5 ms·

i probably have a comment somewhere recently, but singapore is already in WBT >35 conditions in the day. it eases to around 30 at night or when rain falls. as

i probably have a comment somewhere recently, but singapore is already in WBT >35 conditions in the day. it eases to around 30 at night or when rain falls. as long as power is running, it's actually fine in this country, but that's because we've designed our living space around the heat. it is entirely possible to never be exposed to the sun in a normal day in the life of a working resident here if you stay in the right neighbourhood, and this includes the daily commute, hobbies, physical activity, going out for drinks etc. more and more of the country is being built underground and more and more of our air is becoming conditioned. this is the arcology of the future and it is somewhat pleasant. edit: actually i think our infrastructure was built around protecting us from the harsh and unpredictable tropical thunderstorms and the protection from heat turned out to be a nice bonus.

nradov 5y ago
Lack of sun exposure can cause hypovitaminosis D, which is a known risk factor for COVID-19 and other infectious diseases. It also impacts nitric oxide production which is a factor in cardiovascular system health. Supplements can mitigate the problems to an extent but are inferior to natural sun exposure. And before anyone brings up skin cancer, there is no reliable evidence that brief daily sun exposure increases all cause mortality.
- losteric 5y ago
  > Supplements can mitigate the problems to an extent but are inferior to natural sun exposure. Inferior how?
  - akiselev 5y ago
    Supplements for fat soluble nutrients like vitamin D generally have poor bioavailability unless used with specialized emulsifiers for insoluble compounds that aren't widely used [1]. The body has a hard time buffering and storing the excess, which it can't filter out through the kidneys. It's like fast acting insulin versus insulin produced by a functioning pancreas - it's going to keep someone alive but it's not ideal for the body long term. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6631968/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6631968/
- WillDaSilva 5y ago
  > Supplements can mitigate the problems to an extent but are inferior to natural sun exposure. I've never heard of such a claim, and that seems unintuitive. Why would that be? Do you have a source you could direct me to to learn more about this?
  - chmod600 5y ago
    I have heard that sunlight also causes the skin to produce nitric oxide, which supposedly has all kinds of benefits. I am not claiming this and don't have a reliable source to point to.
  - binoct 5y ago
    My understanding is that it’s extremely hard to get large scale controlled studies on sun exposure vs vitimin d supplementation, so there is lots of uncertainty still on relative efficacy. I wouldn’t say certainly that it’s inferior to sun exposure, but sun exposure can clearly have many more effects than just stimulating production of vitimin d that could then appear to correlate with D serum levels. Some more reading specifically on vitimin D: https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-health%20Professional/ https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-health%20Professi...
  - sershe 5y ago
    Can't find it now, but this is probably based on a study/studies that I've seen that showed that lack of vitamin D is correlated with bad things, but supplementation doesn't fix the bad things nearly as much as you would expect. So, the idea some people have is that vitamin D is merely a correlate of something else that sun exposure does. I call it "sun magic" :) ...sometimes I secretly wonder if sunscreen (over-)use in America would one day be found to be the cause of rise in depression and other things like that over the last few decades, kinda like lead pipes of old. I don't think it's likely but it would be kinda funny.
poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
Yes, I sometimes feel like I'm at death's door when jogging outdoors. Myself and some Westerners I know haven't "adapted", even after years being here. The strategy is just always have ice water in hand if outdoors for prolonged time. I sometimes get laughed at for not adjusting to the heat, but I think it's just too much for some genetic lineages from outside tropics. Unfortunately a large percentage of folks in HDB flats don't have AC, so I do fear for many citizens in Singapore. With global warming trends it should simply be a free or heavily subsidized utility here.
- awakeasleep 5y ago
  I've been thinking about this, and it's seeming like childhood exposure to prolonged heat and humidity may be what gives you the ability to handle it as an adult. It's just an anecdote, of course, but there are notable examples of people i think should be from genetic backgrounds that could handle the heat that can't, and vice versa.
  - datameta 5y ago
    Without a reference handy to back this statement up I think there may indeed be epigenetic changes. Perhaps even more pronounced would be the experience of the mother in hotter environments during pregnancy.
- yann2 5y ago
  After a car accident, I had to depend on public transport in the boondocks where my job required shuttling from site to site in very humid hot tropical weather. I thought I was going to die that first week. One of the locals finally told me I couldnt just walk out of airconditioned low humidity offices into the street and roam around, without giving my body 10-15 minutes to recalibrate. So before setting out from air conditioned buildings, I would stand outside in the shade for a bit and then head out. And that made a big difference. I started sweating less and didnt feel humidity as much.
- JPKab 5y ago
  I used to work construction and when I was a teenager I worked on farms growing up in the rural South. If you work outside all day you adapt very quickly to it. During the adjustment period you are chugging water all the time but you eventually adjust. It's a circulation adaptation that's been observed with special forces recruits.
asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
https://data.gov.sg/dataset/wet-bulb-temperature-hourly?view_id=7ed27d62-730e-4986-8dee-72f1d243583e&resource_id=0195dc7a-2f49-4107-ac7c-3112ca4a09a8 https://data.gov.sg/dataset/wet-bulb-temperature-hourly?view... The Changi airport weather station does not have any recordings of a 35C wet bulb temperature. And this paper suggests that it is a very uncommon occurrence as yet. What source are you using?
- princeb 5y ago
  https://www.wbgt.sg/allstations https://www.wbgt.sg/allstations
  - jakewins 5y ago
    That is wet bulb globe temperature, not wet bulb temp. WBGT is calculated by adding together weighted WBT, globe temp and dry bulb temp. See: https://www.instrumentchoice.com.au/news/wet-bulb-temperature-vs-wet-bulb-globe-temperature-whats-the-difference https://www.instrumentchoice.com.au/news/wet-bulb-temperatur...
    - princeb 5y ago
      Yes sorry I shouldn’t be conflating two different concepts. Wbt >35 is the fatal temperature. Wbgt black (>31-32 depending on source) is where physical activity is dangerous.
ghshephard 5y ago
Having lived in Singapore for five years (2012-2017) (and worked out in the field for about 50% of that time) I can say that Singapore is one of the milder places to live. It never ever gets particularly hot (I genuinely can't recall a 100+ degree day in the entire time I was there), and the humidity, while, "sticky" is never really extreme. The thing that gets to you is that the climate never seems to change (with the exception of a lot of rain) - it's always pretty humid and in the high 70s/low 80s, 24x7x365. Once you acclimate to it though - it's fine - I used to do a 5 mile run every day from Anson Road/GardensByTheBay/MBS - wasn't an issue. I worked in Dubai for about 6 months, and there were days there that I honestly thought I might die if I didn't get somewhere cool. And it wasn't the days that were 115 degrees Fahrenheit (46 Celsius) (though those were intense) - but the 100-105 degrees at super high humidity that would knock you on your back. Your entire body would be instantly bathed in sweat and it wouldn't help. I was fine without Air Conditioning in Singapore - would sometimes turn mine off and just open the windows, but I can imagine anyone doing that in Dubai during the hot season.
- poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
  > I can say that Singapore is one of the milder places to live. It never ever gets particularly hot Singapore is almost exactly on the equator. UV readings get up to 11 each day (extreme), whereas the most I ever saw in say SF was 5. Your experience is one experience, mine is that it's a sauna every day of the year. I've experienced extremely hot days in terms of subjective experience of WBT as explained in article. My gf, a local here, also decries the heat. I personally cannot go running before 5:30pm. I got a major sunburn on my back at 5:30pm the time I tried running shirtless at east coast park. Granted, I am pale.
  - Clewza313 5y ago
    As a fellow Singapore resident, it's undoubtedly hot. The parent's point was that there are places like the Gulf that are unquestionably hotter. I once visited Kuwait in August, and it was 52 degrees in the shade with near-100% humidity. I genuinely do not understand how some people survive there today without aircon, much less how they will do so if temps go up a few more degrees.

nradov 5y ago

Lack of sun exposure can cause hypovitaminosis D, which is a known risk factor for COVID-19 and other infectious diseases. It also impacts nitric oxide production which is a factor in cardiovascular system health. Supplements can mitigate the problems to an extent but are inferior to natural sun exposure. And before anyone brings up skin cancer, there is no reliable evidence that brief daily sun exposure increases all cause mortality.

losteric 5y ago
> Supplements can mitigate the problems to an extent but are inferior to natural sun exposure. Inferior how?
- akiselev 5y ago
  Supplements for fat soluble nutrients like vitamin D generally have poor bioavailability unless used with specialized emulsifiers for insoluble compounds that aren't widely used [1]. The body has a hard time buffering and storing the excess, which it can't filter out through the kidneys. It's like fast acting insulin versus insulin produced by a functioning pancreas - it's going to keep someone alive but it's not ideal for the body long term. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6631968/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6631968/
WillDaSilva 5y ago
> Supplements can mitigate the problems to an extent but are inferior to natural sun exposure. I've never heard of such a claim, and that seems unintuitive. Why would that be? Do you have a source you could direct me to to learn more about this?
- chmod600 5y ago
  I have heard that sunlight also causes the skin to produce nitric oxide, which supposedly has all kinds of benefits. I am not claiming this and don't have a reliable source to point to.
- binoct 5y ago
  My understanding is that it’s extremely hard to get large scale controlled studies on sun exposure vs vitimin d supplementation, so there is lots of uncertainty still on relative efficacy. I wouldn’t say certainly that it’s inferior to sun exposure, but sun exposure can clearly have many more effects than just stimulating production of vitimin d that could then appear to correlate with D serum levels. Some more reading specifically on vitimin D: https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-health%20Professional/ https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-health%20Professi...
- sershe 5y ago
  Can't find it now, but this is probably based on a study/studies that I've seen that showed that lack of vitamin D is correlated with bad things, but supplementation doesn't fix the bad things nearly as much as you would expect. So, the idea some people have is that vitamin D is merely a correlate of something else that sun exposure does. I call it "sun magic" :) ...sometimes I secretly wonder if sunscreen (over-)use in America would one day be found to be the cause of rise in depression and other things like that over the last few decades, kinda like lead pipes of old. I don't think it's likely but it would be kinda funny.

poorjohnmacafee 5y ago

Yes, I sometimes feel like I'm at death's door when jogging outdoors. Myself and some Westerners I know haven't "adapted", even after years being here. The strategy is just always have ice water in hand if outdoors for prolonged time. I sometimes get laughed at for not adjusting to the heat, but I think it's just too much for some genetic lineages from outside tropics. Unfortunately a large percentage of folks in HDB flats don't have AC, so I do fear for many citizens in Singapore. With global warming trends it should simply be a free or heavily subsidized utility here.

awakeasleep 5y ago
I've been thinking about this, and it's seeming like childhood exposure to prolonged heat and humidity may be what gives you the ability to handle it as an adult. It's just an anecdote, of course, but there are notable examples of people i think should be from genetic backgrounds that could handle the heat that can't, and vice versa.
- datameta 5y ago
  Without a reference handy to back this statement up I think there may indeed be epigenetic changes. Perhaps even more pronounced would be the experience of the mother in hotter environments during pregnancy.
yann2 5y ago
After a car accident, I had to depend on public transport in the boondocks where my job required shuttling from site to site in very humid hot tropical weather. I thought I was going to die that first week. One of the locals finally told me I couldnt just walk out of airconditioned low humidity offices into the street and roam around, without giving my body 10-15 minutes to recalibrate. So before setting out from air conditioned buildings, I would stand outside in the shade for a bit and then head out. And that made a big difference. I started sweating less and didnt feel humidity as much.
JPKab 5y ago
I used to work construction and when I was a teenager I worked on farms growing up in the rural South. If you work outside all day you adapt very quickly to it. During the adjustment period you are chugging water all the time but you eventually adjust. It's a circulation adaptation that's been observed with special forces recruits.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

https://data.gov.sg/dataset/wet-bulb-temperature-hourly?view_id=7ed27d62-730e-4986-8dee-72f1d243583e&resource_id=0195dc7a-2f49-4107-ac7c-3112ca4a09a8 https://data.gov.sg/dataset/wet-bulb-temperature-hourly?view... The Changi airport weather station does not have any recordings of a 35C wet bulb temperature. And this paper suggests that it is a very uncommon occurrence as yet. What source are you using?

princeb 5y ago
https://www.wbgt.sg/allstations https://www.wbgt.sg/allstations
- jakewins 5y ago
  That is wet bulb globe temperature, not wet bulb temp. WBGT is calculated by adding together weighted WBT, globe temp and dry bulb temp. See: https://www.instrumentchoice.com.au/news/wet-bulb-temperature-vs-wet-bulb-globe-temperature-whats-the-difference https://www.instrumentchoice.com.au/news/wet-bulb-temperatur...
  - princeb 5y ago
    Yes sorry I shouldn’t be conflating two different concepts. Wbt >35 is the fatal temperature. Wbgt black (>31-32 depending on source) is where physical activity is dangerous.

ghshephard 5y ago

Having lived in Singapore for five years (2012-2017) (and worked out in the field for about 50% of that time) I can say that Singapore is one of the milder places to live. It never ever gets particularly hot (I genuinely can't recall a 100+ degree day in the entire time I was there), and the humidity, while, "sticky" is never really extreme. The thing that gets to you is that the climate never seems to change (with the exception of a lot of rain) - it's always pretty humid and in the high 70s/low 80s, 24x7x365. Once you acclimate to it though - it's fine - I used to do a 5 mile run every day from Anson Road/GardensByTheBay/MBS - wasn't an issue. I worked in Dubai for about 6 months, and there were days there that I honestly thought I might die if I didn't get somewhere cool. And it wasn't the days that were 115 degrees Fahrenheit (46 Celsius) (though those were intense) - but the 100-105 degrees at super high humidity that would knock you on your back. Your entire body would be instantly bathed in sweat and it wouldn't help. I was fine without Air Conditioning in Singapore - would sometimes turn mine off and just open the windows, but I can imagine anyone doing that in Dubai during the hot season.

poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
> I can say that Singapore is one of the milder places to live. It never ever gets particularly hot Singapore is almost exactly on the equator. UV readings get up to 11 each day (extreme), whereas the most I ever saw in say SF was 5. Your experience is one experience, mine is that it's a sauna every day of the year. I've experienced extremely hot days in terms of subjective experience of WBT as explained in article. My gf, a local here, also decries the heat. I personally cannot go running before 5:30pm. I got a major sunburn on my back at 5:30pm the time I tried running shirtless at east coast park. Granted, I am pale.
- Clewza313 5y ago
  As a fellow Singapore resident, it's undoubtedly hot. The parent's point was that there are places like the Gulf that are unquestionably hotter. I once visited Kuwait in August, and it was 52 degrees in the shade with near-100% humidity. I genuinely do not understand how some people survive there today without aircon, much less how they will do so if temps go up a few more degrees.