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> But children also burn out fast. This is well known in emergency medicine. Not only do kids burn out quick, they also burn out completely because they, unli

> But children also burn out fast. This is well known in emergency medicine. Not only do kids burn out quick, they also burn out completely because they, unlike adults, don't keep a reserve. This applies to homeostasis, too. Consequently: young trauma victims that "look OK" need to be very closely attended to, because what you might be seeing is a kid burning the very last of their energy reserves just to maintain homeostasis, and they will NOT degrade gracefully once they're out of energy -- they'll just go right into the deep end of shock. Happy and talking to unconscious in 90 seconds is nothing you want to see.

hutzlibu 5y ago
This is very important for any water related activities: many kids drowned because of this. Jumping, screaming and laughing in the water - the next moment gone. You have to pay attention. I do not mean, being overprotective, just pay really attention to them and you should notice, when they are about to reach their limits.
- baq 5y ago
  super important in the age of smartphone parents.
- verytrivial 5y ago
  Very true. With two kids in the pool you have to be like one of those auto-tipping novelty birds: you check, you look away at something else, YOU CHECK, you have a splash and a look at the sky, YOU CHECK ...
- chasd00 5y ago
  Very good point. My boys are 11 and 9, I can count 3 times I’ve gone in fully clothed with phone/wallet in pocket to pull them out of a pool after getting in trouble. For them, it was panicking when getting in over their head ( heh no pun intended). Panicking in deep water is bad news. Edit: I distinctly remember one time being at a party surrounded by adults but the only one noticing the emergency. It’s like when a kid gets in trouble with water they become almost invisible… it’s very strange.
  - nradov 5y ago
    Drowning doesn't look like drowning. https://www.watersafetymagazine.com/drowning-doesnt-look-like-drowning/ https://www.watersafetymagazine.com/drowning-doesnt-look-lik...
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    "It’s like when a kid gets in trouble with water they become almost invisible… it’s very strange." Well, it can be hard distingishing kids playing in water loudly and just ordinary play screaming - and kids panicking in water. It looks and sounds the same on first glance in many instances. Or rather not. When they are loud, they still have energy and their head well above the water. (you cannot shout so well, with water in your mouth) The scary part is, when they reached their limits and do not have the energy to panic anymore and just fade and drown. If that happens, it is very important to not panic yourself, go in quickly (but not headless) and maybe know some CPR basics if necessary. There are cases, where the drowned child got rescued, but the paniqued parent drowned dead. Or the other sibling. (not in pool, but in river/sea type scenarios) But better avoid that alltogether by paying attention before and choose the site accordingly. I mean I am also very often with my toddler at a river, where he can play at a shallow spot. I know it is dangerous if I stop paying attention to him, because the river has a strong current and rocks in it. And he already knows the dangers, but he overestimates himself quickly. He is the kid. I have the responsibility.
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  It's not only about kids. Plenty of people drowning in the same way, without loud cries, just silently. That's just how human brain wired for some reason.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    Shouting is hard, when you have the mouth full of water and fighting with your last strength to stay above the water.
- iamthepieman 5y ago
  This made going to the beach pool or local lakes pretty much a full-time lifeguard job for me during the years my kids were young and didn't know how to swim well. I would let them play, run around, go out in the deep water and even get that terrified "I'm over my head!!" look on their face while they flailed their arms around. It's get to let them stop panicking on their own. They learn their limits and I've only had to actually wade out and rescue them a handful of times. But I was basically scanning the water and counting my kids (I have five) every minute the whole time they were in the water. I'm glad they are all strong swimmers now.
- rexf 5y ago
  one tip is to use a floating life jacket. obviously you still need to constantly watch them, but using safety gear is a good idea
redis_mlc 5y ago
Thanks for posting that information. Another thing to keep in mind with infants/very young children is that if they get diarrhea, they can lose 30% of their weight (mostly water) in 2-3 days and die without hospitalization. So that means waiting a reasonable time for improvement at home can actually kill them. (I don't know how that kind of illness affects their future development.)
- smichel17 5y ago
  Same with cats! It's a common reason why many house plants which are toxic to cats are potentially fatal. They die of dehydration, not strictly poisoning.
irjustin 5y ago
Thanks for this. Not as far into the end as shock but I've learned to watch for the signs that my daughter is tired and crashing. Sometimes it's as small as being a little distant (harder, many possible reasons) to full on tantrum (much easier). If you've raised a baby, you'll know the concept of "overtired", but it was absolutely baffling to me as a first time parent. You're tired kid, just go to sleep!! But they won't unless the conditions are right. Miss the window and they'll go into overtired which causes them to scream/tantrum for way longer than anyone wants, again baffling.
- baq 5y ago
  yeah, they behave like they're tired, but they have no idea what's going on and they're afraid of the feeling or just don't like how it feels but don't know what to do about it. it's like sleep is independent of their will.
lordnacho 5y ago
I also find the kids can be having a massive tantrum, kicking and screaming for ages, and then moments later they're sleeping like rocks.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
fy20 5y ago
My family recently had norovirus ("winter" vomitting bug), which for healthy adults is pretty much nothing other than being stuck on the toilet for a day (as I was). My 2 yo however was in hospital for nearly a week on an IV because of this. As soon as my wife realised it wasn't just simple vomitting she called a doctor and they told us to go to hospital, so we were there within 3 hours of the first episode. My wife stayed with them in hospital, but because of corona I wasn't allowed to see them - which wasn't particularly nice for me and I'm sure was very traumatic for our kid. We have all recovered now, but yes it's somewhat surprising how quickly young kids can go downhill.
- andy81 5y ago
  Must have been bad- the normal recommendation for norovirus is to avoid hospital because it's so infectious. e.g. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/norovirus/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/norovirus/ That's what isolation wards are for, I suppose.
  - baq 5y ago
    my 2yo was dehydrated and on IV because of that, too. not uncommon for the smallest kids.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      A noro or rotavirus ripped through my 2 years olds daycare recently, and in a couple classrooms (including my kid), tons of kids got sick as well as teachers, but did not hear of any hospitalizations. The first evening was brutal though. 6 hours of drink, vomit, eat, vomit, drink, vomit, etc. My kid easily threw up 20+ times.
      - iamthepieman 5y ago
        If my kids vomit more than once they go on a cycle we've developed over the course of having five young children. First time, maybe a fluke. Check for other signs of illness, heat sickness, what did they eat recently, fever etc. Second time they get no food or water for two hours. Then small sips of water/Pedialyte If they don't vomit after the liquid they can eat a few bites of BRAT (banana rice applesauce or toast) if they do, wait another hour or two and repeat. If they're still vomitting after 6+ hours, depending on the child's age, we'll call the pediatrician and ask for advice. If they're still not keeping even liquids down after 8+ hours (again depending on age) we take them to the ER after consulting with the pediatrician again. We've only had to do that once. If at any time the child shows signs of dehydration we skip to the last step. Source - have 5 kids.
riffraff 5y ago
Oh man, I always thought my kid had shitty homeostasis but thought it boiled down to just having little mass, I never considered it might be an energy thing!
LoveMortuus 5y ago
When I was young I fell unconscious like four of five times and the doctors couldn't find why... If what you say is correct, it could be a possible explanation. Although I was never the very energetic running around kid due to having some complications at birth. I have learned though to notice when I'm about to go unconscious and find a chair or something so that I don't just fall on the ground and hurt myself. I once fell unconscious in a church which was fun because now I can joke that I was touched by the God. It's quite interesting how much we still don't know, especially about ourselves.
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  It might also be epilepsy. (That “falling unconscious in a church” reminded me of Silas Marner chapter 2… but then again, the author wasn't a doctor.)
aeternum 5y ago
Interesting, seems there's always a tradeoff

hutzlibu 5y ago

This is very important for any water related activities: many kids drowned because of this. Jumping, screaming and laughing in the water - the next moment gone. You have to pay attention. I do not mean, being overprotective, just pay really attention to them and you should notice, when they are about to reach their limits.

baq 5y ago
super important in the age of smartphone parents.
verytrivial 5y ago
Very true. With two kids in the pool you have to be like one of those auto-tipping novelty birds: you check, you look away at something else, YOU CHECK, you have a splash and a look at the sky, YOU CHECK ...
chasd00 5y ago
Very good point. My boys are 11 and 9, I can count 3 times I’ve gone in fully clothed with phone/wallet in pocket to pull them out of a pool after getting in trouble. For them, it was panicking when getting in over their head ( heh no pun intended). Panicking in deep water is bad news. Edit: I distinctly remember one time being at a party surrounded by adults but the only one noticing the emergency. It’s like when a kid gets in trouble with water they become almost invisible… it’s very strange.
- nradov 5y ago
  Drowning doesn't look like drowning. https://www.watersafetymagazine.com/drowning-doesnt-look-like-drowning/ https://www.watersafetymagazine.com/drowning-doesnt-look-lik...
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "It’s like when a kid gets in trouble with water they become almost invisible… it’s very strange." Well, it can be hard distingishing kids playing in water loudly and just ordinary play screaming - and kids panicking in water. It looks and sounds the same on first glance in many instances. Or rather not. When they are loud, they still have energy and their head well above the water. (you cannot shout so well, with water in your mouth) The scary part is, when they reached their limits and do not have the energy to panic anymore and just fade and drown. If that happens, it is very important to not panic yourself, go in quickly (but not headless) and maybe know some CPR basics if necessary. There are cases, where the drowned child got rescued, but the paniqued parent drowned dead. Or the other sibling. (not in pool, but in river/sea type scenarios) But better avoid that alltogether by paying attention before and choose the site accordingly. I mean I am also very often with my toddler at a river, where he can play at a shallow spot. I know it is dangerous if I stop paying attention to him, because the river has a strong current and rocks in it. And he already knows the dangers, but he overestimates himself quickly. He is the kid. I have the responsibility.
vbezhenar 5y ago
It's not only about kids. Plenty of people drowning in the same way, without loud cries, just silently. That's just how human brain wired for some reason.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  Shouting is hard, when you have the mouth full of water and fighting with your last strength to stay above the water.
iamthepieman 5y ago
This made going to the beach pool or local lakes pretty much a full-time lifeguard job for me during the years my kids were young and didn't know how to swim well. I would let them play, run around, go out in the deep water and even get that terrified "I'm over my head!!" look on their face while they flailed their arms around. It's get to let them stop panicking on their own. They learn their limits and I've only had to actually wade out and rescue them a handful of times. But I was basically scanning the water and counting my kids (I have five) every minute the whole time they were in the water. I'm glad they are all strong swimmers now.
rexf 5y ago
one tip is to use a floating life jacket. obviously you still need to constantly watch them, but using safety gear is a good idea

redis_mlc 5y ago

Thanks for posting that information. Another thing to keep in mind with infants/very young children is that if they get diarrhea, they can lose 30% of their weight (mostly water) in 2-3 days and die without hospitalization. So that means waiting a reasonable time for improvement at home can actually kill them. (I don't know how that kind of illness affects their future development.)

smichel17 5y ago
Same with cats! It's a common reason why many house plants which are toxic to cats are potentially fatal. They die of dehydration, not strictly poisoning.

irjustin 5y ago

Thanks for this. Not as far into the end as shock but I've learned to watch for the signs that my daughter is tired and crashing. Sometimes it's as small as being a little distant (harder, many possible reasons) to full on tantrum (much easier). If you've raised a baby, you'll know the concept of "overtired", but it was absolutely baffling to me as a first time parent. You're tired kid, just go to sleep!! But they won't unless the conditions are right. Miss the window and they'll go into overtired which causes them to scream/tantrum for way longer than anyone wants, again baffling.

baq 5y ago
yeah, they behave like they're tired, but they have no idea what's going on and they're afraid of the feeling or just don't like how it feels but don't know what to do about it. it's like sleep is independent of their will.

lordnacho 5y ago

I also find the kids can be having a massive tantrum, kicking and screaming for ages, and then moments later they're sleeping like rocks.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

fy20 5y ago

My family recently had norovirus ("winter" vomitting bug), which for healthy adults is pretty much nothing other than being stuck on the toilet for a day (as I was). My 2 yo however was in hospital for nearly a week on an IV because of this. As soon as my wife realised it wasn't just simple vomitting she called a doctor and they told us to go to hospital, so we were there within 3 hours of the first episode. My wife stayed with them in hospital, but because of corona I wasn't allowed to see them - which wasn't particularly nice for me and I'm sure was very traumatic for our kid. We have all recovered now, but yes it's somewhat surprising how quickly young kids can go downhill.

andy81 5y ago
Must have been bad- the normal recommendation for norovirus is to avoid hospital because it's so infectious. e.g. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/norovirus/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/norovirus/ That's what isolation wards are for, I suppose.
- baq 5y ago
  my 2yo was dehydrated and on IV because of that, too. not uncommon for the smallest kids.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    A noro or rotavirus ripped through my 2 years olds daycare recently, and in a couple classrooms (including my kid), tons of kids got sick as well as teachers, but did not hear of any hospitalizations. The first evening was brutal though. 6 hours of drink, vomit, eat, vomit, drink, vomit, etc. My kid easily threw up 20+ times.
    - iamthepieman 5y ago
      If my kids vomit more than once they go on a cycle we've developed over the course of having five young children. First time, maybe a fluke. Check for other signs of illness, heat sickness, what did they eat recently, fever etc. Second time they get no food or water for two hours. Then small sips of water/Pedialyte If they don't vomit after the liquid they can eat a few bites of BRAT (banana rice applesauce or toast) if they do, wait another hour or two and repeat. If they're still vomitting after 6+ hours, depending on the child's age, we'll call the pediatrician and ask for advice. If they're still not keeping even liquids down after 8+ hours (again depending on age) we take them to the ER after consulting with the pediatrician again. We've only had to do that once. If at any time the child shows signs of dehydration we skip to the last step. Source - have 5 kids.

riffraff 5y ago

Oh man, I always thought my kid had shitty homeostasis but thought it boiled down to just having little mass, I never considered it might be an energy thing!

LoveMortuus 5y ago

When I was young I fell unconscious like four of five times and the doctors couldn't find why... If what you say is correct, it could be a possible explanation. Although I was never the very energetic running around kid due to having some complications at birth. I have learned though to notice when I'm about to go unconscious and find a chair or something so that I don't just fall on the ground and hurt myself. I once fell unconscious in a church which was fun because now I can joke that I was touched by the God. It's quite interesting how much we still don't know, especially about ourselves.

wizzwizz4 5y ago
It might also be epilepsy. (That “falling unconscious in a church” reminded me of Silas Marner chapter 2… but then again, the author wasn't a doctor.)

aeternum 5y ago

Interesting, seems there's always a tradeoff