5 ms·

I mean, is there really any point in saying what would've or not have happened anymore other than some notion of nationalism? I was at Newberry Lava River cave

by lhorie 5y ago

I mean, is there really any point in saying what would've or not have happened anymore other than some notion of nationalism? I was at Newberry Lava River cave, Oregon last week. There was a mandatory orientation before entering the cave which went along these lines: "this cave is a bat sanctuary. As you may or may not know, Covid is a zoonotic disease that is transmissible between humans and bats. If our bats here get infected, Covid will become endemic to North America and will never go away. I've had Covid, and I was bedridden for 6 weeks and have scars on my lungs. I would not wish this disease on my worst enemy. PLEASE do not go in if you're sick and wear masks if you do." People were walking in without masks even after hearing that. Not a peep from the multiple park rangers, because freedom, I guess. As a species, we're pretty much just asking to be wiped out by the next pandemic.

nradov 5y ago
It's a little late for that. SARS-CoV-2 is already endemic worldwide in humans and several other animal species.
1123581321 5y ago
Yes, there is a point because, as the top level comment demonstrates, faulty root cause analysis is being used to advocate for ineffective or counterproductive policy. Also, I have to admit that message you heard is strange. I don’t believe there is evidence that humans can transfer Covid to bats, plus, if the sanctuary believes that, why are they letting anyone through at all? I would expect the consequential threat wouldn’t register as many people already believe the disease is not going away. I’m not saying wearing masks is unimportant but the cave warnings are a good example of how melodramatic speculation can be counterproductive when coming from officials. We won’t make progress by asking for perfect behavior to stave off doom.
- lhorie 5y ago
  > if the sanctuary believes that, why are they letting anyone through at all? Good question, especially considering that they did go on to say that if covid was found in this bat population, the cave would be closed off for human entry permanently. I didn't probe further but I suspect that policy might be based on what you said about evidence of human -> bat transmission. Still, I do feel that closing it off seems like the prudent thing to do. It seems kinda myopic to have a policy to only close after the fact while knowing full well that Covid is zoonotic and mutations can in theory occur in a bat population on North American soil. At that point, last year's exercise of pointing fingers at Wuhan effectively becomes a historic unfunny joke because it's not like the US tests their wild bats every day and what can possibly go wrong w/ reactive policies... </shrug> My overall point though is that even if we have perfect root cause analysis, people will still choose to ignore anything from informed recommendations to even appeals to emotion. As they say, it only takes one bad apple.

by lhorie 5y ago

nradov 5y ago

It's a little late for that. SARS-CoV-2 is already endemic worldwide in humans and several other animal species.

1123581321 5y ago

Yes, there is a point because, as the top level comment demonstrates, faulty root cause analysis is being used to advocate for ineffective or counterproductive policy. Also, I have to admit that message you heard is strange. I don’t believe there is evidence that humans can transfer Covid to bats, plus, if the sanctuary believes that, why are they letting anyone through at all? I would expect the consequential threat wouldn’t register as many people already believe the disease is not going away. I’m not saying wearing masks is unimportant but the cave warnings are a good example of how melodramatic speculation can be counterproductive when coming from officials. We won’t make progress by asking for perfect behavior to stave off doom.

lhorie 5y ago
> if the sanctuary believes that, why are they letting anyone through at all? Good question, especially considering that they did go on to say that if covid was found in this bat population, the cave would be closed off for human entry permanently. I didn't probe further but I suspect that policy might be based on what you said about evidence of human -> bat transmission. Still, I do feel that closing it off seems like the prudent thing to do. It seems kinda myopic to have a policy to only close after the fact while knowing full well that Covid is zoonotic and mutations can in theory occur in a bat population on North American soil. At that point, last year's exercise of pointing fingers at Wuhan effectively becomes a historic unfunny joke because it's not like the US tests their wild bats every day and what can possibly go wrong w/ reactive policies... </shrug> My overall point though is that even if we have perfect root cause analysis, people will still choose to ignore anything from informed recommendations to even appeals to emotion. As they say, it only takes one bad apple.