a possibility that sweet taste causes the release of insulin in the blood which could also lead into resistance to insulin I think gp covered this? >they do not cause blood sugar level volatility , else diabetics drinking them could drop dead within minutes. If it actually released insulin and there was no corresponding rise in blood sugar (from the drink), you'd expect them to get low blood sugar and pass out.
ravenstine 5y ago
> The body has ok ish prevention systems when it comes to food via ghrelin feedback loop and stomach size, but the body cannot cope with too much fast absorbed fluid calories. Perhaps you mean leptin? Ghrelin is for hunger while leptin is for satiety, so the latter is really more the limiting factory.
- yawaworht1978 5y ago
  Sorry for not mentioning both, i consider both part of the feedback loop.I considered ghrelin a tad more important because of two things. If a stomach is extended(can grow to 7 times it's size) , the ghrelin feedback is temporarily not synchronized and will trigger appetite and hunger pangs more frequent and the leptin cannot counterbalance this too well. The other point is, everyone knows that feeling, after some hefty Chinese meal or mc Donald's, even though plenty calories have been consumed, 30minutes later you feel like "having an extra". The ghrelin simply overrides the leptin reaction. Thanks for the addition, I have just always held the opinion that ghrelin has more effects. Another example would be on a binge, no matter if people eat slow or fast(important for leptin trigger), the appetite keeps being a bit higher than the satiety sensation for some reason. Btw, I wanted to add that I did not intend to just point fingers at the US, was just because the title is us centric. Europe is mostly no better, nor are most LATAM countries.
- ravenstine 5y ago
  lol factor, not factory. woops
ensiferum 5y ago
There really is some science coming up linking sugar to obesity and metabolic syndrome including Type 2 diabetes. For example Dr Lustig has good videos on YT.
agumonkey 5y ago
It's a bit strange how difficult it is for these populations to just not ingest stuff. We have too much time and temptations around. When you're busy and can only have veggies fruits and a bit of meat/fish the whole problem evaporates. Bonus point if your daily activity involves good physical exercise and relaxed relations.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

There's an inherited kind, an earned kind, and a "whoops, diabetes!" kind. My sister spent the first 36 years of her life without diabetes or symptoms of diabetes. 5'3", 130 pounds. Then she had her second child, and whatever happened during that time eradicated her ability to deal with sugar. She had been perfectly healthy aside from an ovarian cyst which was removed before she was pregnant with the second child. So now she's a type 1 diabetic, complete with a blood glucose monitor and an insulin pump.

nradov 5y ago
There is some evidence that adult onset type 1 diabetes can be triggered in susceptible individuals by certain viral infections. https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine/type_i_diabetes https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine/type_i_diabetes
- justin66 5y ago
  There is a lot of evidence. The tone of that blog post is potentially a bit overly doubtful, although a person could go into a pretty interesting google dive for medical research papers and more information based on it if they wanted to, so I wouldn't complain. The mechanisms for viruses causing adult-onset type 1 diabetes have perhaps not been well understood, but there's now little doubt that it happens. I don't know how long it's been a subject of active study but researchers talked to my father about his adult-onset type 1 diabetes, which followed a bad case of the mumps, in the early eighties. I think it's just very, very tough to prove something like this in a way that is technically beyond doubt. My dad was part of a cluster of cases but, you know, that's not proof of causation, even if you find a lot of them. Interesting field.
aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 5y ago
Presumably she had gestational diabetes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestational_diabetes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestational_diabetes
- kyriakos 5y ago
  Always thought that goes away after pregnancy is over
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  She did have it, but then she her blood sugar levels returned to normal afterward. About a year later, her vision started getting blurry during a vacation trip and she did not feel well. It's at that point that she ended up with her diabetes.
5y ago

sithlord 5y ago

Type 2 diabetes is also very much a genetic problem. Sure, being overweight may give you a more likely chance of seeing the issues arise (sooner that is)but I know plenty of people who are not overweight and have type 2 diabetes. If someone has the genetic disposition for Type 2 diabetes in younger, more fit people they are still extremely likely to start seeing the effects as they age and lose activity (even if they do not become overweight/obese).

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
I wonder what percentage of people with T2D are normal weight, because my impression is it's not very many people at all.
- kec 5y ago
  I would guess approximately none of them (or at least, none of them at time of diagnosis). Modern America has a very messed up view of what is and isn't a healthy weight.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    That is false. My grandfather got type 2 with age and I will very likely get it too at some point. My grandfather was always at the lower border of underweight throughout his entire life (EU). Overweight is a factor that accelerates this process.
- yawaworht1978 5y ago
  Weight and what's normal varies between nations, but nobody considers body composition. A skinny kid with a beer belly will be full of visceral fat and weigh the same at same height like an Olympic swimmer. Also the dietary habits can trigger problems at any weight.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    Let’s be honest, we aren’t talking about Olympic swimmers here.

nradov 5y ago

There is some evidence that certain artificial sweeteners can alter glucose metabolism and increase obesity risk. https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/1/29/htm https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/1/29/htm

yawaworht1978 5y ago
Might be, might not. I always wonder, who funded that or such studies? I know the mdpi is a credible source. As long the sweeteners do not have calories, they will not directly make anyone gain weight. The taste might cause a desire for more sweet things and eventually people will give in, but that's tangential/collateral. On the other side, it's proven beyond doubt that sugar directly, the fructose component in sugar causes dysregulation of lipid and carbohydrate metabolism. Indirectly, sugar promotes positive energy balance, thus body weight and fat gain, which also cause dysregulation of lipid and carbohydrate metabolism https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4822166/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4822166/
- prostoalex 5y ago
  > As long the sweeteners do not have calories, they will not directly make anyone gain weight. There might be more to weight gain than just a straight calorie count https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195666315300805 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01956... It could be the hormonal response, could be the gut bacteria, could be consumption time window, circadian rhythms, or a combo thereof.

chomp 5y ago

> The rise of zero calorie drinks is a decent first step, some people say these can make you fat as well, but that is entirely physically impossible, they contain zero energy and they do not cause blood sugar level volatility , else diabetics drinking them could drop dead within minutes. I'd tread lightly here. Some initial research is showing that artificial sweeteners can stress your gut bacteria, which is a not well understood area of human metabolism.

yawaworht1978 5y ago
Sure thing, but sugar is well understood these days.So far, at least artificial sweeteners have FDA approval. I was just referring to the caloric value. Best would be to drink water and nothing else, perhaps bit milk at times.
kyriakos 5y ago
In addition there's a possibility that sweet taste causes the release of insulin in the blood which could also lead into resistance to insulin. There have been some studies on this too. On the other hand we know as a fact sugar is causing all sorts of issues so I'd place my bets in a substitute. Realistically it's very hard to avoid sugar altogether, it's in everything in one way or another from bread to milk. Misinformation is also a big issue for example we grew up thinking fruit juice is good for you...
- gruez 5y ago
  >In addition there's a possibility that sweet taste causes the release of insulin in the blood which could also lead into resistance to insulin I think gp covered this? >they do not cause blood sugar level volatility , else diabetics drinking them could drop dead within minutes. If it actually released insulin and there was no corresponding rise in blood sugar (from the drink), you'd expect them to get low blood sugar and pass out.

ravenstine 5y ago

> The body has ok ish prevention systems when it comes to food via ghrelin feedback loop and stomach size, but the body cannot cope with too much fast absorbed fluid calories. Perhaps you mean leptin? Ghrelin is for hunger while leptin is for satiety, so the latter is really more the limiting factory.

yawaworht1978 5y ago
Sorry for not mentioning both, i consider both part of the feedback loop.I considered ghrelin a tad more important because of two things. If a stomach is extended(can grow to 7 times it's size) , the ghrelin feedback is temporarily not synchronized and will trigger appetite and hunger pangs more frequent and the leptin cannot counterbalance this too well. The other point is, everyone knows that feeling, after some hefty Chinese meal or mc Donald's, even though plenty calories have been consumed, 30minutes later you feel like "having an extra". The ghrelin simply overrides the leptin reaction. Thanks for the addition, I have just always held the opinion that ghrelin has more effects. Another example would be on a binge, no matter if people eat slow or fast(important for leptin trigger), the appetite keeps being a bit higher than the satiety sensation for some reason. Btw, I wanted to add that I did not intend to just point fingers at the US, was just because the title is us centric. Europe is mostly no better, nor are most LATAM countries.
ravenstine 5y ago
lol factor, not factory. woops

ensiferum 5y ago

There really is some science coming up linking sugar to obesity and metabolic syndrome including Type 2 diabetes. For example Dr Lustig has good videos on YT.

agumonkey 5y ago

It's a bit strange how difficult it is for these populations to just not ingest stuff. We have too much time and temptations around. When you're busy and can only have veggies fruits and a bit of meat/fish the whole problem evaporates. Bonus point if your daily activity involves good physical exercise and relaxed relations.