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I still fail to see why people are so vehemently opposed to masks. Yes, they are annoying but is it really that big of a deal? And it's usually not staff that a

I still fail to see why people are so vehemently opposed to masks. Yes, they are annoying but is it really that big of a deal? And it's usually not staff that are required to wear them for extended periods that get so upset about them - it's people that have to put one on for a few minutes while shopping. Of all things to be upset about, why is this the hill so many people are determined to die on?

atoav 5y ago
In cold winters I used to wear a scarf around my mouth while running, which was magnitudes more restricting to breathing than any mask. I guess most people who complain do it "out of principle" because they want to see themselves as the type of person who cannot be forced to do anything by authorities. Weirdly other believes are really authotarian. Are you really free when you don't use your own head but reflexively do/don't do something just because you like/dislike the person which says it?
- pandaman 5y ago
  >Are you really free when you don't use your own head but reflexively do/don't do something just because you like/dislike the person which says it? Not quite sure what is the point you are trying to make. If you ask somebody why they don't want to do something for you and one replies "Fuck you, that's why!" do you imply that this person is not free because he or she denied your request based on personal animosity and not "using own head"? Or is it something else you wanted to say?
  - atoav 5y ago
    The question I ask is simple: If you always do the opposite of what your enemy says you should do, are you more free or less free than someone who decides on their own merits what they wanna do or not? That is a valid question in this day and age, with a death toll attached.
    - pandaman 5y ago
      Nobody always does the opposite though. Nor anybody always does what their friends say. Regardless it's orthogonal to freedom, being free includes being able to always do the opposite of what one's told.
      - atoav 5y ago
        Oh, replace enemy with "government" and friend with "authoritative leader". I am not US citizen and just observe US politics from the outside, but what seems spot on is the way many republicans choose self-harming options just to "own the libs" or do the opposite of what an authority tells them they should do it (e.g. wear masks, get vaccinated). Sure they will not always do the opposite of what their opposition party says, but the constructive "we don't care what the libs say, we do it because it is the right thing"-topics are kinda rare these days.
        pandaman 5y ago
        I see, you probably should lay off Twitter. JFYI, the "authoritative leader" is advertising [2] covid vaccination (if you meant Trump, as I suspect) and if you find out who does not get vaccinated, you will be surprised, I promise (also if you find out who are the "antivaxxers" i.e. the people against all and any vaccines, not just the covid, then another big surprise's incoming). As for masking, I for one don't wear a mask because I read the studies [1], I have not heard the "authoritative leader" advertising them one way or another and certainly not because I think they are beneficial for me but I want to own the libs. Can't say for everyone but I suspect a lot of people are like me, not necessarily reading studies but do what they think benefits them. 1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/ 2. https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/politics/donald-trump-covid-19-vaccine/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/politics/donald-trump-covid-1...
        atoav 5y ago
        I don't even have twitter and I don't live in the US. Also: the consequence of your study shouldn't be not to wear masks, but to wear masks that work (the study just shows evidence for plain cloth masks, which at least everybody on central europe stopped wearing in the second wave). Also: there are manyfold reason to do something of course. I'd be highly interested in the rational explaination of the GOP policy on all things covid tho (first the virus didn't exist and simulataneously was just like the flu for example). This might not have been the common joes opinion, but watching capa it certainly painted a clear picture
MattGaiser 5y ago
Some people just refuse authority of any kind. I know people who litter to stick it to the government as they saw a "no littering" sign.
- el-salvador 5y ago
  Where I live mask compliance is high. Even if it's a country were rules and laws are rarely followed. Saying this in a place were buses don't stop at bus stops, while they consistently stop in front "no bus stop" signs.
- mindslight 5y ago
  The thing is that actual anti-authoritarianism is quite rare. The litterbug in your example is still choosing their actions based on authority. And most anti-mask/anti-vax seem to be following authorities, but malevolent ones. From a libertarian perspective, a refrain of "freedom" about what is ultimately herd action is a performative fig leaf that burns goodwill towards the general concept. If the Covid situation were transposed onto drugs, it's as if hard drugs were legal but still discouraged, and we had an entire political movement turning themselves and their kids into junkies just to spite public health.
dilap 5y ago
Looking at human faces greatly enriches our sense of connection to the people around us. I feel much more isolated when everyone is wearing masks.
- everdrive 5y ago
  Is this really true in Wal-Mart, though?
  - bradlys 5y ago
    The problem is - mask mandates are not just in big box stores. If that was the case, most of us wouldn’t give a shit. It’s just that it’s everywhere. And to make it worse - these mask mandates are preventing a lot of social venues from happening because very few people want to go to some of these social venues with a mask on. It’ll likely be two years since I’ve been able to go to a social dance by the time we are getting back to “normal”. Tons of events people were planning for September are now back to cancelled indefinitely. People aren’t able to commit to big events anymore because now the government is acting unpredictably and causing a lot of panic among people. Dancing is a super high risk venue. And btw - people are cancelling these events when they required all attendees to be vaccinated. So, it’s fucking over people who are 100% vaccinated and take plenty of precautions.
  - aantix 5y ago
    I enjoy chatting with the cashiers. We're all just trying to get through our days and be friendly.
- eej71 5y ago
  I agree very much with this. Many of us rely on facial expressions - both sending and receiving - to improve communication. Its a big loss for some of us and I look forward to masks going away.
- aantix 5y ago
  Agree. I want to see smiles. I can't even tell if someone is laughing at my jokes. Tones are muffled. They're awful. And eventually I will just stop. My time is finite. Eventually I will just experience life how I want to, and stop living indefinitely for some other vague, "we're all in this together" goal.
jimmaswell 5y ago
It just turned every outing into a chore. I've been enjoying being able to smell the places I go to again.
- peteretep 5y ago
  > It just turned every outing into a chore I’ve been in countries with outdoor mask mandates almost since the start of this thing, and I don’t really understand this. How has it become a chore? Don’t you just pick up a mask from a pack or a reusable one as you leave your home? I haven’t noticed any difference in sense of smell, albeit my sense of smell is very keen. But again, what’s the chore here? It just feels like habit
  - brigandish 5y ago
    > Don’t you just pick up a mask from a pack or a reusable one as you leave your home? > It just feels like habit That's as close to the meaning of chore as one could expect in a comment, and why are you extending your own experience to others who are explicitly telling you that they find it uncomfortable and a nuisance? I can't imagine that kind of thing working with any other article of clothing but masks seem to have their own special status, even though they affect breathing. It's not a serious position to take.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  Not smelling some places is a large positive. I really don't miss smelling supermarkets and the stores that insist on odorizing every one of their products.
- umvi 5y ago
  > It just turned every outing into a chore Especially if you have young kids. Airports are an absolute nightmare now with a 2-year-old that doesn't like wearing a mask.
  - system16 5y ago
    I get this, but when the alternative is spreading a virus that can have vulnerable people end up on a ventilator or worse... is it not a small price to pay? My nephew also goes nuts when he is strapped into a car seat, but sometimes you just need to deal with meltdowns and teach kids that they can't always get their way.
jsight 5y ago
Because they were afraid that they'd be here for the long term, and didn't want to tolerate that? Articles like this just confirm those fears.
- linuxftw 5y ago
  Don't worry, it's just two weeks to flatten the curve.
  - TheHypnotist 5y ago
    Stupid meme responses like this are counter-productive. Imagine if for a period of time everyone wore masks when necessary and when the time finally came, vaccinated if they are able to. We wouldn't be having this discussion. But I'm glad the unprecedented nature of this event has given you the opportunity to regurgitate low level quips.
    - linuxftw 5y ago
      You think it's stupid, I think it's poignant. The situation we're in now was all perfectly predictable. Bad science, bad models, and bad medicine from the jump. The government will never admit it's failures.
      - TheHypnotist 5y ago
        My guess is that you couldn't be less qualified to make such an evaluation. The evolution of this pandemic has been something difficult to predict. The only certainty now is that vaccination is the key to moving on.
        linuxftw 5y ago
        Where I live it's less than 60% vaccination for adults. Most of the 3rd world is not vaccinated. Vaccinating the entire planet was never a solution to a respiratory virus that will mutate quickly. The vaccination campaign was always going to be a failure. > My guess is that you couldn't be less qualified to make such an evaluation. I'm as qualified as the president or any governor. I'm capable of understanding facts and making a decision like any other person on the planet.
ursugardaddy 5y ago
Well, do you only wear one while grocery shopping? how much time do you spent outside of your home?
nemo44x 5y ago
If you got vaccinated you did your part. And now you're being asked to wear a mask so you lessen the chance of spreading a disease to people who didn't get vaccinated and could get very sick because of that personal choice. They made their choice and that's fine - but why should the vaccinated (who put an experimental molecule into their bodies for the greater good) now have to carry the burden for them?
- KittenInABox 5y ago
  You are also masking to protect children and people who have immune conditions that make vaccination less effective/prevent them from receiving vaccinations. That's millions of people who are unvaccinated through reasons outside of personal choice.
  - core-utility 5y ago
    > That's millions of people who are unvaccinated through reasons outside of personal choice. Do you have a source?
  - cousin_it 5y ago
    > You are also masking to protect children That's a weak reason. Only 349 people below 18 have died of corona in the US since the start of the pandemic.
    - slumdev 5y ago
      All 349 of them had serious preexisting conditions. (Not to say that each of the 349 isn't a tragedy, only that the coronavirus is unequivocally not dangerous to children without preexisting conditions.) Also - if you're considering it, please save the "long covid" histrionics. We used to call that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and there's no reason to believe "long covid" is different, scarier, or more prevalent than CFS. I have a strong suspicion that the patient's psychological suggestibility and media consumption are greater predictors of "long covid" than infection.
    - nemo44x 5y ago
hirundo 5y ago
> I still fail to see why people are so vehemently opposed to masks. For me the sense of suffocation is strong and despite dozens of hours in one I have not grown accustomed to it, or even more tolerant of it. It's bad enough that while I'm willing to mask up for an emergency, as a permanent thing I would rather accept a bit more risk of a terrible disease or death. The size of the acceptable risk for me has only grown over time. Given the number of people who insist on wearing a mask in a way that gives nobody any protection, I'm not alone in this.
briefcomment 5y ago
Breathing is noticeably harder. There's probably some low grade physiological stress when you use a mask. I don't know how people who wear them long term feel comfortable with that.
- TheHypnotist 5y ago
  Probably low grade physiological stress? Please cite something on this. Also, doctors? Nurses? Different types of contractors? They've been doing this a while.
  - aantix 5y ago
    If I talk too fast, I experience the stress that the parent experiences. It sucks.
  - briefcomment 5y ago
    You need a citation for this? I feel the urge to shift my mask every couple minutes to get some uninhibited breathing in. Without it, I start to get a headache. Why would you think restricting air flow would not cause issues for some, especially those with higher metabolism (i.e. oxygen consumption). Kids generally have higher metabolisms than adults, which made me feel particularly horrified about the mask mandates in schools. The sad thing is kids don't know any better, and trust older people who are telling them what to do, so there's probably many who feel noticeably worse and don't know why.
- slumdev 5y ago
  > There's probably some low grade physiological stress when you use a mask. When you inhale, your diaphragm contracts and creates a negative pressure inside your thoracic cavity (relative to the outside atmosphere's 101.3 kPa). This pressure, ordinarily, is proportional to the force with which your diaphragm contracts. Adding a layer of fabric restricts the outside air's ability to flow into your thoracic cavity and equalize the pressure. It's like having a congested nose but being unable to open your mouth to bypass the congestion. There's also the problem of carbon dioxide buildup within the mask. Your unconscious breathing effort is ordinarily controlled by the partial pressure of carbon dioxide in your blood. Carbon dioxide levels, not oxygen levels, are what make you feel "out of breath". The lungs may hold almost a liter of air, but an ordinary unconscious breath exchanges only a tiny fraction of this. That unconscious breath is so small that a large percentage of it may come from air trapped inside your mask, and your alveoli end up being faced with a much higher percentage of carbon dioxide in the air into which they are trying to exhaust carbon dioxide from your blood. Problems all around.
ch4s3 5y ago
I'm not opposed to cooperating with more masking out of hand, but I do wonder how effective it is, and what the evidence looks like. I know the support initially for just using any mask at all was predicated on the idea of spread primarily happening via droplets. I believe we now know that the virus is shed and spread by much smaller particles, and I doubt cloth masks or poorly fitted medical masks help much with that. I have a giant box of KN95s that I used in some settings, and I often feel air moving in and out around the sides, and they fit pretty well. I don't want to go through the whole exercise if it isn't actually doing anything useful. [edit] I'm not sure what people are opposed to here. I am as I said happy to comply with public health measures that work and are supported by evidence.
BiteCode_dev 5y ago
I could tell you how much blend new human relationships have become in my little bubble since the covid plan has been in place but I don't think that's the gist of it. The gist of it is the stigma. People feel marked. Dehumanized. Forced to wear the stuff by people that they don't respect or trust. COVID is as much a health crisis as it's a trust crisis: people in charge have exhausted their credibility during the last decades of misbehavior, and citizens don't want to wear a mask because the message comes from those they have nothing but disrespect for. The condescending tone of the citizens than are actually defending masking and vaccinating doesn't help either. I'm vaccinated, but if you call anti-vax names, you are part of the problem. People have been screwed over for years, covid communication has been fubar, and we are all under a lot of pressure, so be compassionate. They have more chance to join the team if you understand their grudge than if you insult them.
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  There's a bit of dissonance here, since Americans frequently complain that medical care is so expensive it can bankrupt a family, yet most of those who oppose hygiene measures against COVID don't seem to be wealthy enough to take the risk. It's more like they don't even believe the virus is dangerous.
  - kodyo 5y ago
    It's more that some people are willing to tolerate risk that others aren't. The virus is really dangerous if you're old, fat, and almost dead anyway.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    It’s political - that’s why. The people opposing masks, vaccines, and lockdowns (to the point of non-compliance) are mostly folks who are listening to conservative talking points. And it’s nothing new to know that most of those folks who listen to such talking points typically aren’t wealthy.
    - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
bradleyjg 5y ago
The kind of masks that everyone is wearing and everyone is okay with everyone wearing are pretty close to useless. Given that context it’s pretty easy to see that this debate about visible public rituals is a proxy fight about other things, for both sides. Someone wearing a bandana loosely over his face is conforming to the social norms. That it does nothing for preventing covid 19 isn’t the point.
brigandish 5y ago
> I still fail to see why people are so vehemently opposed to masks. In my case it's driven because of a) evidence for their being effective at all is lacking[1], and b) as you rightly put it “they are annoying”. I'm not sure why I wouldn't be against that. Additionally, I live in Japan where the kind of mask-adherence those back in the west can only have wet dreams about is the norm here, and there's no evidence it's helped here either. You may have noticed the lack of crowds at the Olympics as Tokyo is under a state of emergency due to a wave of cases. Masks just don't seem to have any effect against the delta variant. I'm not surprised. [1] https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/ https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-...
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > I'm not sure why I wouldn't be against that. Additionally, I live in Japan where the kind of mask-adherence those back in the west can only have wet dreams about is the norm here, and there's no evidence it's helped here either. Per https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-cases.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-cases.h...: Japan: 818 all time cases per 100k capita. US: 10,793 all time cases per 100k capita. I don't think that's "no evidence it's helped here either." It's is evidence that masks didn't completely solve the problem. But mitigations aren't bad. You have to keep in mind that different places have different ideas of what "failure looks like." Many Americans seem to think failure is only when they, as an individual, are personally dying of COVID right now.
  - criticaltinker 5y ago
    > But mitigations aren't bad I support wearing a mask for individuals who are symptomatic or have a positive test result. Beyond that, it's likely that mandatory nonpharmaceutical interventions such as masks and lockdowns will be bad for public health in the long run. Consider the possibility that all the masking and isolation we've done is setting us up for an extremely bad flu season in the coming year or two [1]. We see the same pattern in forest management, where by constantly preventing the small natural forest fires, we unintentionally set the stage for massive record breaking wildfires. [1] The impact of COVID-19 nonpharmaceutical interventions on the future dynamics of endemic infections https://www.pnas.org/content/117/48/30547 https://www.pnas.org/content/117/48/30547
BurningFrog 5y ago
If you think your government is a bunch of corrupt incompetent jerks, submitting to their orders can feel intolerable. Even if the hoop you're told to jump through is low and large, you still feel like a caged animal forced to do tricks. Rage Against the Machine explains the mindset in a more emotional way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWXazVhlyxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWXazVhlyxQ
umvi 5y ago
Because they are little more than theater. They are mainly a social signal at this point. If you: - fervently wear a mask it is a social signal that you are 100% on board with any/all government public health mandates. - fervently don't wear a mask it is a social signal that you are 100% NOT on board with any/all government public health mandates - wear a mask depending on if the people around you are wearing a mask it is a social signal that you don't have strong opinions either way and that you don't want to offend anyone or get called out so you just follow the crowd to blend in I can deduce whether someone thinks like me based on if they use a mask like me.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  Even if they literally, provably did nothing, I'd still wear one out of courtesy to others if it would make them feel more secure. We're still talking about a small piece of cloth, right? It's practically zero cost, and there are no down sides. It's about as much of a hassle as putting on underwear or wearing a seat belt. It's sad that basic courtesy, decency, and the sense of doing something (if only a shibboleth) for your community, have become politicized. Toxic Orthodox Individualism has become a religion.
  - justwanttolearn 5y ago
    I felt this exact sentiment for awhile but I've changed my stance. The reason is because for a lot of them they feel secure because everyone is doing it, so this is a real social fear that they have, rather than from the virus itself. People act on groupthink very easily and if masks does not work or work minimally and people stop wearing them, more and more people will stop wearing them as well when they see that it's not a big deal. I do not wear them outside but I do wear them indoors at grocery stores or small spaces that are poorly ventilated.
  - horrified 5y ago
    Then please also wear a tinfoil hat, that would make me feel more secure, too. I think it reflects the sunlight and thereby prevents global warming, that will otherwise kill us all.
  - 5y ago
underseacables 5y ago
I think people are choosing this hill to die on because give an inch, take a mile. I think there’s something fundamentally wrong with a group of people feels like they can force another group to do as they are told, specifically to wear a certain item, or have a certain label. Masks have not been shown to be useful, yet there is a Cabal of people who are absolutely devoted to the idea. I think they have internalized masks as their badge of honor, and get upset that others don’t agree with them. In short, I think the push to require the wearing of masks is rooted more in personal ego than it is in actual health benefits.
AndrewBissell 5y ago
They have been shown to disrupt key aspects of human communication. Personally, I've had friends tell me how much they like that everyone is in masks because they no longer strike up conversations during random encounters, say in the grocery store. It contributes to a sense of permanent emergency which should be gone by now given that the vast majority of the at-risk population is vaccinated. At this point I don't see the purpose of attempting to stop or slow the spread of an endemic respiratory virus, that is just a fool's errand at this point. They also probably don't work, or at least not very well. People used to point to the Asian countries that hadn't had big outbreaks as evidence that population-wide mask compliance could work to prevent transmission, but that is no longer the case as they have all had big outbreaks. Even China had to halt traffic in and out of Wuhan recently.
criticaltinker 5y ago
On one hand masks are an easy way to reduce the transmission of pathogens. On the other hand there are legitimate scientific & public health concerns regarding mass enforcement of nonpharmaceutical interventions such as lockdowns, masks, etc [1]. It's really not clear that mask mandates will be a net win for society if we begin to see the predictions in [1] play out - we'll just have to see how bad the flu season is in the coming winters. [1] The impact of COVID-19 nonpharmaceutical interventions on the future dynamics of endemic infections https://www.pnas.org/content/117/48/30547 https://www.pnas.org/content/117/48/30547
tablespoon 5y ago
> I still fail to see why people are so vehemently opposed to masks. Yes, they are annoying but is it really that big of a deal? Because they want to prove that America is weak, because it cannot deal with any serious problem that requires a small personal sacrifice. Alternatively, they want to prove America is weak, because they want to prove that a bunch of partisan shit-stirrers can turn any issue into a culture-war debacle and that the marketplace of ideas doesn't work.
goatlover 5y ago
It's one thing to have to wear masks everywhere before the vaccines became widely available. That was a necessary annoyance to stem the tide, which shouldn't have been politicized. It's another thing after mandates went away for several months because in the US at least, since most adults can easily be fully vaccinated. Now it feels like a temporary annoyance is being turned into a long term one even after many of us wore masks, social distanced and got vaccinated.
silicon2401 5y ago
Do you fail to see why, or do you fail to agree? There are many people out there who would be happy to tell you their reasons before you even ask. > why is this the hill so many people are determined to die on? As someone who hates emoting facially, I love the mask norm. However it's also important to remember the popular phrase "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." This phrase is popular because it expresses the way many Americans, including myself, treasure freedom above all else, so any sacrifices of freedom should be done slowly or not at all if possible. Compulsory mask-wearing is as anti-freedom as compulsory haircuts (Chinese queue, Russian beard tax). Your argument is insincere or uninformed because it can be used to justify huge changes in society by singling out a minor facet of a larger issue, calling it a tiny hill that's not worth dying on, then moving on to another minor facet, until the whole landscape has been traversed.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > However it's also important to remember the popular phrase "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." This phrase is popular because it expresses the way many Americans, including myself, treasure freedom above all else, so any sacrifices of freedom should be done slowly or not at all if possible. That's a bad quote to reason from. The key word there is actually "essential" and is left totally undefined. This also demonstrates America's Achilles' heel, because that sentiment can easily be twisted into an argument against any kind of responsibility or sacrifice. I know many non-Americans, and the pandemic has disillusioned them towards America. They used to admire it a lot, but now they've seen so many Americans use liberty-rhetoric to justify acting in stupid and selfish ways that they think much less highly of it and those so-called ideals. America was supposed to prove the value of its ideals by being better at handling the pandemic than other countries, instead it's used those ideals as a justification for its failure, which is not a good look from any angle.
pseudo0 5y ago
I work in an office with a 100% vaccination rate, and yet we've recently been instructed to wear masks at all times. Wearing a mask 8 hours a day is very uncomfortable, the benefit is likely extremely marginal at best, and the policymaking class pushing this nonsense is off partying maskless at Obama's birthday party, because they're "sophisticated" enough to make their own decisions. The whole situation is just very frustrating.
- deleted 5y ago
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- iwintermute 5y ago
  I feel like if you have to hide your face behind the mask - there's no need to be present in the office at all. Video call would actually be better.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Masks suck, but they are necessary, I get why people would complain about them. Vaccines, on the other hand, are super easy to get, just a couple of pricks. I really don't get the people who don't do that!
RhysU 5y ago
> Of all things to be upset about, why is this the hill so many people are determined to die on? Wearing a helmet when riding in a car is likely safer, with appropriate seat belts, but we don't wear helmets and 5-point harnesses in passenger cars. To turn around your question: Why do so many people insist on turning masks into a hill? Masks are just one of many ways humanity can be marginally safer in an incredibly annoying fashion. Like wearing helmets in every passenger car.
- seanp2k2 5y ago
  I personally wish cars could be factory-optioned with 5points as I don’t find them uncomfortable, prefer to be held into the seat as it feels more secure for fun recreational driving, and the extra safety is nice. I’d have one in my sports car but unfortunately the factory hasn’t made it easy to fit. Doing it properly requires new racing seats and a full custom roll cage. It’s easily >$10k worth of work.
michaelt 5y ago
> I still fail to see why people are so vehemently opposed to masks. Masks are a proxy, standing in for all the other ways non-pharmaceutical interventions are disrupting our lives. After all, it'd be absurd for me to wear a mask while sitting shoulder-to-shoulder with strangers in a packed theatre. A world in which I must wear a mask is a world in which I must not go to the theatre. It's understandable that people are salty about the loss of concerts and music festivals and exercise classes and knitting groups and nightclubs and mass transit and dating and fine dining and protests and tourism and visiting friends and gyms and casual sex and theatre and nonessential flights and the entire college experience.
grillvogel 5y ago
im opposed because as a parent of young kids i feel the risks to them from covid are much lower than the risks to their mental health growing up in this dystopian mask world. children need to see other human faces as part of their normal development, mandatory masks in schools seems cruel to me. it makes me really sad when i see parents making their kids wear masks at the beach and other pointless displays, or even worse the parent with no mask but forcing their kids to wear them. how are these kids going to turn out in 20 years?
teeray 5y ago
People want 2019 normal back. Masks are incompatible with that, no matter how much some people like them.
kcplate 5y ago
Because (at least in the US) leaders and experts waffled on the efficacy and necessity and in some bizzaro world logic decided to make masking a political virtue which polluted all hope of it being taken seriously by many as a scientifically feasible method for combating the pandemic.

atoav 5y ago

In cold winters I used to wear a scarf around my mouth while running, which was magnitudes more restricting to breathing than any mask. I guess most people who complain do it "out of principle" because they want to see themselves as the type of person who cannot be forced to do anything by authorities. Weirdly other believes are really authotarian. Are you really free when you don't use your own head but reflexively do/don't do something just because you like/dislike the person which says it?

pandaman 5y ago
>Are you really free when you don't use your own head but reflexively do/don't do something just because you like/dislike the person which says it? Not quite sure what is the point you are trying to make. If you ask somebody why they don't want to do something for you and one replies "Fuck you, that's why!" do you imply that this person is not free because he or she denied your request based on personal animosity and not "using own head"? Or is it something else you wanted to say?
- atoav 5y ago
  The question I ask is simple: If you always do the opposite of what your enemy says you should do, are you more free or less free than someone who decides on their own merits what they wanna do or not? That is a valid question in this day and age, with a death toll attached.
  - pandaman 5y ago
    Nobody always does the opposite though. Nor anybody always does what their friends say. Regardless it's orthogonal to freedom, being free includes being able to always do the opposite of what one's told.
    - atoav 5y ago
      Oh, replace enemy with "government" and friend with "authoritative leader". I am not US citizen and just observe US politics from the outside, but what seems spot on is the way many republicans choose self-harming options just to "own the libs" or do the opposite of what an authority tells them they should do it (e.g. wear masks, get vaccinated). Sure they will not always do the opposite of what their opposition party says, but the constructive "we don't care what the libs say, we do it because it is the right thing"-topics are kinda rare these days.
      - pandaman 5y ago
        I see, you probably should lay off Twitter. JFYI, the "authoritative leader" is advertising [2] covid vaccination (if you meant Trump, as I suspect) and if you find out who does not get vaccinated, you will be surprised, I promise (also if you find out who are the "antivaxxers" i.e. the people against all and any vaccines, not just the covid, then another big surprise's incoming). As for masking, I for one don't wear a mask because I read the studies [1], I have not heard the "authoritative leader" advertising them one way or another and certainly not because I think they are beneficial for me but I want to own the libs. Can't say for everyone but I suspect a lot of people are like me, not necessarily reading studies but do what they think benefits them. 1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/ 2. https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/politics/donald-trump-covid-19-vaccine/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/politics/donald-trump-covid-1...
        atoav 5y ago
        I don't even have twitter and I don't live in the US. Also: the consequence of your study shouldn't be not to wear masks, but to wear masks that work (the study just shows evidence for plain cloth masks, which at least everybody on central europe stopped wearing in the second wave). Also: there are manyfold reason to do something of course. I'd be highly interested in the rational explaination of the GOP policy on all things covid tho (first the virus didn't exist and simulataneously was just like the flu for example). This might not have been the common joes opinion, but watching capa it certainly painted a clear picture

MattGaiser 5y ago

Some people just refuse authority of any kind. I know people who litter to stick it to the government as they saw a "no littering" sign.

el-salvador 5y ago
Where I live mask compliance is high. Even if it's a country were rules and laws are rarely followed. Saying this in a place were buses don't stop at bus stops, while they consistently stop in front "no bus stop" signs.
mindslight 5y ago
The thing is that actual anti-authoritarianism is quite rare. The litterbug in your example is still choosing their actions based on authority. And most anti-mask/anti-vax seem to be following authorities, but malevolent ones. From a libertarian perspective, a refrain of "freedom" about what is ultimately herd action is a performative fig leaf that burns goodwill towards the general concept. If the Covid situation were transposed onto drugs, it's as if hard drugs were legal but still discouraged, and we had an entire political movement turning themselves and their kids into junkies just to spite public health.

dilap 5y ago

Looking at human faces greatly enriches our sense of connection to the people around us. I feel much more isolated when everyone is wearing masks.

everdrive 5y ago
Is this really true in Wal-Mart, though?
- bradlys 5y ago
  The problem is - mask mandates are not just in big box stores. If that was the case, most of us wouldn’t give a shit. It’s just that it’s everywhere. And to make it worse - these mask mandates are preventing a lot of social venues from happening because very few people want to go to some of these social venues with a mask on. It’ll likely be two years since I’ve been able to go to a social dance by the time we are getting back to “normal”. Tons of events people were planning for September are now back to cancelled indefinitely. People aren’t able to commit to big events anymore because now the government is acting unpredictably and causing a lot of panic among people. Dancing is a super high risk venue. And btw - people are cancelling these events when they required all attendees to be vaccinated. So, it’s fucking over people who are 100% vaccinated and take plenty of precautions.
- aantix 5y ago
  I enjoy chatting with the cashiers. We're all just trying to get through our days and be friendly.
eej71 5y ago
I agree very much with this. Many of us rely on facial expressions - both sending and receiving - to improve communication. Its a big loss for some of us and I look forward to masks going away.
aantix 5y ago
Agree. I want to see smiles. I can't even tell if someone is laughing at my jokes. Tones are muffled. They're awful. And eventually I will just stop. My time is finite. Eventually I will just experience life how I want to, and stop living indefinitely for some other vague, "we're all in this together" goal.

jimmaswell 5y ago

It just turned every outing into a chore. I've been enjoying being able to smell the places I go to again.

peteretep 5y ago
> It just turned every outing into a chore I’ve been in countries with outdoor mask mandates almost since the start of this thing, and I don’t really understand this. How has it become a chore? Don’t you just pick up a mask from a pack or a reusable one as you leave your home? I haven’t noticed any difference in sense of smell, albeit my sense of smell is very keen. But again, what’s the chore here? It just feels like habit
- brigandish 5y ago
  > Don’t you just pick up a mask from a pack or a reusable one as you leave your home? > It just feels like habit That's as close to the meaning of chore as one could expect in a comment, and why are you extending your own experience to others who are explicitly telling you that they find it uncomfortable and a nuisance? I can't imagine that kind of thing working with any other article of clothing but masks seem to have their own special status, even though they affect breathing. It's not a serious position to take.
marcosdumay 5y ago
Not smelling some places is a large positive. I really don't miss smelling supermarkets and the stores that insist on odorizing every one of their products.
umvi 5y ago
> It just turned every outing into a chore Especially if you have young kids. Airports are an absolute nightmare now with a 2-year-old that doesn't like wearing a mask.
- system16 5y ago
  I get this, but when the alternative is spreading a virus that can have vulnerable people end up on a ventilator or worse... is it not a small price to pay? My nephew also goes nuts when he is strapped into a car seat, but sometimes you just need to deal with meltdowns and teach kids that they can't always get their way.

jsight 5y ago

Because they were afraid that they'd be here for the long term, and didn't want to tolerate that? Articles like this just confirm those fears.

linuxftw 5y ago
Don't worry, it's just two weeks to flatten the curve.
- TheHypnotist 5y ago
  Stupid meme responses like this are counter-productive. Imagine if for a period of time everyone wore masks when necessary and when the time finally came, vaccinated if they are able to. We wouldn't be having this discussion. But I'm glad the unprecedented nature of this event has given you the opportunity to regurgitate low level quips.
  - linuxftw 5y ago
    You think it's stupid, I think it's poignant. The situation we're in now was all perfectly predictable. Bad science, bad models, and bad medicine from the jump. The government will never admit it's failures.
    - TheHypnotist 5y ago
      My guess is that you couldn't be less qualified to make such an evaluation. The evolution of this pandemic has been something difficult to predict. The only certainty now is that vaccination is the key to moving on.
      - linuxftw 5y ago
        Where I live it's less than 60% vaccination for adults. Most of the 3rd world is not vaccinated. Vaccinating the entire planet was never a solution to a respiratory virus that will mutate quickly. The vaccination campaign was always going to be a failure. > My guess is that you couldn't be less qualified to make such an evaluation. I'm as qualified as the president or any governor. I'm capable of understanding facts and making a decision like any other person on the planet.

ursugardaddy 5y ago

Well, do you only wear one while grocery shopping? how much time do you spent outside of your home?

nemo44x 5y ago

If you got vaccinated you did your part. And now you're being asked to wear a mask so you lessen the chance of spreading a disease to people who didn't get vaccinated and could get very sick because of that personal choice. They made their choice and that's fine - but why should the vaccinated (who put an experimental molecule into their bodies for the greater good) now have to carry the burden for them?

KittenInABox 5y ago
You are also masking to protect children and people who have immune conditions that make vaccination less effective/prevent them from receiving vaccinations. That's millions of people who are unvaccinated through reasons outside of personal choice.
- core-utility 5y ago
  > That's millions of people who are unvaccinated through reasons outside of personal choice. Do you have a source?
- cousin_it 5y ago
  > You are also masking to protect children That's a weak reason. Only 349 people below 18 have died of corona in the US since the start of the pandemic.
  - slumdev 5y ago
    All 349 of them had serious preexisting conditions. (Not to say that each of the 349 isn't a tragedy, only that the coronavirus is unequivocally not dangerous to children without preexisting conditions.) Also - if you're considering it, please save the "long covid" histrionics. We used to call that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and there's no reason to believe "long covid" is different, scarier, or more prevalent than CFS. I have a strong suspicion that the patient's psychological suggestibility and media consumption are greater predictors of "long covid" than infection.
  - nemo44x 5y ago

hirundo 5y ago

> I still fail to see why people are so vehemently opposed to masks. For me the sense of suffocation is strong and despite dozens of hours in one I have not grown accustomed to it, or even more tolerant of it. It's bad enough that while I'm willing to mask up for an emergency, as a permanent thing I would rather accept a bit more risk of a terrible disease or death. The size of the acceptable risk for me has only grown over time. Given the number of people who insist on wearing a mask in a way that gives nobody any protection, I'm not alone in this.

briefcomment 5y ago

Breathing is noticeably harder. There's probably some low grade physiological stress when you use a mask. I don't know how people who wear them long term feel comfortable with that.

TheHypnotist 5y ago
Probably low grade physiological stress? Please cite something on this. Also, doctors? Nurses? Different types of contractors? They've been doing this a while.
- aantix 5y ago
  If I talk too fast, I experience the stress that the parent experiences. It sucks.
- briefcomment 5y ago
  You need a citation for this? I feel the urge to shift my mask every couple minutes to get some uninhibited breathing in. Without it, I start to get a headache. Why would you think restricting air flow would not cause issues for some, especially those with higher metabolism (i.e. oxygen consumption). Kids generally have higher metabolisms than adults, which made me feel particularly horrified about the mask mandates in schools. The sad thing is kids don't know any better, and trust older people who are telling them what to do, so there's probably many who feel noticeably worse and don't know why.
slumdev 5y ago
> There's probably some low grade physiological stress when you use a mask. When you inhale, your diaphragm contracts and creates a negative pressure inside your thoracic cavity (relative to the outside atmosphere's 101.3 kPa). This pressure, ordinarily, is proportional to the force with which your diaphragm contracts. Adding a layer of fabric restricts the outside air's ability to flow into your thoracic cavity and equalize the pressure. It's like having a congested nose but being unable to open your mouth to bypass the congestion. There's also the problem of carbon dioxide buildup within the mask. Your unconscious breathing effort is ordinarily controlled by the partial pressure of carbon dioxide in your blood. Carbon dioxide levels, not oxygen levels, are what make you feel "out of breath". The lungs may hold almost a liter of air, but an ordinary unconscious breath exchanges only a tiny fraction of this. That unconscious breath is so small that a large percentage of it may come from air trapped inside your mask, and your alveoli end up being faced with a much higher percentage of carbon dioxide in the air into which they are trying to exhaust carbon dioxide from your blood. Problems all around.

ch4s3 5y ago

I'm not opposed to cooperating with more masking out of hand, but I do wonder how effective it is, and what the evidence looks like. I know the support initially for just using any mask at all was predicated on the idea of spread primarily happening via droplets. I believe we now know that the virus is shed and spread by much smaller particles, and I doubt cloth masks or poorly fitted medical masks help much with that. I have a giant box of KN95s that I used in some settings, and I often feel air moving in and out around the sides, and they fit pretty well. I don't want to go through the whole exercise if it isn't actually doing anything useful. [edit] I'm not sure what people are opposed to here. I am as I said happy to comply with public health measures that work and are supported by evidence.

BiteCode_dev 5y ago

I could tell you how much blend new human relationships have become in my little bubble since the covid plan has been in place but I don't think that's the gist of it. The gist of it is the stigma. People feel marked. Dehumanized. Forced to wear the stuff by people that they don't respect or trust. COVID is as much a health crisis as it's a trust crisis: people in charge have exhausted their credibility during the last decades of misbehavior, and citizens don't want to wear a mask because the message comes from those they have nothing but disrespect for. The condescending tone of the citizens than are actually defending masking and vaccinating doesn't help either. I'm vaccinated, but if you call anti-vax names, you are part of the problem. People have been screwed over for years, covid communication has been fubar, and we are all under a lot of pressure, so be compassionate. They have more chance to join the team if you understand their grudge than if you insult them.

ASalazarMX 5y ago
There's a bit of dissonance here, since Americans frequently complain that medical care is so expensive it can bankrupt a family, yet most of those who oppose hygiene measures against COVID don't seem to be wealthy enough to take the risk. It's more like they don't even believe the virus is dangerous.
- kodyo 5y ago
  It's more that some people are willing to tolerate risk that others aren't. The virus is really dangerous if you're old, fat, and almost dead anyway.
- bradlys 5y ago
  It’s political - that’s why. The people opposing masks, vaccines, and lockdowns (to the point of non-compliance) are mostly folks who are listening to conservative talking points. And it’s nothing new to know that most of those folks who listen to such talking points typically aren’t wealthy.
  - BiteCode_dev 5y ago

bradleyjg 5y ago

The kind of masks that everyone is wearing and everyone is okay with everyone wearing are pretty close to useless. Given that context it’s pretty easy to see that this debate about visible public rituals is a proxy fight about other things, for both sides. Someone wearing a bandana loosely over his face is conforming to the social norms. That it does nothing for preventing covid 19 isn’t the point.

brigandish 5y ago

> I still fail to see why people are so vehemently opposed to masks. In my case it's driven because of a) evidence for their being effective at all is lacking[1], and b) as you rightly put it “they are annoying”. I'm not sure why I wouldn't be against that. Additionally, I live in Japan where the kind of mask-adherence those back in the west can only have wet dreams about is the norm here, and there's no evidence it's helped here either. You may have noticed the lack of crowds at the Olympics as Tokyo is under a state of emergency due to a wave of cases. Masks just don't seem to have any effect against the delta variant. I'm not surprised. [1] https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/ https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-...

tablespoon 5y ago
> I'm not sure why I wouldn't be against that. Additionally, I live in Japan where the kind of mask-adherence those back in the west can only have wet dreams about is the norm here, and there's no evidence it's helped here either. Per https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-cases.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-cases.h...: Japan: 818 all time cases per 100k capita. US: 10,793 all time cases per 100k capita. I don't think that's "no evidence it's helped here either." It's is evidence that masks didn't completely solve the problem. But mitigations aren't bad. You have to keep in mind that different places have different ideas of what "failure looks like." Many Americans seem to think failure is only when they, as an individual, are personally dying of COVID right now.
- criticaltinker 5y ago
  > But mitigations aren't bad I support wearing a mask for individuals who are symptomatic or have a positive test result. Beyond that, it's likely that mandatory nonpharmaceutical interventions such as masks and lockdowns will be bad for public health in the long run. Consider the possibility that all the masking and isolation we've done is setting us up for an extremely bad flu season in the coming year or two [1]. We see the same pattern in forest management, where by constantly preventing the small natural forest fires, we unintentionally set the stage for massive record breaking wildfires. [1] The impact of COVID-19 nonpharmaceutical interventions on the future dynamics of endemic infections https://www.pnas.org/content/117/48/30547 https://www.pnas.org/content/117/48/30547

BurningFrog 5y ago

If you think your government is a bunch of corrupt incompetent jerks, submitting to their orders can feel intolerable. Even if the hoop you're told to jump through is low and large, you still feel like a caged animal forced to do tricks. Rage Against the Machine explains the mindset in a more emotional way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWXazVhlyxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWXazVhlyxQ

umvi 5y ago

Because they are little more than theater. They are mainly a social signal at this point. If you: - fervently wear a mask it is a social signal that you are 100% on board with any/all government public health mandates. - fervently don't wear a mask it is a social signal that you are 100% NOT on board with any/all government public health mandates - wear a mask depending on if the people around you are wearing a mask it is a social signal that you don't have strong opinions either way and that you don't want to offend anyone or get called out so you just follow the crowd to blend in I can deduce whether someone thinks like me based on if they use a mask like me.

ryandrake 5y ago
Even if they literally, provably did nothing, I'd still wear one out of courtesy to others if it would make them feel more secure. We're still talking about a small piece of cloth, right? It's practically zero cost, and there are no down sides. It's about as much of a hassle as putting on underwear or wearing a seat belt. It's sad that basic courtesy, decency, and the sense of doing something (if only a shibboleth) for your community, have become politicized. Toxic Orthodox Individualism has become a religion.
- justwanttolearn 5y ago
  I felt this exact sentiment for awhile but I've changed my stance. The reason is because for a lot of them they feel secure because everyone is doing it, so this is a real social fear that they have, rather than from the virus itself. People act on groupthink very easily and if masks does not work or work minimally and people stop wearing them, more and more people will stop wearing them as well when they see that it's not a big deal. I do not wear them outside but I do wear them indoors at grocery stores or small spaces that are poorly ventilated.
- horrified 5y ago
  Then please also wear a tinfoil hat, that would make me feel more secure, too. I think it reflects the sunlight and thereby prevents global warming, that will otherwise kill us all.
- 5y ago

underseacables 5y ago

I think people are choosing this hill to die on because give an inch, take a mile. I think there’s something fundamentally wrong with a group of people feels like they can force another group to do as they are told, specifically to wear a certain item, or have a certain label. Masks have not been shown to be useful, yet there is a Cabal of people who are absolutely devoted to the idea. I think they have internalized masks as their badge of honor, and get upset that others don’t agree with them. In short, I think the push to require the wearing of masks is rooted more in personal ego than it is in actual health benefits.

AndrewBissell 5y ago

They have been shown to disrupt key aspects of human communication. Personally, I've had friends tell me how much they like that everyone is in masks because they no longer strike up conversations during random encounters, say in the grocery store. It contributes to a sense of permanent emergency which should be gone by now given that the vast majority of the at-risk population is vaccinated. At this point I don't see the purpose of attempting to stop or slow the spread of an endemic respiratory virus, that is just a fool's errand at this point. They also probably don't work, or at least not very well. People used to point to the Asian countries that hadn't had big outbreaks as evidence that population-wide mask compliance could work to prevent transmission, but that is no longer the case as they have all had big outbreaks. Even China had to halt traffic in and out of Wuhan recently.

criticaltinker 5y ago

On one hand masks are an easy way to reduce the transmission of pathogens. On the other hand there are legitimate scientific & public health concerns regarding mass enforcement of nonpharmaceutical interventions such as lockdowns, masks, etc [1]. It's really not clear that mask mandates will be a net win for society if we begin to see the predictions in [1] play out - we'll just have to see how bad the flu season is in the coming winters. [1] The impact of COVID-19 nonpharmaceutical interventions on the future dynamics of endemic infections https://www.pnas.org/content/117/48/30547 https://www.pnas.org/content/117/48/30547

tablespoon 5y ago

> I still fail to see why people are so vehemently opposed to masks. Yes, they are annoying but is it really that big of a deal? Because they want to prove that America is weak, because it cannot deal with any serious problem that requires a small personal sacrifice. Alternatively, they want to prove America is weak, because they want to prove that a bunch of partisan shit-stirrers can turn any issue into a culture-war debacle and that the marketplace of ideas doesn't work.

goatlover 5y ago

It's one thing to have to wear masks everywhere before the vaccines became widely available. That was a necessary annoyance to stem the tide, which shouldn't have been politicized. It's another thing after mandates went away for several months because in the US at least, since most adults can easily be fully vaccinated. Now it feels like a temporary annoyance is being turned into a long term one even after many of us wore masks, social distanced and got vaccinated.

silicon2401 5y ago

Do you fail to see why, or do you fail to agree? There are many people out there who would be happy to tell you their reasons before you even ask. > why is this the hill so many people are determined to die on? As someone who hates emoting facially, I love the mask norm. However it's also important to remember the popular phrase "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." This phrase is popular because it expresses the way many Americans, including myself, treasure freedom above all else, so any sacrifices of freedom should be done slowly or not at all if possible. Compulsory mask-wearing is as anti-freedom as compulsory haircuts (Chinese queue, Russian beard tax). Your argument is insincere or uninformed because it can be used to justify huge changes in society by singling out a minor facet of a larger issue, calling it a tiny hill that's not worth dying on, then moving on to another minor facet, until the whole landscape has been traversed.

tablespoon 5y ago
> However it's also important to remember the popular phrase "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." This phrase is popular because it expresses the way many Americans, including myself, treasure freedom above all else, so any sacrifices of freedom should be done slowly or not at all if possible. That's a bad quote to reason from. The key word there is actually "essential" and is left totally undefined. This also demonstrates America's Achilles' heel, because that sentiment can easily be twisted into an argument against any kind of responsibility or sacrifice. I know many non-Americans, and the pandemic has disillusioned them towards America. They used to admire it a lot, but now they've seen so many Americans use liberty-rhetoric to justify acting in stupid and selfish ways that they think much less highly of it and those so-called ideals. America was supposed to prove the value of its ideals by being better at handling the pandemic than other countries, instead it's used those ideals as a justification for its failure, which is not a good look from any angle.

pseudo0 5y ago

I work in an office with a 100% vaccination rate, and yet we've recently been instructed to wear masks at all times. Wearing a mask 8 hours a day is very uncomfortable, the benefit is likely extremely marginal at best, and the policymaking class pushing this nonsense is off partying maskless at Obama's birthday party, because they're "sophisticated" enough to make their own decisions. The whole situation is just very frustrating.

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iwintermute 5y ago
I feel like if you have to hide your face behind the mask - there's no need to be present in the office at all. Video call would actually be better.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

Masks suck, but they are necessary, I get why people would complain about them. Vaccines, on the other hand, are super easy to get, just a couple of pricks. I really don't get the people who don't do that!

RhysU 5y ago

> Of all things to be upset about, why is this the hill so many people are determined to die on? Wearing a helmet when riding in a car is likely safer, with appropriate seat belts, but we don't wear helmets and 5-point harnesses in passenger cars. To turn around your question: Why do so many people insist on turning masks into a hill? Masks are just one of many ways humanity can be marginally safer in an incredibly annoying fashion. Like wearing helmets in every passenger car.

seanp2k2 5y ago
I personally wish cars could be factory-optioned with 5points as I don’t find them uncomfortable, prefer to be held into the seat as it feels more secure for fun recreational driving, and the extra safety is nice. I’d have one in my sports car but unfortunately the factory hasn’t made it easy to fit. Doing it properly requires new racing seats and a full custom roll cage. It’s easily >$10k worth of work.

michaelt 5y ago

> I still fail to see why people are so vehemently opposed to masks. Masks are a proxy, standing in for all the other ways non-pharmaceutical interventions are disrupting our lives. After all, it'd be absurd for me to wear a mask while sitting shoulder-to-shoulder with strangers in a packed theatre. A world in which I must wear a mask is a world in which I must not go to the theatre. It's understandable that people are salty about the loss of concerts and music festivals and exercise classes and knitting groups and nightclubs and mass transit and dating and fine dining and protests and tourism and visiting friends and gyms and casual sex and theatre and nonessential flights and the entire college experience.

grillvogel 5y ago

im opposed because as a parent of young kids i feel the risks to them from covid are much lower than the risks to their mental health growing up in this dystopian mask world. children need to see other human faces as part of their normal development, mandatory masks in schools seems cruel to me. it makes me really sad when i see parents making their kids wear masks at the beach and other pointless displays, or even worse the parent with no mask but forcing their kids to wear them. how are these kids going to turn out in 20 years?

teeray 5y ago

People want 2019 normal back. Masks are incompatible with that, no matter how much some people like them.

kcplate 5y ago

Because (at least in the US) leaders and experts waffled on the efficacy and necessity and in some bizzaro world logic decided to make masking a political virtue which polluted all hope of it being taken seriously by many as a scientifically feasible method for combating the pandemic.